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The Sportsman Division
- Thread starter Lowlight
- Start date
Anybody that doesn't want to help at their home range should be charged accordingly. It's like bringing the grocery cart back inside the building at Sam's. The repair of those door dings caused by carts not being returned costs money and it comes straight outta membership fees. Either you have pride in what you're part of, or you don't.
Totally irrelevant to our range. Myself and a a couple friends rebuilt it. But we did not own it or receive the lease fees. We paid to shoot there just like everyone else. I didn’t charge anyone to use the range. And no one paid me a fucking penny except at the matches I held. When I joined, the trash had not been emptied in probably 5 years, yet people shot there all the time.
And the real crap of the entire deal. The people managing the lease, let it lapse, never told me, so the range that Philip, Charlie, Brenda and Myself rebuilt, was lost to us. Had it been mentioned, I would have paid the lease in full. I put way too much work on that property to see it pissed away.
had I paid the lease in full, the Dugdemona Gun Club would cease and sure enough, anyone who wanted to shoot there, was going to pay through the nose. (Excepting of course, the Braud brothers, my wife, myself, our son when he was on leave and of course, yours truly. )
Ok, perhaps he is not commenting on you specifically...... It doesn't sound like your case would be considered normal, and then you comment how you would have people "pay through the nose" given the chance.
I am confused about your point, other than seemingly fucked off with it all? It does sound like you have a reason to be though!
My point was, that the very people who never lifted a finger to help maintain the range, much less help with the match, much less help pay the expenses of holding the matches, were literally standing in line waiting/demanding their share of the entry fees. Kinda pissed me off.
I pay a range fee because I pay to shoot there, not maintain the grounds. If I'm paying 400, 500, 600 and up a year plus match fees, why TF should I have to lift a single finger to do that shit? I'm paying for a product.
If you want to discount my match fees and stuff, I am perfectly happy to help, but I'm not going to give you free labor.
Since at least last year, possibly longer. It’s never been the case under current management, but I can’t say for sure if it changed before the sale or not.
I can say it is that way definitively now because ranges I’m familiar with (like Alabama Precision and Coleman’s Creek) either ran both NRL Hunter & PRS matches last year, or will be doing so this year.
Well then that is at least one good thing the present ownership has done as that was the stupidest rule ever from an organization claiming to want to “grow the sport”.
We’ve been doing something similar at our club matches. Running two divisions Open & “Practical”. The practical name only came about to stir the pot with our game gun shooters.
We kind of blended the NRL Hunter and PRS series, and set the restrictions up in manner so that we wouldn’t justhave 2-3 shooters in it, but would also appeal to potential new shooters & our varmint/predator dudes. What we came up with for “practical division” was basically 16lb weight, no muzzle brake, and then do a small point bonus for shooting lighter rigs. That bonus is capped at 3pts, if you can get under a 10lbs setup.
We run the practical division alongside the open in our League points chase meaning if a practical shooter out shoots the open division they take the open payout on top of the practical division payout. The photos are from our league format .doc.
I can see what the PRS was trying to do. IMO, they kind of dropped the ball with it in only allowing 6.5 creedmoors. They keyholed it, missing out on a lot of potential new shooters that already have something like a 700 in .243 etc… sitting in the safe, but also missing out on the group of shooters that are lurking in shadows but hate the “gamer” side of the game.
We kind of blended the NRL Hunter and PRS series, and set the restrictions up in manner so that we wouldn’t justhave 2-3 shooters in it, but would also appeal to potential new shooters & our varmint/predator dudes. What we came up with for “practical division” was basically 16lb weight, no muzzle brake, and then do a small point bonus for shooting lighter rigs. That bonus is capped at 3pts, if you can get under a 10lbs setup.
We run the practical division alongside the open in our League points chase meaning if a practical shooter out shoots the open division they take the open payout on top of the practical division payout. The photos are from our league format .doc.
I can see what the PRS was trying to do. IMO, they kind of dropped the ball with it in only allowing 6.5 creedmoors. They keyholed it, missing out on a lot of potential new shooters that already have something like a 700 in .243 etc… sitting in the safe, but also missing out on the group of shooters that are lurking in shadows but hate the “gamer” side of the game.
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I am reading these posts with great interest. I've been intimately involved in competition shooting within 6 different competition organizations. By intimate, I've been an MD for too many 30-250 shooter events to count over 2 decades with 3 separate organizations. I worked closely with Walt Berger while he was Director and President of the NBRSA (bench rest for you neophytes).
As a career long manufacturer of premium products, I watch competitions closely. This is where you can get a lot of concentrated feedback due to such a large group of shooters being in the same place. It also gathers the market together in a single location which is hard to do in the shooting world. Both are positives to any manufacturer regardless of their motivation (money, passion or both).
I appreciate the back and forth. I am less familiar with PRS and want to learn more. We've been watching the PRS and NRL closely the last few years. We even tested some sponsorship programs to see how both groups practically execute their operations. They do as good a job as any other shooting competition organization.
