So over the Contrived and Repetitive Nature of Stages today

[Emerson0311]

You're in BC? I can see how it could be hard to have the same number of shooters as somewhere like the southern or eastern US.

Yup, way the fuck up north. Even well subscribed matches in the Vancouver area and the pacific NW struggle to break 40 shooters. This fall I’ve basically moved past the match travel comp game. No fun, too expensive in time&$$, results are irrelevant really. I will probably get a buddy or 2 to team up for a couple cool interesting matches a year I think. NRL Hunter style mostly. Regular PRS style we will squad with whoever the least experienced shooters are if we have a choice.

 

[kthomas]

Yup, way the fuck up north. Even well subscribed matches in the Vancouver area and the pacific NW struggle to break 40 shooters. This fall I’ve basically moved past the match travel comp game. No fun, too expensive in time&$$, results are irrelevant really. I will probably get a buddy or 2 to team up for a couple cool interesting matches a year I think. NRL Hunter style mostly. Regular PRS style we will squad with whoever the least experienced shooters are if we have a choice.

Be honest, you got tired of getting beat by Jerry and his Rem 783s

 

[Emerson0311]

Be honest, you got tired of getting beat by Jerry and his Rem 783s

Jerry is no joke. I almost bought a 783 is an auction the other day.

 

[Mormegil87]

I shot PRS for almost 10 years most of it locally and regionally with a bit of national level too. This year I lost all interest. It became too much like a job to me. Spend a bunch of time in the reloading room, run to the range 2-4 times a month for live fire practice, do a bunch of dry fire practice in between. All of that for 20-40 minutes of actually shooting at a match.

Then add in buying barrels, brass, bullets powder and primers.

I have no ill will towards PRS and consider Ken a friend. I hope it grows and he can make a good living off of it for his family. Same goes for my local MDs, I hope it keeps growing and expanding.

It's just not for me anymore.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

I shot PRS for almost 10 years most of it locally and regionally with a bit of national level too. This year I lost all interest. It became too much like a job to me. Spend a bunch of time in the reloading room, run to the range 2-4 times a month for live fire practice, do a bunch of dry fire practice in between. All of that for 20-40 minutes of actually shooting at a match.

Then add in buying barrels, brass, bullets powder and primers.

I have no ill will towards PRS and consider Ken a friend. I hope it grows and he can make a good living off of it for his family. Same goes for my local MDs, I hope it keeps growing and expanding.

It's just not for me anymore.

That's the way I was with skeet... except I had been doing it over 40 years (NSSA competition less than half that). After the debacle of my last match - culminating in a twice-repeated "jam" on the last stage caused by leaving the chamber flag in (no points match so they let me reshoot), I was about ready to quit.

The problem is, I can't shoot for fun anymore. I crave the environment and "rush" of competition.

It has been my honor to have had two Vietnam-era fighter pilots in my life. Neither of them flew again after retirement. I asked one of them - he now rests in Arlington - why. He said pretty succinctly: after flying fast movers in combat, toodling around behind a fan had absolutely zero appeal.

In no way am I comparing combat to recreational shooting. I'm just saying there's a kick to competition that just doesn't happen with shooting for fun.

I do wish there were more seniors-friendly matches to be had (not so much "rifle yoga"). But I'm glad, now into my 70s, that I can still shoot PRS-style matches at all... I'm good with mid-pack finishes.

And my skeet gun is still in the safe. I hear it every so often.

 

[kthomas]

I shot PRS for almost 10 years most of it locally and regionally with a bit of national level too. This year I lost all interest. It became too much like a job to me. Spend a bunch of time in the reloading room, run to the range 2-4 times a month for live fire practice, do a bunch of dry fire practice in between. All of that for 20-40 minutes of actually shooting at a match.

Then add in buying barrels, brass, bullets powder and primers.

I have no ill will towards PRS and consider Ken a friend. I hope it grows and he can make a good living off of it for his family. Same goes for my local MDs, I hope it keeps growing and expanding.

It's just not for me anymore.

I think this is a typical story.

