.224 Valkyrie

Bbracken667 · Jul 24, 2024

Namekagon said:
Is that data for something like a 60gr Vmax? Wondering about bearing surface differences. If that is for the VMax, I would think it would be good data to use cause those things have very long bearing surfaces. I don't have a Hornady manual.

That is for the 60 grain max.
This is from the Hornady free app. You purchase the data with a one time charge of like $2 for each cartridge. It is a great way to go and you are not burdened with a bunch of data you don’t need.
The app includes rifle and pistol data as well as databases of bullets. I was a bit surprised to not see the 62 grain data. It is quite up to date with 6.5 cm bullet data.

DacianMH · Jul 24, 2024

Yeah it’s misleading. The ELD-VT has a long bearing surface and emulates the 80gr ELD-M. Out of a 18” the 80gr ELD-M is moving around that speed too. I’m sure there are better powders that will propel it faster but it really shot best in that charge weight. I just recently got the 16” barrel so I haven’t had alot of time to develop but it’s a 1:6t and fairly new. Never know, it might speed up or I’ll try StaBall 6.5 next as that’s the powder I use in the 224 Valkyrie almost exclusively and I’m getting roughly 2750ish with a 85.5gr Berger and 88gr ELD-M and 77gr LRX.

lash · Jul 24, 2024

Bbracken667 said:
From the Hornady app for 60 gram bullet.

I think that you meant 3.89 grams (g) or 60 grains (gr).

Bbracken667 · Jul 24, 2024

lash said:
I think that you meant 3.89 grams (g) or 60 grains (gr).

Sorry, stupid auto correct. It also changed vmax to just max and just now to vax in this post, but I caught it this time LOL
I hate autocorrect.

lash · Jul 24, 2024

Bbracken667 said:
Sorry, stupid auto correct. It also changed vmax to just max and just now to vax in this post, but I caught it this time LOL
I hate autocorrect.

It gets me all the time.

357Max · Jul 24, 2024

Namekagon said:
Can anybody share a starting point for 62 ELD-VT's in a semi-auto Valkyrie? I'm open to powder suggestions. Varget, CFE 223, etc.

All my loads tested with below powders were with Hornady brass & GM205AR primers.

I built the bullet (62 eldm-vt) in Gordon's. to model the loads

Lever was speed king and tied for best accuracy start at 28.3 if you can load long and your gas/buffer is well sorted.
H4895 was second for speed & 2nd for accuracy Start at 26.0
XBR8208 was 3rd for speed and tied for best accuracy Start at 25.7
Staball Match was just a smidge slower than XBR & worst for accuracy (still moa). Start at 27.5

18" + 1" RLG 7 twist AR all loads were 2.290 coal in PRI mags

Work up all loads. These are long bullets for weight especially compaired to a 60 Vmax flat base.

With Lever I crossed the 3100 mark @29.0gr & stopped at 3176

Namekagon · Jul 24, 2024

357Max said:
All my loads tested with below powders were with Hornady brass & GM205AR primers.

I built the bullet (62 eldm-vt) in Gordon's. to model the loads

Lever was speed king and tied for best accuracy start at 28.3 if you can load long and your gas/buffer is well sorted.
H4895 was second for speed & 2nd for accuracy Start at 26.0
XBR8208 was 3rd for speed and tied for best accuracy Start at 25.7
Staball Match was just a smidge slower than XBR & worst for accuracy (still moa). Start at 27.5

18" + 1" RLG 7 twist AR all loads were 2.290 coal in PRI mags

Work up all loads. These are long bullets for weight especially compaired to a 60 Vmax flat base.

With Lever I crossed the 3100 mark @29.0gr & stopped at 3176

View attachment 8465549

Excellent, that is very helpful. Thank you!

JSDS · Jul 24, 2024

DacianMH said:
Yeah it’s misleading. The ELD-VT has a long bearing surface and emulates the 80gr ELD-M. Out of a 18” the 80gr ELD-M is moving around that speed too. I’m sure there are better powders that will propel it faster but it really shot best in that charge weight. I just recently got the 16” barrel so I haven’t had alot of time to develop but it’s a 1:6t and fairly new. Never know, it might speed up or I’ll try StaBall 6.5 next as that’s the powder I use in the 224 Valkyrie almost exclusively and I’m getting roughly 2750ish with a 85.5gr Berger and 88gr ELD-M and 77gr LRX.

