Is the Chargemaster Supreme a solid choice for a beginner?

Marv_2101 · Oct 18, 2024

I’m slowly gathering parts to go down the reloading rabbit hole. So far I have ordered a Forster Co Ax and 3 sets of there bench rest FL sizing dies and seater dies for .270, 6.5 creed and 30-06.

My main purpose will be hunting inside 500 yards and to shoot small groups on paper. However I do plan to take the 30-06 and 6.5 out to 1000 yards once I get a hand on learning the ropes of reloading. Not into PRS or ELR at the moment so this is strictly a hobby for me.

I’ve been doing a lot of research of powder throwers and it seems the Auto Trickler V4 paired with the A&D fx120i scale is the gold standard with the chargemaster supreme being a solid choice as well.

1. Will the chargemaster fit my needs with the ranges I listed above?

2. Will I notice a big enough difference in group size with the Auto Trickler V4 to justify the cost?

Keep in mind I’m brand new to reloading, and will only be making small batches of ammo (50 rounds) at a time. The auto trickler seems pricey for someone just getting started but I’m also a buy once cry once individual. If the chargemaster will fit my needs then that leaves me $600 to go towards a garmin chronograph or reloading components. All recommendations welcome.

hafejd30 · Oct 18, 2024

The rcbs will hands down work for you. That’s what I use and have used for 15 years now. You will see zero downsides vs the Autotrickler.

Like comparing a 419 zero vs a rcbs rock chucker for the same task

I’ve used mine to load for my 284 for fclass. My last match I shot a 192, 196 and 198 at 1000 yards. That 198 is like putting 18/20 rounds in an area the size of your head at 1000 yards

I’ve seen no reason to chase anything better. If you were benchrest comps or trying to be top tier in fclass id say go for it. But for your needs and wants you’re better to buy the chargemaster and Xero

spife7980 · Oct 18, 2024

The charge master is the bare minimum I would consider good enough. It’s .1 instead of .02 and it’s a bit slower than the auto throw… but it’s infinitely better than any lesser alternative.

I think it sounds perfectly fine for your use case.

Franko · Oct 18, 2024

I would say the Chargemaster fits your use case. However, in your shoes I would ask around to see what the speed difference is between an ATv4 vs the Chargemaster is. If the CM will throw 41.7gr of H4350 in 40 seconds and the ATv4 will do it in 15 seconds you might decide that the speed is worth it. I mention this because before I bought an ATv4 I was running two CM lites and together they were about as fast as one ATv4.

Also, Ingenuity Precision is coming out with their version of an automated powder thrower that looks to be better than the ATv4 "soonish". So, if your willing to wait a bit, folks might be blowing out their ATv4 and Atv3's when they upgrade and you might find a really good deal on the PX that might make it worth stepping up from the Chargemaster.

hafejd30 · Oct 19, 2024

I charge my case, grab it, seat the bullet

By the time I grab the next case the charge is thrown

straightshooter1 · Oct 19, 2024

Marv_2101 said:
I’m slowly gathering parts to go down the reloading rabbit hole. So far I have ordered a Forster Co Ax and 3 sets of there bench rest FL sizing dies and seater dies for .270, 6.5 creed and 30-06.

My main purpose will be hunting inside 500 yards and to shoot small groups on paper. However I do plan to take the 30-06 and 6.5 out to 1000 yards once I get a hand on learning the ropes of reloading. Not into PRS or ELR at the moment so this is strictly a hobby for me.

I’ve been doing a lot of research of powder throwers and it seems the Auto Trickler V4 paired with the A&D fx120i scale is the gold standard with the chargemaster supreme being a solid choice as well.

1. Will the chargemaster fit my needs with the ranges I listed above?

2. Will I notice a big enough difference in group size with the Auto Trickler V4 to justify the cost?

Keep in mind I’m brand new to reloading, and will only be making small batches of ammo (50 rounds) at a time. The auto trickler seems pricey for someone just getting started but I’m also a buy once cry once individual. If the chargemaster will fit my needs then that leaves me $600 to go towards a garmin chronograph or reloading components. All recommendations welcome.

