Daughters first deer rifle

snowplow · Oct 30, 2024

Hey guys. I want to get my 17 year old daughter a Ruger American Gen 2 for Christmas. She's hunted and shot with me for years. She's no problem but pretty proficient. Right now she's been shooting a Gen 1 American 16" .308 with a spiral break.

I'm stuck between a .270, 6.5 PRC, and 6.5 CM.

My boy shoots a 270, my dad and father in law did too but l personally have no real experience with them. For some reason this sounds good to me.

Everyone else in my world says go 6.5 CM and l have to admit it's prob perfect on paper. She's tough but a pretty small framed girl.

The 6.5 PRC seems perfect but not sure about price and long term availability of ammo.

What would you guys do?

Also would you buy now when available or wait for a Christmas deal and hope they are available?

Smokin7s · Oct 30, 2024

The prc’s are here to stay id be more worried about the 270 being phased out. I would also not buy either of those for my daughter when a 6 creed and 6.5 creed are plenty get her a 6 creed and its a do all rifle until you get into rather large animals, plus it will help her to not develop a flinch from snappy recoil. It’s important to remember even myself at times that bigger isn’t always better and after I shoot a large bore rifle for a while I notice a few bad habits when I go back to the match rifle.

Makinchips208 · Oct 30, 2024

Since she is doing fine with a 308 then she will be fine with either of those three.

270 ain’t going away in our lifetime. It’s on par with the 6.5 prc out to most reasonable hunting distances. The prc can run higher bc bullets so that’s an advantage for wind.

6.5cm is couple hundred fps slower than 270. FWIW

I’d see if she has an opinion between those three fine choices.

K80/6.5 · Oct 30, 2024

So I’m planning on build for my daughter for target and deer hunting. I’m thinking 6 dasher or maybe 6 creed. Which ever I choose will be suppressed.

DeathBeforeDismount · Oct 30, 2024

What is with all the fudds and Chad's using way overkill shit to hunt deer? I mean for fucks sake...it's a light skinned easy to kill animal. Inside 300 yards .223 is more than adequate. Anything more than a .243 is complete overkill. 6 arc is about the sweet spot. Using a .308 or a PRC is nothing but a waste of meat. Unnessirary recoil does not make young shooters better hunters and shooters. In fact it does the opposite.

roostercogburn98 · Oct 30, 2024

DeathBeforeDismount said:
What is with all the fudds and Chad's using way overkill shit to hunt deer? I mean for fucks sake...it's a light skinned easy to kill animal. Inside 300 yards .223 is more than adequate. Anything more than a .243 is complete overkill. 6 arc is about the sweet spot. Using a .308 or a PRC is nothing but a waste of meat. Unnessirary recoil does not make young shooters better hunters and shooters. In fact it does the opposite.

The dumbshits called, they want their membership card back.

roostercogburn98 · Oct 30, 2024

If she already shoots 308, then why not stay with that? Other options

243, 270, 6arc, 7-08, 25-06, 30-30(unless you want to stay bolt action), etc, etc

rookie7 · Oct 30, 2024

Be prudent and error on the side of caution: just because a child can shoot said cartridge doesn't mean it isn't developing unseen bad habits.

100% buy the 6 creed or 6 arc/6.5 grendel.

I started my 9 year old daughter with a .300 blackout Ruger American. Killed everything she shot. Now she shoots a Howa 6.5 grendel and a Ruger American gen 2 predator in 6 arc.

The most detrimental variable in shooting that develops bad habits in children that take an act of God to overcome = Muzzle Blast.
One of the absolute worst in that department are so-called youth rifles in .243 with 16" to 20" barrels.

Go 6 creed - remove the brake - buy her ear pro for hunting - or get a suppressor.

My .02.

DeathBeforeDismount · Oct 30, 2024

K80/6.5 said:
So I’m planning on build for my daughter for target and deer hunting. I’m thinking 6 dasher or maybe 6 creed. Which ever I choose will be suppressed.

Imo if you include all the deer species like mule, blacktail, sitka and whitetail...the br based 6 mils are the perfect deer cartridge. Low recoil, high bc, inherently accurate, and more than enough energy to kill deer out as far as you are comfortable shooting. You MAY want more ass for something like shots past 500 on a mule deer buck but that's really the exception. 6 creed is also an easy button too for factory rifles/ammo. .
I think a 6GT or 6Arc ( due to factory ammo) would be about perfect. If you reload then the dasher br and bra and GT are hard to beat.

