The more I think about it, the more I think Sportsmen division is the PRS’s way of saying “hey, sit down and stfu, the adults are talking.” Guys complaining about not being competitive against gamer guns and mouse fart cartridges? Fine, here’s your division. Go wild.
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The Sportsman Division
- Thread starter Lowlight
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Seems like nothing more than a Trophy hunt. The ppl complaining about not using their current lite rifles previously but possibly shooting this division all but confirms it. You could shoot the lite rifle currently! In theory, you’ll hit the same number of targets as you will next year, but your misses won’t count as much based on a smaller division. Unless you just need a trophy, I just don’t understand this rationale.
They really dropped the ball by not having a sub 1500$ class that would make it cheaper to get new shooters involved. With having 3k+ setups, it’ll likely be the same competitors just using different rigs.
They really dropped the ball by not having a sub 1500$ class that would make it cheaper to get new shooters involved. With having 3k+ setups, it’ll likely be the same competitors just using different rigs.
I scored a fat goose egg in my first NRL long range match and barely broke 20 points in the next. It DOES take determination, but shooters don't need the system working against them.
White belts and black belts in the same division, anyone who disagrees is a pussy snowflake trophy hunter. That sounds pretty dumb to me.
Man I'll never understand that. God forbid you go get your ego checked and find out you have a LOT of room to improve.
So, what’s the difference in coming in 125th overall now vs 125th overall, but 8th in your division out of 15ppl?
Exactly. Especially when the gear requirements are different. Age classes are the same….
Well, depending on the MD, class and division winners “walk the table” before the prols.
I’m late to the party on this, and came here specifically for this thread.
PRS in its current state is a shitshow, but it’s the only shitshow around where I live that does one day matches. I can’t go to a bunch of two day hunter matches as I have some other familial responsibilities.
I love the idea of this class, but the entire thing from the ground up with all classes needs to be reworked.
They need weight limits in open and all the other classes. They need to actually define a good ruleset.
This sportsman’s class is cool, but with a 13 lbs rifle your gonna burn the fuck outta some barrels on 10 and 12 round stages.
PRS in its current state is a shitshow, but it’s the only shitshow around where I live that does one day matches. I can’t go to a bunch of two day hunter matches as I have some other familial responsibilities.
I love the idea of this class, but the entire thing from the ground up with all classes needs to be reworked.
They need weight limits in open and all the other classes. They need to actually define a good ruleset.
This sportsman’s class is cool, but with a 13 lbs rifle your gonna burn the fuck outta some barrels on 10 and 12 round stages.
Couple months ago there was a thread about an ideal prs optic.
Sportsman and weight limit only furthers my idea of an alpha tier optic like ZCO or Tangent doing a fixed mag FFP somewhere between 15-18. Almost Definitely lighter than a zoom scope. Already going to be dumping money into light weight actions, carbon stocks and barrels. Why not an alpha tier light weight fixed mag?
Sportsman and weight limit only furthers my idea of an alpha tier optic like ZCO or Tangent doing a fixed mag FFP somewhere between 15-18. Almost Definitely lighter than a zoom scope. Already going to be dumping money into light weight actions, carbon stocks and barrels. Why not an alpha tier light weight fixed mag?
I'll just drop this turd:
Everyone has their comments about new divisions and rules.
What I see is 100 guys show up and we can't get 10 guys to help. You wanna improve the sport? Get your ass involved. Especially you "Top Tier" guys who bitch about the rules lawyering. Waste my time yaking it up, gaming the stage before you shoot (as if you didn't have 9 other shooters to prepare) and don't lift a damn finger to help run a pad or score a stage or reset. We're not your fucking entertainment squad--I like to shoot too.
Everyone has their comments about new divisions and rules.
What I see is 100 guys show up and we can't get 10 guys to help. You wanna improve the sport? Get your ass involved. Especially you "Top Tier" guys who bitch about the rules lawyering. Waste my time yaking it up, gaming the stage before you shoot (as if you didn't have 9 other shooters to prepare) and don't lift a damn finger to help run a pad or score a stage or reset. We're not your fucking entertainment squad--I like to shoot too.
