The Sportsman Division
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It's optional. Lots of folks who have cans likely won't choose to use one, but the idea is to further normalize the use of suppressors on rifles. The more common they are, the better for everyone and the more likely we are to have continued and even expanded access to them.
No one in the PRS is trying to punish a dude who lives in a commie state and can't own a can (but his state government absolutely is)
Production is a division for Ruger, Savage, MPA, and GAP, and isn't going anywhere as long as those guys continue to contribute sponsorship dollars and to sponsor entire matches during the season.
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I’m not disagreeing with you, I love shooting suppressed. Just didn’t think we needed a new class for it. That’s all. Furthering the normalization of NFA items should always be a priority, specific class or not. Not to digress, but repealing the NFA would be the biggest win.
It's funny to me that someone would imply the Hide is one voice with all the same opinion and would try to frame that as representative of this thread. It's pretty clear that ain't it.
I'm over here hoping Congress deregulates supressors too. That would be nice.
I'm over here hoping Congress deregulates supressors too. That would be nice.
Since the Maverick in the shortest braked configuration is allowed, someone needs to make a really short suppressor with a brake on it.
Based on the posted rule the Mav won't be allowed in the shortest braked configuration, since it's still louder than a bare muzzle. Unsure about the longer braked configuration, since it looks like you could make an argument either way.
I asked in their FB post and someone confirmed Mav in all config was good to go.
Then he needs to rewrite the rule before the season starts.
You are correct if you are only looking at DB... sorry I can't be more concise and maybe energy is the wrong term. If I can locate the test and explanation I will post it. It specifically delt with the concussive properties of the maverick from the shooter's ear and off to the side as compared to the same from a traditional brake.
Suppressor division is neat. I have shot suppressed a while now. It’s not as much of hindrance as made to be but a division is nice. Unfortunately I don’t see it being any different than open with the maverick and Tbac RR cans.
If it gets more suppressors on the line that’s awesome. I welcome the break from having to double up.
If it gets more suppressors on the line that’s awesome. I welcome the break from having to double up.
If it spurs growth in the market for other suppressor manufacturers to follow suit with lower concussive hybrid options I'd say that's a win.
This is the wording in the Preliminary rule published by PRS:
So I guess it depends on a reduction in comparison to what...
Most measures of silencer performance compare the device to a bare muzzle, not a brake, but I guess if your baseline is a Hellfire or ACE brake, instead of a bare muzzle, then yeah, a even the short braked Mav is substantially quieter and less concussive.
And TBH, if everyone had at least a Mav on their rifle, matches would be much more pleasant to shoot and RO.
But it's a shift from the idea Ken discussed on the Shooter's Mindset of using the Box Canyon folks' rules for determining what is or isn't allowed as a suppressor, which is "All suppressors must be considered hearing safe for ROs and your squad mates to be comfortable while not wearing hearing protection." Not that any suppressed centerfire rifle is really 100% hearing safe.
I agree with @Rob01 that if there's been a change from what Ken said on the podcast to a more relaxed stance it's most likely a sposorship/money thing, as not allowing the Mav would potentially cost Area419 a lot of money in 2025. And that's fine, but it would be nice if it had been clear from the beginning.
If I had a say I would have specified at least a 5” can with a minimum number of baffles regardless of how the device is classified.
What was said on the podcast wasn't defensible with regard to length requirements or baffle count now that 3d printing technology is here and Ken's statement about probably not allowing mavericks or bosses to be used but TBA and presumably KGM's allowed had me concerned.
I was hoping for a tax stamp equals a tax stamp rule or if we must, an additional regulation of no side porting or venting of gas allowed... we are at less that 24 hours on this rule so maybe more clarification is forth coming.
I was hoping for a tax stamp equals a tax stamp rule or if we must, an additional regulation of no side porting or venting of gas allowed... we are at less that 24 hours on this rule so maybe more clarification is forth coming.
All the talk about cheating is by people who couldn’t podium at a National PRS match in any division no matter what equipment you gave them.
I agree with most of these comments. It "could" be good, but it will soon be impossible for new shooters to score 40% when the real pro open shooters are told by sponsors to shoot "this 13lb rifle". Then...the new shooters walk away OR take out a HELOC on their house and go all in on a straight up race gun. I've only been playing with LR since February and don't have much of an informed opinion, but the stats speak for themselves. Of the three matches I've attended (only shot in one) I have seen the same pro shooters in three different classes in different matches. I realize winning is everything to sponsors, but if "the sport" really wants to expand and draw newbies, this flip-flopping shit has got to stop. All the badass pro open shooters need to play amongst themselves and give us shitty shooters a hint of possibility of hitting the podium.
The issue here isn't divisions. It's classifications. I'm of the opinion that they mean very little currently, and they should be made to have more a distinction/use in separating classes of shooters and promoting both recruiting of new shooters as well as skill development. JMHO.
Except they dont use classifications in regional series, only pro series. Which I think having Am, Marksman, semi and pro in the regional series would be good.
NRL Hunter seems to be much more than just a simple weight class.
IMO, I don't think this is going to "pull" many NRL Hunter shooters, no more than those that currently shoot PRS as well. But I could be wrong...
Yup the matches are different. Shooting a standard PRS match and just using a 13 pound rifle is not like a NRL Hunter match.
But, if someone has a gun that makes weight in NRL hunter, and has been thinking “you know, I’d like to try PRS but I don’t have a competitive gun,” now they do…
So a dozen or so people?
I don't think there are many people out there that are hesitant to shoot a PRS match on account of there not being a lightweight division.
IDK, but “sportsmen” that don’t shoot any comps is not a market either…
As mentioned kind of a stretch to make a totally new division on those people.