People play the game, get heavily invested, and after a few years (5-10), get burnt out and pursue other things.

I started shooting PRS about 10-11 years ago, and I don't know if a single person in the top 20 from those days even competes anymore. Maybe even top 50 or more nationally. Lots of turnover.

 

[Rob01]

I shot PRS for almost 10 years most of it locally and regionally with a bit of national level too. This year I lost all interest. It became too much like a job to me. Spend a bunch of time in the reloading room, run to the range 2-4 times a month for live fire practice, do a bunch of dry fire practice in between. All of that for 20-40 minutes of actually shooting at a match.

Then add in buying barrels, brass, bullets powder and primers.

I have no ill will towards PRS and consider Ken a friend. I hope it grows and he can make a good living off of it for his family. Same goes for my local MDs, I hope it keeps growing and expanding.

It's just not for me anymore.

It's all about why you shoot the sport. If you like it then keep shooting. Nothing says you have to go to every match and spend thousands on the game. I have been shooting the sport for 21 years now and still love to shoot matches. That said I have dialed it back from when I used to shoot a lot like you mentioned and then some. I used to fly around the country to go to matches as there weren't regional matches and ended up getting Delta Silver medallion one year with over 25,000 miles flown just going to matches. LOL

Take a year off and then start coming back in and shooting some local/regional and have fun. Don't worry about points and finales and BS like that. Hang with friends and enjoy it again.

 

[stanley_white]

I wonder if there is less burnout with the “buy once cry once” mindset than with the “buy, test, upgrade, repeat, learn from tinkering” mindset.

The former seems like it is more of a competition journey while the latter seems like it is more of an equipment journey.

The former seems to have one stressor, competition, while the latter has competition plus tinkering as a stressor.

Knowing which mindset you are in, and knowing when to switch, is likely of value for longevity.

Like my unfortunate tagline says, “If it ain’t broke, you can’t resist.”

-Stan

 

[Mormegil87]

For me it was time and having a young family. Cost was another part.

3-4 hours round trip to go to the range 3-4 times per month. I stopped keeping track of time spent in the reloading room. Travel time, overnight time if it was an out of state match.

Cost was another factor. Though the gear chase probably kept me in it a little longer.

I might jump back in but probably in NRLH or Guardian matches. But for now I'll just golf with my old man and my crew from my firehouse.

 

[Oldloser]

No offense. There's other shooting sports that are fun to watch. This game is two shooters side by side standing. On the command, drop and hit 3 uneven distance targets faster than the other guy. Winner moves on.


Jump to the 4:45 min mark unless you want to see the people who aren't too bored to come watch. At 4:45 you can watch the non boring shooting getting going. Here it's start in prone, rapid fire unknown distance shooting at a single target with rifles that don't use muzzle brakes and irons. Where semi auto mil shooters can compete right next to civilian bolt gun shooters. Multiple shooters on the line simultaneously. Most impacts in the short time span wins. Typically the bolt guns are faster.


No way they could implement some kind picture in picture for context in PRS/NRL/22 videos....its never been done. Nevermind this video being 10yrs old.

Biathlon type sports are much bigger in Europe due to the longevity of the sport and the pipeline - and combining with skiing and running. And 22 rifles are much easier to setup for.

 

[Oldloser]

Austin Buschman is the only person I know who has cleaned a 2 day. Others have cleaned a day of a 2 day match. However I hardly find the very top people cleaning a day of a match a justifiable reason to overhaul the PRS. That would be like changing the rules or Service Rifle because someone like Brandon Green, Ben Cleland and so on set another record and cleaned a whole 800 Agg, P100, and the list goes on.

And this was at CCC in Navasota in crappy conditions. Prentice has made it clear he wants matches that get lots of hits and caters to the majority of the shooters. That's why he sells out every time.

 

[DFOOSKING]

Biathlon type sports are much bigger in Europe due to the longevity of the sport and the pipeline - and combining with skiing and running. And 22 rifles are much easier to setup for.

Probably why they have crowds show up just to watch and TV shows dedicated for it. It has national pride and the government's self interest to motivate them to do something. Having the populace actively training and competing to build marksmen that have practical rapid ability to engage threats for national defense is a bonus for any country.