What's your SB6.5 load? Asking for a friend.

TreyMeTrey · Jul 24, 2024

Starting load for 224 Valkyrie 27.1 grains of Leverevolution for 62gr . ..29.0 is as high as I've went.at 3222 fps.

Bbracken667 · Jul 25, 2024

357Max said:
All my loads tested with below powders were with Hornady brass & GM205AR primers.

I built the bullet (62 eldm-vt) in Gordon's. to model the loads

Lever was speed king and tied for best accuracy start at 28.3 if you can load long and your gas/buffer is well sorted.
H4895 was second for speed & 2nd for accuracy Start at 26.0
XBR8208 was 3rd for speed and tied for best accuracy Start at 25.7
Staball Match was just a smidge slower than XBR & worst for accuracy (still moa). Start at 27.5

18" + 1" RLG 7 twist AR all loads were 2.290 coal in PRI mags

Work up all loads. These are long bullets for weight especially compaired to a 60 Vmax flat base.

With Lever I crossed the 3100 mark @29.0gr & stopped at 3176

View attachment 8465549

Out of curiosity, how close was Gordon’s to the actual?

357Max · Jul 25, 2024

Bbracken667 said:
Out of curiosity, how close was Gordon’s to the actual?

Predicted speeds were +30 avg for H4895 & XBR. Lever in Gordon's has never been great, predicted speeds were +60. Gordon's does not have Staball Match, but I've found Accurate 2520 to be very close grain for grain with both pressure signs and speed.

Consider with the above I did not add the gas system option which would have reduced the predicted vel some. I just use Gordon's as a safety/sanity check. Helps cut a few of the bottom end starting loads.

Gordon's is better with certain powders. RL 15.5 for example in both 6.5 Creedmoor & 308 bolt guns, predictions within 10 fps.

I write the Gordon predictions down in my loading book. At the range I then just use it as an added point of information. With Lever for example it always predicts high. I've worked loads above Gordon's max with Lever since the speed in reality is about 3 ladder steps lower than predicted. This is an over simplification, but having an extra data point has been helpful to me.

Bbracken667 · Jul 25, 2024

357Max said:
Predicted speeds were +30 avg for H4895 & XBR. Lever in Gordon's has never been great, predicted speeds were +60. Gordon's does not have Staball Match, but I've found Accurate 2520 to be very close grain for grain with both pressure signs and speed.

Consider with the above I did not add the gas system option which would have reduced the predicted vel some. I just use Gordon's as a safety/sanity check. Helps cut a few of the bottom end starting loads.

Gordon's is better with certain powders. RL 15.5 for example in both 6.5 Creedmoor & 308 bolt guns, predictions within 10 fps.

I write the Gordon predictions down in my loading book. At the range I then just use it as an added point of information. With Lever for example it always predicts high. I've worked loads above Gordon's max with Lever since the speed in reality is about 3 ladder steps lower than predicted. This is an over simplification, but having an extra data point has been helpful to me.

What about accuracy? Gordon’s makes an accuracy prediction, of sorts.

Well said. I am finding Gordon’s to be extremely interesting. My biggest issue is I coat my bullets with hBn and struggling with how to accurately represent that.
Oh, and my primary powder (6.5 cm) is Vihta 555 and 540. Seems to be decent historical data available for those. I used to run IMR 4350 but eventually went with the VV because of my experience with other cartridges.

JSDS · Jul 27, 2024

I have a 224 Valkyrie AR. 24" Krieger barrel, rifle-length gas system. Nothing too fancy , but a functional 1K yard shooter. I've been using the Berger 85.5-grain hybrid bullet with mixed results. I've used 6.5CM, CFE-223, H4895, Lil Gun and a few others.

Next up, switching back to Hornady 88 gr ELD. My experience is the Berger hybrid is finicky about seating depth.

357Max · Jul 27, 2024

Bbracken667 said:
What about accuracy? Gordon’s makes an accuracy prediction, of sorts.

