Leveling my scopes

rustyinbend

rustyinbend

GySgt USMC 1976-1992
Full Member
Minuteman
    • Dec 9, 2018
    3,226
    3,549
    Bend, Oregon
    #1
    I just don't get what's up with all the "tools" to do this. Here's my technique that has worked for literally years, and all you need is a carpentry level, a bubble level, and a pencil.
    1. Put your rifle in a gun vise and position with a wall several feet behind the butt
    2. Use the pencil and carpenter's level to draw a vertical line on the wall
      • If you're doing this in the kitchen or living room ... ask permission first :)
    3. Use the bubble level to level the rifle in the vise ... mount the scope rings or base and tighten to spec
    4. Loosely mount the scope on the rifle
    5. Point a very bright flashlight through the scope from front to rear - projecting your scope reticle onto the wall behind the butt stock
    6. Line up the vertical reticle line of the scope with the vertical line you penciled on the wall
    7. Gradually tighten everything down, making sure the rifle stays level and the flashlight reticle projection on the wall stays aligned and vertical
    Declare victory and go drink a beer. If you keep the rifle horizontally level, and your pencil line is vertically level, and you keep the reticle and wall lines aligned during ring tightening ... this is fool-proof.

    A great guy shared this with me years ago, and it works perfectly every time. The pencil line has been on my wall for years.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: tacoman69, longrange772, simonp and 2 others
    #3
    1728667420609.jpeg
     
    • Haha
    Reactions: 45-90, spife7980, FuhQ and 1 other person
    #4
    You can literally use a spare 0 MOA base, and a set of Fix-It-Sticks levels and dead-nuts level your scope. It's what I do. First I mount the rings on the rifle, to determine spacing. Then I put the scope in them and guesstimate the level and tighten the rings to 10 in-lbs. Remove the scope with rings attached, place them on a spare 0MOA base, torque to 55 in-lbs. Then loosen the scope caps and level the scope with the base level and make them match. Remove the spare 0MOA base, then go mount the scope on the rifle and tighten the base clamp screws... That simple. No special tools, nothing electronic, takes 10 minutes tops if you take your time. All you need is a flat surface and a flashlight and a couple levels.
     
    #5
    The only thing I’ll say is this. If you level the reticle on the rifle you have two things you have to keep in the same plane, the rifle and the reticle. If I mount my scope off the gun using my badger dead level I only have to worry about the reticle cause once the base is level it’s not moving.

    It’s just easier off the gun but it’s also not wrong to do it on the gun, IMHO though you increase your adds of introducing cant when doing it in the rifle, unless the cant is intentional.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: FuhQ
    #6
    _Windrider_ said:
    The only thing I’ll say is this. If you level the reticle on the rifle you have two things you have to keep in the same plane, the rifle and the reticle. If I mount my scope off the gun using my badger dead level I only have to worry about the reticle cause once the base is level it’s not moving.

    It’s just easier off the gun but it’s also not wrong to do it on the gun, IMHO though you increase your adds of introducing cant when doing it in the rifle, unless the cant is intentional.
    Click to expand...
    Trying to understand this. In my technique, the rifle is level in the vice with the scope mount affixed to the rifle. The only thing that moves, is the scope, and that's just to rotate it to align with the vertical line on the wall. I'm just not sure how to make sure the base is level, without ensuring the rifle is level. What am I missing?
     
    #8
    rustyinbend said:
    Trying to understand this. In my technique, the rifle is level in the vice with the scope mount affixed to the rifle. The only thing that moves, is the scope, and that's just to rotate it to align with the vertical line on the wall. I'm just not sure how to make sure the base is level, without ensuring the rifle is level. What am I missing?
    Click to expand...
    So if u r doing it in a vice it’s a non issue. Many people do it in a table using the bipod and rear bag to level the rifle then try to level the scope and torque the rings without moving either.

    For me, and I’m biased cause I’ve always done it off the rifle, I just find it easier to use a jig like the badger dead level. Then I don’t have to worry about leveling the rifle and hoping the rail or whatever surface I’m using to put a levels on is actually flat. The dead level has a built in very accurate bubble level. Once it’s level you are good. Then all you need is a plumb bob for the reticle and your done. There are no machining tolerances throwing off the process.
     
    #9
    I do it with the scope mounted to the rifle. That's because of the most important part of the process:

    Once the reticle is perfectly level, you've gotta ensure that whatever bubble level you'll be using when shooting gets installed/leveled at this time. Reticle/bubble level relationship is most important, gun is somewhat irrelevant (my ocd makes me level everything though). I've found that when behind the gun (shooting position), the angle you view the level can sometimes make it look like the bubble isn't centered. I like to be able to tweek the bubble level slightly so that it appears perfectly level when behind the gun.
     
