Daughters first deer rifle

#101
powdahound76 said:
6 creed is more than enough for deer.
Shot placement matters….

6.5 and 140 eldm at normal speed drops them in their tracks at ranges past 500

Only issue with the 6BR/Dasher/GT is handloading.
6 creed you can grab ammo anywhere.

I say that as ammo can be forgotten.
I havent done that, yet….. 🤣

Here in CO, you have to use .243 or larger bullets for big game (deer, antelope, elk, etc)
Otherwise my kid would love to hunt with a 16” AR
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You could be just a barrel, and bolt away from making that a reality.
 
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#102
Ex E6 said:
Ask Yourself this question ; Will your daughter likely continue hunting ( she's in the precarious age bracket ) and if so will she be hunting anything other than deer or larger game ?.
IF yes , then 6.5 or Gas gun .308 will serve a specific purpose . I own several and like 6.5 most anything and in capable hands is even Moose effective . Scandinavian Moose aren't as large as North American Moose ,about 2/3's size . However unless she's gonna hunt Bear or game larger than deer on a regular basis ,I'd not go .308 .

It's also note worthy when folks tell you 6.5 will do Moose and use Scandinavian Countries as reference ,please remember 98 % are taken inside 100 meters . Having been in that part of the world ,a huge clearing might be 200-300 meters across ,otherwise it's FORREST CENTRAL and shots of 40 meters isn't uncommon .
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Kind of like northeast Texas, where I hunt. Mostly dense woods and your best kill zone is usually overlooking a creek or some fallen trees at less than 100 yards. Farthest distance I have ranged for line of sight was 225 yards.

I agree, others have had success with 6.5 CM and it took a few shots. And sometimes bigger bullets took more than one shot. the general theory is that greater diameter equals more damage but really, from my limited understanding, bullet performance is more important than impact energy. That is why I care about impact velocity being enough for a round to fully petal.

It may also depend on targets. There is a reason some people shoot elk and moose with monolithic copper. Reminiscent of an FMJ, they tend to produce an exit wound. The exit wound helps in lung deflation, exsanguination, and the resultant blood trail that is easier to see.

I have read the big game hunting book written by Elmer Keith. (He was the K in the .333 OKH.) He liked very much the .35 Whelen. His belief was also to make a big hole to ensure lots of damage to heart and lungs. And he has shot in a short distance and knows he hit the animal. And the animal still disappeared, not knowing if it expired or somehow survived.

I think, too, the young lady is growing up and physically more capable of handling bigger and faster bullets. So, the original choices offered, I would try to encourage her to get the 6.5 PRC. But if not limited to those choices, then go with the 7 PRC.

But I might not be one to listen to. I have a .308 that likes Federal Fusion 165 gr. Let the hate begin.

To quote Justin Furstenfeld from Blue October, "hate me today. Hate me tomorrow. Hate me for all things I didn't do for you."
 
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#103
How about some love for the 7-08 for the young lady.
Less recoil than a .308, more energy and frontal area than a 6.5 CM and 6.5 Grendel.
Important things are to practice and use good projectiles that fly good in the rifle.
I have 3 6.5 Grendels, 3 X 6.5CM's and a 6CM and the 6 CM is the only rifle I haven't killed deer or antelope with - yet.
 
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#104
TheBigCountry said:
You STILL havnt invited me

That’s the issue

View attachment 8536318
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I don’t have any deer
IMG_7250.jpeg
 
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#105
Ok guys 98% sold on 6.5 cm. The real answer is who knows what she will do or hunt. Would you pick a 6.5 PRC for more versatility? Or would you just get a kitty kat 6.5 cm and get her a bigger rifle if needed? Again for reference she shoots an 18" Ruger American predator Gen 1 with a radial brake currently. No prob but wants a break after about 10 rounds.
 
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#106
snowplow said:
Ok guys 98% sold on 6.5 cm. The real answer is who knows what she will do or hunt. Would you pick a 6.5 PRC for more versatility? Or would you just get a kitty kat 6.5 cm and get her a bigger rifle if needed? Again for reference she shoots an 18" Ruger American predator Gen 1 with a radial brake currently. No prob but wants a break after about 10 rounds.
Click to expand...
6.5cm is a perfect choice.
 
