You're such a child. I showed good expansion in meat. You showed questionable performance in ...? Water jugs? Some other stuff? In what cartridge? In what barrel twist? You never clarified or said. Long incoherent posts. Irrelevant information sprinkled in. Moving goal posts. Whatever you can say to obfuscate or acknowledge data presented as credible. Just you trying to win another internet argument. The problem with you is that in your head you're the end all be all. But you only know what you know. You're actually not that well traveled in this industry. The only information or knowledge you have is what you have gained in your shop. And to you that is the gospel. You've convinced yourself that no one else has anything you can learn. Literal Dunning Krueger. And it shows when you talk about supersonic BCs in subsonic flight. It never occurs to you to speak about your experience in a limited sense. "In my experience...", or "What I have seen..." with some acknowledgement that you have only experienced a portion of the story. You speak in absolutes. "They don't work" ...like ever. And then when other people post other experiences, instead of seeing it as an opportunity to learn something, you see it as a challenge to your self-appointed expertise. You are limited and small.
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338 ARC
- Thread starter Parham4020
- Start date
This is what you typed. You strongly suggest @JR1200W3 did not shoot them through any sort of meat, but through ballistic gel.
Then you hedge and say if it was through meat, well then it’s not good enough.
Why didn’t you just ask about what type of meat target it was before your accusation?
I dunno man, if that thing stops inside of me, dumping all of its energy there…ouch. Think of the wound cavity created by that sucker.
Maybe you want an exit for the blood trail?
Maybe it depends if you are hunting animals or shooting people. Regardless, lots of arguments for/against an exit wound in animals.
Me? I want small varmints to explode/backflips etc
lol…obv I’m not the target market. Meanwhile you shoot two-liter water jugs and post uncaptioned and often confusing pictures, as if others can read your mind?
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Last year I shot a cow elk with 175gr ELDX at 300yds. MV was 2930'ish. I hit her right behind the shoulder. Exactly where you'd want to. She just dropped her head and started walking forward with the rest of the herd that started moving when they heard my suppressed shot. She ended up turning around and walking the opposite direction. I shot her again and she dropped. When I gutted her, her organs against the hide were shredded but there was no penetration. No exit. No real damage to the heart or anything else. Once we had her hung up and took the hide off you could see what happened. The entrance wound was on a shattered rib. A hole the size of a soda can diameter. The bullet hit a rib and exploded. The second round dropped her. Two hits from the same bullet, two wildly different results. I swore off Hornady, non-bonded bullets for elk. Still fine for deer and antelope but not big bones animals imo. I went to the Barnes 168gr LRX for that rifle and use.
A couple of weeks ago, after suggesting to my buddy shooting a 7SAUM, that he should ditch the ELDXs and use the Barnes copper bullets for his upcoming hunt he had disappointing results. He texted me and said he was done shooting 7mm and Barnes bullets. Apparently he shot a nice bull at 400yds. Dropped it immediately. Him and his buddy sat there for 10 minutes and as they went to stand up and close the distance to dress the animal it hopped up and ran. He trailed it for 3 hours and never found it. He was sick with it.
So that's a lot of anecdotal stuff about shooting animals. So many questions, right? How did he hit the animal? Was it a good shot? What can you really take away from that? No recovered bullets. And if you did, I still had two different results with the same bullet.
Anecdotes about shooting animals just don't hold a lot of water to me. Too many variables. I'm pretty convinced there's a 9 out of 10 rule. 9 times out of 10 a bullet perfoms and sometimes shitty things happen. Hard to draw conclusions from that. But quantifying a medium as the actual intended tissue is the best thing we have to repeat a test over and over again. I do wish I had a hide on it, but one can only go so far. I've simply not seen a better way to do it.
A couple of weeks ago, after suggesting to my buddy shooting a 7SAUM, that he should ditch the ELDXs and use the Barnes copper bullets for his upcoming hunt he had disappointing results. He texted me and said he was done shooting 7mm and Barnes bullets. Apparently he shot a nice bull at 400yds. Dropped it immediately. Him and his buddy sat there for 10 minutes and as they went to stand up and close the distance to dress the animal it hopped up and ran. He trailed it for 3 hours and never found it. He was sick with it.
So that's a lot of anecdotal stuff about shooting animals. So many questions, right? How did he hit the animal? Was it a good shot? What can you really take away from that? No recovered bullets. And if you did, I still had two different results with the same bullet.
Anecdotes about shooting animals just don't hold a lot of water to me. Too many variables. I'm pretty convinced there's a 9 out of 10 rule. 9 times out of 10 a bullet perfoms and sometimes shitty things happen. Hard to draw conclusions from that. But quantifying a medium as the actual intended tissue is the best thing we have to repeat a test over and over again. I do wish I had a hide on it, but one can only go so far. I've simply not seen a better way to do it.