K80/6.5 · Oct 30, 2024

DeathBeforeDismount said:
Imo if you include all the deer species like mule, blacktail, sitka and whitetail...the br based 6 mils are the perfect deer cartridge. Low recoil, high bc, inherently accurate, and more than enough energy to kill deer out as far as you are comfortable shooting. You MAY want more ass for something like shots past 500 on a mule deer buck but that's really the exception. 6 creed is also an easy button too for factory rifles/ammo. .
I think a 6GT or 6Arc ( due to factory ammo) would be about perfect. If you reload then the dasher br and bra and GT are hard to beat.

Yeah I was also looking at 6gt I already have all the dies and brass for dasher and I know it’s less recoil than the creedmoor. I’m going get the manners night stalker so it adjustable for her and I can also use it if I want.

powdahound76 · Oct 30, 2024

6 or 6.5 creed.

My daughter is hunting right now with a 6.5 creed and 140 Berger hunters.

we have a buck tag and an OTC bull tag.

More than enough rifle at the distances Im gonna let her shoot game.
Bigger works, but isnt necessary.

Her target rifle is a switch barrel in .223, 6 BR, and 6.5 creed.

Ronws · Oct 30, 2024

If she is already shooting .308, then she has already learned to deal with recoil.

That being said, nothing wrong with going lighter. It depends on the job of the rifle. Is this for anything up to mule deer?

And bigger does not always mean one shot, one kill. You can shoot a .300 WM and still need more than one shot on perhaps an elk or moose.

Conversely, Rob Arrington at deermeatfordinner brought down a moose in, I think, two shots. I don't know if the first shot missed. But the second shot did bring him down. I want to say this was probably under 300 yards with a 6.5 CM 143 gr ELD-X in a Howa 1500 with a Burris Eliminator III scope. A moose in Canada on the Cree Nation.

Go to time stamp 03:10 to get to the action.

jbuck88 · Oct 30, 2024

I thought about a BR based round for my kid, but reliable feeding is a top priority. I never quite got my 6br to feed perfect, I'm sure some here have and I'll get reminded of that. I'll keep playing with it though as I do think it would be the perfect deer round.

That said I went with a 6.5grendel howa mini for my 11yo and 6cm for my wife. I shoot a 6.5cm and it's about perfect for me. I'd reccomend the 6mm cm, or plain 243win. I also had a Manzanilla spin a 6mm CM barrel for my Mousingfield action and used it as a loaner this year. So it has 5 deer from 80 to 360yds.

KYAggie · Oct 30, 2024

First, if she’s already handling a 16” 308 with a brake, the 6mm’s everyone here is suggesting would not even remotely be a consideration, especially considering her age. The 6.5’s are obviously great choices and the minimum of where I would start. Do you load your own rounds? If so, out of the choices you mentioned, I would go with the good old 270. There’s not much a good 130 or 140 grain bullet won’t do out of that gun and with the right powder, it can be pushed to 3000-3100 in a 270, or run around 2800-2900 fps for a reduced, but very effective deer round. Also, you can run 150 partitions or a 129 Barnes LRX for elk or moose within a reasonable distance. If she’s recoil shy, get her a Caldwell Recoil Shield to use at the range; they work very well. The 270 isn’t going away anytime soon, there’s too many of them out there, and they are just as effective as today’s new “hotness” rounds and the ammo is cheaper.

I started my center fire shooting when I was 13 years old and 95# soaking wet with a Ruger 77 in 7mm mag. Yes, everyone, and I mean everyone, except my dad, wanted me to get a 6mm. They were wrong. The 7 mag was great and I would have outgrown the 6 mm almost instantly. I still have the 7 mag and three 270’s, two of which were given to me. Go with the 270, especially if you reload.

redneckbmxer24 · Oct 30, 2024

The suggestions on the 6MM options are spot on. 6ARC, 243, or 6CM would be my choice for a youth or not with the 6ARC being the preference. Any of them will kill deer as dead as anything else to 600 yards and you can lose the brake and muzzle blast/noise and still have less recoil and a more comfortable gun to shoot than the 308.

Even if you think she’s shooting that 308 fine she will still shoot a rifle with less recoil and less muzzle blast better and at the end of the day shot placement is what puts an animal on the ground.

jthor · Oct 30, 2024

I grew up deer hunting as a kid with a 270 win with Remington recoil reduction loads. Did just fine. This was also in thick woods in south east Texas

Nowadays hunting in the mountains and plains for deer I have really fallen in love using the 6.5 PRC with 156 Berger EOLs. It’s all I’ve used for deer since 2019. Its very pleasant to shoot with or without a 3 port Hawkins Tank brake on it.

Bullet options allow you to tune it for your daughter’s needs for recoil from light bullets to heavies.

jbuck88 · Oct 30, 2024

Bullet technology has come a long way over the decades.