Ah let Ken have some fun while he owns the PRS. I am sure there will be a new owner in a couple years anyways. Lol it’s had what 5 owners in 12 years already. Lol
I think PRS missed the mark here. This is not going to get new shooters into the sport. Well it may grab a few naive ones and then after they shoot one match they will never come back. It could actually hurt new shooter growth long term.
13 lbs and a 6.5 with the firing schedule of modern matches and positional shooting with the smaller plate sizes we are seeing today is going to beat the living shit out of a shooter. It's not going to be fun shooting a gun half the weight and twice the recoil ( which ends up being like 4 times the recoil) and lack of stability. The vast majority of these shooters do not have solid fundamentals and it will exacerbate the issues.
A few sponsored or gamer shooters might shoot it for easy points or to make finale but it's not going to be popular.
Instead it should have been 16 lbs which lines up with state hunting laws like in Idaho. 16lb 6.5cm is still going to be a big handicap like tac but not a joke like production. The cumulative recoil difference is pretty substantial. Also, so all MDs now need to buy a scale so people can shoot this new division at regionals too?
It's a step in the right direction but it's not going to be the success they think it is. Most people are shooting 22-28 lb guns today with a light recoiling 6mm to help with spotting shots.
The suppressor " class" is a great idea. Hopefully some other can manufactures jump in and really make the push , as I think we will find out the collective concusion of these modern brakes and high volume match shooters will have long term health issues.
13 lbs and a 6.5 with the firing schedule of modern matches and positional shooting with the smaller plate sizes we are seeing today is going to beat the living shit out of a shooter. It's not going to be fun shooting a gun half the weight and twice the recoil ( which ends up being like 4 times the recoil) and lack of stability. The vast majority of these shooters do not have solid fundamentals and it will exacerbate the issues.
A few sponsored or gamer shooters might shoot it for easy points or to make finale but it's not going to be popular.
Instead it should have been 16 lbs which lines up with state hunting laws like in Idaho. 16lb 6.5cm is still going to be a big handicap like tac but not a joke like production. The cumulative recoil difference is pretty substantial. Also, so all MDs now need to buy a scale so people can shoot this new division at regionals too?
It's a step in the right direction but it's not going to be the success they think it is. Most people are shooting 22-28 lb guns today with a light recoiling 6mm to help with spotting shots.
The suppressor " class" is a great idea. Hopefully some other can manufactures jump in and really make the push , as I think we will find out the collective concusion of these modern brakes and high volume match shooters will have long term health issues.
You should read the PRS rules sometime. Once there is critical mass in the regionals they will have classification. It's been in there for years.
Thanks bud, actually have read them. But they tend to follow certain rules and not others. I’d argue more people shoot regional than pro anyway. But I’m sure you’ll tell me where I’m wrong
Different skills and work flow, but using a similar rifle now means you aren’t up against a 26# dasher unless you want to use one too.
Nothing different except the rifle if shooting the same match. Same props and targets as the 26 pound Dasher just going to have to use the 13 pound Creedmoor to hit them.
Yup, but the 13 pound creed will be scored against others like it first, before against the overall score. An artificial distinction I guess, kind of like archery against a Savage Axis.
Listed weight of the RPR in 6.5 CM is 10.7 lbs. I don’t think mine is 13 lbs, or very much over that ready to shoot. I’ve never felt it was particularly punishing to shoot, nor the limiting factor to my scores.
Yeah obviously but it’s not going to be some division people are swarming to. Be shooting against 2 or 3 other guys. It’s pretty much a useless division made to try and steal NRL hunter shooters but they shoot that sport for the course of fire and not because of 13 pound rifles. Ah it’s not worth worrying about honestly.
I’m part of a real small demographic, but it works for me because I can build and shoot just one rifle for hunting and matches. The PRS match stuff is a lot tougher at 13#, but I like the focus and practice all on one setup that I use in the field.
Lol I have shot the Creedmoor in matches since 2008 and my rifles were always around 14-15 pounds max fully loaded and no brakes in the beginning either so I know about shooting a lighter rifle in matches.
Shooting it against 26 pound Dashers would be harder but if that was my only rifle I would just do it. Hey if the new division works for you then have at it but you could have always done it that way if you shot for fun and not worried about points. But now you will probably be in the top three of your division in every match. Lol
I didn't "want" a dasher (well, I kinda did a little). I realized I would never see an overall match win without one. My personally won't allow me to half-ass anything competitive and I'm damn sure not going to piss my life and money away being a 50% competitor. This entire sport is geared toward pushing participants to buy more and better gear to get more impacts. This whole thread is full of comments about manufacturer this and manufacturer that. They are the ones driving this train and as long as that's the case, the objective won't change. "Buy our shit, it's better because top shooters in the world use it". This strategy definitely worked on me.
I've spent $15k since February and only some of what I've bought is top of the line. The majority wasn't. They want to give the welcoming impression that Bubba can show up with his hunting rifle and 5 boxes of ammo from Walmart and eventually be competitive. That's complete bullshit. What they want is Bubba to show up and then upsell him on shooting better with our $4k+ rifle and $3k+ optic and so on and so forth. That's all fine, but don't lead on new shooters making them think they'll actually be able to compete with a .270 or 30-06 while they are seeding the division with pro shooters. Nothing about that says, "we want new shooters". What it says is, "we want you to spend more money".
The targets today are not really anymore difficult than over a decade ago.
I’m at the carbon fiber stock, Tikka, Ares ETR budget level so far, so I guess not $2K all in, but lots of hunters around here are sporting $5K rifle optic combos. They are terrified of looking bad though, so will never shoot a match.
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