Thanks thats what i was wondering , i guess ill just hold off on getting one until they get that figured out . Shame as the various wind brackets were the main feature i liked about it.
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Garmin Foretrex 901 and the system
- Thread starter Ziloooo
- Start date
Yes but if it does not take the information from the furys ( inclination and angle of fire ) and compare it to the kestrel ( direction of wind ) then it may be easier to get good results , i would hope ideally it would populate w1 and w2 with max and avg wind speed so you can use that info to make an on the spot call
So how would this work , it would compensate for angle when it auto populates target data but i would need to read the angle reading off the fury display and manually enter it into the target data on the garmin ? And the garmin will already have direction of wind from the kestrel ? Because if thats it it does not sound too bad .
Also i really appreciate you taking the time to talk with me about this
I just went and tested it to make certain. I have misspoke and corrected my other post. The 901 gets the Range, Inclination, and DOF from the Fury 5000 when paired.So how would this work , it would compensate for angle when it auto populates target data but i would need to read the angle reading off the fury display and manually enter it into the target data on the garmin ? And the garmin will already have direction of wind from the kestrel ? Because if thats it it does not sound too bad .
Also i really appreciate you taking the time to talk with me about this
This is fantastic , so post pairing with a fury and a kestrel really no manual inputs besides changing target is required ? The only change is which device the solver is being processed on ?
I have a 901 and I really want to like this thing, but they need a method to bulk upload target data to target card dataset in the AB section of the Foretrex 901.
This thing is good, but it’s almost an 80% solution.
With a few tweaks. Such as data management from a phone app and/or a few customization items, it would be killer.
This thing is good, but it’s almost an 80% solution.
With a few tweaks. Such as data management from a phone app and/or a few customization items, it would be killer.
I may be sending mine back until it gets a few things worked out . I heard it can not handle multiple wind directions across multiple targets . Like if you have a 90 degree side wind at one target Even if the next target is 90 degrees to the left of that target it will still be given a 90 degree side wind . I really wanna love it and i hope it gets the kinks worked out . Unfortunately the place i ordered it from has an open box is no longer new policy so i cant really open and fiddle around with it .
I still think it’s good as a dope sheet and some other stuff, but it’s just not quite there esp for the price tag imo. You’re better off with a kestrel, LRF, and a dedicated GPS unit.
Phil said on a recent video that he's still using his and will post another video soon showing his workflow when using it. In case that's of interest to you.
Yeah i saw another shooting using one and absolutely loved the target card layout .
i did see that , and havent sent mine back yet . Im trying to figure out more about the workflow between it and LRF binos . I wouldnt mind using the kestrel seperatley as a weather station and manually entering wind right now im just trying to find out if it can handle different wind directions for different targets or if it assigns the same angle to all of them ( even though the targets may be 90 degrees apart )
bottom line is we need to be able to edit and upload the target card. I haven't checked this ,but does the live update work when you have the range card up?
Yes, you can press quick edit and toggle through each of the 10 targets on the target card. When one is highlighted, hit the LFR and it auto updates, then arrow to next, repeat, etc.
So how would this work , it would compensate for angle when it auto populates target data but i would need to read the angle reading off the fury display and manually enter it into the target data on the garmin ? And the garmin will already have direction of wind from the kestrel ? Because if thats it it does not sound too bad .
Also i really appreciate you taking the time to talk with me about this
I'm curious if you guys put this to the test yet?
Let me know if this scenario is possible with the foretrex 901
I'm at a Locate/Range/Engage match. I have a 901 on my wrist, Kestrel 5700 elite, and my Terrapin X all synced up. I update my enviormentals and lock them, then I point my Kestrel into the wind and capture the wind direction and speed (my wind capture is set on "change with DOF"). I have the Target card page displayed on the 901 with target 1 highlighted.
My stage time starts now. I have 4 targets to locate, range, and engage. I find target 1 and ping it with my terrapin x, then I scroll the 901 down to target 2 and ping target 2 and so on till I find all the targets. My direction of fire of the 4 targets is 90 degress from the furthest left to the furthest right.
My main question is. Will the wind direction change with the direction of fire my terrapin x captures for each target?