The 6.5cm is already a fairly small by traditional standards, but modern bullets and faster twists have made it a great hunting cartridge. I've used one over the years and killed everything I've pointed it at. This year was my first year actually trying to learn the 6mmCM and noticed a pretty big difference on energy transfer when comparing the 103gr 6mm to 143gr 6.5mm. Almost like there is a correlation between bullet weight and energy transfer. Except for a miss the 6mmCM has also killed everything it hit.

After rereading your OP I'd suggest the 6.5cm. Not sure if ruger offers a 6mmCM

hlee · Oct 30, 2024

My first deer rifle was a 30-30 win. I shot plenty of deer with that gun. When I was in HS, my dad bought me a 270win. Between the cartridge and the mountain rifle weight, it was too much gun and I struggled with it. I distinctly remember sitting in a deer blind after missing a buck, thinking that I was going to throw it in the trash when I got back to the cabin. But, struggle I did, and we finally got on the same page. It doesn’t get shot much, but it is the rifle I grab for mountain hunts. I’ve taken lots of deer with this gun too.

243win is a weird one. Popular as a youth rifle, it has a reputation- around here- as the “243 deer wounder.” This reputation is no doubt in large part due to its popularity as a youth gun. And, it may be due to the light weight projectiles common in most factory loads. Again in HS, I was hunting with a buddy who had a 243. He shot at a deer that bolted, with no sign that it had been hit. We looked for that deer for a while, but with no blood or other sign, we chalked it up to a miss. Latter that day, my dad and the property owner found that deer with a tiny entrance wound and no exit wound- from a distance of less than 150 yards. Entrance wounds let the bullet in. Exit wounds let the blood out. I’m a fan of exit wounds.

My older son took his first buck with a 223 rem AR15. My younger son took his first deer with a 6.5 Grendel AR15, and the 6.5 Grendel is what I’ve settled on as the right combination of features for the hunting that we do. Shots are rarely over 100 yards and shots over 200 are impossible due to the environment.

That said, I’d probably go with a 6.5 creedmoor. Easily available ammunition (much more so than the Grendel), wide bullet selection, manageable recoil, plenty of bullet mass (on par with the 270 win offerings). There are a number of reasons why it is so popular. And, while 223rem may be sufficient to kill a deer, there are some states where it is insufficient by statute.

Besides that, ladies can look good wearing a bun…

KYAggie · Oct 30, 2024

hlee said:
My first deer rifle was a 30-30 win. I shot plenty of deer with that gun. When I was in HS, my dad bought me a 270win. Between the cartridge and the mountain rifle weight, it was too much gun and I struggled with it. I distinctly remember sitting in a deer blind after missing a buck, thinking that I was going to throw it in the trash when I got back to the cabin. But, struggle I did, and we finally got on the same page. It doesn’t get shot much, but it is the rifle I grab for mountain hunts. I’ve taken lots of deer with this gun too.

243win is a weird one. Popular as a youth rifle, it has a reputation- around here- as the “243 deer wounder.” This reputation is no doubt in large part due to its popularity as a youth gun. And, it may be due to the light weight projectiles common in most factory loads. Again in HS, I was hunting with a buddy who had a 243. He shot at a deer that bolted, with no sign that it had been hit. We looked for that deer for a while, but with no blood or other sign, we chalked it up to a miss. Latter that day, my dad and the property owner found that deer with a tiny entrance wound and no exit wound- from a distance of less than 150 yards. Entrance wounds let the bullet in. Exit wounds let the blood out. I’m a fan of exit wounds.

My older son took his first buck with a 223 rem AR15. My younger son took his first deer with a 6.5 Grendel AR15, and the 6.5 Grendel is what I’ve settled on as the right combination of features for the hunting that we do. Shots are rarely over 100 yards and shots over 200 are impossible due to the environment.

That said, I’d probably go with a 6.5 creedmoor. Easily available ammunition (much more so than the Grendel), wide bullet selection, manageable recoil, plenty of bullet mass (on par with the 270 win offerings). There are a number of reasons why it is so popular. And, while 223rem may be sufficient to kill a deer, there are some states where it is insufficient by statute.

Besides that, ladies can look good wearing a bun…

This was my experience watching kids and adults shoot west Texas whitetails with anything 6mm growing up and those deer were not very large. They wounded a lot of deer with them. It made me glad I had a 7mm mag, although it was way more than enough. The 6.5mm’s were not on the popular scene yet other than the barrel burner 264, so they were not an option I considered in the early 80’s. They are a great option now.

Mike Casselton · Oct 30, 2024

DeathBeforeDismount said:
Imo if you include all the deer species like mule, blacktail, sitka and whitetail...the br based 6 mils are the perfect deer cartridge. Low recoil, high bc, inherently accurate, and more than enough energy to kill deer out as far as you are comfortable shooting. You MAY want more ass for something like shots past 500 on a mule deer buck but that's really the exception. 6 creed is also an easy button too for factory rifles/ammo. .
I think a 6GT or 6Arc ( due to factory ammo) would be about perfect. If you reload then the dasher br and bra and GT are hard to beat.

