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SAC And 419 Dies
- Thread starter Chris1972
- Start date
I believe the Cortina Precision sizing die is currently using that style of bushing.
Not trying to defend the expensive ass 419 dies here but there's some issues that I don't think should be attributed to the die necessarily.
Sounds like you have a somewhat specific use case that works really well with bushing dies, but the 419 die isn't at all set up as a bushing die. Might be better off selling it and picking up a bushing die.
The 419 die is explicitly not set up to do this, as most people want a mandrel to push neck thickness inconsistency to the outside of the case. If you wanted to eliminate the mandrel, you'd need a custom sleeve made with different neck dimensions.
This sounds like an improperly set up die or a lube issue. Even .01" or more of regular sizing won't do this.
I think you'd be surprised how many non-bushing dies crush the neck that far. The reason is to ensure plastic deformation in the neck during the mandrel operation with all available brass and chambers. It does "overwork" brass but most who would be using this die are annealing every firing anyway so it doesn't matter.
Sounds like you have a somewhat specific use case that works really well with bushing dies, but the 419 die isn't at all set up as a bushing die. Might be better off selling it and picking up a bushing die.
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I never set the A419 die to run without the mandrel and I never eluded that I did.
Please, I'm all ears. Tell me how to adjust the depth of the mandrel...
...I'll wait.
What makes you think I'd be surprised?
I know the A419 die isn't a bushing die. There's no bushing. I'm not passing a problem down the line to someone else. I have more integrity than that.
Let me ask you this. Do you have one of their dies?
6 Dasher, 223 rem and 308.
I set my die up in a similar fashion to Primal Rights.
6 Dasher with Alpha Brass.
- mandrel .240
- bushing .261
Your entire post is literally bitching about how the 419 die doesn't act like a bushing die.
Not at all.
It doesn't work properly.
Tell me how to adjust the depth of the mandrel, and answer the question. Do you have one?
Are you seeing this? Apparently we just need to, "adjust the mandrel" says a guy who doesn’t even have one.
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That’s what I had previously done, before trying the A419 die. I eliminated the need for a mandrel completely, be it in the die, or as a separate step.
To further expand on this I made an excel sheet with some simple math to tell me what bushing sized to get. My mandrel is always .003” under bullet diameter for my SAC dies. All I really have to do is plug in my bullet diameter and loaded neck diameter and it spits out the bushing size I need. Just made it quick easy and lazy for myself as I slowly transition all my sizing dies to SAC.
I only have the A419 6.5 Creedmoor die, but did some measurements on brass neck sizing without the mandrel installed. I use the .262 mandrel it shipped with for reference.
Hornady brass sized without the mandrel measured .259 at the neck Inside Diameter. Running another piece of fired brass through the die with the mandrel installed had almost no resistance sizing it to .262 neck ID.
Lapua brass sized without the mandrel measured .257 at the neck Inside Diameter. Running another piece of fired Lapua brass through the die with the mandrel installed had a fair amount of resistance, but not excessive, sizing it to .262 mouth ID.
I use Lapua brass and would prefer it if the neck bore of the die would size it closer to .259 neck ID before the mandrel goes through it on the downstroke. It does seem to be overworking the brass a bit, but I wouldn't call it excessive.
Given this is a 6.5 CM die and using Lapua brass, my experience may be different from others.
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I bought a SAC Creedmoor die probably a year and half ago and added a mandrel probably 3/4 of a year ago and don't regret the purchase. It's still just a die, but for how much I use it, it's a nice quality of life improvement over some cheaper dies I've had.
Eliminating the seperate mandrel step was probably the biggest benefit and saves significant time when loading for matches.
Eliminating the seperate mandrel step was probably the biggest benefit and saves significant time when loading for matches.
Neil Jones was making custom F/L sizing dies with shoulder bushings since before SAC existed as a company. For less $$$.
Only downside is that by now he has to be getting old AF, and getting replacement / additional bushings may be a problem.
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Has anyone had a decapping pin bend/break in a Sac die? I want to grab the decapping mandrel as I decap in a separate step. Just seeing if anyone has had issues.
I’ve reloaded literally thousand of rounds with mine and have never had an issue.
Only problem I've had with the decapping mandrels is the older ones didn't have much of a chamfer to them, so primers would sometimes stick. A fair amount of time with a cordless drill and a stone you don't care about fixed it for me.
The entire mandrel is carbide including the pin, so there's no bending it, it'll just snap if it takes a decent impact so don't drop it on concrete.
if it breaks, SAC will replace. Don't worry about it.
Yeah I’m going to buy the decapping mandrel. Turn 3 pulls Into 1 and save time.
Yup. It's fantastic. I run pretty much all SAC dies and they save a tremendous amount of time and built great.
My 6GT die (older, non-modular) with mandrel sits on an automated press and has seen upwards of 20000+ rounds and it's awesome.
I assume you’re not concerned about cleaning primer pockets or are you tumbling the brass after sizing?
Still waiting for a guy who doesn’t have the die to tell me how to adjust the mandrel.
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I did, but I generally decap separately. I decap, ultrasonic clean my brass, anneal and then put them through the sizing die.
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I had the first piece of brass almost get stuck in My Area 419 M-Series die. But after lubing it with Hornady one shot it works perfectly. I just switch to a 10:1 ratio of 99% isopropyl alcohol and liquid lanolin and the 419 die is literally so smooth now I can't really even tell i have I am sizing even when pulling the mandrel back through.
That doesn’t change the face that the necks are crushed down way further than they need or ever should be. Yes I lube my cases.
What does 419 recommend for luber?
I recently learned that Warner tool company recommends STP deluded with a little bit of 30 weight oil so it is not so thick
I recently learned that Warner tool company recommends STP deluded with a little bit of 30 weight oil so it is not so thick
While I do agree it undersizes the neck more than it needs to if you use good lube in the neck it runs smoothly.
Well I attempted to run my first piece of brass through my new M die. It immediately got stuck and now it’s fucked. I read some of the comments here before running the die, I lubed the case and case mouth with Lyman case lube and that’s all she wrote. I tried removing it to no avail, the fucker is in there.
I contacted A419 and they sent me a label and now the sleeve its on its way to them. Figured I’d let them fix it to avoid me getting frustrated and damaging it.
Bummer for sure but am pleased at how fast they responded and jumped on the issue.
Peterson 7 PRC brass 4x fired
I contacted A419 and they sent me a label and now the sleeve its on its way to them. Figured I’d let them fix it to avoid me getting frustrated and damaging it.
Bummer for sure but am pleased at how fast they responded and jumped on the issue.
Peterson 7 PRC brass 4x fired
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Man, you're still butthurt because you can't figure out how to work a resizing die? Cry harder....
Who said anything about adjusting mandrels? The only "adjustment" you can do with Area 419 mandrels is purchasing different diameters.
Lawl. The die is dimensionally not appropriate for its intended purpose, as verified with gauge pins.
There’s no reason to crush a neck down that small just to rip it back open again, and is the exact reason people went away from full length dies and expander balls, to bushing dies and a separate mandrel die.
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