Mk 13 Mod 0 stock
- Thread starter pmclaine
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I have an interest. Shoot me a couple of pictures of the items and the price for the kit. And what parts do I need to come up with. Thank you
Well I’ve been sitting on a mk13 kit for awhile because of other projects and funds. I have been debating if I was going to go Rem or Stiller action. I have a magnum Long action already but my kit came with a IMUNs instead of a MARS. Well today I realized that my case wasn’t completely scrubbed from Thoroughbred.
I guess Stiller it is, gotta match the case.
Edit: With that anyone have a mk13 trigger that doesn’t cost 2k?
I guess Stiller it is, gotta match the case.
Edit: With that anyone have a mk13 trigger that doesn’t cost 2k?
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Looking at the serial number on the piece of tape, you'll want a Wylie receiver to match the case. You'll also need an XTSP Mk13 trigger for your Mod 5. Good luck with hunting one of those down, I don't think that Tom at XTSP makes those triggers anymore, and now they're quite rare to see (and they currently sell for about $500+).
The $2,000 triggers are the Geissele Mk13 triggers, which were used on the Mod 7's. You need to be very careful with these triggers though, unscrupulous Gunbroker sellers have these Geissele Mk13 triggers available, but they're DRMO triggers that are KNOWN to have issues! But, those sellers won't tell you this, they just want your $2,000. I've probably sold about 2 dozen of these Geissele Mk13 triggers over the past 2 years (helping a friend sell the ones he got from Geissele), and they used to be priced at $2,500 a year or 2 ago. None of the triggers I've sold have been surplus/DRMO, all of them have been new in original packaging and acquired from Geissele.
Additionally, almost all of the triggers that I sold have an "R" laser engraved on the housing, which stands for a revision that Geissele made to these Mk13 triggers. The DRMO Geissele Mk13 triggers being sold by shady Gunbroker dealers don't have this revision, and that's one of the reasons why those triggers had failures and ended up at DRMO in the first place! So, if anyone here is looking to purchase a legit Geissele Mk13 trigger for their Mod 7 build, please make sure that you purchase one that's been acquired from Geissele, is new in original packaging, and has the "R" revision marking on the trigger housing. Don't risk spending $2,000+ on a faulty trigger that might break or fire a chambered round with the safety lever, buy the trigger from a trustworthy source.
I’m looking for a bit more information on a Mod 0 stock I recently purchased, it seems like the stock was painted over shortly before leaving crane. The bedding material and areas that would be “exposed” fiberglass are all coated over, any help or insight would be greatly appreciated!
Congratulations on acquiring that stock kit, and it's definitely one of mine! Unfortunately, it appears that a previous owner painted that stock. Crane didn't paint the bedding and exposed fiberglass in the inletting. Additionally, if you look at the chips in the left side of the forend, it looks like they have been painted over as well (this is what it looks like in the photos, you'll have to verify this). The chips would have been from SEALs using the rifle in the field and at the range. If the stock was painted before leaving Crane, the chips would be through the paint, not painted over.
Is the stock tan or grey fiberglass? Is there a gel-coat under the new paint? My recommendation is to strip the new paint off. All of it, including the paint in the inletting and on the bedding material. Once the new paint is gone you'll be able to see the stock's actual condition, and then you can decide what to do with it from there. You can keep it as is or add your own "sniper" paint to it.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1062194690
Here's the Gunbroker item description, there's no mention about the new paint and the remarked serial number in the barrel channel:
"Listed is an original Mk13 Mod 0 stock with Certificate of Authenticity. Everything pictured is included which consists of the stock, L-shapes recoil lug, bottom metal, internal magazine and COA. This is perfect for those enthusiasts wishing to add a Mk13 300 Win Mag to their collection. These are getting harder to find so get it while you can. If the winner wishes to purchase using a CC, I use GunTab and can send an invoice."