^^^^^
That right there is great advice.

I'll also add in to let your daughter pick the cartridge based on her tolerance to recoil. She may have been shooting the 308, but she might not like it.

Educate her on cartridge capability and how much recoil they produce with a given rifle weight.

Also, the rifle needs to fit her properly.

Don't shop for yourself.
Shop for her.

Sometimes, it just boils down to liking what the cartridge looks like, as long as it'll do the job.

Charlie112 · Oct 30, 2024

My daughter shoots a Tikka 223, killed two bucks, no monsters but for her, a great starter rifle!! Easy on the bench to practice with..

hlee · Oct 30, 2024

The br, bra, and gt are unavailable in the Ruger American gen 2…

powdahound76 · Oct 30, 2024

6 creed is more than enough for deer.
Shot placement matters….

6.5 and 140 eldm at normal speed drops them in their tracks at ranges past 500

Only issue with the 6BR/Dasher/GT is handloading.
6 creed you can grab ammo anywhere.

I say that as ammo can be forgotten.
I havent done that, yet…..

Here in CO, you have to use .243 or larger bullets for big game (deer, antelope, elk, etc)
Otherwise my kid would love to hunt with a 16” AR

hlee · Oct 30, 2024

powdahound76 said:
I say that as ammo can be forgotten.
I havent done that, yet…..

Standing, surrounded by a sea of “hunting stuff…”
Gun? Yep
Ammo? Check
Binos? Uh huh
Knives? Yeah
Etc…
Several hours later, pulling into the property gate. MAGS! Fucking magazines. You forgot a magazine…

I now have one of “everything” in my shooting bag…

jbuck88 · Oct 30, 2024

Yes, the OP asked what cartridge in the Ruger American rifle line up.

Mike Casselton · Oct 30, 2024

jbuck88 said:
Yes, the OP asked what cartridge in the Ruger American rifle line up.

The 6 ARC and Grendel are available

hlee · Oct 30, 2024

I don’t own a Grendel bolt action, but a hand loader can push it harder in a bolt action than they can in an AR. I get 2450ish with 123 gr eld-m loads from an 18” AR. I don’t have the new Hornady reloading book, but I’ve heard rumors that there are bolt gun specific loads for the Grendel cases in it. That would close some of the performance gap between the creedmoors and the Grendels.

jbuck88 · Oct 30, 2024

My howa mini is running 2530fps with 123gr eldm's. It's not a hot load.

powdahound76 · Oct 30, 2024

If I was buying a Ruger American for my kid to hunt deer with, that 6.5 Grendel would be attractive.

For distances, say 300 and in, I would be tempted to drop to 100 gr bullet and go up on speed…..

Light 3-9 scope that can in dial for drops (in mils or course, we aint gay MOA round here) and it is perfect!!!

redneckbmxer24 · Oct 30, 2024

KYAggie said:
This was my experience watching kids and adults shoot west Texas whitetails with anything 6mm growing up and those deer were not very large. They wounded a lot of deer with them. It made me glad I had a 7mm mag, although it was way more than enough. The 6.5mm’s were not on the popular scene yet other than the barrel burner 264, so they were not an option I considered in the early 80’s. They are a great option now.

Weird that I shot at least a hundred (probably a couple hundred) VA does on soybean fields which are considerably larger than TX deer with 223’s and usually loaded with varmint bullets and never lost one. The ones that didn’t drop never went more than 30 yards or so.

Most people just can’t shoot for a shit under good conditions and only get worse when they start shaking because a deer walks out in from of them and you can’t blame the round for their piss poor shooting although most do. They’d wound deer the same (or more) with a bigger gun. If you can’t understand that then there’s no getting through to you.

6mm’s are great for deer and any other hoofed critter in North America. You just have to not totally suck at shooting.

snowplow · Oct 30, 2024

Thanks for all the great thoughts guys. I really am not familiar with the 6 CM or the Grendel. I actually thought the grand doll was a specialty cartridge that never really caught on or something. She can handle the 308 just fine, but I am totally of the mind with you guys Glass recoil would be a good thing.

She's also the type of girl who I don't expect to stop hunting. She begs me to go. With that being said, I don't really know her is the type of girl who is into getting new gear all the time. It wouldn't surprise me at all if this ends up being her rifle from her dad and she shoots it the rest of her life. Maybe not but maybe. With that being said, That's why I'm looking for something versatile. I'm looking for a rifle she could close range Black tail hunt with (which is what we normally do) or go stretch it out a little bit for whitetails and muleys. Also black bear hunt. Decent on small game would be a bonus as well. That's kind of what led me to these cartridges. I'll do some research on the Grendel and the 6 Creedmoor.