That's why I said ainmal to clarify what I ment....as you all know to force him to come clean that he did not shoot live animals as implicated...by the meat statement.View attachment 8528502
This is what you typed. You strongly suggest @JR1200W3 did not shoot them through any sort of meat, but through ballistic gel.
Then you hedge and say if it was through meat, well then it’s not good enough.
Why didn’t you just ask about what type of meat target it was before your accusation?
I dunno man, if that thing stops inside of me, dumping all of its energy there…ouch. Think of the wound cavity created by that sucker.
Maybe you want an exit for the blood trail?
Maybe it depends if you are hunting animals or shooting people. Regardless, lots of arguments for/against an exit wound in animals.
Me? I want small varmints to explode/backflips etc
Meanwhile you shoot two-liter water jugs and post uncaptioned and often confusing pictures, as if others can read your mind?
And that his bullets would be considered a failure IMO, if they actually did not shoot through live animals, and he recovered that many from live animals, was highly unusual.
So he confesses, he only shot at target medium with some meat on it....as suspected. It Ain't the same as live animals bullet recovery and that's all I wanted to clarify, and that's all there is to it...The facts..
If live animals is the gold standard then what ground do you have to disagree? You have no results from that medium. So why would you make a claim that they don't perform if you have no results from what you say is the only proof of performance?
In lieu of that, most reasonable people would say meat beats water jugs.
What area we talking about? How Maker bullets perform? Or what you think you read someone imply? Keep trying to deflect...
You talking about this post?
338 ARC
So I took the time to make a die and present the case with the known facts on the 338 ARC. Trimmed a case 1.283" or .010" short to be an advantage to the 300 gr Berger which is on the edge of the ogive at. 3375"... so crimp it slightly. This makes the 338 ARC useful for most subs 300 gr, beside...
www.snipershide.com
With these two pics?
He didn’t say these bullets were from live animals. Rather, he said they were from his meat target.
Am I missing a post here? Am I in…
He's talking about this post
The reality is he got, got. He was corrected itn his BC comparison. He was corrected on the Maker bullets. He's just trying to hang in by his fingernails by concocting some sort of beef. He doesn't have a 338 Spectre. He doesn't really have anything to add but he feels like people need to listen to him. About a cartridge he has no experience with.
See how the implication basically means shooting animals? Neither do I.
The reality is he got, got. He was corrected itn his BC comparison. He was corrected on the Maker bullets. He's just trying to hang in by his fingernails by concocting some sort of beef. He doesn't have a 338 Spectre. He doesn't really have anything to add but he feels like people need to listen to him. About a cartridge he has no experience with.
Oh yeah, I get that he’s “beefed” about the beef (meat) post you referenced.
I’m talking about all these bullets he said you supposedly recovered from dead animals (the quote in my post). Well, he said “live animals” but I assume he means “formally live animals” unless JR you are a fucking goddamn werewolf or some shit lol now I’m scared
He's doing a really good job of pushing blatant fake news. Causing the opposition to have to continually address something that isn't true, never was true, and never should've been the discussion. That's what he's doing. Whether deliberately or subconsciously via narcissism.
If you want to push niche, made-for-purpose 338 bullets at subsonic speeds, this cartridge will do it. It's like a real high-tech crossbow. You're basically shooting an accurate broadhead. The additional energy it adds basically just increases penetration. I don't think it really adds to the non-existent secondary wound channel.
(@45-90 disclaimer. This is from Black Collar Arms FB page. They are also having good luck with Maker expanding subs. I can't confirm what they shot these into)
Kinda tempting. I have a short barreled 300BLK, sounds tempting to get a Nuke bolt face and swap to 338 ARC.
Does anyone have the case capacity numbers compared to 338 Spectre ?
Seems like it'll work perfect for fast burning pistol magnum powders such as Bluedot, N105, N32c Tinstar
Does anyone have the case capacity numbers compared to 338 Spectre ?
Seems like it'll work perfect for fast burning pistol magnum powders such as Bluedot, N105, N32c Tinstar
Lil gun for a gasser for sure but bit slower and louder than something like blue dot for a bolt
I haven't tried blue dot in the Spectre yet so I don't know if it would work. I have tried Longshot and it doesn't work. It's too fast. It pressures out before you reach 1000fps and it pressures out fast. Works great in 300BO, but not in Spectre. So based on that I have to take the Unique recommendation back. I think it might be too fast as well. But I guess you don't know until you try it. And that's the dilemma. Could be a spicy experiment.
Thats why I'm looking for actual case h20 data so I can run some numbers in QL. I was running my 300BLK bolt gun at 55K psi for subs
When I get home this evening I could measure some water in a case for you to run
Spectre uses a 10mm magnum for the parent case & this essentially is the twin to the Spectre except with an ARC BF.