Well said. I am finding Gordon’s to be extremely interesting. My biggest issue is I coat my bullets with hBn and struggling with how to accurately represent that.
Oh, and my primary powder (6.5 cm) is Vihta 555 and 540. Seems to be decent historical data available for those. I used to run IMR 4350 but eventually went with the VV because of my experience with other cartridges.

You can adjust for friction in Gordon's as well as start pressure. To do it right you'd have to get a baseline without the HBN to know how close you are with all the other variables. Then tune just friction values to account for differences.

Below is a screen shot on expert mode for my current project. 6.5 Creedmoor gas gun 18" with + 2" rifle gas suppressed. Lot of info on there, but Gordon's has been within 10fps for RL 15.5 in the Creed (lighter bullets). On this screen I've got the gas system included. You can see on the right hand side my curser is showing pressure at the port & you can see the pressure dip at the port. Predicted velocity is about 10fps less with gas system accounted for. Not a big difference on this one since there's only a couple inches of barrel past that port LOL.

To add the gas system is not intuitive. Were my curser is shown on the left below, click gas system leakage, then select round hole. You'll get an error message. Right click the round hole and it will open an option (shown below) to allow input of port size and length. Ports can be measured, but if you know your running suppressed with an adj gas block port size should be reduced to account.

357Max · Jul 27, 2024

JSDS said:
I have a 224 Valkyrie AR. 24" Krieger barrel, rifle-length gas system. Nothing too fancy , but a functional 1K yard shooter. I've been using the Berger 85.5-grain hybrid bullet with mixed results. I've used 6.5CM, CFE-223, H4895, Lil Gun and a few others.

Next up, switching back to Hornady 88 gr ELD. My experience is the Berger hybrid is finicky about seating depth.

Those 85.5's have sucked in every gas gun I've tried them in.

In my Valkyrie 75 & 80 eldm, 85 RDF, & 85.5 Bergers have been terrible. Also tried 78gr cutting edge solids & they shot like dog shit.

My go too's are 77 RDF, 80.5 Berger, 73 eldm, 62 eldm-vt, & 88 eldm.

Bbracken667 · Jul 27, 2024

357Max said:
You can adjust for friction in Gordon's as well as start pressure. To do it right you'd have to get a baseline without the HBN to know how close you are with all the other variables. Then tune just friction values to account for differences.

Below is a screen shot on expert mode for my current project. 6.5 Creedmoor gas gun 18" with + 2" rifle gas suppressed. Lot of info on there, but Gordon's has been within 10fps for RL 15.5 in the Creed (lighter bullets). On this screen I've got the gas system included. You can see on the right hand side my curser is showing pressure at the port & you can see the pressure dip at the port. Predicted velocity is about 10fps less with gas system accounted for. Not a big difference on this one since there's only a couple inches of barrel past that port LOL.

View attachment 8467456

To add the gas system is not intuitive. Were my curser is shown on the left below, click gas system leakage, then select round hole. You'll get an error message. Right click the round hole and it will open an option (shown below) to allow input of port size and length. Ports can be measured, but if you know your running suppressed with an adj gas block port size should be reduced to account.

View attachment 8467457

Super! Thanks! I have been using initial pressure but missed the friction input. That, I think, will be my final key.
Thanks again!
Is the friction value “bullet resistance”?
NM I found the answer on the GRT site. It is as I surmised.
Thanks again!

357Max · Jul 27, 2024

Bbracken667 said:
Super! Thanks! I have been using initial pressure but missed the friction input. That, I think, will be my final key.
Thanks again!
Is the friction value “bullet resistance”?

On my cell now will check when I get home. There are several pissible friction related inputs that can be tweaked going off memory. Initial start pressure, sebert factor, and bore or rifling bore area are a few.

AZIROC · Aug 4, 2024

Havent posted here in a while. Mostly life and AZ summers mean I won't be shooting. since summer is almost over'ish I've been slowly refilling my ammo I've shot and it brings me my 224 Valkyrie. Let me start off by saying I'm still a HUGE fan of this round. Working up loads for it was a huge pain and very discouraging but once I found them, I can't stop shooting it.