Yes,
It does everything you're saying and wanting, but there seems to be a glitch in the software of the Garmin. It will take all data from the LRF down the line on target card (range, DOF, inclination), but if you scroll back through any of those targets it resets your wind to the last DOF you recorded even though the DOF field does not change. It's kind of hard to explain, I might make a short video explaining it so hopefully Garmin can fix it with a firmware update.
If you simply do it as you explained without scrolling back through, it works as you said. If you exit target card screen for any reason, you're screwed too. If you re-open it, all the wind fields will be changed and wrong.
This is the biggest drawback for me so far.
I purchased a Foretrex 901 with AB a week or so ago, and despite being a "simpler" device than a Kestrel 5700, its not been the easiest introduction so far.
I have to say @DocUSMCRetired has been superb in the AB support department, whereas @Garmin have been lacking. I have yet to get any responses from Garmin on issues noted.
For the benefit of others, here are some things I didn't know before buying, but I wish I had:
- Getting identical outputs from the Garmin and a Kestrel is impossible.
The "rounding" of data is something I have experienced, even with all inputs and environmental identical. I know the differences are less than a click, but something in my engineering nature really bugs me about that. If I put the same mathematical sum into two different Casio calculators, I would expect the same result. So I still don't really get why AB on my Kestrel 5700 and the AB on my Foretrex 901 give different results.
- Target card
Unlike the Kestrel 5700 Elite with AB, that can hold up to 30 "sectors" (different target cards of up to 10 targets), the Garmin 901 Ballistic edition with AB can only hold a single target card. This renders the Garmin almost completely unusable for my needs in PRS style matches. With the kestrel I can input the whole COF the night before in the hotel, and save myself loads of time on the line inputting distances, that can be much more wisely spent on watching the wind or stage prep.
I get that when the Vectronix Vector X binos finally make it to the market in significant numbers, there should be the functionality to ping the targets one by one and fill the target card with distance, DOF and incline instantly.
But for now, given that the Kestrel is a far older design, I would have expected the Garmin to be able to keep up and enable more than one target card on the device.
- Environmental units of measurement within the AB section of the Garmin can not be changed. Temp is stuck in °F & Station pressure in HG. Perhaps not an issue in the US, but in the UK everything else is described in °C and Mb.
- The Garmin "Tempe" sensor only provides the Foretrex 901 with ambient temperature, you still need another separate means of reading the ambient station pressure and humidity. Disappointingly, this means you probably need to get those figures from a Kestrel or at least someone else on the firing line with a Kestrel. I know the readings aren't likely to swing significantly in the day, but still, at the price of the unit, I would hope it could take all these readings itself, or at least the additional $40 sensor could pick up more than just ambient temp.
- The Calypso Mini AB can provide Ambient temp, and Humidity as well as wind to the Garmin, but still not Ambient Station pressure. As yet I have not been able to get the Garmin and the Calypso Mini AB to work together to provide ballistic data for wind calls. I believe this connectivity may have been released in the update I am struggling to do.
- Garmin suggests that updates can be carried out wirelessly through their "Connect" or "Explore" app's. My experience has been that this is incorrect, the explore app just directs you to the connect app, and the connect app tries, but after 7 hours was still unable to fully push the update to the device. I know it can be done through a PC connection with Garmin Express, but why advertise that it can be done wirelessly, when it cannot.
- If you have a mobile connected to the Garmin, and one of the Garmin app's open on the mobile, if you switch off the Garmin on the device, it will immediately power back up and continue to do so until the app is closed on the mobile and connection severed. A bug no doubt, but as Garmin doesn't respond within a reasonable time frame, I wouldn't expect it to be fixed any time soon
- I have also noticed, that if a mobile app is connected to the Garmin, when changing target distances, you can only scroll 1 yard/meter at a time, instead of holding down to scroll by larger increments / more quickly. Doesn't sound like much hassle, but clicking down 950 times when I switch from Centrefire to Rimfire shooting is a PITA!
- The Garmin/AB synapse app can only send profiles created in the Synapse app to the Foretrex 901. It cannot pull profiles from the device to back them up.
- Currently there is no way to sync AB profiles across different brands of device. So if you have a fully trued profile on your Kestrel, you will have to go through the process on the Garmin from scratch.