No difference at all. Just another division to stack the field with pro and semi-pro shooters. Just like production is now.
The 2024 rules for production, state:
2.3 Bolt Gun - Production Division
The PRS Production Division was created to encourage growth to our shooting community from outside our ranks by allowing shooters the opportunity to compete in PRS events without being disadvantaged due to custom equipment.
There is a contradiction between wanting to, "allow shooters the opportunity to compete in PRS events without being disadvantaged due to custom equipment", and the actual implementation of the division. The majority of competitors ARE NOT, "outside our ranks". They are seasoned pros and semi-pros. And if anyone thinks their "production" rifles are exactly like the standard offering to consumers, they should get their heads checked.
The PRS Pro and Semi-Pro classifications should be banned from competing in Production and Sportsman's divisions, period. That's how you,
1. attract new shooters
2. minimize their disadvantage
3. grow the community
4. execute the PRS Mission - To promote and grow the sport of competitive precision rifle shooting in a safe, fair, and practical manner for shooters of all skill levels and ages.
Everyone knows it is unfair and are unwilling to stop kissing the asses of pros and manufacturers. The natural progression of the hierarchy is being disrupted by greed and it is very unattractive.
Sponsors aren’t going to let their shooters get banned from their headline event…
I wouldn't read into it too much. I think efficiency is the real reason:
People will bitch no matter what. They don't want to hand hold, this way they can just tap the sign.
But if you did want to read into it... Stuff like 6cm & .243win make sense, but they probably want to avoid 6cm becoming the default gamer cartridge for Sportsman's.
For larger calibers:
1) I've seen 75 year olds show up to an NRL Hunter match with a duplex reticle on their BDL 7RM... You would see similar nonsense at PRS matches & as DBD suggested, they'd never be back.
2) FNGs not being able to spot misses & correct. It's bad enough with 6.5cm.
3) Match flow, wear & tear, etc. More energy = more downed plates, movers, broken poppers, etc.
Well then, match fees should be raised to cover the cost of less sponsorship. I'd certainly pay more for a guarantee of not having to compete in production against pros. The pros can still shoot in open class if it makes everyone feel better.
Well then, match fees should be raised to cover the cost of less sponsorship. I'd certainly pay more for a guarantee of not having to compete in production against pros. The pros can still shoot in open class if it makes everyone feel better.
Nothing “grows the sport” like making it more expensive. Lol Match fees have done nothing but go up and nothing to do with sponsors.
Well then, match fees should be raised to cover the cost of less sponsorship. I'd certainly pay more for a guarantee of not having to compete in production against pros. The pros can still shoot in open class if it makes everyone feel better.
You're seriously advocating for banning successful shooters from some classes just so that you don't have to shoot against them?
Somewhere, in a super secret PRS corporate bunker…
“How do we grow the sport?”
“We could make a concerted effort to solicit input from the shooters, all the way from the top national guys down to the newest shooter. And, use that input to make meaningful changes that both retain current shooters and attract those that haven’t yet made the jump.”
“Sounds like a lot of work. And, personally, I don’t want to talk to a bunch of whiney shooters. All they do is complain. What else you got?”
“Well, we could create an increasingly complex web of classifications and divisions, subdividing the shooters further and further, until they are only competing against themselves.”
“That’s gonna be a lot of trophies. I ain’t got that much room in the back of the pick up. Next?”
“Ok. Hear me out. Raise match fees.”
“Brilliant!”
Allegedly…
“How do we grow the sport?”
“We could make a concerted effort to solicit input from the shooters, all the way from the top national guys down to the newest shooter. And, use that input to make meaningful changes that both retain current shooters and attract those that haven’t yet made the jump.”
“Sounds like a lot of work. And, personally, I don’t want to talk to a bunch of whiney shooters. All they do is complain. What else you got?”
“Well, we could create an increasingly complex web of classifications and divisions, subdividing the shooters further and further, until they are only competing against themselves.”
“That’s gonna be a lot of trophies. I ain’t got that much room in the back of the pick up. Next?”
“Ok. Hear me out. Raise match fees.”
“Brilliant!”