That being said, only round I really shoot is my 88 eld / varget load. I've shot it out to 1400 yards and it's a laser. My 80 elds I've only shot out to 800 so idk how they r past 1k. Which brings me to my next question. Since I shot alot of longer range for my 223 wylde (7-800 yards), I have a good amount of 77 smk's. Has anyone tried this round and if so, how did it do and what powder did you use. I'd prefer to keep it at varget but the quick Google search I've done, it seems R17 is the better choice for more FPS. Other question is, should I even bother going to 77 smk when I have a solid 80 eld load?

Bbracken667 · Aug 4, 2024

AZIROC said:
Havent posted here in a while. Mostly life and AZ summers mean I won't be shooting. since summer is almost over'ish I've been slowly refilling my ammo I've shot and it brings me my 224 Valkyrie. Let me start off by saying I'm still a HUGE fan of this round. Working up loads for it was a huge pain and very discouraging but once I found them, I can't stop shooting it.

That being said, only round I really shoot is my 88 eld / varget load. I've shot it out to 1400 yards and it's a laser. My 80 elds I've only shot out to 800 so idk how they r past 1k. Which brings me to my next question. Since I shot alot of longer range for my 223 wylde (7-800 yards), I have a good amount of 77 smk's. Has anyone tried this round and if so, how did it do and what powder did you use. I'd prefer to keep it at varget but the quick Google search I've done, it seems R17 is the better choice for more FPS. Other question is, should I even bother going to 77 smk when I have a solid 80 eld load?

Personally, if you are sold on the 88’s, I think you should stick with those.

Simonsza1 · Aug 4, 2024

I picked up 500 77smk just to try in the bolt gun Valkyrie but have never got around to it. Maybe I’ll play with them soon and report back if there anything special. My current load is also the 88eldm. I agree with you though my 88 load is a lazer beam and recoil like a rimfire. I love shooting this “wife’s” rifle.

AZIROC · Aug 4, 2024

That's kind of where I was at, but figured I'd ask incase I'm missing something with the lighter bullets.

Thanks!

Simonsza1 · Aug 5, 2024

Powder valley has a sale on sierra. 77 and 90 matchkings in stock with free shipping today only.

LRRPF52 · Aug 11, 2024

What are you guys seeing accuracy/precision-wise from gas guns with the Federal 75gr?

Also, is the Federal brass life the same in this cartridge as most others? (short brass life, lose primer pockets quickly)

Bbracken667 · Aug 11, 2024

LRRPF52 said:
What are you guys seeing accuracy/precision-wise from gas guns with the Federal 75gr?

Also, is the Federal brass life the same in this cartridge as most others? (short brass life, lose primer pockets quickly)

Haven’t used much of the federal brass, but the Hornady I was getting 10-12 reloads. If you are getting loose primer pockets after just a few firings you should consider dropping the charge down a tad.

357Max · Aug 11, 2024

LRRPF52 said:
What are you guys seeing accuracy/precision-wise from gas guns with the Federal 75gr?

Also, is the Federal brass life the same in this cartridge as most others? (short brass life, lose primer pockets quickly)

Yes Federal looses pockets quicker.

Starline is pretty good. I still only get 4 - 5, but I'm 2900 -2920 with 80.5 Berger & 77 RDF & Lever. Accuracy & SD's are excellent.

18" barrel RL + 1" gas

LRRPF52 · Aug 11, 2024

Seems like the case should be blown forward a bit to get more propellant, but then I wonder how much they’re relying on neck length for consistency.

Main reason I’m asking is because I bought a Six8 receiver set and Magpul Six8 PMAGs to convert to Grendel, and was thinking it might be fun to do a side-by-side with another cartridge and Grendel from the same barrel lengths out to 1k.

AZIROC · Aug 12, 2024

Federal inwas losing primer pockets pretty quick. 2-4 reloads. Hornady I would get about 4-6ish. Never tried starling.

I do have a primer pocket reforming tool and that helps alot and I can usually get 8-9 reloads b4 the neck goes. But that's on a pretty hot 88 eld / varget load.