It is clear that the PRS has many people who care a great deal about its success. I can't speak to the motivations behind this new class as I am not close with the deciders. I can speak to history. If you look back at all the rifle competition organizations that have come before, the PRS is making many of the same choices that have been made in the past to grow the sport. I know how these choices worked out for the other 6. It will be interesting to see what happens now.
As a career long manufacturer of premium products, I watch competitions closely. This is where you can get a lot of concentrated feedback due to such a large group of shooters being in the same place. It also gathers the market together in a single location which is hard to do in the shooting world. Both are positives to any manufacturer regardless of their motivation (money, passion or both).
I appreciate the back and forth. I am less familiar with PRS and want to learn more. We've been watching the PRS and NRL closely the last few years. We even tested some sponsorship programs to see how both groups practically execute their operations. They do as good a job as any other shooting competition organization.
It is clear that the PRS has many people who care a great deal about its success. I can't speak to the motivations behind this new class as I am not close with the deciders. I can speak to history. If you look back at all the rifle competition organizations that have come before, the PRS is making many of the same choices that have been made in the past to grow the sport. I know how these choices worked out for the other 6. It will be interesting to see what happens now.
The class itself isn't an issue, the fact that it was "13 lbs 6.5 creed go forth" is the issue. There is little thought, rhyme, or reason to the current PRS classes and some dollar limits imposed on those classes.
I know from friends that benchrest is extremely expensive, but PRS wants to get the "average sportsman" into it, but puts "production class" rifles in a 3k limit range with a 3k scope, which is far from the reach of the "normal sportsman".
^^ bingo
i was running the SoTex region matches when Keith showed up to his first one as a complete rookie
He literally dedicated every bit of spare time he had for years to get where he is today...where he is now is as EARNED as it can possibly get...his dime and his time, then rewarded...crazy concept...
and that story isnt much different from the majority of other "pros" today
I don't think any normal person looks at them as a "barrier to their success". I think major gripes, and back to the reason of this thread being started, is the classes make no actual sense, the barrier to entry is high, but they want to "grow" the sport, but there is this weird gatekeeping going on.
If we just want to be truthful and go "manners and GAP have a gun that is specifically under 13 lbs for this class to be viable" be outright with it, if that's the case and hell, make it so their a class sponsor and have a rifle on the table at some of the 2 day matches for winning.
But if it's actually meant to get more people into the sport to dust off an old rifle, do it the right way.
The barrier isn’t the $5000 rifle. It’s the $1000-$2000 it costs to shoot a 2 day match. Throw in practice, range membership, etc and you’re out $15k-$20k/year to do 8-10x local matches and 5x 2 day matches plus finale. I know people that spend more than that even with sponsors helping them out.
For some reason, we keep insisting that novice/entry level PRS shooter use rifles that are harder to shoot ?
Why? Why? Why?
For some reason, we keep insisting that novice/entry level PRS shooter use rifles that are harder to shoot ?
Why? Why? Why?
I’m curious on how many would actually shoot 300 PRC or 7mm (insert flavor) or whatever else at a one or two day match if allowed? Even with a highly effective brake my shoulder hurts just thinking about it. I’m probably just a pussy.
I’ve said the same thing in our club. But, since we’ve started that practical division I’ve had more new shooters show interest than just running the matches with just an open class.For some reason, we keep insisting that novice/entry level PRS shooter use rifles that are harder to shoot ?
Why? Why? Why?
A handful of guys are hunters of some flavor but the majority just dudes that had rifles that were dusty. Now how many of those new shooters that show up shooting practical end up moving to a full on game gun,
. 2025 is our fits season with it, but in the 4 matches since starting it I’ve had 3 dudes build full on open guns.Every new shooter that comes out I say the same thing to them “you know shooting practical you’re putting yourself at disadvantage, right?” Most don’t seem to care though. So, to answer your rhetorical question. I think it’s purely dudes living in their heads then they intimidated themselves with the thought of having to show up as new guy and compete with “open” rifles then looking bad or silly, for some reason.
Nope even with 208/210s around 3000fps. My 7mmRM had less recoil but only shot that in one match.
It's not so much the recoil, it's the muzzle blast and finicky-ness of barrels when you blast 10-12 round strings with 70+ gr of powder over it's (short) lifespan. It's a headache both figuratively and literally.
Since NRL bolt series doesnt exist anymore
There are still a number of venues that run both PRS regional/pro series matches and NRL hunter matches.
Since NRL bolt series doesnt exist anymore
There are still a number of venues that run both PRS regional/pro series matches and NRL hunter matches.
Last I heard PRS had the leash on the ranges and didn’t allow them to run anything but PRS matches. As I said good that they don’t do that anymore as it was a stupid rule.
That was when Shannon owned it. I haven't heard anything about it since then. It was a few years ago I think last we heard of it. Guys like @lead ƒarmer might have the latest info.
Agreed it was a bad move. Hurt the MDs more than anyone.
Shooting a 300WM
Last year we shot an outlaw match and a fellow in our squad was shooting a 300 WM with a carbon barrel. He was the MAN. while no where close to the trophy table, his scores were not that bad, even late in the day.
Last year we shot an outlaw match and a fellow in our squad was shooting a 300 WM with a carbon barrel. He was the MAN. while no where close to the trophy table, his scores were not that bad, even late in the day.