Allegedly…
No. I'm suggesting banning pro shooters from divisions created to attract new shooters.
Since I'm self funded and have bought a dasher open gun, I'll be shooting open from here forward. No sense in going backwards now. My comments on this thread are from a new shooter perspective and how conflicted the rules and mission are. I'm still gonna compete against whoever shows up and be happy for living another day to be there. I absolutely love this sport and the people. I just don't think it is reasonable for a newbie to expect it to be completely fair.
He does have a point. The PRS claims these divisions are for newer shooters or people on a limited budget to make the sport more accessible in their own rules. If they came out and said the divisions exist so we make more money and make our sponsors happy, which is the truth, then fine. But don't pretend it's one thing and then lie. If it's a spade call it a spade.
And let's be honest...a guy who works for MPA winning nation matches with a "production" gun is terrible optics. Who is to say they aren't custom barrels or cherry picking barrels or any number of things that would be almost impossible to prove that make those guns no different than any custom open gun. Not saying that's happening but the probabiltly/possibility puts doubt and hurts the integrity of the whole division. He is a hell of a shooter and would kill it in open too, but the optics are the optics. The same way Matt Alwine got screwed out of the championship years ago because some bullshit rule interpretation while the Ruger shooter shooting a gun you couldnt even buy was gifted the win. I'm sure it had nothing to do with Ruger throwing tens of thousands of dollars at the PRS.
It's optics like this that gives the PRS a bad name. A strong leader would not even allow the possibility for the integrity of the sport and organization. I usually defend the organization in most things and overall it's a great community but there needs to be more self policing and people need to stop being scared to challenge and speak up. None of these people deserve royal treatment and they need to be called out.
Rookie category is the solution. Eligible if you have shot less than five registered PRS matches prior to the current season, something like that. So if you shot two matches over three years, then you're still a rookie. Once you hit five matches, your eligibility is revoked after the current season.
Yeah, Production isn't, and was never going to be, a "Beginners Only Division."
It should never have been marketed as or even hinted to be such a thing. It was always going to end up the way that it is, with sponsored shooters using production guns to help manufacturers market product, and that should've been clear to everyone involved (PRS mgmt & rules committee) at the beginning.
And that shit with Ruger a few years ago was shameful and handled badly.
To me the answer is to use shooter classification like every other shooting sport. PRS has tried to do this at the national level (as you're aware
) but fast tracking it in every region (and changing "unclassed" to "novice " or "rookie") would probably go a long way to making beginners feel successful sooner.USPSA would never ban Master & Grand Master shooters from Production, but they wouldn't need to because beginners shooting Production guns are usually classified as C or D class, and scored against their peers.
But really, any newer shooter who looks at folks like Keith, Matt, or Lauryl as a barrier to their own success, instead of as inspiration, has the wrong mindset and IMO is more likely to quit when things get hard than to focus on improving themselves and getting better.
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The only reason production exists is to sell more MPA and GAP rifles.
If actual real production rules were in place (minimum of like, 1000 units per year manufactured and 10k units lifetime) it wouldn't exist.
Production is basically a "limited" class.
Im still a fan of making sportsman limited by weight, powerfactor, and .473 boltface or smaller (limiting to short action cartridges here with a PF requirement that negates 6mm gamer cartridges).
Production should be a 1500 dollar rifle and max 1500 MSRP scope.
But whatever. Lets just oversaturate divisions and increase match fees, while driving more shooters away so it just dies out. I know plenty of places in the midwest that struggle to get 20 shooters on a nice day. This isn't going to improve stuff.
My wife’s RPR. 65 Creedmoor, 12 pounds 4 ounces. Built before the “Sportsman Division” was announced because Brenda wanted a lighter rifle. I shoot it occasionally and it really needs an FFP, MILRAD scope. Otherwise, I find the recoil to be manageable. Balance isn’t great and it is not easy to remain on target shooting off props. Shooting off a bench or mod prone, it’s nice. For competition, i would add a better brake and a different trigger.
I suppose I could use it in the new division.
Rather stick to this rifle, which balances easy and I shoot it ok.