Simonsza1 · Aug 12, 2024

Ya the heat of the load has a major effect on pockets as we all know. The slower noad for me seems more accurate always and the brass last longer. Win win.

Bbracken667 · Aug 12, 2024

Simonsza1 said:
Ya the heat of the load has a major effect on pockets as we all know. The slower noad for me seems more accurate always and the brass last longer. Win win.

Exactly. In the world of reloading/shooting “no pain, no gain,” is wrong LOL. I will take “no pain, no pain” every day.

AZIROC · Aug 12, 2024

I have the exact opposite happen. Anything under pressured is horrible accuracy. Im an easy 1 grain over book max.

Bbracken667 · Aug 12, 2024

AZIROC said:
I have the exact opposite happen. Anything under pressured is horrible accuracy. Im an easy 1 grain over book max.

If you shoot sufficient numbers at a target, at a range, you wind up with a distribution pattern, not unlike this. Pick any 3 or any 5 shots, they are logical strikes based on small sampling.
I will stop at this point before there is a violent revolt. LoL

Simonsza1 · Sep 4, 2024

Got a chance to test the 77 sierras. They are the tipped match kings. There incredible! So good I’m selling my 88 if anyone wants them. .020 off with 27.5 cfe.223 at 3,049fps and I put ten rounds in a nickel without even trying hard. Then on Sunday I printed a 5 shot group from the prone at 712yds that was the size of the bottom of a red bull can on a piece of steel.

Bbracken667 · Sep 4, 2024

Simonsza1 said:
Got a chance to test the 77 sierras. They are the tipped match kings. There incredible! So good I’m selling my 88 if anyone wants them. .020 off with 27.5 cfe.223 at 3,049fps and I put ten rounds in a nickel without even trying hard. Then on Sunday I printed a 5 shot group from the prone at 712yds that was the size of the bottom of a red bull can on a piece of steel. View attachment 8494526

Very good!

AZgeek · Sep 4, 2024

AZIROC said:
Havent posted here in a while. Mostly life and AZ summers mean I won't be shooting. since summer is almost over'ish I've been slowly refilling my ammo I've shot and it brings me my 224 Valkyrie. Let me start off by saying I'm still a HUGE fan of this round. Working up loads for it was a huge pain and very discouraging but once I found them, I can't stop shooting it.

That being said, only round I really shoot is my 88 eld / varget load. I've shot it out to 1400 yards and it's a laser. My 80 elds I've only shot out to 800 so idk how they r past 1k. Which brings me to my next question. Since I shot alot of longer range for my 223 wylde (7-800 yards), I have a good amount of 77 smk's. Has anyone tried this round and if so, how did it do and what powder did you use. I'd prefer to keep it at varget but the quick Google search I've done, it seems R17 is the better choice for more FPS. Other question is, should I even bother going to 77 smk when I have a solid 80 eld load?

Please. Let summer be over in a few weeks!

Simonsza1 · Sep 5, 2024

Let hunting season begin is all I hear

AZIROC · Sep 27, 2024

AZgeek said:
Please. Let summer be over in a few weeks!

Almost oct and still 110+ ugh.

Bbracken667 · Sep 27, 2024

AZIROC said:
Almost oct and still 110+ ugh.

Wow!! Here in Dallas we are loving our 80ish daily highs. We didn’t hit 110 even in the heat of summer.

Simonsza1 · Sep 27, 2024

WV and have had the ac off windows open now for 6 weeks. Do live on top of a mountain though.

Wormydog1724 · Sep 30, 2024

I've had my 22" Bison Fulcrum barreled upper together for awhile but haven't gotten much time behind it until this weekend.

Previously I was shooting Sierra 55gr GameKings from a 20" POF 1:7 twist at 3400fps for coyotes with thermal. It worked well but the groups were never very good to me.

The Bison blows the 55gr SGK's apart at 3450fps with its 1:6.5 twist. I tried 77gr SMK and they shot well but I really wanted to save those projectiles for AR/DMR/SPR type matches.

I found I had bought 500x Hornady 68gr BTHP a few years ago and forgot about them. So this weekend I picked an eeny meeny miny moe charge of 26.5gr of CFE223, not quiet book max but close.