Sometimes I wonder if we here in the states would be more like that if we didn't bury our heads in professional sports. I think this is very engaging. But then I wouldn't be caught dead in a football stadium or watch ESPN.

 

[slodsm]

It’s like the difference in IDPA vs USPSA. IDPA is supposed to be real world scenarios of self defense, USPSA is a game played with badass pistols.

I’ve shot thousands of rounds in each, the conclusion I came to was USPSA is a game played by sportsman and I enjoy the shit out of it, IDPA is a very rules heavy stickler oriented scenario driven course with grumpy old dudes shooting it and they manage to suck the joy out of everything in the room.

I personally prefer the game aspect, there is always something for everyone.

 

[stanley_white]

Rules to perpetuate rules vs rules to ensure a safe and enjoyable experience.

-Stan

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

What about that guy that came in 6th and spent the time practicing and get a hat and the guy who doesn't put in any effort and comes in 99th out of 100 gets a new scope? MDs can do what they want but I think they should go to the table in their respective placement in the match.

But them there’s the guy who practicers like all get out and finished 100 out of 100. some have inborn skill, some don’t some are aged old men who should have retired 20 years ago but can’t, (because spending a few months on the couch watching ophra while waiting to die is about as much fun to some as getting a tooth drilled by the dentist without novocaine.)

Some like to participate and work like hell at not because they expect to be at the top of the podium but because it’s fun to practice and fun to be around the fellows and ladies at the matches.

Take your pick. But I can assure everyone here, I’m a certified competitor for the Red Lantern award, not that I aspire to finish last but because, it’s fun to shoot some steel. At my age and physical ability, just getting to hit steel is a WIN!

let me add. @Rob01, none of what I wrote has anything to do with prize tables. I still think prize tables are a cheap way to award winnings to those who won. Given em Cash, that’s what people really need.

 

[Rob01]

But them there’s the guy who practicers like all get out and finished 100 out of 100. some have inborn skill, some don’t some are aged old men who should have retired 20 years ago but can’t, (because spending a few months on the couch watching ophra while waiting to die is about as much fun to some as getting a tooth drilled by the dentist without novocaine.)

Some like to participate and work like hell at not because they expect to be at the top of the podium but because it’s fun to practice and fun to be around the fellows and ladies at the matches.

Take your pick. But I can assure everyone here, I’m a certified competitor for the Red Lantern award, not that I aspire to finish last but because, it’s fun to shoot some steel. At my age and physical ability, just getting to hit steel is a WIN!

And all those people should go to the table in the order of their finish.

ETA at your addition, then why did you quote my post which is specifically about prize tables?

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

And all those people should go to the table in the order of their finish.

ETA at your addition, then why did you quote my post which is specifically about prize tables?

Because I messed up.

 

[stanley_white]

“Look, if I spend $20k on gear and match prep, and prioritize preparing to play a game over spending time with my loved ones, if I win I should be first to choose a prize I could have bought five of from the prize table.”

-Someone Apparently

 

[hlee]

“Look, if I spend $20k on gear and match prep, and prioritize preparing to play a game over spending time with my loved ones, if I win I should be first to choose a prize I could have bought five of from the prize table that I’m going to sell to help pay for my hobby. Because I deserve to have someone else pay for my hobby because this sport is expensive.”

-Someone Apparently

Fixed.

 

[Rob01]

“Look, if I spend $20k on gear and match prep, and prioritize preparing to play a game over spending time with my loved ones, if I win I should be first to choose a prize I could have bought five of from the prize table.”

-Someone Apparently

Actually anyone who is not into participation trophies. Not about the cost but the principal but I know some don't get it.

 

[stanley_white]

Fixed.

What have you won that you couldn’t buy outright using reprogrammed match / match preparation funds?

-Stan

 

[stanley_white]

Actually anyone who is not into participation trophies. Not about the cost but the principal but I know some don't get it.

I get the principal, I just don’t value it, or participation trophies.