To Quote George Gardner on this new division, “No matter what is done 1/4 are going to be unhappy”. From the post of his I read, I believe he was saying the board was solidly behind this effort.
I really don’t know the purpose of this Sportsman Division, whether it is to bring in new shooters or allow a crossover with NRL Hunters or whether its a way to give out more trophies.
One is for sure, ti sure has people talking. And that may be the real reason for this division.
I suppose I could use it in the new division.
Rather stick to this rifle, which balances easy and I shoot it ok.
To Quote George Gardner on this new division, “No matter what is done 1/4 are going to be unhappy”. From the post of his I read, I believe he was saying the board was solidly behind this effort.
I really don’t know the purpose of this Sportsman Division, whether it is to bring in new shooters or allow a crossover with NRL Hunters or whether its a way to give out more trophies.
One is for sure, ti sure has people talking. And that may be the real reason for this division.
You want to increase burden of administration for MDs? In a new division marketed towards novice shooters? Most of whom won't show up with a chrono and many of whom can't even tell you their bullet weight without double checking their box? How the hell is that smarter?
Very smart of PRS to just start with only 6.5cm. There are zero questions about compliance while the PRS tests the waters with a new division. If the PRS's position changes, it's easier to add than to subtract.
The board is made of match directors almost exclusively and they take the input of sponsors because money.
The problem is the shooters don't really have a voice in the rules committee.
So of course the MD's are happy with new divisions. If it gets 3-5 more people to their match, that means more money and profit for them. Helps to subsidize the rest of the their outlay. There is really no downside for them.
There really should be a council of say the top 5 shooters from each class, the MDs and the Sponsors so everyone has a voice at the table. At the end of the day its the shooters money who is funding all this stuff, so why not give them at least a seat at the table. A small group of the same people who have known each other forever and have similar views/goals is not good for the long term growth of the sport.
for a 60+ dollar one day match fee?
Yea, idgaf about their burden.
For a 2 day match that’s 250-400 bucks? Yea. Again, don’t give a flying fuck.
check the class winners. That’s like 3 per class. That’s easy as fuck.
Classification system would solve a lot of problems IMO. I can see how it’s demoralizing for new shooters when they’re literally competing against pros, but I say stop being a pussy and just shoot and have fun.Yeah, Production isn't, and was never going to be, a "Beginners Only Division."
It should never have been marketed as or even hinted to be such a thing. It was always going to end up the way that it is, with sponsored shooters using production guns to help manufacturers market product, and that should've been clear to everyone involved (PRS mgmt & rules committee) at the beginning.
And that shit with Ruger a few years ago was shameful and handled badly.
To me the answer is to use shooter classification like every other shooting sport. PRS has tried to do this at the national level (as you're aware
USPSA would never ban Master & Grand Master shooters from Production, but they wouldn't need to because beginners shooting Production guns are usually classified as C or D class, and scored against their peers.
But really, any newer shooter who looks at folks like Keith, Matt, or Lauryl as a barrier to their own success, instead of as inspiration, has the wrong mindset and IMO is more likely to quit when things get hard than to focus on improving themselves and getting better.
You should go try and run a match sometime. Many MDs break even or loose money hosting matching.
So... the MD's burden wasn't the actual point... although I do feel for them. Every MD is thinking "yay, new shooters" while simultaneously thinking "I can't believe they've done this to me".
My point was maintaining efficiency for everyone's sake.
Enabling the very few rookies that don't have a 6.5cm to shoot Sportsman's instead of Open doesn't justify the hand holding through PF at check in and the delays that will cause. The overwhelming majority of rookies will either 1) initially borrow then buy a 6.5cm to qualify for Sportsman's, 2) build an open gun, or 3) quit altogether.
Ignore the rookies... PF still doesn't make sense if you're realistic about where the PF would end up. You really think a reasonable PRS PF wouldn't just cause shooters to converge around the exact same cartridge that dominates NRL Hunter?
Don't have a 6.5cm? Uh, a) weird b) shoot your 7SS in Open
My point was maintaining efficiency for everyone's sake.