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#107
snowplow said:
Ok guys 98% sold on 6.5 cm. The real answer is who knows what she will do or hunt. Would you pick a 6.5 PRC for more versatility? Or would you just get a kitty kat 6.5 cm and get her a bigger rifle if needed? Again for reference she shoots an 18" Ruger American predator Gen 1 with a radial brake currently. No prob but wants a break after about 10 rounds.
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Wants a break after 10 rounds? Go 6.5CM or 6CM and get a suppressor if it's legal for you. Hell, isn't the 6.5PRC just a 6.5CM with 200 more MV? Now the max terminally effective range of the bullet will be 700 yards instead of 850 or whatever. It makes no functional difference outside of like 0.1 MRAD more for wind holds.
 
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#108
snowplow said:
Ok guys 98% sold on 6.5 cm. The real answer is who knows what she will do or hunt. Would you pick a 6.5 PRC for more versatility? Or would you just get a kitty kat 6.5 cm and get her a bigger rifle if needed? Again for reference she shoots an 18" Ruger American predator Gen 1 with a radial brake currently. No prob but wants a break after about 10 rounds.
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That is also a good choice. Per the video I linked in. And I have seen another one where the target was elk at a farther distance with 6 mm CM.

So, 6.5 CM should do well. Again, I like 7s and larger but it is not the diameter that matters, it is the bullet performance and that depends on the bullet response at a given impact velocity.

She could hunt anything from feral hog (Chad at Texas Predator Hunting has been favoring the 6 ARC in an AR-15 platform) to elk and moose, as been shown.

And the nice thing about 6.5 CM is the minimal recoil. In practice and in hunting there will be less muzzle flip and that allows you to keep glass on target more easily. I have noticed that about my 7 PRC. I have still have cheek on riser, eye in the eyebox, but I may have moved an inch or two off after the shot broke.

I know I have been non-committal but really, the gun you shoot the best is going to be the right one. For example. no need to get a .338 LM just because you can shoot a car engine with it. We are talking about hide that is at most 3 mm thick or less and not steel.
 
#110
snowplow said:
Ok guys 98% sold on 6.5 cm. The real answer is who knows what she will do or hunt. Would you pick a 6.5 PRC for more versatility? Or would you just get a kitty kat 6.5 cm and get her a bigger rifle if needed? Again for reference she shoots an 18" Ruger American predator Gen 1 with a radial brake currently. No prob but wants a break after about 10 rounds.
Click to expand...

Great round.
Should work dandy for her for a LONG time.
My 12 yr old shoots a heavier 6.5 for target shooting.
Shot another just under 8 lbs a week ago and worked great on a mtn mule deer doe.

100% trust it for an elk round too.
Making her a 16.5” barrel so it is easier to hunt suppressed 🤷‍♂️
 
#111
supercorndogs said:
You could be just a barrel, and bolt away from making that a reality.
Click to expand...

She really loves shooting “dad’s” rifle for hunting right now.

Her rem 700 switch barrel is heavy at 14.5 lbs for mtn hunts at age 12…..

Really seems to like the 6.5 creed and I already load for it…..

See above, and next year she will have a shorter barrel with can, run a 123 bullet, and is all fired up to get in better shape and hunt harder. She has the bug….. 😎

Supposed to be out now, but got sick. Was all fired up to go, but breathing just sitting sounds like a steam engine. Wheezes and a nasty junky cough.
 
#116
One last thought l just had. The Ruger American comes with a radial brake. (Not the most effective) Should l get the PRC for her then just upgrade to a really good brake? Do you think that would bring the recoil down to creedmoor levels? Then it might be best of both worlds.
 
#117
I think you're insistence on getting a magnum for your daughter is way off base.
The 308 makes her pause after ten rounds.
The 6.5PRC burns more powder and goes much faster than the 308.

Shooting an unpleasant rifle is the quickest way to get her to quit shooting.



Buy he what SHE NEEDS, vs what YOU WANT.
 
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#118
Mike Casselton said:
I think you're insistence on getting a magnum for your daughter is way off base.
The 308 makes her pause after ten rounds.
The 6.5PRC burns more powder and goes much faster than the 308.

Shooting an unpleasant rifle is the quickest way to get her to quit shooting.



Buy he what SHE NEEDS, vs what YOU WANT.
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1730636040418.gif


I was in WalMart last night and they had oodles of 243

I’d be getting her a 243 and calling it a day.
 