    #10
    3rdfocal said:
    I do it with the scope mounted to the rifle. That's because of the most important part of the process:

    Once the reticle is perfectly level, you've gotta ensure that whatever bubble level you'll be using when shooting gets installed/leveled at this time. Reticle/bubble level relationship is most important, gun is somewhat irrelevant (my ocd makes me level everything though). I've found that when behind the gun (shooting position), the angle you view the level can sometimes make it look like the bubble isn't centered. I like to be able to tweek the bubble level slightly so that it appears perfectly level when behind the gun.
    Click to expand...
    Bubble levels are a crutch but can be useful when the terrain isn’t exactly flat.

    If you are using the type of bubble level that is attached to the scope or the scope mount you either have to do it my way which is off the gun and level the reticle then level and secure the level? Otherwise if you do it while the gun is secured in a vice you now have to keep the gun reticle and bubble level all in the same plane at all times. Lots of points of failure. If you are using a bubble level that mounts to the top of a pic rail well it should be level no matter what and as long as you mounted your scope properly they will match.
     
    #11
    _Windrider_ said:
    Bubble levels are a crutch but can be useful when the terrain isn’t exactly flat.

    If you are using the type of bubble level that is attached to the scope or the scope mount you either have to do it my way which is off the gun and level the reticle then level and secure the level? Otherwise if you do it while the gun is secured in a vice you now have to keep the gun reticle and bubble level all in the same plane at all times. Lots of points of failure. If you are using a bubble level that mounts to the top of a pic rail well it should be level no matter what and as long as you mounted your scope properly they will match.
    Click to expand...
    No... You can do it all on the gun very easily.

    And levels aren't a crutch. They're pretty important if you're gonna hold-over at distance. If you're shooting from a flat surface and have a level horizon then it may not be that important.
     
    #16
    TheOE800 said:
    Oh I like this... didn’t know I needed it https://www.arrowproductsusa.com/products/premium-scope-mount-tool
    Click to expand...
    Problem is the same as any other level…particularly spirit levels…how do you know they’re accurate?

    If it’s not traceable to NIST (for big $$), IMO the best you can do is pick a level as your bench standard and go for it.

    Even applies to those using a plumb bob…once the scope is mounted you then need to level the rifle (or have it cocked to the degree you chose…particularly for shooting off hand) to see if the reticle lines up. Same/same…pick a level and go for it. It may not be accurate in absolute terms but WTF…we aren’t trying to align proton beams in a collider.

    Cheers
     
    • Like
    • Sad
    Reactions: Slides, crosseyedshooter and TheOE800
    #17
    Rob01 said:
    Because you don't but if you have $325 to waste. LOL
    Click to expand...
    stanley_white said:
    I got one of these, put a picatinny level on it, and I level my scopes on my tripod ball head.


    -Stan
    Click to expand...
    I use a SAC Final Scope Level in my tripod and I throw my gamechanger on the bottom shelf for stability. I do most of my leveling with it but I’m not totally happy with the ball joint/tie rod adjustment situation and rail space.

    I’ve got a Badger Dead Level as well which has its own compromises.

    I haven’t tried the flashlight method successfully.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: stanley_white
    #18
    TheOE800 said:
    I use a SAC Final Scope Level in my tripod and I throw my gamechanger on the bottom shelf for stability. I do most of my leveling with it but I’m not totally happy with the ball joint/tie rod adjustment situation and rail space.

    I’ve got a Badger Dead Level as well which has its own compromises.

    I haven’t tried the flashlight method successfully.
    Click to expand...

    Ever just open your bipod and set the rifle on the table? Plenty stable and costs nothing. Level the rifle then put scope in rings and level scope. Done.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Schütze, Mike Casselton and DM1975
    #19
    Rob01 said:
    Ever just open your bipod and set the rifle on the table? Plenty stable and costs nothing. Level the rifle then put scope in rings and level scope. Done.
    Click to expand...
    I admire your dedication, but these guys will never understand that they have a perfect working “level system” in their inner ears.

    Instead they are trusting some $5 bubble level.

    If one uses a tool, a string with a weight is all that’s needed.
     
    • Love
    Reactions: 1911hombre
    #20
    Schütze said:
    I admire your dedication, but these guys will never understand that they have a perfect working “level system” in their inner ears.

    Instead they are trusting some $5 bubble level.

    If one uses a tool, a string with a weight is all that’s needed.
    Click to expand...
    I did sort of a test of this inadvertently yesterday. I ran a tall target test on one of my rifles. I used a 3’ carpenter level on the target and then lined up the reticle to the target. My scope level showed level and I did the test and the scope tracked perfectly true. I then shot at 200 yards on some steel I had hung on t posts. I had the rifle where I perceived it to be level and checked my scope level and was way off. What I came to realize that even though I was not using the t posts as a guide I inadvertently was associating level with it. The t posts were about 5° off from being straight up and down.