I did two 5-shot groups with my day scope and one was .8" and the other 1". Good enough. Velocity was 2950fps~ from the 22" Bison Fulcrum barrel at 1:6.5 twist.

Put the thermal on last night and got it zeroed at 100y but ran out of time to set my 200y and 300y zeros. I'll do that later this week.

Now it's just seeing how the 68gr BTHP does on coyotes. The accuracy and confidence improvement should help on it's own though.

AZIROC · Oct 4, 2024

Bbracken667 said:
Wow!! Here in Dallas we are loving our 80ish daily highs. We didn’t hit 110 even in the heat of summer.

Well.. it was 109 today *even though my truck said 111* still wishing to make it out to the range.

AZgeek · Oct 4, 2024

This fucking summer/fall heat in AZ is why its always in the back of my mind that i'm shooting at or slightly over max charge of cfe223 in an AR15. 27.0 gr with the Berger 80gr Fullbore is just too good to reduce!

45-90 · Oct 4, 2024

It's 62° and cloudy and morning rain, a slight cold wind...winters coming. Tomorrow is opening day for deer season.
I use R l7 in 75 to 95 gr loads in 224 Valkyrie, it runs 3000 to 2710 fps with those bullets, 24" AR 15 with 6.5 twist.
Was going to try MR 2000 but will have to wait, til after hunting season, as I was working on loads for a new 450 bushmaster barrel after discarding the old one, and the 510 whisper subs and supers.

AZgeek · Oct 4, 2024

45-90 said:
It's 62° and cloudy and morning rain, a slight cold wind...winters coming. Tomorrow is opening day for deer season.
I use R l7 in 75 to 95 gr loads in 224 Valkyrie, it runs 3000 to 2710 fps with those bullets, 24" AR 15 with 6.5 twist.
Was going to try MR 2000 but will have to wait, til after hunting season, as I was working on loads for a new 450 bushmaster barrel after discarding the old one, and the 510 whisper subs and supers.

If only to feel cold again. So jealous.

45-90 · Oct 5, 2024

AZgeek said:
If only to feel cold again. So jealous.

It's down to 43° at night so the furnace kicks on already....need to move north.

AZgeek · Nov 6, 2024

Found about 550 old 75gr Amax bullets that I've had laying around forever. Going to run them through the Valkyrie to use them up. How might they compared to the Berger 80.5 Freebore in terms of accuracy?

ma smith · Nov 6, 2024

AZgeek said:
Found about 550 old 75gr Amax bullets that I've had laying around forever. Going to run them through the Valkyrie to use them up. How might they compared to the Berger 80.5 Freebore in terms of accuracy?

Hornady ELD M vs A MAX ?

Can anyone tell me the difference between the Hornady 168 ELD M and the 168 A MAX . I thought the A MAX's were being replaced with the ELD M's , but I see a few online stores are selling both. The A's are a bit more $$

www.snipershide.com

Simonsza1 · Nov 6, 2024

I’ve shot plenty of the 75eldm and they were really good and fast. Would think the amax would be great as well

JSDS · Nov 6, 2024

357Max said:
Those 85.5's have sucked in every gas gun I've tried them in.

In my Valkyrie 75 & 80 eldm, 85 RDF, & 85.5 Bergers have been terrible. Also tried 78gr cutting edge solids & they shot like dog shit.

My go too's are 77 RDF, 80.5 Berger, 73 eldm, 62 eldm-vt, & 88 eldm.

Good info - thanks. Yeah, I got a big box of 85.5 Bergers - might become a nice door stop. I've shot the 88 ELD box ammo to 1K yards reliably & repeatable. My local rifle range closed in March, so I haven't done any reloading with the 88's yet. I need to find a range first. I'll be heading out to Boise ID for Thanksgiving - I'll take the Valkyrie rifle with me; easy for friends to shoot.

opeagle · Nov 9, 2024

I could not get the 88’s to shoot, but I know others did. I wanted to try the 85.5’s but never found any when I was playing with the Valkyrie. I may have to look for some again.

JSDS · Nov 12, 2024

The Berger hybrid is length-sensitive - too finicky for my gas gun.

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