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#119
I like the 6.5cm. It's slow enough it doest damage meat like the fast 6s.

I like my 280 becuase 7mm high bc bullets vs wind. But the bigger that bullet gets. The more recoil.

My friends older brother killed so many elk with his Mauser re-barreled in 243.

A good brake will make the PRC have less recoil than the 6.5cm. At the cost of needing double hearing protection to be safe for your ears. Although some allege hearing damage from such noise can happen through your skull. So maybe ear pro and a motorcycle helmet. 🤣🤣🤣
 
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#120
I didn't read all the comments, but I'd look at the question differently. Buy your daughter her first favorite rifle. Deer hunting here can be accomplished by almost any cartridge, but other games have more specific caliber preferences. If she is going to shoot a lot, she might look to get into the shooting sports like PRS type, NRL Hunter type, and other moderate/long range pursuits. These games lean towards low recoil/spot your miss calibers. Some hunter matches have a power factor that limits you on the low end, so it comes back to 6.5 creed. Our area matches aren't restricted, so Id choose something in the 6mm family.
 
#122
My vote would be a .270. Load it up with Nosler 160 AB @ 2900 for anything that walks. Shoot varmits with the hornady 110 V max @ 3400 fps. Reduce 110/130/150 gr bullets down to 1800fps for 6lbs of recoil for smaller kids. Find a box of win .270 130 grs about anywhere. Even full blown 270 loads are only around 18/19 fb of recoil. Ez to reload. Not a tack driver but a solid hunting rifle. JMHO
 
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#123
If she needs a break after about 10 shots, then she's not enjoying the 308. I lean to what's the smallest least recoiling round that will get the job done. Figure out what's the typical range most of her shots will be, 100-150y - a 223/556 will work with the proper bullet, 150-300y - 6.5 Grendel, 6ARC will work, 300y+ 6CM, 6GT, 243 no need to get the rifle you want for her to hunt with it. Get what she's going to enjoy to shoot more than 10 rounds at a time.
 
#124
@snowplow I would definitely listen to some of what is being said here.

Get a 6.5 creed (not prc) and get a 30 cal suppressor. That way the can can be shared between both guns. Cans are legal for hunting as well. Brakes work for recoil reduction but they induce bad habits more. Suppressors make everything more pleasant.

Exceptions to legality. Owning a suppressor is illegal in California, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, and Rhode Island. You cannot use a suppressor to hunt in Connecticut.
 
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#125
Mike Casselton said:
I think you're insistence on getting a magnum for your daughter is way off base.
The 308 makes her pause after ten rounds.
The 6.5PRC burns more powder and goes much faster than the 308.

Shooting an unpleasant rifle is the quickest way to get her to quit shooting.



Buy he what SHE NEEDS, vs what YOU WANT.
Click to expand...
I don't want a PRC. I don't actually want a CM either. If I was buying her what I wanted I would buy a 270. I haven't been thinking of the PRC as a Magnum round. I looked into the recoil levels and from what I found it basically looks like the PRC recoils like a 308. So Apples to apples with what she has been shooting well. Seemed well within reason.

LeftyJason said:
@snowplow I would definitely listen to some of what is being said here.

Get a 6.5 creed (not prc) and get a 30 cal suppressor. That way the can can be shared between both guns. Cans are legal for hunting as well. Brakes work for recoil reduction but they induce bad habits more. Suppressors make everything more pleasant.

Exceptions to legality. Owning a suppressor is illegal in California, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, and Rhode Island. You cannot use a suppressor to hunt in Connecticut.
Click to expand...
I have one.

Thanks folks, I'll buy a 6.5 Creedmoor.
 
#126
snowplow said:
Ok guys 98% sold on 6.5 cm. The real answer is who knows what she will do or hunt. Would you pick a 6.5 PRC for more versatility? Or would you just get a kitty kat 6.5 cm and get her a bigger rifle if needed? Again for reference she shoots an 18" Ruger American predator Gen 1 with a radial brake currently. No prob but wants a break after about 10 rounds.
Click to expand...

NO . Based upon what I'm reading , your daughter already has .308 and that's good for 92% of all North American Game .

So shooting more and enjoyably is gonna transpire with lessor recoil ,Agreed ?. 6.5CM . When and IF that great Elk hunt happens ,she can revert back to the .308 ,IF hunting open areas exceeding 300-350 yd. . If not use the 6.5 CM 153.5 & or 155 Gr. Berger bullets and at 300 yd. elevate 7.5" or so and windage accordingly GOOD TO GO for Elk or under size game . Dead is Dead excessive meat mashing isn't necessary or even preferred .