DeathBeforeDismount · Oct 30, 2024

Charlie112 said:
My daughter shoots a Tikka 223, killed two bucks, no monsters but for her, a great starter rifle!! Easy on the bench to practice with..

.223 with a good bonded soft point or even something like the SMK TMK is a whitetail/sika slayer. You rarely need more, If someone needs more than that, then they need to spend more time on the range and learn to shoot.

DeathBeforeDismount · Oct 30, 2024

KYAggie said:
This was my experience watching kids and adults shoot west Texas whitetails with anything 6mm growing up and those deer were not very large. They wounded a lot of deer with them. It made me glad I had a 7mm mag, although it was way more than enough. The 6.5mm’s were not on the popular scene yet other than the barrel burner 264, so they were not an option I considered in the early 80’s. They are a great option now.

Its because they had way too much gun. Poor fundamentals due to recoil and blast. With an easier to shoot gun that didnt scare them, they would most likely be making kill shots, not wounding them. Texas deer are the size of dogs. If you can't kill one with a .223, you need to pick up a new hobby like knitting or basketweaving.

Explain how a gun that is shot less than 20 times a year becomes an issue because its a barrel burner. Take the most overbore cartridge and a fudd wont shoot it out in 30+ years of hunting.

This is where we learn who actually hunts and who doesn't. Guys who have been hunting often and for a long time know its all about shot placement and preserving meat. If you need some long action magnum to kill a deer, you aint a hunter.

jbuck88 · Oct 30, 2024

My oldest son got into hunting, I bought him a ruger american in 6.5cm and it's been great. It's not the most glamorous rifle, but he has been hunting with it for the last 4 or 5 years and yet to complain.

His was the package that came with the Vortex and took aics mags.

I was unsure if he was going to stick with it, so I went with a solid budget offering and have zero regrets. He can upgrade as he wants, but so far he is happy with it.

Based on your hunting criteria if it's just a 1 and done rifle I would look at the 6.5cm. Should have enough power for bear, with proper bullets.

NateVA · Oct 30, 2024

KYAggie said:
The 6.5’s are obviously great choices and the minimum of where I would start.

Why are they the minimum?

KYAggie said:
If she’s recoil shy, get her a Caldwell Recoil Shield to use at the range; they work very well.

In that situation, why not just use a cartridge that doesn't recoil as much?

KYAggie said:
First, if she’s already handling a 16” 308 with a brake, the 6mm’s everyone here is suggesting would not even remotely be a consideration, especially considering her age.

Many people flinch from the concussion of a brake as much as they flinch from actual recoil. "Especially considering her age" I'd 10000% be looking to suppress whatever she's shooting that's for sure.

KYAggie said:
The 7 mag was great and I would have outgrown the 6 mm almost instantly.

Outgrown it how?

KYAggie said:
This was my experience watching kids and adults shoot west Texas whitetails with anything 6mm growing up and those deer were not very large. They wounded a lot of deer with them. It made me glad I had a 7mm mag, although it was way more than enough.

Why do you think your 7mm would kill a deer that was only wounded with a 6mm?

cas6969 · Oct 30, 2024

Go down to Walmart and see what calibers are for sale.

DeathBeforeDismount · Oct 30, 2024

cas6969 said:
Go down to Walmart and see what calibers are for sale.

who cares what walmart sells. These old fudd pearls of wisdom need to die.

jbuck88 · Oct 30, 2024

NateVA said:
Why are they the minimum?

In that situation, why not just use a cartridge that doesn't recoil as much?

Many people flinch from the concussion of a brake as much as they flinch from actual recoil. "Especially considering her age" I'd 10000% be looking to suppress whatever she's shooting that's for sure.

Outgrown it how?

Why do you think your 7mm would kill a deer that was only wounded with a 6mm?

I've seen people go in cycles with regards to their hunting choice. Youthful exuberance to old and experience. In general they climb the magnum cartridge ladder and start working back down the otherside as they gain experience. Not a hard and fast rule, just what I've seen with our hunting group.

The supressor or brake is a tough one. I have one kid who prefers the brake and one who likes suppressed. Hunting is 100% suppressed.

NateVA · Oct 30, 2024

jbuck88 said:
I've seen people go in cycles with regards to their hunting choice. Youthful exuberance to old and experience. In general they climb the magnum cartridge ladder and start working back down the otherside as they gain experience. Not a hard and fast rule, just what I've seen with our hunting group.

The supressor or brake is a tough one. I have one kid who prefers the brake and one who likes suppressed. Hunting is 100% suppressed.