On a separate note, does anyone know, can a Kestrel, paired with a Kestrel HUD, and the Calypso Mini AB, show live wind on a full target card with wind speed/direction data from the Calypso?
2. Target card
"There are several AB LRF devices that will do this. My Fury's would send range, DOF and inclination to the 901, but the connection was somewhat unreliable when the fury's went to sleep and I had to wake them back up. My vector X binos connection has been rock solid with the 901. There is a bug in the target card page of the Garmin. It will receive DOF, but deletes it when you select the next target. I believe Garmin has been working on a fix for this in a software update."
Long term my goal was to utilise the Vector X binos, but I am having a hard time securing a US set to be shipped to a friend in the USA. When I called EuroOptic they had a pre order list of over 200pcs. That is some demand!
The UK doesn't even have demo sets out to dealers yet.
3. Environmental units of measurement
"you can change them. 4th page from the map. SETUP/APPLIED BALLISTICS/INPUT UNITS: CHOOSE METRIC. You'll need to do the same with WIND UNITS if you want those KPH."
I will try that, thank you.
6. Updates
"The first time you update has to be done connected to the computer, after that it's wireless from the app."
Rgr, I have now downloaded Garmin Express and the update is processing right now. Its only a simple thing, but why dont Garmin say that the first update should be via PC connection only, and the app updates will work after, could have saved me hours of keeping the connection stable waiting for the update to slowly load on the app, only to fail.
10. AB Synapse
"You should be able to pull from kestrel to AB synapse app. Maybe I need to take another look, but I think that's how I loaded all my profiles."
I will give it a go. It was AB that told me it would work with Garmin devices only.
Thanks for taking the time to respond and for your help
"There are several AB LRF devices that will do this. My Fury's would send range, DOF and inclination to the 901, but the connection was somewhat unreliable when the fury's went to sleep and I had to wake them back up. My vector X binos connection has been rock solid with the 901. There is a bug in the target card page of the Garmin. It will receive DOF, but deletes it when you select the next target. I believe Garmin has been working on a fix for this in a software update."
Long term my goal was to utilise the Vector X binos, but I am having a hard time securing a US set to be shipped to a friend in the USA. When I called EuroOptic they had a pre order list of over 200pcs. That is some demand!
The UK doesn't even have demo sets out to dealers yet.
3. Environmental units of measurement
"you can change them. 4th page from the map. SETUP/APPLIED BALLISTICS/INPUT UNITS: CHOOSE METRIC. You'll need to do the same with WIND UNITS if you want those KPH."
I will try that, thank you.
6. Updates
"The first time you update has to be done connected to the computer, after that it's wireless from the app."
Rgr, I have now downloaded Garmin Express and the update is processing right now. Its only a simple thing, but why dont Garmin say that the first update should be via PC connection only, and the app updates will work after, could have saved me hours of keeping the connection stable waiting for the update to slowly load on the app, only to fail.
10. AB Synapse
"You should be able to pull from kestrel to AB synapse app. Maybe I need to take another look, but I think that's how I loaded all my profiles."
I will give it a go. It was AB that told me it would work with Garmin devices only.
Thanks for taking the time to respond and for your help
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@Hotshot001, below is some additional information that hasn't been address by others above.
4. The Garmin "Tempe" sensor only provides the Foretrex 901 with ambient temperature, you still need another separate means of reading the ambient station pressure and humidity. Disappointingly, this means you probably need to get those figures from a Kestrel or at least someone else on the firing line with a Kestrel. I know the readings aren't likely to swing significantly in the day, but still, at the price of the unit, I would hope it could take all these readings itself, or at least the additional $40 sensor could pick up more than just ambient temp.
The Foretrex 901 has a built-in pressure sensor. If you go to the ENVIRONMENT page and scroll down to AMB/STN PRESSURE and press ENTER you get the option to edit or USE CURRENT PRESSURE which will populate based on the built-in sensor.
5. The Calypso Mini AB can provide Ambient temp, and Humidity as well as wind to the Garmin, but still not Ambient Station pressure. As yet I have not been able to get the Garmin and the Calypso Mini AB to work together to provide ballistic data for wind calls. I believe this connectivity may have been released in the update I am struggling to do.
The Calypso Mini AB is not yet supported on the Foretrex 901. We plan to have that support by the end of this year.