Since you'll be reloading batches of 50 rounds or so (much like I usually do, though sometimes I'll do up to 100), I think you should consider what's I've been doing that's worked very well for me: get an FX-120i and throw with a cheap thrower (like Lee's Perfect Power Measure). Then throw your powder just short of your target weight, weigh on the FX and trickle up. I find this process is actually faster than using a ChargeMaster AND it's much more consistent and accurate. You'll then have a good scale you can use for an upgrade system sometime in the future if you feel a need. Like now I've got an order in for the Ingenuity Powder System to go with the FX-120i I already have.

Marv_2101 · Oct 19, 2024

straightshooter1 said:
Since you'll be reloading batches of 50 rounds or so (much like I usually do, though sometimes I'll do up to 100), I think you should consider what's I've been doing that's worked very well for me: get an FX-120i and throw with a cheap thrower (like Lee's Perfect Power Measure). Then throw your powder just short of your target weight, weigh on the FX and trickle up. I find this process is actually faster than using a ChargeMaster AND it's much more consistent and accurate. You'll then have a good scale you can use for an upgrade system sometime in the future if you feel a need. Like now I've got an order in for the Ingenuity Powder System to go with the FX-120i I already have.

I’ve thought about doing this as well that way I would have room to grow. What are you using for a powder trickler?

straightshooter1 · Oct 19, 2024

Marv_2101 said:
I’ve thought about doing this as well that way I would have room to grow. What are you using for a powder trickler?

Believe it or not, it's just an old Frankford Arsenal Powder Trickler.

Though I added a modification . . . ~1 inch piece of clear plastic straw where I can see the granules of powder flow out and down the tube. Rather than spinning the tube to trickle, I simply tap the tube with my finger to cause a gradual or two to drop at a time or tap rapidly to quickly drop more that might be needed. Because the trickler is rather heavy (cast iron, apparently) it can be a little tricky mounting it on the FX-120i.

PS: Just so you know that I have a ChargeMaster and an FX-120i, here a pic I took for a comparison of the scales I have:

BJames · Oct 19, 2024

8541 tactical on YouTube has a reprogram guide for the CM, that and a McDonald’s straw with shark teeth cut into it, cuts throw time down to 25-30 seconds. You will have some overshoots but it doesn’t bother me that much. The CM needs some warm up time, after it warms up and a calibration, I might get 10 or so overshoots per 100 rounds.

Edited to add, I’m a field/positional shooter, I miss because of a bad wind call or something I did on the barricade. It’s not because my charge was .02 gr vs .1 off.

Doom · Oct 19, 2024

straightshooter1 said:
Since you'll be reloading batches of 50 rounds or so (much like I usually do, though sometimes I'll do up to 100), I think you should consider what's I've been doing that's worked very well for me: get an FX-120i and throw with a cheap thrower (like Lee's Perfect Power Measure). Then throw your powder just short of your target weight, weigh on the FX and trickle up. I find this process is actually faster than using a ChargeMaster AND it's much more consistent and accurate. You'll then have a good scale you can use for an upgrade system sometime in the future if you feel a need. Like now I've got an order in for the Ingenuity Powder System to go with the FX-120i I already have.

I recently went through swapping from the Chargemaster 1500 to this route but using a cheap little Gem 20 scale which has proven to be quite consistent. It takes about the same time. But my last batch of loads I went back to the 1500. The problem with consistency with the Chargemaster 1500 is the single feed tube. Hence you will see references to the straw method. and reprograming. I don't know the specifics of the Supreme but it has a learn function for dispensing different powders which should eliminate the need for reprogramming.

THe FX-120i is a very good scale at around $600. You will often see references to 0.02 grain precision which is not correct. It's actually 0.05 gr when considering display and repeatability. The Chargemaster is quoted as 0.1 gn total accuracy (display limited) but in dispense mode it is more accurate than that. The primary issue with all of them with the exception of the Matchmaster is it uses a single feed tube so it is a compromise of speed and precision. In the cartridges mentioned the affect of 0.1gn on velocity is around 5 to 6 fps.

Here is a test I ran on a $25 Gem 20 scale using a 60gn Nosler Ballistic Tip Bullet. This was to check consistency and to determine whether zeroing before each weigh would have a difference.

Here is a test throwing a 25.4 gn charge of 8208XBR with the Chargemaster.