Enabling the very few rookies that don't have a 6.5cm to shoot Sportsman's instead of Open doesn't justify the hand holding through PF at check in and the delays that will cause. The overwhelming majority of rookies will either 1) initially borrow then buy a 6.5cm to qualify for Sportsman's, 2) build an open gun, or 3) quit altogether.
Ignore the rookies... PF still doesn't make sense if you're realistic about where the PF would end up. You really think a reasonable PRS PF wouldn't just cause shooters to converge around the exact same cartridge that dominates NRL Hunter?
Don't have a 6.5cm? Uh, a) weird b) shoot your 7SS in Open
I believe you nailed it here. USPSA has had a good system since the 90's when I did it. Everyone had a classification, even if it was unclassified and they were scored and ranked accordingly. It made sense and had much less subjectivity.
As far as folks like Keith, Ben, Kahl (I use them because I've seen them shoot), they are just shy of gods and Kahl actually looks like one, lol! They are definitely not barriers. They are the .01 MOA targets most will never hit, but I plan to die trying. It's not their fault they are so good and I don't blame them one bit for capitalizing on what I see are rule deficits.
Classification also helps you see our progress. I moved from C to B to A to M etc... I know its been poo poo'd but it kinda works for gettin the newbs involved. C/Ds fight it out and then when they get good enough get 'promoted' Same thing in F-Class. I shoot with a national champ. I sure as hell ain't competing with him.Yeah, Production isn't, and was never going to be, a "Beginners Only Division."
It should never have been marketed as or even hinted to be such a thing. It was always going to end up the way that it is, with sponsored shooters using production guns to help manufacturers market product, and that should've been clear to everyone involved (PRS mgmt & rules committee) at the beginning.
And that shit with Ruger a few years ago was shameful and handled badly.
To me the answer is to use shooter classification like every other shooting sport. PRS has tried to do this at the national level (as you're aware
USPSA would never ban Master & Grand Master shooters from Production, but they wouldn't need to because beginners shooting Production guns are usually classified as C or D class, and scored against their peers.
But really, any newer shooter who looks at folks like Keith, Matt, or Lauryl as a barrier to their own success, instead of as inspiration, has the wrong mindset and IMO is more likely to quit when things get hard than to focus on improving themselves and getting better.
Another participation trophy for guys that want to travel to a 2 day to compete with 4 people. At least make it a hunter category where caliber just has to make a power factor.
Man, there’s a lot of jealous, never shot against real competitors, sniveling weirdness in this thread.
So you bought a rifle you couldn’t afford and still can’t win? Sorry you didn’t understand that you could just shoot whatever because it’s you and not the rifle anyway.
So you think the pistol rules from 1987 are better than current PRS rules? Cool. Don’t shoot PRS. Literally no one cares.
So you don’t think “winning” means anything or is a legitimate pursuit in and of itself? Up your dose of T you limp dick motherfucker.
So you think having to track the cost of a rifle or check each entrant’s load for power factor is somehow a better idea than just limiting entrants to a specific caliber is a reasonable solution for a weekend long event with hundreds of entrants? Just tells us you’ve never been an MD.
So another classification is just a participation trophy or just a way for trophy winners to get another trophy. Well, win one and see if you take it home or leave it on the table. If you can’t, that’s your problem. If you can and don’t want to, see above regarding winning.
Anyway, back to your windmills gentlemen.
So you bought a rifle you couldn’t afford and still can’t win? Sorry you didn’t understand that you could just shoot whatever because it’s you and not the rifle anyway.
So you think the pistol rules from 1987 are better than current PRS rules? Cool. Don’t shoot PRS. Literally no one cares.
So you don’t think “winning” means anything or is a legitimate pursuit in and of itself? Up your dose of T you limp dick motherfucker.
So you think having to track the cost of a rifle or check each entrant’s load for power factor is somehow a better idea than just limiting entrants to a specific caliber is a reasonable solution for a weekend long event with hundreds of entrants? Just tells us you’ve never been an MD.
So another classification is just a participation trophy or just a way for trophy winners to get another trophy. Well, win one and see if you take it home or leave it on the table. If you can’t, that’s your problem. If you can and don’t want to, see above regarding winning.
Anyway, back to your windmills gentlemen.
