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So over the Contrived and Repetitive Nature of Stages today
- Thread starter Lowlight
- Start date
Its a lot of work to run these things with 0 help. I'm a "new" shooter and I ended up being an RO and they are always begging for ROs. Setup/Tear down. People put a lot of hard work in and we got a lot of Sallies on the sidelines back seat driving. I couldn't get dick for help when RO during match to prepare even though I got last place (I'm just not very fast). All the top guys were "busy"
Yes I will bag on PRS for what it needs to improve. Still better than NOT shooting. Except for self-entitled "gimme a prize and I don't wanna have to do dick but show up" people. They suck.
One of the lower shooters got a new rifle in our match and one of the organizers got a new rifle as well. 0 issue with that. Hell I got a certificate for a discount and I basically was last place. And a hat! I'd still show up for free (In fact our finale I was supposed to shoot free as an RO, but i still paid--range time ain't free yo)
Yes I will bag on PRS for what it needs to improve. Still better than NOT shooting. Except for self-entitled "gimme a prize and I don't wanna have to do dick but show up" people. They suck.
One of the lower shooters got a new rifle in our match and one of the organizers got a new rifle as well. 0 issue with that. Hell I got a certificate for a discount and I basically was last place. And a hat! I'd still show up for free (In fact our finale I was supposed to shoot free as an RO, but i still paid--range time ain't free yo)
It was International Palma Matches where the host nation provided all the ammo because they wanted a level playing field and it’s a PIA to get ammo to certain places
Frank I quit shooting the matches when they went in the heavy non field equipment way. I coined the phrase IPSC with a sniper rifle. I have no problem with either it’s just not what I want to do
I miss the old field courses but I understand why the PRS has become more popular
I think what we miss is the older type training matches you, Jacob and Whittington used to put on. Of course they became less attended for awhile because the people doing them for training were mostly on two way ranges. Maybe it’s time to do more of them? Of course I am too broken to drag my butt around one of those courses but would help
I miss the old field courses but I understand why the PRS has become more popular
I think what we miss is the older type training matches you, Jacob and Whittington used to put on. Of course they became less attended for awhile because the people doing them for training were mostly on two way ranges. Maybe it’s time to do more of them? Of course I am too broken to drag my butt around one of those courses but would help
Oh yeah....its a common problem, everyone bitches. No one helps. Lots of entitled people out there who think matches (of all kinds) just "happen"
Worst are the USPSA wannabe GMs who think they don't ahve to paste or reset.
I know thats off topic, but something I've noticed in the shooting sports. Everyone is gung ho until they ask for voluteers! I notice for about 40 shooters every week its the same 5 guys setting up. hmmmmmm
I may "bag" on the MD but I'm actually really nice "Have you thought about this......." On the hide I have to set my asshole level up about 10 notches.
Worst are the USPSA wannabe GMs who think they don't ahve to paste or reset.
I know thats off topic, but something I've noticed in the shooting sports. Everyone is gung ho until they ask for voluteers! I notice for about 40 shooters every week its the same 5 guys setting up. hmmmmmm
I may "bag" on the MD but I'm actually really nice "Have you thought about this......." On the hide I have to set my asshole level up about 10 notches.
Yup, way the fuck up north. Even well subscribed matches in the Vancouver area and the pacific NW struggle to break 40 shooters. This fall I’ve basically moved past the match travel comp game. No fun, too expensive in time&$$, results are irrelevant really. I will probably get a buddy or 2 to team up for a couple cool interesting matches a year I think. NRL Hunter style mostly. Regular PRS style we will squad with whoever the least experienced shooters are if we have a choice.
I shot PRS for almost 10 years most of it locally and regionally with a bit of national level too. This year I lost all interest. It became too much like a job to me. Spend a bunch of time in the reloading room, run to the range 2-4 times a month for live fire practice, do a bunch of dry fire practice in between. All of that for 20-40 minutes of actually shooting at a match.
Then add in buying barrels, brass, bullets powder and primers.
I have no ill will towards PRS and consider Ken a friend. I hope it grows and he can make a good living off of it for his family. Same goes for my local MDs, I hope it keeps growing and expanding.
It's just not for me anymore.
Then add in buying barrels, brass, bullets powder and primers.
I have no ill will towards PRS and consider Ken a friend. I hope it grows and he can make a good living off of it for his family. Same goes for my local MDs, I hope it keeps growing and expanding.
It's just not for me anymore.