7. If you have a mobile connected to the Garmin, and one of the Garmin app's open on the mobile, if you switch off the Garmin on the device, it will immediately power back up and continue to do so until the app is closed on the mobile and connection severed. A bug no doubt, but as Garmin doesn't respond within a reasonable time frame, I wouldn't expect it to be fixed any time soon.
I'm unable to reproduce this. Can you provide specific steps to reproduce to me via Private Message so we can determine what is going on and resolve this issue?
8. I have also noticed, that if a mobile app is connected to the Garmin, when changing target distances, you can only scroll 1 yard/meter at a time, instead of holding down to scroll by larger increments / more quickly. Doesn't sound like much hassle, but clicking down 950 times when I switch from Centrefire to Rimfire shooting is a PITA!
I'm also unable to reproduce this. Can you provide specific steps to reproduce to me via Private Message so we can determine what is going on and resolve this issue?
10. Currently there is no way to sync AB profiles across different brands of device. So if you have a fully trued profile on your Kestrel, you will have to go through the process on the Garmin from scratch.
While not a great solution, if you are just looking to get your existing profiles to the Foretrex for the first time you can do this by using the Profile Loader app from AB on a PC. It will copy Profiles from the Kestrel and allow you to send them to the Foretrex 901. If you use Zero Height on the Profile on your Kestrel you need to reverse the sign of that once you copy it to the Foretrex as there is a bug that causes that sign to flip on the Foretrex.
4. The Garmin "Tempe" sensor only provides the Foretrex 901 with ambient temperature, you still need another separate means of reading the ambient station pressure and humidity. Disappointingly, this means you probably need to get those figures from a Kestrel or at least someone else on the firing line with a Kestrel. I know the readings aren't likely to swing significantly in the day, but still, at the price of the unit, I would hope it could take all these readings itself, or at least the additional $40 sensor could pick up more than just ambient temp.
The Foretrex 901 has a built-in pressure sensor. If you go to the ENVIRONMENT page and scroll down to AMB/STN PRESSURE and press ENTER you get the option to edit or USE CURRENT PRESSURE which will populate based on the built-in sensor.
5. The Calypso Mini AB can provide Ambient temp, and Humidity as well as wind to the Garmin, but still not Ambient Station pressure. As yet I have not been able to get the Garmin and the Calypso Mini AB to work together to provide ballistic data for wind calls. I believe this connectivity may have been released in the update I am struggling to do.
The Calypso Mini AB is not yet supported on the Foretrex 901. We plan to have that support by the end of this year.
7. If you have a mobile connected to the Garmin, and one of the Garmin app's open on the mobile, if you switch off the Garmin on the device, it will immediately power back up and continue to do so until the app is closed on the mobile and connection severed. A bug no doubt, but as Garmin doesn't respond within a reasonable time frame, I wouldn't expect it to be fixed any time soon.
I'm unable to reproduce this. Can you provide specific steps to reproduce to me via Private Message so we can determine what is going on and resolve this issue?
8. I have also noticed, that if a mobile app is connected to the Garmin, when changing target distances, you can only scroll 1 yard/meter at a time, instead of holding down to scroll by larger increments / more quickly. Doesn't sound like much hassle, but clicking down 950 times when I switch from Centrefire to Rimfire shooting is a PITA!
I'm also unable to reproduce this. Can you provide specific steps to reproduce to me via Private Message so we can determine what is going on and resolve this issue?
10. Currently there is no way to sync AB profiles across different brands of device. So if you have a fully trued profile on your Kestrel, you will have to go through the process on the Garmin from scratch.
While not a great solution, if you are just looking to get your existing profiles to the Foretrex for the first time you can do this by using the Profile Loader app from AB on a PC. It will copy Profiles from the Kestrel and allow you to send them to the Foretrex 901. If you use Zero Height on the Profile on your Kestrel you need to reverse the sign of that once you copy it to the Foretrex as there is a bug that causes that sign to flip on the Foretrex.
I just bought a 901 for NRL Hunter style matches. I downloaded the latest firmware on both my 901 and my Terrapin X.
After a successful connection between my Terrapin X and 901. The only thing that gets sent from my LRF is the distance, no DOF or inclination.