Given the largest animal I'll ever hunt will be elk I don't see myself going above 6.5PRC at the highest for wind purposes. It seems that 99% of hunters in the US have no idea how bullets work and kill things on a basic level which makes these discussions kind of annoying.

TheJeanyus · Oct 30, 2024

powdahound76 said:
I say that as ammo can be forgotten.
I havent done that, yet…..

I did that once when I was around 9-10 years old. My dad was cool about it. He laughed about it, then we went to Waffle House for breakfast before heading back home. Now I keep ammo with the rifle, in my backpack, and more in the truck...

6.5 Creedmoor is the most logical answer. Is it more than you really need to kill a deer? Yes. Can you kill a deer too dead? No. There are several advantages though.
1. The recoil is very mild. I don't know anyone who can't shoot a 6.5 Creedmoor unless they have an injury that prevents it (such as my friend who has a bunch of titanium and screws in his neck). My son used to shoot my Tikka 6.5 Creed just fine at 8 years old.
2. Good ammo is everywhere and reasonably priced.
3. It's a forgiving cartridge to load for with a ton of great bullet options, and the components are usually available due to the popularlity.

It isn't an exciting or sexy cartridge choice these days, and its popularity has created a bunch of haters who just shit on it for fun. There's a reason it's popular though - it's sort of the Goldilocks choice of rifle cartridges.

roostercogburn98 · Oct 30, 2024

DeathBeforeDismount said:
who cares what walmart sells. These old fudd pearls of wisdom need to die.

That’s the largest retail store A LOT people have access to. I grew up in a town that had a super Walmart and two pawn shops. They were hit or miss with ammo even back then.

Walmart is a great reference for finding hunting ammo. And add to that what places are closed on some days of the week, where WM is 24/7. Our local gun stores are ALL closed on Monday. Guess when I fly in Sunday and my ammo is lost or I forgot it, I need to add another day of waiting to my trip with your logic.

redneckbmxer24 · Oct 30, 2024

snowplow said:
It wouldn't surprise me at all if this ends up being her rifle from her dad and she shoots it the rest of her life.

If that’s the case I would focus more on getting her a nicer rifle than a crappy Ruger American. If she’s 17 and little she’s probably done growing so you’re not pissing money away buying something that will be too small for her in a few years.

I would give the M70 Featherweight Compact a good look. They’re a beautiful rifle and the new ones are well made and very accurate. The compact is a 13” LOP which fits smaller people very well.

A 6mm will ethically and efficiently kill ANYTHING she will hunt on the continent. It’s hard to go wrong with a straight 243, it’s extremely versatile and ammo is abundant. You can find 243 at any Walmart or mom and pop hardware store. You’ll almost never see 6ARC or 6.5G on the shelf and you’ll sometimes see 6CM at more specialty stores and Cabela’s/sportsman’s in limited flavors. Walmart will have a half dozen 243 loads in a pinch that will work well to normal hunting ranges (400 yards) and cabelas and the like will have a dozen options or more with some more premium options.

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KYAggie · Oct 30, 2024

NateVA said:
Why are they the minimum?

In that situation, why not just use a cartridge that doesn't recoil as much?

That is definitely an option and available in the 6.5’s. I don’t really think a 270 has difficult to manage recoil, but some do.

NateVA said:
Many people flinch from the concussion of a brake as much as they flinch from actual recoil. "Especially considering her age" I'd 10000% be looking to suppress whatever she's shooting that's for sure.

Thats a great idea if he can do it. I’m not a big fan of brakes on a hunting rifle as you never feel the kick when hunting anyway and muzzle blast under a tin roofed range cover is worse than in the woods. Suppressors are awesome if you can swing it.

NateVA said:
Outgrown it how?

Yes, out grown it. I consider the 6mm a 300 yards and less deer gun. Where I was hunting, I wanted a complete pass through as no blood trail often equaled a lost deer because of cover and how the blended into the surroundings. Oh, it would kill them with a well placed shot, no doubt, but recover was another issue. I didn’t have the advantage of hunting bean fields where they could run and you could see them pile up 30-100 yards away. Also, I eventually hunted elk with it in Idaho and would never have done that with a 6mm.

NateVA said:
Why do you think your 7mm would kill a deer that was only wounded with a 6mm?

It won’t. What I should have said was I saw a lot of deer shot with them and not recovered because there either was no blood trail or a very small one. Who knows what the shot placement was and for sure that could have been an issue, but the interesting thing is that my impression of 6mm’s was gathered between the ages of 13-18 on a 9500 acre deer lease in west Texas. The guys shooting the 270, 7 mag, and 30-06 did not have problems recovering the deer they shot; the 243 6 mm guys did. You would think that the 6mm guys would have better shot placement due to much less recoil and no problems recovering deer, but it didn’t pan out that way. I remember one dude ditching his 243 for a 30-06 and don’t remember having to track deer for him after that. IDK, just my experience.