That's the way I was with skeet... except I had been doing it over 40 years (NSSA competition less than half that). After the debacle of my last match - culminating in a twice-repeated "jam" on the last stage caused by leaving the 
chamber flag in (no points match so they let me reshoot), I was about ready to quit.
The problem is, I can't shoot for fun anymore. I crave the environment and "rush" of competition.
It has been my honor to have had two Vietnam-era fighter pilots in my life. Neither of them flew again after retirement. I asked one of them - he now rests in Arlington - why. He said pretty succinctly: after flying fast movers in combat, toodling around behind a fan had absolutely zero appeal.
In no way am I comparing combat to recreational shooting. I'm just saying there's a kick to competition that just doesn't happen with shooting for fun.
I do wish there were more seniors-friendly matches to be had (not so much "rifle yoga"). But I'm glad, now into my 70s, that I can still shoot PRS-style matches at all... I'm good with mid-pack finishes.
And my skeet gun is still in the safe. I hear it every so often.
chamber flag in (no points match so they let me reshoot), I was about ready to quit.The problem is, I can't shoot for fun anymore. I crave the environment and "rush" of competition.
It has been my honor to have had two Vietnam-era fighter pilots in my life. Neither of them flew again after retirement. I asked one of them - he now rests in Arlington - why. He said pretty succinctly: after flying fast movers in combat, toodling around behind a fan had absolutely zero appeal.
In no way am I comparing combat to recreational shooting. I'm just saying there's a kick to competition that just doesn't happen with shooting for fun.
I do wish there were more seniors-friendly matches to be had (not so much "rifle yoga"). But I'm glad, now into my 70s, that I can still shoot PRS-style matches at all... I'm good with mid-pack finishes.
And my skeet gun is still in the safe. I hear it every so often.
I think this is a typical story.
People play the game, get heavily invested, and after a few years (5-10), get burnt out and pursue other things.
I started shooting PRS about 10-11 years ago, and I don't know if a single person in the top 20 from those days even competes anymore. Maybe even top 50 or more nationally. Lots of turnover.
It's all about why you shoot the sport. If you like it then keep shooting. Nothing says you have to go to every match and spend thousands on the game. I have been shooting the sport for 21 years now and still love to shoot matches. That said I have dialed it back from when I used to shoot a lot like you mentioned and then some. I used to fly around the country to go to matches as there weren't regional matches and ended up getting Delta Silver medallion one year with over 25,000 miles flown just going to matches. LOL
Take a year off and then start coming back in and shooting some local/regional and have fun. Don't worry about points and finales and BS like that. Hang with friends and enjoy it again.
I wonder if there is less burnout with the “buy once cry once” mindset than with the “buy, test, upgrade, repeat, learn from tinkering” mindset.
The former seems like it is more of a competition journey while the latter seems like it is more of an equipment journey.
The former seems to have one stressor, competition, while the latter has competition plus tinkering as a stressor.
Knowing which mindset you are in, and knowing when to switch, is likely of value for longevity.
Like my unfortunate tagline says, “If it ain’t broke, you can’t resist.”
-Stan
The former seems like it is more of a competition journey while the latter seems like it is more of an equipment journey.
The former seems to have one stressor, competition, while the latter has competition plus tinkering as a stressor.
Knowing which mindset you are in, and knowing when to switch, is likely of value for longevity.
Like my unfortunate tagline says, “If it ain’t broke, you can’t resist.”
-Stan
For me it was time and having a young family. Cost was another part.
3-4 hours round trip to go to the range 3-4 times per month. I stopped keeping track of time spent in the reloading room. Travel time, overnight time if it was an out of state match.
Cost was another factor. Though the gear chase probably kept me in it a little longer.
I might jump back in but probably in NRLH or Guardian matches. But for now I'll just golf with my old man and my crew from my firehouse.
3-4 hours round trip to go to the range 3-4 times per month. I stopped keeping track of time spent in the reloading room. Travel time, overnight time if it was an out of state match.
Cost was another factor. Though the gear chase probably kept me in it a little longer.
I might jump back in but probably in NRLH or Guardian matches. But for now I'll just golf with my old man and my crew from my firehouse.
Probably why they have crowds show up just to watch and TV shows dedicated for it. It has national pride and the government's self interest to motivate them to do something. Having the populace actively training and competing to build marksmen that have practical rapid ability to engage threats for national defense is a bonus for any country.
Sometimes I wonder if we here in the states would be more like that if we didn't bury our heads in professional sports. I think this is very engaging. But then I wouldn't be caught dead in a football stadium or watch ESPN.