Its not about participation trophies. Going up a class is self-rewarding. Some people want to get better, some people want to win. Some people just want a prize. Those people can fuck themselves.
I don't NEED classification, as I already track my hit percentage/times/etc. But I am highly competitive. Classification is a "carrot" to make people competitive. But it also helps--remember when I was "D" holy shit did I suck--look how far I came. No trophy required.
I don't NEED classification, as I already track my hit percentage/times/etc. But I am highly competitive. Classification is a "carrot" to make people competitive. But it also helps--remember when I was "D" holy shit did I suck--look how far I came. No trophy required.
Classifications (A,B,C,D). They exist in pretty much all sports. It's not perfect, (sandbagging and such) but it's the most used method to "even the field". The PRS cult refuses to even test it for a year. It's not about trophies....It's about being competitive, and as stated above, the sense of achievement when getting bumped up a class. Get over the argument of "trophies for everyone".....there's way more to it than that. Do this and you will grow the sport.
Masters swimming: Participation trophies for all the age groups. Even though there is a measurable difference in performance as you age.
Same thing with running. I love hauling my fat ass 5k against some skinny teen.
Better yet, lets stop handing out participation trophies to women. I'm tired of those bitches gettin their own division. The fact that my times once were on par with the woman's WORLD record has nothing to do with my set of nuts and a giant rudder in my suit. Fuck I didn't even qualify for state. These days I could throw on a womens suit, call myself a chick and be FAMOUS BABY!
Elitist assholes.
Same thing with running. I love hauling my fat ass 5k against some skinny teen.
Better yet, lets stop handing out participation trophies to women. I'm tired of those bitches gettin their own division. The fact that my times once were on par with the woman's WORLD record has nothing to do with my set of nuts and a giant rudder in my suit. Fuck I didn't even qualify for state. These days I could throw on a womens suit, call myself a chick and be FAMOUS BABY!
Elitist assholes.
I’ve seen classification in multiple sports. sometimes it works, sometimes it’s either impossibly hard to move up and sometimes it’s nothing but a sandbagger’s paradise.
I’m still proud as punch to be International Class in IHMSA. Worked my ass off to get there. Had to work my ass off too stay competitive there. I’t weren’t easy.
I’ve also seen efforts to make stuff work the same and make rules to make equipment to attract new people into the sport. I must say, a classification system is better but hardly perfect.
Getting new people to show up ONE TIME is easy, getting them to come back, not so much.
Using a simple to understand classificaiton system. Such as A, AA, AAA rather than the naming system currently in place that makes little sense. Moving to the next class is determined by the number of top three placements in the current class.
It’s built around success. The old saw, you shoot lousy but have a blast won’t hold water. No one and I do mean NO ONE (shouting intended) likes to look stupid, like a fool or a total failure. make me look like a total idiot once, I might can survive, make me look like a total idiot over and over again, won’t cut it.
My solution, two fold. Make targets easy and make targets hard. Making them all easy and you’ll make it pointless to the seasoned competitors. make it too hard and your new folks, after killing nothing but dirt time and time again, will find something else to do.
Second, introduce coaching for new shooters. That would be coaching for the bottom rung classes. Reduce entrance fees for those upper classification shooters who volunteer to coach.
We blame sponsors and their money for recent changes. Yet sponsors are not benefiting to any great degree. MPA and GAP over production but who else is really making any direct profit over PRS or NRL classes?
True, without the bucks there is no buck rogers or AG Cup champions, and sometimes bucks make the game. But new shooters, not new equipment makes the growth.
I’m still proud as punch to be International Class in IHMSA. Worked my ass off to get there. Had to work my ass off too stay competitive there. I’t weren’t easy.
I’ve also seen efforts to make stuff work the same and make rules to make equipment to attract new people into the sport. I must say, a classification system is better but hardly perfect.
Getting new people to show up ONE TIME is easy, getting them to come back, not so much.
Using a simple to understand classificaiton system. Such as A, AA, AAA rather than the naming system currently in place that makes little sense. Moving to the next class is determined by the number of top three placements in the current class.