Ballistically rule of thumb ( whoever came up with these cliche's or rules I've Not a clue and everything is variable ! ) 1500 Ft. lb. at expected yardage for humane Elk death and 6.5 with heavier proper hunting bullet WILL DO JUST THAT outwards of 0-400 Yd. .

Hunting shouldn't be considered LRS , ethical distances within the ability of the Rifles capability and of it's operator MUST be adhered too . I've seen some real assclowns in various States pull some real shit while hunting Game animals , either convincing themselves or friends they're David Tubbs or the next Lester Bruno . I've also come across dead animal carcasses ,which weren't shot where they died or properly placed shots . Makes one wonder just what some of the yahoo's out there are thinking .

Christ , It isn't like we hunters don't have an unfair advantage now ; Scopes ,Thermal ,Ranging ,glassing ,ballistics calculators and Sub. MOA hardware ,Not to mention superior BULLETS . Attention everyone " The Stalking is really part of the hunting experience ".

This was NOT directed at You nor your daughter or anyone else in particular on this forum . I was hunting today and witnessed some real Bullshit . It's a shame or a really good thing , I didn't have access to TAR & FEATHERS :cautious:
 
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#127
skytrooper67 said:
My vote would be a .270. Load it up with Nosler 160 AB @ 2900 for anything that walks. Shoot varmits with the hornady 110 V max @ 3400 fps. Reduce 110/130/150 gr bullets down to 1800fps for 6lbs of recoil for smaller kids. Find a box of win .270 130 grs about anywhere. Even full blown 270 loads are only around 18/19 fb of recoil. Ez to reload. Not a tack driver but a solid hunting rifle. JMHO
Click to expand...
I agree. I had excellent results with 140 grain bullets and I had superb results with 90 grain bthp that were around 3500 fps. I wouldn’t hesitate to shoot anything in North America with a 270 and the recoil is very easy compared to 308-especially 308 in a very light framed ruger American
 
#128
Ex E6 said:
Ballistically rule of thumb ( whoever came up with these cliche's or rules I've Not a clue and everything is variable ! ) 1500 Ft. lb. at expected yardage for humane Elk death and 6.5 with heavier proper hunting bullet WILL DO JUST THAT outwards of 0-400 Yd. .
Click to expand...
Actually, I have read that 1500 ft-lbs for elk from the Colorado guidelines for hunting elk. Someone, somewhere, had a good day and backtracked his good load and calculated 1500.

For me, it is not so much about impact energy as it is impact velocity and bullet performance. Is it moving fast enough with a bullet designed to open and do the job?

For example, the Hornady Precision Hunter 175 gr ELD-X in 7 PRC. The back of the box shows 1800 fps. I emailed tech support and they pointed out that the petals start to open at 1600 fps. 1800 is a safer guarantee. Although, one could simply to 2000 fps. But more important than just the velocity is how does the bullet operate at speed?

That is why some people prefer the monolithic copper. Outfitter CX 160 gr and the like. The open a certain way and may not be the fastest but often do produce an exit wound. This can be important, especially on shots past 100 yards or so. The animal can run a long way in a short amount of time. But a good blood trail makes it easier to find them.
 
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#129
A .243 was always a bang flop with any halfway decent hit. I didn't quit hunting with that rifle ( a model 70 push feed) until the throat burned and it started throwing the first round 2" high at 100 yds. 100 grain Hornady or Sierra boat tailed bullets never failed to be a quick kill out to verified 500 yards. IF this is only for deer, there is no deer running off after a solid hit. I'm calling internet BS on those rumors after at least a couple dozen deer kills with one. That said a 308 would be plenty if looking at other species, as would a 6.5 CM. Magnums aren't needed for any deer unless your ranges will exceed 500 yards for starters. A low cost round that will be perpetually available is a no brainer. 243, 6.5 CM and 308 all hit all needed marks. My two teen girls shoot 700 Remington ADL's tweaked with good triggers and simple vortex hunting scopes. My oldest could ring 12" plates to 400-500 with regularity with that setup and the youngest is on her way there.
 