Thoughts? @DocUSMCRetired @Garmin
Also, can the direction of wind change with the DOF? The wind direction stays the same on mine regardless of DOF changes.
Thanks
After a successful connection between my Terrapin X and 901. The only thing that gets sent from my LRF is the distance, no DOF or inclination.
Thoughts? @DocUSMCRetired @Garmin
Also, can the direction of wind change with the DOF? The wind direction stays the same on mine regardless of DOF changes.
Thanks
Doc is correct, with Terrapin X you only get range on the Garmin devices.
For your second question, you can change the Wind Mode under the ENVIRONMENT menu to choose from TRUE WIND DIRECTION (the actual wind direction is input and the Foretrex calculates the different between that and DOF to send to the solver, this is what you want) or RELATIVE TO DOF (the wind direction is always the same relative to DOF, this is the default as it's how the device used to work before TRUE WIND DIRECTION was added).
Well that's pretty disappointing, considering how it is advertised. But, Thanks for the wind direction instructions.
Connectivity to ballistic devices
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Got a software update this morning. Went to their website to see the update details, but only found last year's march update the most recent published.
It looks like they may have fixed some of the wind issues in target card. Only thing I can tell so far without taking them outside is that the wind direction shows up in "degrees" instead of "clock" when set to true wind direction.
I don't know about the terrapin, but SIG, Fury's and Vector X send range, direction and inclination.
It looks like they may have fixed some of the wind issues in target card. Only thing I can tell so far without taking them outside is that the wind direction shows up in "degrees" instead of "clock" when set to true wind direction.
I don't know about the terrapin, but SIG, Fury's and Vector X send range, direction and inclination.
What mode are you in on the Sigs? AB External?
Is your Foretrex on FW 2.11? https://www.garmin.com/en-US/software/express/windows/
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I just tested to make sure, and the 901 picked up the AB Calypso Mini, Leica Geovid Pro AB+, and the Sig Kilo 10K Gen 2.
Yes I have the latest 2.11 firmware. I tried both modes on my Sig kilo10k's, BDX elite and BDX external.
I have also tried connecting on the 901 under AB, Vectronix, and Other. It finds the kilo10k but won't connect with it after I select it on the 901. The screen just says CONNECTING for a long time.
I just tested this on my Foretrex 901 and it worked flawless with the Sig Kilo 10K Gen 2. Setup the range finder under Connect -> Applied Ballistics. Range Finder is in AB External Mode. FW 2.11 on the Foretrex 901.
Make sure you don't have either connected to anything else at the time. Make sure the BDX app is closed, and the Binos are not connected to another device (They can only pair to 1 at a time).
@docUSMC Since the update i cannot connect my kestrel elite to the 901. It picks up my vectors just fine, but only connects them under the applied ballistics menu on the 901, which i guess would be the same as the kestrel. Has me thinking I cannot have both connected at the same time.
Either way, with all other Bluetooth devices off, it still won't find or connect to my kestrel. I've tried it in both with the kestrel in device mode and PC/mobile mode. Before the 901 update they would connect under "other" on the 901 in pc/mobile mode.
Either way, with all other Bluetooth devices off, it still won't find or connect to my kestrel. I've tried it in both with the kestrel in device mode and PC/mobile mode. Before the 901 update they would connect under "other" on the 901 in pc/mobile mode.
They should all connect under AB.
- You can only pair 1 device at time.
- The Kestrel should be in Device mode. PC/Mobile is for phones.
- Sig Kilo 10K Gen 2 should connect under AB External Mode.
I took it outside with no phone or other electronics with me and I got to connect.
Thank you
It is sending the range and inclination. No direction of fire though. Is there a setting I may have off.
If you laser a half dozen targets, then send in a support ticket through the app immediately after while connected we can read the data and find out.
I don't know about the PLRF15C. But the PLRF25C BLE X 2 and PLRF25C X 3 Applied Ballistics models both work with the Garmin Foretrex 901 & Tactix 7s. The 701s have been discontinued and I am not certain they would be given any compatibility updates but that is just a guess and you would need to ask Garmin for confirmation.
For the PLRF15C you would need to send that request to Garmin, and I am not even sure the protocols for that are compatible. I would suggest starting here: https://support.garmin.com/en-US/