Here's the Gunbroker item description, there's no mention about the new paint and the remarked serial number in the barrel channel:
"Listed is an original Mk13 Mod 0 stock with Certificate of Authenticity. Everything pictured is included which consists of the stock, L-shapes recoil lug, bottom metal, internal magazine and COA. This is perfect for those enthusiasts wishing to add a Mk13 300 Win Mag to their collection. These are getting harder to find so get it while you can. If the winner wishes to purchase using a CC, I use GunTab and can send an invoice."
A bit of an update, after a long conversation with @USMCSGT0331 last night, and gaining a more information, I decided to attempt to remove the paint and expose the original finish. Four hours later, I think it turned out pretty good, still a bit more to remove in the texturing.
A big thank you to everyone who reached out to try and help!
A big thank you to everyone who reached out to try and help!
Hopefully you didn't buy it from a member in this thread because honestly they should be ashamed of whatever the hell they did when painting it. The outside could pass but the bedding and inside? The fuck....
Is this the “R” you’re talking about top left?
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Hey fellas, got a MIRS rail for the MK13. Wanting to get some opinions on what the best torque settings for all the screws should be to keep it from coming lose during fire. Mine has come loose during a range day roughly after 10-15 rounds. I’ve tried using some blue loctite and even Rocksett, but neither seem to keep it from coming loose. Any suggestions on what I need to do to keep it locked down, maybe red loctite?
If you’re using a factory R700 action, have you opened the holes up to 8/40?
Yes sir, and I missing anything? I tried using 35in/lbs on the torque with rocksett and no luck. Should I use a red loctite?
Should be the same. Main thing to note when installing a MIRS is the tensioner screw (#3). After installing the rail via the top screws, you need to adjust the tensions crew so that it barely contacts the receiver and then stop. You do not want to over torque that screw.
McMillan released some A2’s this morning. Mixed L shaped lug, .312 lug, and a single .312 with M5 DBM.
And one gray one.
And one gray one.
Highly doubtful McMillan brought the A2 mold out of mothballs for just one limited release drop. Like the new M40A1 smears from almost exactly one year ago, there will surely be more Mod 0 stocks coming in future drops. I’m hopeful I’ll be able to get a grey one soon!
Yeah I knew they would re-release these. I got crap for saying that as well lol.
For those considering one of the McMillan mod 0 limited edition stocks, I wanted to share a quick comparison between an issued stock and the “new” production run.
There are a handful of subtle differences. The good news - All of these are cosmetic and absolutely do not impact the function or quality of the stock!
The issued stock is an early grey. I unfortunately do not have an issued tan stock to compare this against.
1. Profile view: The texturing on the new stock is slightly different and extends further (it’s hardly noticeable). This was confirmed to be due to the molds used for the early grey vs later tan stocks (thanks to @ilikebmxbikes for confirming). Everything else aligns well.
2. Top down view: This is where most of the differences are apparent.
The forearm rail screw spacing and depth varies between both stocks. The early grey has the unfinished rail, possibly driving the difference in spacing. The action pillars are closely aligned in the picture below (causing the new production stock to appear shorter). I’ve since resolved the reason for this further below.
At the rear, the action and bolt relief cuts are a bit different. This is purely cosmetic.
Update: Upon closer inspection, I confirmed the new stock is not shorter; rather, the inlet is slightly forward. When aligning based on the buttstock, rather than the pillars as I did above, it’s much easier to see this.
3. Bottoms up view. Other than the forearm rail screw spacing, the remaining difference is the escutcheon used for the third action screw. You’ll likely want a gunsmith to add a recess similar to the issued stock for the bolt to sit flush. The Frankensteined “CMP painted” guns released recently also do not have this recess, so it may have been machined later at crane.
There are a handful of subtle differences. The good news - All of these are cosmetic and absolutely do not impact the function or quality of the stock!
The issued stock is an early grey. I unfortunately do not have an issued tan stock to compare this against.