    I’m sure that if I were shooting on a range with perfectly level ground and berms that this wouldn’t have been so much of an issue, but my range is not perfectly level. I think that what we see down range affects our perception of what is truly level, and personally I don’t always shoot nice level manicured ranges all the time. For me, I’ll stick to using a good bubble level.

    I’m not trying to change your mind or argue, simply offering a different perspective. And I realize we aren’t talking scope levels, but it still translates I think. I also think a plumb line is a good way to level a scope as well.
     
    #22
    Not asking in a sarcastic asshole way. Asking because I’m genuinely curious.

    How do you ensure the rifle is level in the vise? Chassis with a good “square” flats? Guess it’s important that the vise is pretty damn level?

    OCD talking.. my bad.
     
    #23
    I just use my cell phone and a levelling app. Accurate to within a tenth of a degree. Plenty fine for my NX8 on an SBR. Take it out of the case, true it to the rail, then put the scope in the rings and the phone on the top turret and true it to what the rail is at and bolt it down with the phone on the turret to monitor for change, should it occur.
     
    #26
    carbonbased said:
    Totally agree and I was riffing on something to hold the gun for other stuff, sorta responding to @LuvDog et al.

    For scope mounting, for me, a tripod with an Arca or pic clamp is tits ahoy!

    I think I just made a new saying up.

    No, of course not, everything’s already been done lol gdamnit
    m.imdb.com

    Tits Ahoy (Video 2004) ⭐ 5.2 | Adult

    2h 11m
    m.imdb.com m.imdb.com
    Click to expand...

    smoothy8500 said:
    Well, here is his "test" of a level scope and severely canted rifle at 1,000 yards.....yeah, no significant difference in impact_ so who cares if the rifle is perfectly level. All that matters is the reticle level/plumb.
    Click to expand...


    I'm curious at what distance does a scope that isn't perfectly plumb with gravity come in to play? I'm not talking about ridiculously out of plumb, more so you set the scope in the rings, use the old eyeball to say yeah that crosshair is pretty straight up and down, lock it down and shoot.

    Couple hundred yards? Normal hunting distance? How far off would you be doing long range precision?

    And I'm not saying anyone is wrong, I'm genuinely asking when a not perfectly plumb scope comes in to play.
     
    #27
    nick112288 said:
    I'm curious at what distance does a scope that isn't perfectly plumb with gravity come in to play? I'm not talking about ridiculously out of plumb, more so you set the scope in the rings, use the old eyeball to say yeah that crosshair is pretty straight up and down, lock it down and shoot.

    Couple hundred yards? Normal hunting distance? How far off would you be doing long range precision?

    And I'm not saying anyone is wrong, I'm genuinely asking when a not perfectly plumb scope comes in to play.
    Click to expand...
    Acrobat_zb5ihmqYTD.png
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Schütze
    #29
    _Windrider_ said:
    View attachment 8526338
    Click to expand...
    smoothy8500 said:
    Well, both the video and @Windrider chart shows a ridiculous cant equal 3” at 1,000 yards …
    Click to expand...
    I’m not smart enough to reconcile @_Windrider_ ’s chart with @Lowlight ’s cant calcs here:
    www.snipershide.com

    Gunsmithing - Scope level to a rifle

    Reading over this resurrected thread got me thinking. And that's not always the best place for me. It's obvious that the only thing that matters is that the reticle is level when the shot is taken. The rifle could be canted a few degrees and as long as it was zeroed in that position with a level...
    www.snipershide.com www.snipershide.com

    But here’s lowlight/Frank’s conclusions (from Frank’s link, directly above):
    1729199951813.jpeg
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Baron23 and 3rdfocal
    You must log in or register to reply here.

    Similar threads

    Kaveman44
    Leveling a scope question
    Replies
    37
    Views
    1K
    USMC22
    U
    mobo215
    Bubble Levels Suck
    Replies
    48
    Views
    2K
    Taylorbok
    Taylorbok
    R
    Is this acceptable for a high end ring manufacturer?
    Replies
    48
    Views
    2K
    Aftermath
    Aftermath
    D
    Rifle Scopes Mounting Help: Scope Rotates w/ XTR Signature Rings
    Replies
    33
    Views
    1K
    209jones
    209jones
    L
    MKM XLP scope level
    Replies
    2
    Views
    644
    levincoupe
    L
    Top Bottom
    Back
    Home
    Forums
    Merch
    Alerts