I *believe I saw on another forum it was within 2 grains of the same case capacity?
Have you used Red Dot for the 300BO?
Sure would be nice if that would work for the 338.
Edit: The ARC most likely uses the Grendel BF and the Spectre uses the SPC BF.
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Hornady doesn't have that data out yet. That said in one of their videos they talked about the importance of filling the case for better more consistent powder burn. The person that said this about the 338 ARC did not name the powder but he's a Varget fan for slow burn full case applications like this one.
I guess I missed that.
We have 6.8spc items from years ago & now have ARC components.
I never even looked at them together.
I should clarify. I'm shooting the Spectre in a bolt gun. For my action it's the same bolt. In a gas gun there could be some differences. 6.5 Grendel vs SPC. I don't know. I've not dug into that. My bad.I guess I missed that.
We have 6.8spc items from years ago & now have ARC components.
I never even looked at them together.
I've been doing long range subsonic for the last 15 years and always match my powder burn to have 100% burn, 80-90% case fill (ideally 95%+) and as close to max psi for consistent single digit SD/ES, otherwise your subs will shoot like shit past 75yrds even if they do 1/2in at 50y. For example my 300BLK bolt gun will do 8 out of 10 at 350yards on a 2moa plate.
450 BM I use trailboss for 300gr, N32C for 395gr SubX and Bluedot for 500gr cast.
308w I use trailboss for 175gr, N32C for 208SubX
300BLK I use N105 for 208-240gr, N32C for 175gr and trailboss for 135gr
Here's an excerpt from SBR Munitions webpage that talks about the Spectre a little. So different bolt in a gas gun. Grendel vs SPC.
Some quick reading *seems to lend to the following-
6.8spc Bf is 0.422”
ARC is .445”.
I understood for a gas gun the BF are different.
It would be good someone who is at their stuff to verify. I’m out of pocket to confirm myself.
They mentioned on the podcast
For $20 would you call my wife & tell her that?
I’m not aware of Hornsby 208 Sub-X.
They make a 208 AMAX projectile in a subsonic round and 190 Sub-X projectile. They also make a 255 Sub-X for 7.62 x 39 and I’ve sized it down from .310 to .308 and used it in 300 Blk.
I made a die & mocked up an approximate case, as no dimensions but case overall length 1.293" was given 52, 000 psi operating pressure.
I made it .010" short to barley cover the 300 gr Berger ogive .3375" a slight crimp will take care of that, at 1.283"
I measured the case capacity of the cut down 6.5 Grendel case, shoulder dimensions & body taper may be off, but no print to go by.
The H2O capacity was 29.0 to 29.2 grains at 1.283" the case capacity for the 338 Spectre is listed at 28.8 in QL, as slight difference in COAL and body dia. There are 2 max pressures given one for pistol brass and one for 6.8 brass. QL uses the lower pistol brass load 37,500 psi and rifle brass was something like 55,000 psi...something to check out.
But just plug the numbers into the 338 spectre data, change the COAL, case capacity , & case overall length.
With 300 gr match bullets, in a 12" barrel QL predicts the pressures will be close to max with a variety of powders at around 1200 fps.
Which should give good sub accuracy, and consistency.
W296, 1680, AA9, AA 11FS, 2400, LILGUN, H4227, IMR 4227, CFE BLK, were all in the try area.
The 4227s, and CFEBLK were getting compressed at just over 107%
W296 and LilGun , ate the first I'd try, with 300 gr match bullets.
Charge weights look to be around 10 to 14 gr with those powders, & 300 gr match bullets.
200 gr in 12" barrel looks to be around 1600 fps
160 gr Barnes tops out at 1900 fps area.
All a guesstimate on what to expect.
The Spectre has a 6.5 twist and Maker makes a bullet for sub hunters to try in the Hornady 338 ARC 8 twist, that might work, the twist rate makes a difference on opening these bullets. (In my tests, LOL)
Maker also make a light 160 gr super expanding for the Spectre to try in the ARC, for those interested.
I think the 338 ARC will make a good sub sonic gun, with good barrels, and their may be a mag feed issue with the larger 338 bullets, plus barrel extension mods for proper feeding...the industry should take care of most problems, as they arise, as Hornady being behind this should help, if not you'll have to do your own modifications.
I made it .010" short to barley cover the 300 gr Berger ogive .3375" a slight crimp will take care of that, at 1.283"
I measured the case capacity of the cut down 6.5 Grendel case, shoulder dimensions & body taper may be off, but no print to go by.