1. Profile view: The texturing on the new stock is slightly different and extends further (it’s hardly noticeable). This was confirmed to be due to the molds used for the early grey vs later tan stocks (thanks to @ilikebmxbikes for confirming). Everything else aligns well.
2. Top down view: This is where most of the differences are apparent.
The forearm rail screw spacing and depth varies between both stocks. The early grey has the unfinished rail, possibly driving the difference in spacing. The action pillars are closely aligned in the picture below (causing the new production stock to appear shorter). I’ve since resolved the reason for this further below.
At the rear, the action and bolt relief cuts are a bit different. This is purely cosmetic.
Update: Upon closer inspection, I confirmed the new stock is not shorter; rather, the inlet is slightly forward. When aligning based on the buttstock, rather than the pillars as I did above, it’s much easier to see this.
3. Bottoms up view. Other than the forearm rail screw spacing, the remaining difference is the escutcheon used for the third action screw. You’ll likely want a gunsmith to add a recess similar to the issued stock for the bolt to sit flush. The Frankensteined “CMP painted” guns released recently also do not have this recess, so it may have been machined later at crane.
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Excellent comparison, thank you very much for posting the pics and information for everyone to see! It's great to see some of these minor changes to the stocks because it helps protect the collector value, history and provenance of the original Navy SEAL used Mk13 McMillan stocks! The new stocks are 99% correct, so they're perfect for a clone build and no one can tell the difference between these new stocks and the military used stocks (unless you have a tape measure and the knowledge about the differences between the stocks).
I'm glad to see these stock differences for another reason, which has to do with the certificates of authenticity. I still have about 50 to 100 Kelly McMillan signed and dated certificates that don't currently have serial numbers on them. When I issue a certificate for a specific stock, I grab a certificate from the pile and I write the last 4 digits of the serial number on the certificate. Over the past 7 years, I've given certificates to friends who have acquired real Navy SEAL used Mk13 McMillan stocks that weren't part of the group of 155 DRMO Mk13 stocks that I owned/sold. Over that 7 year period of time, I've only certified 3 or 4 real Mk13 stocks that weren't part of the group of 155 DRMO stocks. I take this very seriously, and I require the full provenance of a legit Mk13 stock, detailed photos of the stock, and other information that helps determine it's authenticity.
Even though I've only certificated 3 or 4 stocks that weren't in the DRMO group, I've had over a dozen stocks that were presented to me that didn't pass my authenticity test. The owners of those stocks wanted to increase the value of their regular civilian A2 stocks, and they thought that it would be easy to get an official certificate of authenticity from me. Those people tried to get me to certify stocks that aren't real Navy SEAL used Mk13 McMillan stocks, and I absolutely refused to give them a certificate for their civilian stock.
With this new batch of Mk13 A2 McMillan stocks being released, I was afraid of people buying them, faking the characteristics and wear to make the civilian stocks look like military used stocks, and then ask me for a certificate of authenticity. It's great to see that there's measurable physical differences between the original military used Mk13 stocks and these new civilian A2 stocks! With the information from @Werk125's excellent comparison post, I have new information to use when people ask me to certify their "legit" Mk13 stock in the future (which will happen, I guarantee it). Now I can have those people send me detailed photos of specific areas of the stock in question, and also provide an overall length measurement (minus the buttpad and spacer system).
One of the main reasons that the original DRMO McMillan Mk13 stocks have become so popular with collectors and have skyrocketed in price is mainly due to having an actual, irrefutable certified provenance that can't be faked. There's numerous security features in the certificates of authenticity that I issued with the real military used Mk13 stocks. I did this to ensure that no ine could fake my certificates, and so far I haven't come across a single example of one of my Mk13 certificates being faked (unlike the generic McMillan M40A1 stock certificates that are often faked). I spent a lot of time/money/effort working on those certificates and finding ways to protect the provenance of the real Mk13 stocks, and prevent "fake" civilian A2 stocks from being passed off as original Navy SEAL used Mk13 stocks. This effort has led to an extremely high degree of trust and confidence in my certifying process and knowing that a stock with one of my certificates is the real deal.