#131
Woodlanddude said:
A .243 was always a bang flop with any halfway decent hit. I didn't quit hunting with that rifle ( a model 70 push feed) until the throat burned and it started throwing the first round 2" high at 100 yds. 100 grain Hornady or Sierra boat tailed bullets never failed to be a quick kill out to verified 500 yards. IF this is only for deer, there is no deer running off after a solid hit. I'm calling internet BS on those rumors after at least a couple dozen deer kills with one. That said a 308 would be plenty if looking at other species, as would a 6.5 CM. Magnums aren't needed for any deer unless your ranges will exceed 500 yards for starters. A low cost round that will be perpetually available is a no brainer. 243, 6.5 CM and 308 all hit all needed marks. My two teen girls shoot 700 Remington ADL's tweaked with good triggers and simple vortex hunting scopes. My oldest could ring 12" plates to 400-500 with regularity with that setup and the youngest is on her way there.
Click to expand...

Didn't get a picture of the heart but took the top half of it off. Ran for 20seconds. Since it was recorded we could determine. Another was 15seconds for the same wound. 6cm. 103gr ELDX

They are not my videos to share, otherwise I'd post them.

IMG_6930.jpg
 
#132
Ronws said:
Actually, I have read that 1500 ft-lbs for elk from the Colorado guidelines for hunting elk. Someone, somewhere, had a good day and backtracked his good load and calculated 1500.

For me, it is not so much about impact energy as it is impact velocity and bullet performance. Is it moving fast enough with a bullet designed to open and do the job?

For example, the Hornady Precision Hunter 175 gr ELD-X in 7 PRC. The back of the box shows 1800 fps. I emailed tech support and they pointed out that the petals start to open at 1600 fps. 1800 is a safer guarantee. Although, one could simply to 2000 fps. But more important than just the velocity is how does the bullet operate at speed?

That is why some people prefer the monolithic copper. Outfitter CX 160 gr and the like. The open a certain way and may not be the fastest but often do produce an exit wound. This can be important, especially on shots past 100 yards or so. The animal can run a long way in a short amount of time. But a good blood trail makes it easier to find them.
Click to expand...

First and foremost is SHOT PLACEMENT . Using a bullet adequate for the job at hand . Softer skinned animals need 14-20" penetration with an expanding bullet , designed to open optimally at minim impact velocity . Necessary as range increases bullet MUST perform and expand as it should . So bullets which expand reliably at say 1800 -2K fps, should always be a consideration .

MY criteria is pretty simple ,Use as heavy a bullet as caliber allows for largest animal one is shooting ,which can be driven the fastest .

6.5 CM 153 Gr.- 155 Gr. for Elk within 400 Yd. . Mule Deer 130-143 again within 400 Yd. Yes one could extend it but clean kills are the point ,
 
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#134
Ima
Ronws said:
Kind of like northeast Texas, where I hunt. Mostly dense woods and your best kill zone is usually overlooking a creek or some fallen trees at less than 100 yards. Farthest distance I have ranged for line of sight was 225 yards.

I agree, others have had success with 6.5 CM and it took a few shots. And sometimes bigger bullets took more than one shot. the general theory is that greater diameter equals more damage but really, from my limited understanding, bullet performance is more important than impact energy. That is why I care about impact velocity being enough for a round to fully petal.

It may also depend on targets. There is a reason some people shoot elk and moose with monolithic copper. Reminiscent of an FMJ, they tend to produce an exit wound. The exit wound helps in lung deflation, exsanguination, and the resultant blood trail that is easier to see.

I have read the big game hunting book written by Elmer Keith. (He was the K in the .333 OKH.) He liked very much the .35 Whelen. His belief was also to make a big hole to ensure lots of damage to heart and lungs. And he has shot in a short distance and knows he hit the animal. And the animal still disappeared, not knowing if it expired or somehow survived.

I think, too, the young lady is growing up and physically more capable of handling bigger and faster bullets. So, the original choices offered, I would try to encourage her to get the 6.5 PRC. But if not limited to those choices, then go with the 7 PRC.

But I might not be one to listen to. I have a .308 that likes Federal Fusion 165 gr. Let the hate begin.

To quote Justin Furstenfeld from Blue October, "hate me today. Hate me tomorrow. Hate me for all things I didn't do for you."
Click to expand...
Texas hunters are just shitty hunters and shooters. Dog sized deer from inside 300 yards needing a magnum. L O Fucking L.
 