I don’t know what the terrain is like where the OP is hunting. Nor do I know if elk or moose is on the menu. 270 as well as the PRC fits, the CM is marginal in my opinion for animals larger than deer, the 6mm’s are a solid no, unless you are hunting in the open, a great shot in the field, and elk and moose are not on the menu.

It’s an opinion based on years of experience and it’s free. Free to receive and free to be ignored.

redneckbmxer24 · Oct 30, 2024

An opinion based on years of experience, yet an opinion on 6mm’s based on ZERO experience of shooting animals with them yourself… just what you’ve heard from other hunters that probably made a piss poor shot and blamed it on the rifle instead of taking responsibility.

6mm /.243 hunting success on Big Game

With the success of .223 and 6.5 threads on big game, thought I’d throw this one into the mix. Show and detail your results harvesting big game (deer, bear, elk, moose, African game) using 6mm/.243 cartridges. Please detail bullet, MV, impact velocity, and whether hand load or factory ammo.

rokslide.com

There’s a lot of dead deer, elk, and moose in that thread along with pictures showing the terminal effectiveness of 6mm on game from people who have actually shot animals with them…

You don’t see people who have converted to the smaller caliber stuff for hunting switching back to bigger bullets. Only more and more people waking up and seeing that animals actually aren’t invincible and don’t need big magnums to effectively harvest them.

USP45 · Oct 30, 2024

6.5 Creedmoor. It is what I built for my son, and what I will be building for my daughter, for multiple reasons.

Quality factory ammo (in case they do not want to reload like I do)
Very available ammo, 6.5CM is now one of the most popular rifle cartridges in the US at least
It is here to stay, not a fad cartridge
Capable of taking just about any game animal in North America, so plenty of future options
Relatively light recoil
High performance/high BC offerings in twist rates to stabilize
Unlikely she will ever shoot the barrel out unless she really gets into shooting

There are a ton of great options out there, and I know the 6.5CM seems to get some hate these days, but it really is the "Goldielocks" cartridge.

jbuck88 · Oct 30, 2024

redneckbmxer24 said:
An opinion based on years of experience, yet an opinion on 6mm’s based on ZERO experience of shooting animals with them yourself… just what you’ve heard from other hunters that probably made a piss poor shot and blamed it on the rifle instead of taking responsibility.

6mm /.243 hunting success on Big Game

With the success of .223 and 6.5 threads on big game, thought I’d throw this one into the mix. Show and detail your results harvesting big game (deer, bear, elk, moose, African game) using 6mm/.243 cartridges. Please detail bullet, MV, impact velocity, and whether hand load or factory ammo.

rokslide.com

There’s a lot of dead deer, elk, and moose in that thread along with pictures showing the terminal effectiveness of 6mm on game from people who have actually shot animals with them…

You don’t see people who have converted to the smaller caliber stuff for hunting switching back to bigger bullets. Only more and more people waking up and seeing that animals actually aren’t invincible and don’t need big magnums to effectively harvest them.

F'n rokslide.

I stay away from there for the most part because of this attitude. Get beat up because I believe when I see with my eyes, not a thread where people post the ones they recovered and don't talk about the ones they didn't get to shoot. Or even worse the ones they wound to run off and die later.

Yes, a elk can be killed with a 22lr. People have killed grizzly bears with 22lr. The trend over there is smaller is better. I'm surprised you didn't post up the 223 for everything thread.

There is a tool for every job. Like shotguns shooting you need more skill, not less for smaller calibers. A 28ga is a experienced hunters round, not a beginners.

You need knowledge and the willingness to walk away from animals to take a small rifle into the woods. Something most starting out don't possess.

I'm a exit wound fan.

redneckbmxer24 · Oct 30, 2024

jbuck88 said:
F'n rokslide.

I stay away from there for the most part because of this attitude. Get beat up because I believe when I see with my eyes, not a thread where people post the ones they recovered and don't talk about the ones they didn't get to shoot. Or even worse the ones they wound to run off and die later.

Yes, a elk can be killed with a 22lr. People have killed grizzly bears with 22lr. The trend over there is smaller is better. I'm surprised you didn't post up the 223 for everything thread.

There is a tool for every job. Like shotguns shooting you need more skill, not less for smaller calibers. A 28ga is a experienced hunters round, not a beginners.

You need knowledge and the willingness to walk away from animals to take a small rifle into the woods. Something most starting out don't possess.

I'm a exit wound fan.

Cockslide has a lot of faggotry but there’s also some good data over there and that thread is some good data points.

If you looked at that thread and paid any attention at all you would see that those 6mm’s cause huge wounds and you would also see that 6mm’s will in fact exit elk and moose and last time I checked those are bigger than a deer.