It’s built around success. The old saw, you shoot lousy but have a blast won’t hold water. No one and I do mean NO ONE (shouting intended) likes to look stupid, like a fool or a total failure. make me look like a total idiot once, I might can survive, make me look like a total idiot over and over again, won’t cut it.
My solution, two fold. Make targets easy and make targets hard. Making them all easy and you’ll make it pointless to the seasoned competitors. make it too hard and your new folks, after killing nothing but dirt time and time again, will find something else to do.
Second, introduce coaching for new shooters. That would be coaching for the bottom rung classes. Reduce entrance fees for those upper classification shooters who volunteer to coach.
We blame sponsors and their money for recent changes. Yet sponsors are not benefiting to any great degree. MPA and GAP over production but who else is really making any direct profit over PRS or NRL classes?
True, without the bucks there is no buck rogers or AG Cup champions, and sometimes bucks make the game. But new shooters, not new equipment makes the growth.
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Can’t we all just shoot and get along? #smirk
Seriously though, the reasons you shoot are yours alone and they only matter to you.
It’s literally all relative to your own determined context.
At the end of the day the PRS is a business and their product is matches. They either provide a product that consumers like, and we choose to purchase, or they don’t, and we take our money elsewhere.
If you choose to purchase a product that ends up being not exactly what you wanted or thought it was, then you can’t blame anyone but yourself.
Seriously though, the reasons you shoot are yours alone and they only matter to you.
It’s literally all relative to your own determined context.
At the end of the day the PRS is a business and their product is matches. They either provide a product that consumers like, and we choose to purchase, or they don’t, and we take our money elsewhere.
If you choose to purchase a product that ends up being not exactly what you wanted or thought it was, then you can’t blame anyone but yourself.
I see your point, but i disagree on one point. The Precision Rifle Series product is not matches. Matches are the product of the oft maligned match director and the local ranges PRS’s job is to provide sanctioning, (Read rules and awards and record keeping and assisting promotion) for that product.
That’s why the local fellow who is doing so much of the work, and gets so little of the credit and is maligned for making so much “profit” always gets the blame but never the credit. (Please tell me where all those millions in profits I made hosting matches went to? I seem to have forgotten about 10 seconds after I finally paid all the bills). I do remember people who did nothing, never showed up, never spent one second in years helping with maintenance of the range, standing in line for their share of the entrance fees
I work for Beretta which owns Tikka and to them, PRS is barely a drop in the bucket for rifle sales. Hence why they have no real presence officially in the sport. There isn’t enough money in it to sell $1500 rifles. Now sell $3000 rifles like MPA and GAP and have no where close to the same amount of overhead and it’s a different story. And those two companies heavily influence PRS and those are also 50% of the rifles you see at matches.
If you charge a membership fee to your range you need to include the cost of maintenance in a range.
If I'm paying 500+ dollars a year for a range I can use maybe 1-2 times a month, I refuse to be free labor for that range.
It's not the problem of the member if the range cannot properly adjust for cost of maintenance. It's also not the fault of the person coming to a match if the MD doesn't make money, but I would tell you if you have 75-100 people showing up to a match, at 50-60 dollars minimum per person, that's 4500 bucks in just fee's alone at an average for a single day event.
I understand there might be a food cost, some RO's cost, etc, but most one day matches don't have food, and are self RO'd.
a two day match at 275, and approximately 150-200 people show up? That's 48K avg in match fee's alone.
I want range owners to make money, but I also want to point out that the average cost for someone to attend a single day match, with 8-10 stages, is like 10-20 bucks in fuel, around $150-200 in ammo depending on caliber, and a 50-100 dollar match fee. So lets call it $250 for a person to shoot a match for a day.
That shit is expensive for the average person. There has to be a better way, and like you pointed out, putting more onus on MD's to now provide MORE TROPHIES for some class that'll have 5-6 fudds at a one day match is crazy.
PRS is imploding on itself at this point, and it sucks to see.
I'm sure someone will call me a "dumb lib" though within 10 seconds of this post, so whatever.
except for some we cannot take our money elsewhere. IIRC ranges that are PRS members cannot hold NRL matches, correct? If I am incorrect here I'm cool with it.
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