Even though I'm still willing to issue certificates of authenticity for Mk13 stocks that can be proven to be 100% original US military used, I want everyone to be aware that I take this very seriously and I won't allow anyone to pass these new A2 stocks off as fake military Mk13 stocks. Like I said before, some people have tried to get their fake Mk13 stocks certified by me, and I wouldn't allow it. I have no doubt in my mind that with this new release of civilian A2 stocks, someone at some point will try to fake the characteristics and military provenance, and attempt to get a certificate of authenticity from me. I can assure everyone here that I will not let this happen.
And if anyone does have a legit US military used Mk13 stock that needs a certificate, please let me know and I'll do what I can to determine it's authenticity. If it can be proven 100% to be legit, then I'll send out a certificate with the stock's serial number on it. If anyone has one of my certificated Mk13 stocks and the original certificate gets damaged, please send it back to me and I'll send you a new certificate. Any certificate that I send out if 100% free, I'll even cover all shipping costs on the certificates. These certificates are a huge deal to collectors because it turns a $1,200 "maybe" into a $4,000+ "guarantee"! That's a substantial price difference between a certified US military used Mk13 stock and a civilian A2 stock, and this is why people sometimes try to fake the characteristics and provenance of a civilian A2 stock in order to get a certificate from me. And when I certify a real stock, it's not completely unilateral, I also reach out to a few other experts to verify anything that I believe to be authentic. If there's anything even remotely questionable about a stock, it doesn't get a certificate.
I don't make a single penny on certifying real Mk13 stocks, even though my certificate will add thousands of dollars in value to the stock in question. I do all of this for you guys, for this community. I hate seeing fake items and I hate seeing people get ripped off, so I do what I can to prevent thise from happening to Mk13 collectors/historians/enthusiasts. Sorry for the long post, but everyone who owns an original US military used Mk13 stock (or will try to acquire an original Mk13 stock in the future) needs to know this information. As collectors, you guys have spent a lot of money on these real US military take-off parts, like these original Mk13 stocks. I want you all to know that your certificates of authenticity actually mean something, and they are there to protect your investment.
If anyone has any questions about the Mk13 certificates that I have, or how I certify stocks, please ask me in this thread. Thanks to great people like @Werk125 who are sharing information about the differences between legit military issued Mk13 stocks and the newly made civilian A2 stocks, we can all knowledgeable about this topic and we can prevent fake Mk13 stocks from being brought into the market. Obviously, with enough time/money/effort ANYTHING is able to be faked, but let's share our knowledge and make it extremely difficult for anyone to create and attempt to pass off a fake Mk13 stock. Whenever a company decides to remake/re-release an old, discontinued products like these A2 stocks, we as collector community need to protect the legacy, authenticity, and provenance of the original items. I hope that McMillan releases more of these new A2 stocks into the collector market, and I hope that more people have the opportunity to build an amazing Mk13 clone! It is possible for original items and newly produced items to exist in the same marketplace without having the legacy and value of the original items diminish, and this is how that happens.
@Werk125, thank you very much for the great post, please continue to inspect your two stocks and let us know if there's any other differences between them. Also, can you please provide measurements of the different lengths (minus the buttpad and spacer system), and a photo of the tape measure on each stock so that we can see exactly how you're measuring them (for repeatability)? If anyone else here has both an original US military Mk13 stock with one of my certificates and one of the newly released A2 stocks, can you please post some comparison photos and measurements as well? The more information we have available to us, the better! Thank you very much in advance for anyone who is able to help collect this information!