External validation isn’t on my list of things to chase.

-Stan

 

[Rob01]

I get the principal, I just don’t value it, or participation trophies.

External validation isn’t on my list of things to chase.

-Stan

That's fine and you don't have to compete at all if you don't want or compete and not care how you do but if someone puts all that time and money into trying to win then they should get the top prize for winning. Period. Anything else is participation trophies.

 

[stanley_white]

"Debt is temporary, pride is forever."

-Apparently Someone

 

[Rob01]

"Debt is temporary, pride is forever."

-Apparently Someone

You can post up all the stupid fake quotes you want but doesn’t change the situation.

 

[hlee]

What have you won that you couldn’t buy outright using reprogrammed match / match preparation funds?

-Stan

My point is that many of the high level competitors complaining about not getting to walk the table early do so while stating that it is their right, because the sport is expensive and they wouldn’t be able to compete as much if they couldn’t sell their table prizes. Because, you know, it’s not expensive for anyone else.

Table order should be up to the company supplying the prize and the match director. If a company wants their prize to go to the biggest whining douche nozzle, well they supplied the prize. If the match director wants the table walked in reverse order of match placement, and in reverse order of PRS rank, it’s his match.

If you can’t afford the game without selling prizes, GBPSE…

To the specific question, the only thing of note that I’ve gotten from a match was a 50% cert for Leupold optics- and that was for ROing the event. I shot local events where the only prize table was the provided lunch.

 

[hlee]

That's fine and you don't have to compete at all if you don't want or compete and not care how you do but if someone puts all that time and money into trying to win then they should get the top prize for winning. Period. Anything else is participation trophies.

Super Bowl champs should get the first round draft picks. Teams that place last should pick last…

 

[stanley_white]

My point is that many of the high level competitors complaining about not getting to walk the table early do so while stating that it is their right, because the sport is expensive and they wouldn’t be able to compete as much if they couldn’t sell their table prizes. Because, you know, it’s not expensive for anyone else.

Table order should be up to the company supplying the prize and the match director. If a company wants their prize to go to the biggest whining douche nozzle, well they supplied the prize. If the match director wants the table walked in reverse order of match placement, and in reverse order of PRS rank, it’s his match.

If you can’t afford the game without selling prizes, GBPSE…

To the specific question, the only thing of note that I’ve gotten from a match was a 50% cert for Leupold optics- and that was for ROing the event. I shot local events where the only prize table was the provided lunch.

Understood.

Thank you.

-Stan

 

[Rob01]

Super Bowl champs should get the first round draft picks. Teams that place last should pick last…

Yup they shouldn’t get rings either. They should raffle them off to all the losing teams so they can get what they sucked too much to actually win. Lol

 

[hlee]

Yup they shouldn’t get rings either. They should raffle them off to all the losing teams so they can get what they sucked too much to actually win. Lol

No, the rings are analogous to trophies. I’ve seen a ton of pics of guy and ladies hoisting rifle match trophies. Hell, I have a season trophy here somewhere. You want a reward for your hard work? Grab that 1st place trophy.

Nobody selling the Lombardi trophy, or the Stanley Cup, or whatever they call the World Series trophy.

Hell, second place in those games don’t even get a reach around, and they walk the table next to last.

 

[kthomas]

It's a hobby, not a sport.

Personally I don't understand why some think that companies should subsidize their hobbies through prize table donations. The entitlement there is kind of wild.

 

[Oldloser]

Probably why they have crowds show up just to watch and TV shows dedicated for it. It has national pride and the government's self interest to motivate them to do something. Having the populace actively training and competing to build marksmen that have practical rapid ability to engage threats for national defense is a bonus for any country.

Sometimes I wonder if we here in the states would be more like that if we didn't bury our heads in professional sports. I think this is very engaging. But then I wouldn't be caught dead in a football stadium or watch ESPN.

Well said. Look up Rutli Meadow.

https://www.myswitzerland.com/en-us/destinations/ruetli-ruetli-meadow/

We need a return to shooting teams in high school. The yew man tradition still lives in our national soul.