Yeah Shannon was very against it. Luckily Ken is much easier to work with and more open minded. I don't have the resources or time to put on both NRL and PRS, but the Snake River guys and Dane at COSSA host for both series.
Just to add to this, when I showed up to my first match I was in Keith’s squad.
We talked a bit and I said “I was getting pretty serious, shooting 50 rounds a weekend every weekend minimum.”
He replied that he was trying to shoot 100 per day every day. I think he won the match.
That’s when I realized what it took to be tops in this game, some serious dedication.
I like the 13lb 6.5 creed rule. Every gun shop will have at least 5 on the shelf. It’s basically the rifle that’s been recommended as a starting place for the last decade. A barreled action in a bravo.
The guns he would be competing against would be roughly comparable. I think it’s a fine entrance to the sport as well as giving a different challenge with some additional recoil over the open guns.
Late to the conversation on this, but on the original topic...
I'm continually dismayed in the names PRS chooses for it's divisions. "Sportsman" has just about as much association with actual sportsmen as "Production" does with mass produced rifles. I think this leads to a lot of misplaced division and arguing among the ranks (as evidenced by this and thread).
I do not see NRLH Open Light as a vast well of new shooters to tap, just like pre-made Open gun shooters (aka Production). Both seem to fit the needs of the owner/board more than the shooting community.
We'd have more interest and attendance if a division was created for all the intro to long range shooters that vastly outnumber the rest of us, that already have 14-15 lb rifles ready to rock. Get them sucked in with what they have, give them a home division to shoot in for a year or two, then let them catch the custom addiction as most of us regulars do. As written, it will require thoughtful planning to get a 9.6 lb gun to fit in the 13lb ready to shoot box and you'll have a very compromised setup. All those HMR & PST gen2 (or whatever ~30oz scope of choice) aren't going to make weight.
At least this is trending in a more practical direction.
I am stoked about the new suppressor category. Brakes suck to be around. But, I am baffled they are allowing the shorty Maverick, and I say that as a shorty Maverick shooter. Draw a scientific line on what qualifies or doesn't. dB reduction, with weighting scale and method. Without that, we'll have to rely on a whitelist/blacklist and it'll be very difficult for other manufacturers to develop around.
I'm continually dismayed in the names PRS chooses for it's divisions. "Sportsman" has just about as much association with actual sportsmen as "Production" does with mass produced rifles. I think this leads to a lot of misplaced division and arguing among the ranks (as evidenced by this and thread).
I do not see NRLH Open Light as a vast well of new shooters to tap, just like pre-made Open gun shooters (aka Production). Both seem to fit the needs of the owner/board more than the shooting community.
We'd have more interest and attendance if a division was created for all the intro to long range shooters that vastly outnumber the rest of us, that already have 14-15 lb rifles ready to rock. Get them sucked in with what they have, give them a home division to shoot in for a year or two, then let them catch the custom addiction as most of us regulars do. As written, it will require thoughtful planning to get a 9.6 lb gun to fit in the 13lb ready to shoot box and you'll have a very compromised setup. All those HMR & PST gen2 (or whatever ~30oz scope of choice) aren't going to make weight.
At least this is trending in a more practical direction.
I am stoked about the new suppressor category. Brakes suck to be around. But, I am baffled they are allowing the shorty Maverick, and I say that as a shorty Maverick shooter. Draw a scientific line on what qualifies or doesn't. dB reduction, with weighting scale and method. Without that, we'll have to rely on a whitelist/blacklist and it'll be very difficult for other manufacturers to develop around.
Most of the top guys in PRS fall into at least 1 of these categories:
1. They work in the industry
2. They own their own business/make their own schedules
3. They live on or very close to a shooting range
4. They are Independently wealthy
And there is nothing wrong with that.
I laugh out loud at them on my podcast
It’s stupid and contrived they learned nothing
Precision Rifle blog needs to add a “What the pros do” survey. Before anyone gets all weird about it we don’t need to know exactly what they do for privacy sake but rather what industry they are in. You know.. for shits and giggles.
Can’t wait to order my new Sportsman division rifle.
This shit is a joke at this point.
GA: We want to sell more rifles in X config.
PRS: We gotchu fam
Just my opinion but PRS missed the boat with this new class and production class. Me personally I won’t be joining PRS again this year but will still be shooting my 8-12 one day matches and one two day match.
Same here. I am going to go shoot matches and have fun and keep the money I would have sent the PRS for another match fee. Lol
Exactly and I’m not bitter with them, Just don’t see the need anymore. Actually I’ll be joining a club that host matches all over the state and keeps their own points for the year end finale. Oh and the cost of the membership 100% goes to a scholarship program they have, so I at least can see what my money is going towards.
Everyone laughed and dismissed it, but honestly
Open, Limited, then add in divisions end of story
Open is any any, although I would add a maximum weight,
Limited is that, limited to 26" barrels, a weight, like 19LBS, and factory ammo
Done !
Open, Limited, then add in divisions end of story
Open is any any, although I would add a maximum weight,
Limited is that, limited to 26" barrels, a weight, like 19LBS, and factory ammo
Done !
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