The H2O capacity was 29.0 to 29.2 grains at 1.283" the case capacity for the 338 Spectre is listed at 28.8 in QL, as slight difference in COAL and body dia. There are 2 max pressures given one for pistol brass and one for 6.8 brass. QL uses the lower pistol brass load 37,500 psi and rifle brass was something like 55,000 psi...something to check out.
But just plug the numbers into the 338 spectre data, change the COAL, case capacity , & case overall length.
With 300 gr match bullets, in a 12" barrel QL predicts the pressures will be close to max with a variety of powders at around 1200 fps.
Which should give good sub accuracy, and consistency.
W296, 1680, AA9, AA 11FS, 2400, LILGUN, H4227, IMR 4227, CFE BLK, were all in the try area.
The 4227s, and CFEBLK were getting compressed at just over 107%
W296 and LilGun , ate the first I'd try, with 300 gr match bullets.
Charge weights look to be around 10 to 14 gr with those powders, & 300 gr match bullets.
200 gr in 12" barrel looks to be around 1600 fps
160 gr Barnes tops out at 1900 fps area.
All a guesstimate on what to expect.
The Spectre has a 6.5 twist and Maker makes a bullet for sub hunters to try in the Hornady 338 ARC 8 twist, that might work, the twist rate makes a difference on opening these bullets. (In my tests, LOL)
Maker also make a light 160 gr super expanding for the Spectre to try in the ARC, for those interested.
I think the 338 ARC will make a good sub sonic gun, with good barrels, and their may be a mag feed issue with the larger 338 bullets, plus barrel extension mods for proper feeding...the industry should take care of most problems, as they arise, as Hornady being behind this should help, if not you'll have to do your own modifications.
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For faster powers like red dot with a 12" barrel 300 gr SMK would be slow and quiet
750 fps maybe at max pressure.
Unique more velocity at max pressure about 850 fps.
Power Pistol max out at 960 fps.
Blue Dot max out at 1000 fps.
An informational guesstimate to look at until the cartridge and rifles are available.
750 fps maybe at max pressure.
Unique more velocity at max pressure about 850 fps.
Power Pistol max out at 960 fps.
Blue Dot max out at 1000 fps.
An informational guesstimate to look at until the cartridge and rifles are available.
With a mock up cartridge it Max's out at 8.6 with N105, with the 300 gr bullet, velocity in the ball park, very efficient, and 100% burn.
Just two ten thousandths of a grain really jumps pressure in this small case.
So we are all going to have to adjust and report actual information, when our rifles and components arrive, and Hornady comes out with load data.
Until then, work up very slowly and report what you find... should be fun.
My idea would be to load them long to reduce the pressure. That’s what I do with 300BLK. Also if the 307gr is anything like the 190, it’ll be a shorter stubby bullet, not as long as the Berger 300.
That being said, I bagged a deer this morning with the 450BM with the 395 SubX Neck shot, DRT… so it’s like … do I *really* need another project ….
I'm a big fan of the 450 bushmaster, just installed a new 16 twist barrel on mine. Shoot every .451 to .458 bullet available from 185 gr up to 570 grs just resize them in cheap Lee resizing dies. Lots of supers are shot in mine including the 395 gr subsonic at 900 to super 1620 fps.
A favorite super is the 300 gr .458 Nosler silver tip resized .452 at 1970 fps.
Or weird loadings like shot and ball, for whatever...rats that invade your house?
Cheap 502 gr cast lead can be run up to 1350 fps area for Buffalo hunting with an ar 15 on the Great Plains.
Cheap bulk pistol bullets can be utilized use carbide 454 dies to neck em down tighter and a Lee light factory crimp die for a good powder burn on the 185/ 230 gr HP, mag dump plinkers.
The 338 ARC has nothing to offer over the 450 Bushmaster in killing power at sub ranges... My only interest in it is accuracy with match bullets, hoping it will be as accurate as my 6mm ARC. I ain't going hunting with it, but many others will.
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I'll fill one up with water today and let you know.
Manson has reamers and headspace gauges instock, but they just about doubled the price $360 for reamer and go gauge to my door. With a quality blank and barrel extension, that adds up to alot.
The cheap way for me is buy a SS Proof barrel in January. No factory dies, no brass.
The brass isn't the problem, you can make it out of 7.62X39, grendel, or grindel basic, 6 mm ARC...but to get one done in a few weeks will cost more dollars...thinking about whats available.
The cheap way for me is buy a SS Proof barrel in January. No factory dies, no brass.
The brass isn't the problem, you can make it out of 7.62X39, grendel, or grindel basic, 6 mm ARC...but to get one done in a few weeks will cost more dollars...thinking about whats available.
6.5 Grendel/6mm AR/6mm ARC/224 AR/22 ARC/338 ARC is .441” case head.
6.8 SPC/224 Valkyrie/338 Spectre is .422” or .425” for 10mm Auto Mag brass for the Spectre
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