It’s like the difference in IDPA vs USPSA. IDPA is supposed to be real world scenarios of self defense, USPSA is a game played with badass pistols.
I’ve shot thousands of rounds in each, the conclusion I came to was USPSA is a game played by sportsman and I enjoy the shit out of it, IDPA is a very rules heavy stickler oriented scenario driven course with grumpy old dudes shooting it and they manage to suck the joy out of everything in the room.
I personally prefer the game aspect, there is always something for everyone.
I’ve shot thousands of rounds in each, the conclusion I came to was USPSA is a game played by sportsman and I enjoy the shit out of it, IDPA is a very rules heavy stickler oriented scenario driven course with grumpy old dudes shooting it and they manage to suck the joy out of everything in the room.
I personally prefer the game aspect, there is always something for everyone.
But them there’s the guy who practicers like all get out and finished 100 out of 100. some have inborn skill, some don’t some are aged old men who should have retired 20 years ago but can’t, (because spending a few months on the couch watching ophra while waiting to die is about as much fun to some as getting a tooth drilled by the dentist without novocaine.)
Some like to participate and work like hell at not because they expect to be at the top of the podium but because it’s fun to practice and fun to be around the fellows and ladies at the matches.
Take your pick. But I can assure everyone here, I’m a certified competitor for the Red Lantern award, not that I aspire to finish last but because, it’s fun to shoot some steel. At my age and physical ability, just getting to hit steel is a WIN!
let me add. @Rob01, none of what I wrote has anything to do with prize tables. I still think prize tables are a cheap way to award winnings to those who won. Given em Cash, that’s what people really need.
Some like to participate and work like hell at not because they expect to be at the top of the podium but because it’s fun to practice and fun to be around the fellows and ladies at the matches.
Take your pick. But I can assure everyone here, I’m a certified competitor for the Red Lantern award, not that I aspire to finish last but because, it’s fun to shoot some steel. At my age and physical ability, just getting to hit steel is a WIN!
let me add. @Rob01, none of what I wrote has anything to do with prize tables. I still think prize tables are a cheap way to award winnings to those who won. Given em Cash, that’s what people really need.
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“Look, if I spend $20k on gear and match prep, and prioritize preparing to play a game over spending time with my loved ones, if I win I should be first to choose a prize I could have bought five of from the prize table.”
-Someone Apparently
-Someone Apparently
What have you won that you couldn’t buy outright using reprogrammed match / match preparation funds?
-Stan
-Stan
I get the principal, I just don’t value it, or participation trophies.
External validation isn’t on my list of things to chase.
-Stan
External validation isn’t on my list of things to chase.
-Stan
That's fine and you don't have to compete at all if you don't want or compete and not care how you do but if someone puts all that time and money into trying to win then they should get the top prize for winning. Period. Anything else is participation trophies.
My point is that many of the high level competitors complaining about not getting to walk the table early do so while stating that it is their right, because the sport is expensive and they wouldn’t be able to compete as much if they couldn’t sell their table prizes. Because, you know, it’s not expensive for anyone else.
Table order should be up to the company supplying the prize and the match director. If a company wants their prize to go to the biggest whining douche nozzle, well they supplied the prize. If the match director wants the table walked in reverse order of match placement, and in reverse order of PRS rank, it’s his match.
If you can’t afford the game without selling prizes, GBPSE…
To the specific question, the only thing of note that I’ve gotten from a match was a 50% cert for Leupold optics- and that was for ROing the event. I shot local events where the only prize table was the provided lunch.
Table order should be up to the company supplying the prize and the match director. If a company wants their prize to go to the biggest whining douche nozzle, well they supplied the prize. If the match director wants the table walked in reverse order of match placement, and in reverse order of PRS rank, it’s his match.
If you can’t afford the game without selling prizes, GBPSE…
To the specific question, the only thing of note that I’ve gotten from a match was a 50% cert for Leupold optics- and that was for ROing the event. I shot local events where the only prize table was the provided lunch.
No, the rings are analogous to trophies. I’ve seen a ton of pics of guy and ladies hoisting rifle match trophies. Hell, I have a season trophy here somewhere. You want a reward for your hard work? Grab that 1st place trophy.
Nobody selling the Lombardi trophy, or the Stanley Cup, or whatever they call the World Series trophy.
Hell, second place in those games don’t even get a reach around, and they walk the table next to last.
Nobody selling the Lombardi trophy, or the Stanley Cup, or whatever they call the World Series trophy.
Hell, second place in those games don’t even get a reach around, and they walk the table next to last.