 

[anon]

The first discipline I shot was 3P Smallbore at TAMU a long time ago. Our youngest son shot 3P Air Rifle in high school. Then he went on to qualify Expert at Pendelton during basic.

 

[Rodney65]

I personally love the movement, mag changes, loading loose rounds, getting wedged into a corner and being forced to switch shoulders

 

[RRW]

It's a hobby, not a sport.

Personally I don't understand why some think that companies should subsidize their hobbies through prize table donations. The entitlement there is kind of wild.

I agree. I said this before, get rid of prize tables altogether. The fuckin things cause more drama than the Days of Our Lives for fuck sakes. Trophies for the winners and move on. The sense of entitlement from some of the people out there is laughable.

 

[Tx_Aggie]

I agree. I said this before, get rid of prize tables altogether. The fuckin things cause more drama than the Days of Our Lives for fuck sakes. Trophies for the winners and move on. The sense of entitlement from some of the people out there is laughable.

Do you shoot the matches you're complaining about having prize tables? Or just contribute to the drama on the Hide?

 

[clefairy]

Just get out there and shoot. No one that makes stuff happens actually reads this thread. Only the drama bros. And like lash, I love drama.

 

[carbonbased]

Just get out there and shoot. No one that makes stuff happens actually reads this thread. Only the drama bros. And like lash, I love drama.

Man, that first vid started cool. And then devolved into extreme shilling.

Phil V is interesting as always.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

Do you shoot the matches you're complaining about having prize tables? Or just contribute to the drama on the Hide?

Having put on and directed matches and seen shooting sports come and go, the longest lived ones have pros with industry sponsorship. (Or were legitimate national or Olympic sports) The flash in the Pan sorts, were strictly amateur. Proud of it they were….were is the key word.

People who are pro or semi-pro need cash to survive. Prizes are a cheap way to give cash when cash is needed to pay for the gas home. (Very few self serve gas stations accept a nice shooting bag or scope base for payment)

 

[Tx_Aggie]

Man, that first vid started cool. And then devolved into extreme shilling.

Phil V is interesting as always.

Did you watch the first video all the way through or just stop when they started talking about gear. After talking about the rifles, optics, ammo, or kestrel, they go on to talk about their experience training for and shoot the GAP Grind. The last half of the video is really the best part.

But I'm not sure how them saying stuff like "we used Sig Cross rifles, which aren't perfect and aren't really PRS match rifles, but they fit our budget and were good enough to get us started" counts as extreme shilling.

 

[carbonbased]

Did you watch the first video all the way through or just stop when they started talking about gear. After talking about the rifles, optics, ammo, or kestrel, they go on to talk about their experience training for and shoot the GAP Grind. The last half of the video is really the best part.

But I'm not sure how them saying stuff like "we used Sig Cross rifles, which aren't perfect and aren't really PRS match rifles, but they fit our budget and were good enough to get us started" counts as extreme shilling.

So, rewatched the first vid with minimal fast-fwd.

1. Sig provided the guns
2. Leupold provided their instructors…
3. …and scopes
4. Calls out that Josh w/Sig beat people with most expensive guns. Sort of gratuitous…didn’t need to mention that in such a specific manner. Could’ve said, “Josh did very well and felt the gun didn’t hold him back.” Or simply, “Josh placed 45th.” Or whatever place he got.
5. Hornady provided 50% of the ammo
6. They DID buy their own Kestrels, bravo!
7. Promo for 100 concepts
8. Promo for Steele NV
9. Promo for SDI (Sonoran Desert Institute)
10. Promo for Modlite (All this before 10 minutes are up)
11. MDT provided the levels…
12. …and probably the Cyke bipods (although I could be wrong about the bipods. Don’t feel like rewatching that thing just for that.)
13. Mentions the bag brands, but I give them a pass as he didn’t say they were provided
14. Drives traffic to MDT for rifle cleaning info (& Jim’s Goon (Good?) Life…I’ll give ‘em a pass for the latter). But MDT, cleaning info???

Hopefully this sinks in.

I do think the raw info they provide is good, but man! The shilling!