Hope this helps some.

straightshooter1 · Oct 19, 2024

Doom said:
I recently went through swapping from the Chargemaster 1500 to this route but using a cheap little Gem 20 scale which has proven to be quite consistent. It takes about the same time. But my last batch of loads I went back to the 1500. The problem with consistency with the Chargemaster 1500 is the single feed tube. Hence you will see references to the straw method. and reprograming. I don't know the specifics of the Supreme but it has a learn function for dispensing different powders which should eliminate the need for reprogramming.

THe FX-120i is a very good scale at around $600. You will often see references to 0.02 grain precision which is not correct. It's actually 0.05 gr when considering display and repeatability. The Chargemaster is quoted as 0.1 gn total accuracy (display limited) but in dispense mode it is more accurate than that. The primary issue with all of them with the exception of the Matchmaster is it uses a single feed tube so it is a compromise of speed and precision. In the cartridges mentioned the affect of 0.1gn on velocity is around 5 to 6 fps.

Here is a test I ran on a $25 Gem 20 scale using a 60gn Nosler Ballistic Tip Bullet. This was to check consistency and to determine whether zeroing before each weigh would have a difference.
View attachment 8527846
Here is a test throwing a 25.4 gn charge of 8208XBR with the Chargemaster.
View attachment 8527847

Hope this helps some.

Yeah, I worked out a straw method that helped my CM-1500 for various powders, keeping the overthrows to a small number.

My Gem 250 was accurate too. But it took a while to figure out how to manage the drifting issue and felt it was just too much of an irritation. That's what finally got me to finally cry again

and go with the 120i.

These days, for a budget conscious newbie, rather than looking hard at an A&D FX-120i, an A&D EJ-303 would have the accuracy like that of the 120i and it also runs on batteries making it an excellent choice. IMHO And it can be had for just over $300.

https://www.hogentogler.com/and/ej-303-precision-balance.asp

Marv_2101 · Oct 19, 2024

Doom said:
I recently went through swapping from the Chargemaster 1500 to this route but using a cheap little Gem 20 scale which has proven to be quite consistent. It takes about the same time. But my last batch of loads I went back to the 1500. The problem with consistency with the Chargemaster 1500 is the single feed tube. Hence you will see references to the straw method. and reprograming. I don't know the specifics of the Supreme but it has a learn function for dispensing different powders which should eliminate the need for reprogramming.

THe FX-120i is a very good scale at around $600. You will often see references to 0.02 grain precision which is not correct. It's actually 0.05 gr when considering display and repeatability. The Chargemaster is quoted as 0.1 gn total accuracy (display limited) but in dispense mode it is more accurate than that. The primary issue with all of them with the exception of the Matchmaster is it uses a single feed tube so it is a compromise of speed and precision. In the cartridges mentioned the affect of 0.1gn on velocity is around 5 to 6 fps.

Here is a test I ran on a $25 Gem 20 scale using a 60gn Nosler Ballistic Tip Bullet. This was to check consistency and to determine whether zeroing before each weigh would have a difference.
View attachment 8527846
Here is a test throwing a 25.4 gn charge of 8208XBR with the Chargemaster.
View attachment 8527847

Hope this helps some.

Seems like the charge master holds its on. And honestly I probably could not out shoot the difference in the throws. I like the idea of the CM as it seems like the easy button but I know there are other options.

Marv_2101 · Oct 19, 2024

straightshooter1 said:
Yeah, I worked out a straw method that helped my CM-1500 for various powders, keeping the overthrows to a small number.

My Gem 250 was accurate too. But it took a while to figure out how to manage the drifting issue and felt it was just too much of an irritation. That's what finally got me to finally cry again and go with the 120i.

These days, for a budget conscious newbie, rather than looking hard at an A&D FX-120i, an A&D EJ-303 would have the accuracy like that of the 120i and it also runs on batteries making it an excellent choice. IMHO And it can be had for just over $300.

https://www.hogentogler.com/and/ej-303-precision-balance.asp

I’ve seen this scale and I believe creedmoor sports makes a good one as well. Would a setup like this be a little quicker than the charge master you think?

How would you go about setting it up, which powder dump, trickler etc would you use?

straightshooter1 · Oct 19, 2024

Marv_2101 said:
I’ve seen this scale and I believe creedmoor sports makes a good one as well. Would a setup like this be a little quicker than the charge master you think?