Sorry you can’t get past the mental block and see that the shit works damn well and that it’s nothing like a 22.

NateVA · Oct 30, 2024

jbuck88 said:
Get beat up because I believe when I see with my eyes, not a thread where people post the ones they recovered and don't talk about the ones they didn't get to shoot. Or even worse the ones they wound to run off and die later.

I don't think it's helpful to do fanfiction about possible hypothetical scenarios when confronted with a collection of pictures and videos of it being fine in reality.

jbuck88 said:
I'm a exit wound fan.

I'm more into what the bullet does inside the animal but if an exit wound is 100% required I can definitely see where you're coming from as far as larger cartridges (and monolithics I guess) being better odds of that happening. I used Barnes 180gr TSXs out of a 300WM for a few years and was very unimpressed terminally but I always got an exit wound.

jbuck88 said:
Yes, a elk can be killed with a 22lr. People have killed grizzly bears with 22lr. The trend over there is smaller is better.

I think that's too much of an exaggeration. A .22lr of any weight will not penetrate deep enough on those animals to be considered an ethical/reliable round. I've seen no evidence to indicate a 6mm is unable to penetrate deep enough as long as it hits above its bullet's minimum impact velocity (normally 1800 fps or so).

jbuck88 said:
You need knowledge and the willingness to walk away from animals to take a small rifle into the woods. Something most starting out don't possess.

That's something hunters using any cartridge should have. But let's say we're talking about 6CM with a 105-110gr bullet of some flavor vs a 7RM with a 160-180gr bullet of the same flavor. What shot angles/scenarios does the 7RM give me that the 6CM doesn't?

This isn't un-knowable information. We know how much penetration is needed on your average deer and elk. We know how thick their scapulas are. We know how much muscle (on average) the bullet has to get through before entering the relatively low impact-resistant chest cavity.

jbuck88 · Oct 30, 2024

NateVA said:
I don't think it's helpful to do fanfiction about possible hypothetical scenarios when confronted with a collection of pictures and videos of it being fine in reality.

I'm more into what the bullet does inside the animal but if an exit wound is 100% required I can definitely see where you're coming from as far as larger cartridges (and monolithics I guess) being better odds of that happening. I used Barnes 180gr TSXs out of a 300WM for a few years and was very unimpressed terminally but I always got an exit wound.

I think that's too much of an exaggeration. A .22lr of any weight will not penetrate deep enough on those animals to be considered an ethical/reliable round. I've seen no evidence to indicate a 6mm is unable to penetrate deep enough as long as it hits above its bullet's minimum impact velocity (normally 1800 fps or so).

That's something hunters using any cartridge should have. But let's say we're talking about 6CM with a 105-110gr bullet of some flavor vs a 7RM with a 160-180gr bullet of the same flavor. What shot angles/scenarios does the 7RM give me that the 6CM doesn't?

This isn't un-knowable information. We know how much penetration is needed on your average deer and elk. We know how thick their scapulas are. We know how much muscle (on average) the bullet has to get through before entering the relatively low impact-resistant chest cavity.

I've seen some f'd up shooting thanks to misinformation. Elk shot multiple times just to run away and never be recovered. I've found those dead elk as well while hunting.

Sure using the 22lr is an exaggeration, but so is saying everyone on those forums are 100% honest when they say the the 223 or 6mm works 100% of the time.

Anything quartering towards you has some pretty serious bones between you and the vitals. My kid shot a deer in the forehead with a 103gr 6mmCM, impact velocity was around 2,700fps and it did not exit. That's a lot thinner bone. Sure deer was dead, but based on what I seen I don't think that would have reached the vitals on a quartering elk. That deer skull was what 6" or so front to back?

Deer in question.

redneckbmxer24 · Oct 30, 2024

143 ELD-X blew up on the shoulder?

I've been around here long enough to know that it's not wise to make uneducated bold claims, HOWEVEVER - this happened to be pretty well documented by a buddy of mine. I know "it just doesn't happen", but these photos and what he told me are extremely perplexing. @Formidilosus I'd love to hear...

rokslide.com

There’s an example for those who believe that bigger calibers can’t wound deer.

I was hunting with a buddy and had the exact same thing happen only with an even bigger caliber (7STW with a 154gr SST). Group of does stepped out a little over 250 yards, I shot first since I was suppressed and dropped one with a head shot he shot right after me. I watched his deer get knocked down hard like it caught a wrecking ball and get right back up and run about 20 yards where it stopped for a second and looked at its shoulder and that’s when I head shot it as well. When we got to the deer his had a massive crater in the shoulder. Two small fragments made it through and penetrated the inside lung with little damage and there was little blood in that lung. That deer never would have been found if I hadn’t followed up on it for him.

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