 

[Emerson0311]

So, rewatched the first vid with minimal fast-fwd.

1. Sig provided the guns
2. Leupold provided their instructors…
3. …and scopes
4. Calls out that Josh w/Sig beat people with most expensive guns. Sort of gratuitous…didn’t need to mention that in such a specific manner. Could’ve said, “Josh did very well and felt the gun didn’t hold him back.” Or simply, “Josh placed 45th.” Or whatever place he got.
5. Hornady provided 50% of the ammo
6. They DID buy their own Kestrels, bravo!
7. Promo for 100 concepts
8. Promo for Steele NV
9. Promo for SDI (Sonoran Desert Institute)
10. Promo for Modlite (All this before 10 minutes are up)
11. MDT provided the levels…
12. …and probably the Cyke bipods (although I could be wrong about the bipods. Don’t feel like rewatching that thing just for that.)
13. Mentions the bag brands, but I give them a pass as he didn’t say they were provided
14. Drives traffic to MDT for cleaning info (& Jim’s Goon Life…I’ll give ‘em a pass for the latter). MDT, cleaning info???

Hopefully this sinks in.

I do think the raw info they provide is good, but man! The shilling!

I understand supporting the companies that provide expensive stuff. The problem is, that means only the very wealthy are honest in their reviews.

 

[carbonbased]

I understand supporting the companies that provide expensive stuff. The problem is, that means only the very wealthy are honest in their reviews.

Not necessarily. You probably won’t be a full-time reviewer and quit your day job, though.

But I understand the economic pressure. I don’t mind some minor advertisements. Take someone like Garand Thumb or 9hole Reviews. They both hit you once at the beginning; 9hole then does an intermission suggestion to support their Patreon. They both might praise the person/company who loaned the gun (but 9hole almost always owns the firearms).

GT might make an ammo sponsor joke when they waste ammo. GT might have an ad in the middle.

That’s about it.

The first video I commented on is constantly not only smacking you over the head with promos, but also semi-fawning over their sponsors.

Lots of people don’t realize just how much shilling is happening right in front of your eyes. They’ve been exposed to so much of it in their life that is just washes over.

But make no mistake…marketing/advertising works. The person who says, “Doesn’t work on me,” is a total mark.

 

[Tx_Aggie]

Not necessarily. You probably won’t be a full-time reviewer and quit your day job, though.

But I understand the economic pressure. I don’t mind some minor advertisements. Take someone like Garand Thumb or 9hole Reviews. They both hit you once at the beginning; 9hole then does an intermission suggestion to support their Patreon. They both might praise the person/company who loaned the gun (but 9hole almost always owns the firearms).

GT might make an ammo sponsor joke when they waste ammo. GT might have an ad in the middle.

That’s about it.

The first video I commented on is constantly not only smacking you over the head with promos, but also semi-fawning over their sponsors.

Lots of people don’t realize just how much shilling is happening right in front of your eyes. They’ve been exposed to so much of it in their life that is just washes over.

But make no mistake…marketing/advertising works. The person who says, “Doesn’t work on me,” is a total mark.

If something is free, there's a good chance that you as the person consuming it are actually the product. That's true of pretty much anything on YouTube, or any social media.

Considering that one of the main complaints in this thread has been that PRS doesn't do enough to promote itself to new shooters, a fun, fast paced and upbeat video from a successful youtube channel about the one event each year aimed specifically at getting new shooters involved in the PRS seems to fit the bill nicely.

Would you prefer they made a video about their experience without talking about any of the gear they used, or just without mentioning the name of the items & who manufactured them? Or maybe just only talk about the items they purchased and leave out any mention of stuff that was provided to them? Would you hold Frank to that same standard - no positive comments about any gear that was provided to him for review by someone? If it came out that the PRS comped their entries for the match should they then also refrain from discussing the event in a positive light, or at all?

The GAP Grind is a "Pro/Am" match where an experienced shooter works with a new shooter as a team to help them learn what PRS matches are all about, and to coach them throughout the event by providing assistance during and between stages, including calling corrections on the clock. Having an experienced shooter there to help you is literally the entire point of the event, and a requirement for participation.