How would you go about setting it up, which powder dump, trickler etc would you use?

The Creedmoor Sports TRX-925 is a good scale for one that still uses a "strain gauge". The EJ-303 very different in that is uses Magnetic Force Restoration like the FX-120, making it very fast, sensitive and accurate. For the same price range, I'd go the the EJ-303.

But, to answer your question, I do think the TRX-925 would be a little quicker than using the ChargeMaster. But, you'd still need to set up a powder thrower and trickler.

In my case, my powder thrower is separate from the scale, where I throw into a pan, then put it onto the scale where I'll trickle up. With the low profile of the EJ-303, it should be easy to set up a trickler.

Note: FYI, the EJ-303 doesn't have the electronics to upgrade to any of the automatic throwing systems if you should want to upgrade in the future like you could with the FX-120i.

hafejd30 · Oct 19, 2024

I let my chargemaster throw charges. When I seat the bullet on my round the next charge is thrown and ready to go by the time I’m done

straightshooter1 · Oct 19, 2024

hafejd30 said:
I let my chargemaster throw charges. When I seat the bullet on my round the next charge is thrown and ready to go by the time I’m done

Nothing wrong with doing it that way!

It sounds efficient, but looking at the total time I take from start to finish of my reloading session and I haven't found that method to really save any time.

hafejd30 · Oct 19, 2024

straightshooter1 said:
Nothing wrong with doing it that way! It sounds efficient, but looking at the total time I take from start to finish of my reloading session and I haven't found that method to really save any time.

I don’t do it to save time. I do it so I throw my charge and seat the bullet without spilling powder and confirming that case is full of powder

I know of guys who have thrown a stack of 50 then bumped the tray or somehow contaminated the charged cases

I prime a handful of cases, then charge and seat at the same time. I also measure every OAL after seating each case as well…cause I have issues

BJames · Oct 20, 2024

Feed that OCD!

Is there a way to turn the round counting off on the CM? I swear that part takes the longest, and I have no use for it.

Doom · Oct 20, 2024

hafejd30 said:
I don’t do it to save time. I do it so I throw my charge and seat the bullet without spilling powder and confirming that case is full of powder

I know of guys who have thrown a stack of 50 then bumped the tray or somehow contaminated the charged cases

I prime a handful of cases, then charge and seat at the same time. I also measure every OAL after seating each case as well…cause I have issues

Umm, the second one hurts1 I know from experience. I modified my procedure so that I only load in 25 round batches. Dump 25 loads. Then seat 25 bullets. QC that batch. When dumping powder I will put 25 cases in a 50 round loading block all to one side. Load 5 then move to the far end so that I don't carry powder over any charged cases. Then repeat. That system work for loading with the CM or from a powder measure/trickler/scale.

Also, a word of warning, on the Chargemaster, be sure that you aren't vibrating the scale if you're seating bullets at the same time. It is easy to knock/vibrate some powder out of the spout.

hafejd30 · Oct 20, 2024

Doom said:
Umm, the second one hurts1 I know from experience. I modified my procedure so that I only load in 25 round batches. Dump 25 loads. Then seat 25 bullets. QC that batch. When dumping powder I will put 25 cases in a 50 round loading block all to one side. Load 5 then move to the far end so that I don't carry powder over any charged cases. Then repeat. That system work for loading with the CM or from a powder measure/trickler/scale.

Also, a word of warning, on the Chargemaster, be sure that you aren't vibrating the scale if you're seating bullets at the same time. It is easy to knock/vibrate some powder out of the spout.

I make sure the charge I want is exactly what’s on the scale before removing the pan. If it over throws I use a scooper from a Lee die set and put a few grains back in the CM. I’ll then trickle or tap the stem with my finger to get the few grains I need to make my weight

Been using mine for 15 + years now. Works awesome

Both press and CM are on about a 900 lbs table I built

straightshooter1 · Oct 20, 2024

hafejd30 said:
I make sure the charge I want is exactly what’s on the scale before removing the pan. If it over throws I use a scooper from a Lee die set and put a few grains back in the CM. I’ll then trickle or tap the stem with my finger to get the few grains I need to make my weight

Been using mine for 15 + years now. Works awesome

Both press and CM are on about a 900 lbs table I built

I always have one of the small yellow scoops ready when charging my cases, where I might have to remove a kernel to get the exact target weight (understanding the limits of the scale for "exactness).