#135
DeathBeforeDismount said:
What is with all the fudds and Chad's using way overkill shit to hunt deer? I mean for fucks sake...it's a light skinned easy to kill animal. Inside 300 yards .223 is more than adequate. Anything more than a .243 is complete overkill. 6 arc is about the sweet spot. Using a .308 or a PRC is nothing but a waste of meat. Unnessirary recoil does not make young shooters better hunters and shooters. In fact it does the opposite.
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Respectfully 6.5 Grendel is the sweet spot
 
#137
pangris said:
Respectfully 6.5 Grendel is the sweet spot
Click to expand...

I like the grendel. My kid has one, but having a little extra range is handy some times.

It's a great rifle but around here it seems like it's either sub-100yds or 400-600yds shots. Terrain plays a huge part. Sometimes you can get close, sometimes you can't without pushing them.
 
#138
From a flight time and retained energy standpoint, I doubt I'd shoot a deer past 300 yards.

That, and these are the simultaneous views north, south, and east out of one of my stands.
 

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#139
pangris said:
Woah woah woah Captain Generalization, you're covering a lot of ground there
Click to expand...
He’s Captain Irony, but whatever. In this case he’s mostly right. Where he messed up in in under-generalizing. As a rule, it is hunters (not specifically Texas hunters) that are shitty hunters and shooters.
 
#140
pangris said:
From a flight time and retained energy standpoint
Click to expand...
For time of flight I get it, though 300 vs 400 yards with a 6.5CM is 0.37 vs 0.51 TOF at least from my short hunting barrel. Far as the energy things goes I guess that's been rehashed in here plenty but energy isn't what makes bullets work. Or at the very least it's not a useful thing to look at to predict terminal performance.
 
#142
My hunting notes…

Subsonic 22lr with a 40gr round nose will pass through the entire chest cavity, puncturing the lungs, and killing the deer.

If magnum ruins too much meat then you suck at shot placement.

Neck shots usually work really good.
 
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#143
NateVA said:
For time of flight I get it, though 300 vs 400 yards with a 6.5CM is 0.37 vs 0.51 TOF at least from my short hunting barrel. Far as the energy things goes I guess that's been rehashed in here plenty but energy isn't what makes bullets work. Or at the very least it's not a useful thing to look at to predict terminal performance.
Click to expand...
Perhaps velocity would have been a better word, but I believe absolutely that velocity north of X depending on your bullet and target species matters.

We hunt in an area where it is cleared, or heavy brush. If an animal makes it into the brush, there are going to be a lot of thorns and ticks in your immediate future.
 
#144
pangris said:
Perhaps velocity would have been a better word, but I believe absolutely that velocity north of X depending on your bullet and target species matters.

We hunt in an area where it is cleared, or heavy brush. If an animal makes it into the brush, there are going to be a lot of thorns and ticks in your immediate future.
Click to expand...
Sounds like south Texas. If it's not drt, you're going to have a fun time tracking.
 
#145
snowplow said:
Hey guys. I want to get my 17 year old daughter a Ruger American Gen 2 for Christmas. She's hunted and shot with me for years. She's no problem but pretty proficient. Right now she's been shooting a Gen 1 American 16" .308 with a spiral break.

I'm stuck between a .270, 6.5 PRC, and 6.5 CM.

My boy shoots a 270, my dad and father in law did too but l personally have no real experience with them. For some reason this sounds good to me.

Everyone else in my world says go 6.5 CM and l have to admit it's prob perfect on paper. She's tough but a pretty small framed girl.

The 6.5 PRC seems perfect but not sure about price and long term availability of ammo.

What would you guys do?

Also would you buy now when available or wait for a Christmas deal and hope they are available?
Click to expand...
Now this is a big motivation for me to teach my daughter shooting, she's a very big fan of hunting but I'd prefer taking her elder brother instead.

Yes they are available and Id prefer to buy upfront before Christmas.
 
#147
DeathBeforeDismount said:
Ima
Texas hunters are just shitty hunters and shooters. Dog sized deer from inside 300 yards needing a magnum. L O Fucking L.
Click to expand...
Trying to be friendly regardless. In your haste to post, you dropped something. So, I have retrieved it for you and I know you are in need. Anyone with the name deathbeforedysentery has enough challenges in life.

1730847570502.jpeg
 
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