For these guys to discuss their experience without mentioning the dudes who helped them would make no sense. If anything, I think they should've taken more time to specifically talk on camera with the guys who played "Pro" to their "Amateur," as the YouTuber's participation in the match would not have happened without them.

I missed the plug for SDI, and admit that it's super cringey, as that place really seems like nothing more than a scam intended to bilk veterans out of their GI Bill money.

 

[hlee]

If something is free, there's a good chance that you as the person consuming it are actually the product. That's true of pretty much anything on YouTube, or any social media.

Considering that one of the main complaints in this thread has been that PRS doesn't do enough to promote itself to new shooters, a fun, fast paced and upbeat video from a successful youtube channel about the one event each year aimed specifically at getting new shooters involved in the PRS seems to fit the bill nicely.

Would you prefer they made a video about their experience without talking about any of the gear they used, or just without mentioning the name of the items & who manufactured them? Or maybe just only talk about the items they purchased and leave out any mention of stuff that was provided to them? Would you hold Frank to that same standard - no positive comments about any gear that was provided to him for review by someone? If it came out that the PRS comped their entries for the match should they then also refrain from discussing the event in a positive light, or at all?

The GAP Grind is a "Pro/Am" match where an experienced shooter works with a new shooter as a team to help them learn what PRS matches are all about, and to coach them throughout the event by providing assistance during and between stages, including calling corrections on the clock. Having an experienced shooter there to help you is literally the entire point of the event, and a requirement for participation.

For these guys to discuss their experience without mentioning the dudes who helped them would make no sense. If anything, I think they should've taken more time to specifically talk on camera with the guys who played "Pro" to their "Amateur," as the YouTuber's participation in the match would not have happened without them.

I missed the plug for SDI, and admit that it's super cringey, as that place really seems like nothing more than a scam intended to bilk veterans out of their GI Bill money.

Remember, there are dudes that want to see feminine hygiene ads because targeted advertisement is too invasive…

 

[ma smith]

Considering that one of the main complaints in this thread has been that PRS doesn't do enough to promote itself to new shooters, a fun, fast paced and upbeat video from a successful youtube channel about the one event each year aimed specifically at getting new shooters involved in the PRS seems to fit the bill nicely.

This is a classic "base class" propaganda video which only fools and idiots believe.

 

[ma smith]

The only thing more contrived and repetive than PRS "stage design"... is "base class is a good idea for novices"...

 

[Tx_Aggie]

This is a classic "base class" propaganda video which only fools and idiots believe.

What does that even mean?

 

[Oldloser]

What does that even mean?

Same here. I'm wondering who has really shot any matches.

 

[carbonbased]

If something is free, there's a good chance that you as the person consuming it are actually the product. That's true of pretty much anything on YouTube, or any social media.

Pffffhhhh!!!

This is pretty massively obvious? C’mon man.

And add upon the fact that while watching a heavily shilled product vid, you are often still nailed with YT ads. You are still the product! Just 10x.

I mean, wtf is your argument??? 1x = 10x? One shouldn’t care about excessive shilling because you are already being used by YT?

I’m just commenting upon the shilling. Not on other motives, like trying to get others into the sport. Hell, I’m not in the sport.

The fact is, the more one shills (or promotes), the less trustworthy one comes across. This is undebatable.

I mean, you aren’t going to seriously debate that, are you?

It helps to imagine that you are in the live audience, next to the camera, and the hosts are talking directly to you. How would you feel about the hosts?

Even worse, now imagine the host is talking right to you in a personal conversation, saying the exact same things? Gross man, gross.

As I mentioned, there’s better and worse ways of promoting. Garand Thumb/9holes promote products much less offensively (and less) than that specific Dirty Civ video.

It helps to think about the word “shill.” Shilling is different than promoting.

The prototypical shill is a planted member of an audience that is loudly enthusiastic with whatever the host is saying/doing in order to whip the crowd into a frenzy.

Promotion bleeds into shilling if you do it wrong.