It's a hobby, not a sport.
Personally I don't understand why some think that companies should subsidize their hobbies through prize table donations. The entitlement there is kind of wild.
Personally I don't understand why some think that companies should subsidize their hobbies through prize table donations. The entitlement there is kind of wild.
I agree. I said this before, get rid of prize tables altogether. The fuckin things cause more drama than the Days of Our Lives for fuck sakes. Trophies for the winners and move on. The sense of entitlement from some of the people out there is laughable.
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Man, that first vid started cool. And then devolved into extreme shilling. 
Phil V is interesting as always.
Phil V is interesting as always.
Having put on and directed matches and seen shooting sports come and go, the longest lived ones have pros with industry sponsorship. (Or were legitimate national or Olympic sports) The flash in the Pan sorts, were strictly amateur. Proud of it they were….were is the key word.
People who are pro or semi-pro need cash to survive. Prizes are a cheap way to give cash when cash is needed to pay for the gas home. (Very few self serve gas stations accept a nice shooting bag or scope base for payment)
People who are pro or semi-pro need cash to survive. Prizes are a cheap way to give cash when cash is needed to pay for the gas home. (Very few self serve gas stations accept a nice shooting bag or scope base for payment)
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Did you watch the first video all the way through or just stop when they started talking about gear. After talking about the rifles, optics, ammo, or kestrel, they go on to talk about their experience training for and shoot the GAP Grind. The last half of the video is really the best part.
But I'm not sure how them saying stuff like "we used Sig Cross rifles, which aren't perfect and aren't really PRS match rifles, but they fit our budget and were good enough to get us started" counts as extreme shilling.
So, rewatched the first vid with minimal fast-fwd.
Hopefully this sinks in.
I do think the raw info they provide is good, but man! The shilling!
- Sig provided the guns
- Leupold provided their instructors…
- …and scopes
- Calls out that Josh w/Sig beat people with most expensive guns. Sort of gratuitous…didn’t need to mention that in such a specific manner. Could’ve said, “Josh did very well and felt the gun didn’t hold him back.” Or simply, “Josh placed 45th.” Or whatever place he got.
- Hornady provided 50% of the ammo
- They DID buy their own Kestrels, bravo!
- Promo for 100 concepts
- Promo for Steele NV
- Promo for SDI (Sonoran Desert Institute)
- Promo for Modlite (All this before 10 minutes are up)
- MDT provided the levels…
- …and probably the Cyke bipods (although I could be wrong about the bipods. Don’t feel like rewatching that thing just for that.)
- Mentions the bag brands, but I give them a pass as he didn’t say they were provided
- Drives traffic to MDT for rifle cleaning info (& Jim’s Goon (Good?) Life…I’ll give ‘em a pass for the latter). But MDT, cleaning info???
Hopefully this sinks in.
I do think the raw info they provide is good, but man! The shilling!
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I understand supporting the companies that provide expensive stuff. The problem is, that means only the very wealthy are honest in their reviews.
Not necessarily. You probably won’t be a full-time reviewer and quit your day job, though.
But I understand the economic pressure. I don’t mind some minor advertisements. Take someone like Garand Thumb or 9hole Reviews. They both hit you once at the beginning; 9hole then does an intermission suggestion to support their Patreon. They both might praise the person/company who loaned the gun (but 9hole almost always owns the firearms).
GT might make an ammo sponsor joke when they waste ammo. GT might have an ad in the middle.
That’s about it.
The first video I commented on is constantly not only smacking you over the head with promos, but also semi-fawning over their sponsors.
Lots of people don’t realize just how much shilling is happening right in front of your eyes. They’ve been exposed to so much of it in their life that is just washes over.
But make no mistake…marketing/advertising works. The person who says, “Doesn’t work on me,” is a total mark.
But I understand the economic pressure. I don’t mind some minor advertisements. Take someone like Garand Thumb or 9hole Reviews. They both hit you once at the beginning; 9hole then does an intermission suggestion to support their Patreon. They both might praise the person/company who loaned the gun (but 9hole almost always owns the firearms).
GT might make an ammo sponsor joke when they waste ammo. GT might have an ad in the middle.
That’s about it.
The first video I commented on is constantly not only smacking you over the head with promos, but also semi-fawning over their sponsors.
Lots of people don’t realize just how much shilling is happening right in front of your eyes. They’ve been exposed to so much of it in their life that is just washes over.
But make no mistake…marketing/advertising works. The person who says, “Doesn’t work on me,” is a total mark.
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