While the CM is a nice unit, IMHO, I went to the FX-120i for speed and precision over the CM, though I will use my little yellow scoop.

When I was using my CM I often would have it throw where it'd either give me my target weight or underthrow. When it underthrew, like you, I'd do a trickle by tapping the stem with my finger to add the needed kernels to get to my target weight. The way I had set up my CM, I rarely had overthrows as I could regulate the amount of powder entering the drop tube with a transparent straw that would go all the way to the back of the tube and could be moved back and forth. Here's what that looked like:

3rdfocal · Oct 20, 2024

Get the chargemaster and don't look back! It is actually probably overkill for your stated goals. It will get you started making great ammo and be a good backup scale someday if you ever decide to upgrade.

Animal357 · Oct 20, 2024

I was just about to list a ChargeMaster for sale. If you are intested, I will get a pic and price. Tried to PM you, but the system would not let me for some reason

Doom · Oct 21, 2024

straightshooter1 said:
I always have one of the small yellow scoops ready when charging my cases, where I might have to remove a kernel to get the exact target weight (understanding the limits of the scale for "exactness). While the CM is a nice unit, IMHO, I went to the FX-120i for speed and precision over the CM, though I will use my little yellow scoop.

When I was using my CM I often would have it throw where it'd either give me my target weight or underthrow. When it underthrew, like you, I'd do a trickle by tapping the stem with my finger to add the needed kernels to get to my target weight. The way I had set up my CM, I rarely had overthrows as I could regulate the amount of powder entering the drop tube with a transparent straw that would go all the way to the back of the tube and could be moved back and forth. Here's what that looked like:

View attachment 8528818

View attachment 8528819

I used the straw for awhile but ultimate cut the end of a 243 case body, neck, and shoulder. It seemed to work a little bit better trickling the smaller 8208XBR. Worked more like the bushings.

Baron23 · Oct 21, 2024

Marv_2101 said:
I’m slowly gathering parts to go down the reloading rabbit hole. So far I have ordered a Forster Co Ax and 3 sets of there bench rest FL sizing dies and seater dies for .270, 6.5 creed and 30-06.

My main purpose will be hunting inside 500 yards and to shoot small groups on paper. However I do plan to take the 30-06 and 6.5 out to 1000 yards once I get a hand on learning the ropes of reloading. Not into PRS or ELR at the moment so this is strictly a hobby for me.

I’ve been doing a lot of research of powder throwers and it seems the Auto Trickler V4 paired with the A&D fx120i scale is the gold standard with the chargemaster supreme being a solid choice as well.

1. Will the chargemaster fit my needs with the ranges I listed above?

2. Will I notice a big enough difference in group size with the Auto Trickler V4 to justify the cost?

Keep in mind I’m brand new to reloading, and will only be making small batches of ammo (50 rounds) at a time. The auto trickler seems pricey for someone just getting started but I’m also a buy once cry once individual. If the chargemaster will fit my needs then that leaves me $600 to go towards a garmin chronograph or reloading components. All recommendations welcome.

There have been a number of RCBS MatchMasters (not ChargeMasters) for sale on this board. IMO, its a better option if you can get one for a good price. It has separate bulk and trickler tubes and has very good resolution and accuracy.

Just a thought.

frost1235 · Oct 22, 2024

I brought my henderson, Autotrickler V3 with IP trickler, primal rights seater, and ZCO scopes to my buddy's house to teach him how to shoot and reload. Told him to get a frankford arsenal trimmer, forster press, and a chargemaster link.

I had him reload with both the autotrickler and chargemaster to prove a simple point.

The expensive shit just saves you time. Hell, the primal rights was because I was starting to have needles after seating 8k primers a year. I didn't give a flying fudge about accuracy, it was simply to get done with loading as quickly as possible. Buy two / three chargemaster links and rest assured, you'll be fine and loading ammo as fast as you can.

alfack · Oct 22, 2024

I used a Hornady balance beam scale and a hand trickler, when I first started, in the mid-nineties.

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