@Werk125, I forgot to include your certificate of authenticity in the box with that original Mk13 stock, but I'll mail it out to you this week. Since your stock has the rifle's full serial number written on the masking tape on the side of the butt (and it matches the last 4 serial number in the barrel channel), I decided to do something very special for your certificate of authenticity! Here's the certificate I'll be mailing out to you, and I hope that you like the deviation from how I marked all the rest of the certificates! This certificate is definitely one-of-a-kind with the full serial number being recorded, as opposed to just the last 4 digits that are in the barrel channel:
Fantastic comparison, thanks @Werk125
Since I won’t have a return stock in the near future, knowing my repro is close is nice consolation
Another difference. McMillan has changed their fill material in the intervening years. It’s easiest to see in the lighter forend material, the older material still contained some fibers in the foam for structure, you can see where they’ve caught and protrude slightly in the return stock. The repro uses pure foam with no fibers, and is much smoother in texture.
Since that’s an early gray Mk13 stock, I can’t comment on the later tan Mk13 stocks, but it’s an easy way to date most McMillan stocks.
@USMCSGT0331 I applaud you for your attention to detail to provide authenticity! You rank up with John Kopeck of the Colt 1873 (Peacemaker) fame for knowledge and search for what s true. You are a tremendous resource like John.
Having seen some of the Colts sent to him for authentication I know what you go through to provide it. There is nothing cooler than being able to handle a firearm that has direct lineage to a historical event (Custer’s folly and others).
Even more so with the military’s modify and replace/repair policies over the past 200 years.
Having seen some of the Colts sent to him for authentication I know what you go through to provide it. There is nothing cooler than being able to handle a firearm that has direct lineage to a historical event (Custer’s folly and others).
Even more so with the military’s modify and replace/repair policies over the past 200 years.
The recent mcmillan releases are cast out of the tan mk13-0 mold. If you look at their new release and compare the grip texture to a surplus tan one, the texture matches up.
I was looking at the CMP sales closely and noticed the same thing. I’ll update my post to reflect that, appreciate the confirmation.
This is not a for sale add and I don't want it to come off as some kind of scammer post. If anyone is interested in a MK13 MOD7 kit I can connect you to my buddy (a prominent gunsmith) who is selling some MK13 kits.
I told him I would spread the word.
Here is the parts kit components for Mod7 builds that my friend has:
New/Unissued NSN AI Mod7 chassis
New Lilja Mod7 bbl blank
New/Unissued Geissele Super MK13 trigger
New Mod5/7 recoil lug
New SF SOCOM 762RC 4-prong flash hider
FYI they $4,750/ea
There are only 4 available and will be sold first come, first served. He is still able to acquire New deployment cases also, available for $630.
IF anyone is interested please pm me and I will give you his contact info.
He is willing to give a discount on building / gunsmithing services if you chose to have him build it out too.
Hopefully this doesn't violate any forum rules, I am just trying to pass on some information for some near impossible parts to build a military clone correct mk13.
I told him I would spread the word.
Here is the parts kit components for Mod7 builds that my friend has:
New/Unissued NSN AI Mod7 chassis
New Lilja Mod7 bbl blank
New/Unissued Geissele Super MK13 trigger
New Mod5/7 recoil lug
New SF SOCOM 762RC 4-prong flash hider
FYI they $4,750/ea
There are only 4 available and will be sold first come, first served. He is still able to acquire New deployment cases also, available for $630.
IF anyone is interested please pm me and I will give you his contact info.
He is willing to give a discount on building / gunsmithing services if you chose to have him build it out too.
Hopefully this doesn't violate any forum rules, I am just trying to pass on some information for some near impossible parts to build a military clone correct mk13.
Here are some pictures of my rifles I picked up from red bull armory a few weeks ago, not very good pics, I will try to get some proper pictures this weekend and post them.
Mod 0 & 3 have original bolts my mod 3 bolt and stock serial numbers match the mod 3 barrel is an original used take off possibly onfrom the same rifle as my stock and bolt.
Mod 0 & 3 have original bolts my mod 3 bolt and stock serial numbers match the mod 3 barrel is an original used take off possibly onfrom the same rifle as my stock and bolt.
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He also has a line on receivers , I don't know the price, you would have to talk to him
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