Man shot with own gun during traffic stop

kenny1773 · Sunday at 12:39 PM

I didn't see this posted, hope its not a duplicate

You can't make this stuff up.

I am sure the officers were only concerned for their own safety, because you know...

Glad I live in a state where you are not required to say you have a weapon on you, but I also know when the police run your drivers license number you are flagged as a CCW holder, so they know.

91Eunozs · Sunday at 1:01 PM

Looks like his lawyer has her shit together… He gon’ get paid bigly.

W54/XM-388 · Sunday at 1:11 PM

Yet another example of why that evil made up idea of "qualified immunity" needs to be completely gotten rid of.
The Uniform Hanger should be sitting in jail right now.

Hecouldgoalltheway · Sunday at 1:20 PM

C'mon guys. That was a clear accident. Easily stupidity by an incompetent DEI hire, but it obviously wasn't intentional. He will get a multi-million dollar lawsuit. Nobody should be charged for that. Fired? Sure, get rid of the idiot, but it was stupidity, not malice.

mosin46 · Sunday at 1:23 PM

wow. lucky he didn't hit the femur or femoral artery. contact wound with a 45 is real bad. a glock? stupid pig had to have had her hand/finger on the trigger. most of us prob carry a striker fired. quality piece in proper working order ain't going bang til you pull the trigger. jax FL? wonder what they carry. bet a glock and any cop should know not to pull on the trigger when handling the gun.
guy seems calm,reasonable and articulate. likely makes good $s. running a crane with bum leg is not a good thing. quality weapon. one does need to be armed in jax,fl. it's a shit hole many places.
attorney was calm and articulate and kinda cute. wasn't playing the outraged race card. gonna get a lot of support in FL. a whole bunch of CC people here and most of us are suspicious of cops to start with.
cops were assholes for starters. FHP gave me a ticket awile back. when the guy came up to window,i told him i was armed. he said yea,just don't take you hands off the wheel and reach down. all was cool.
here in FL,i am unsure what the law really is about saying you are armed when dealing with cops,esp in a traffic deal.
back the blue. want them to get home safe so they can continue their corruption,abuse and stupidity later.

Holliday · Sunday at 2:51 PM

Hecouldgoalltheway said:
C'mon guys. That was a clear accident.

You spelled “malicious negligence resulting in grave bodily injury” wrong.

It became malious when they instructed an improperly trained DEI to disarm him.

It became further malicious when she ignored his warning to let him loosen his belt/drawstring. Instead of listening to the owner of the firearm who was wearing said firearm, she chose to ignore him, treat him like a common criminal and apply unreasonable force to that weapon, causing it to discharge. Had this bullet hit his femoral he would’ve been dead. I doubt they had the proper training to stop a femoral bleed out fast enough.

Her indifference afterwards shows a further distain for this citizen and the fact that she nearly killed him, due to her malicious negligence.

Heaven forbid, they find out she was a fast tracked improperly trained DEI, which she likely was. Heaven forbid they go through her social media/text messages etc and find any racism or overt distain for law abiding gun carrying citizens.

I hope he gets a HUGE payout.

With qualified immunity going nowhere soon. (in fact Trump wants to, and pledge during his candidacy, to increase their immunity.) DEI increasing, this is going to get a lost worst before it gets better. DEI has no place in policing.

Holliday · Sunday at 2:53 PM

91Eunozs said:
Looks like his lawyer has her shit together… He gon’ get paid bigly.

As well he should! Ironic a DEI lawyer going after a DEI cop but on the surface she sounds competent. I was surprised she tipped her hand on the medical though.

Hecouldgoalltheway · Sunday at 2:55 PM

Holliday said:
You spelled “malicious negligence resulting in grave bodily injury” wrong.

It became malious when they instructed an improperly trained DEI to disarm him.

It became further malicious when she ignored his warning to let him loosen his belt/drawstring. Instead of listening to the owner of the firearm who was wearing said firearm, she chose to ignore him, treat him like a common criminal and apply unreasonable force to that weapon, causing it to discharge. Had this bullet hit his femoral he would’ve been dead. I doubt they had the proper training to stop a femoral bleed out fast enough.

Her indifference afterwards shows a further distain for this citizen and the fact that she nearly killed him, due to her malicious negligence.

Heaven forbid, they find out she was a fast tracked improperly trained DEI, which she likely was. Heaven forbid they go through her social media/text messages etc and find any racism or overt distain for law abiding gun carrying citizens.

I hope he gets a HUGE payout.

With qualified immunity going nowhere soon. (in fact Trump wants to, and pledge during his candidacy, to increase their immunity.) DEI increasing, this is going to get a lost worst before it gets better. DEI has no place in policing.

I don't disagree with anything you've said, but for whatever purpose we serve in this discussion, it's abundantly clear that it wasn't intentional, at least not by the crash test dummy that popped his hi-point into his leg.

mosin46 · Sunday at 3:07 PM

Holliday said:
As well he should! Ironic a DEI lawyer going after a DEI cop but on the surface she sounds competent. I was surprised she tipped her hand on the medical though.

on the surface,she doesn't look like DEI type lawyer. she might have let that out to get a quicker closure. any lawyer on the other side is gonna see a huge unfightable medical issue. hard to say whether she wants a faster closure or other things to churn. any payout is usually not done until med is rated as max med improvement. guy will not likely need to run cranes anymore.

TexPatriot · Sunday at 3:09 PM

kenny1773 said:
I didn't see this posted, hope its not a duplicate

You can't make this stuff up.

I am sure the officers were only concerned for their own safety, because you know...

Glad I live in a state where you are not required to say you have a weapon on you, but I also know when the police run your drivers license number you are flagged as a CCW holder, so they know.

Why did they make him exit the truck and frisk him?

mosin46 · Sunday at 3:10 PM

because they are incompetent,ignorant or scared shitless?

Hecouldgoalltheway · Sunday at 3:11 PM

TexPatriot said:
Why did they make him exit the truck and frisk him?

I'm sure it's the policy of every police office on earth to disarm anyone in any activity where an illegal act is assumed to have occurred, or some such verbiage.

mosin46 · Sunday at 3:12 PM

not in my personal experience with FHP as above.

Hecouldgoalltheway · Sunday at 3:18 PM

mosin46 said:
not in my personal experience with FHP as above.

I'm sure there is some officer discretion allowed there. My point was about the question. There will be a policy that says they were supposed to disarm him.

Also, would it change anything if the bodycam videos come out and it didn't actually happen the way he's describing it? We are hearing the absolute most positive public version of the story. I'm just saying that one should temper judgement until you've seen both sides.

918v · Sunday at 3:19 PM

Holliday said:
You spelled “malicious negligence resulting in grave bodily injury” wrong.

It became malious when they instructed an improperly trained DEI to disarm him.

It became further malicious when she ignored his warning to let him loosen his belt/drawstring. Instead of listening to the owner of the firearm who was wearing said firearm, she chose to ignore him, treat him like a common criminal and apply unreasonable force to that weapon, causing it to discharge. Had this bullet hit his femoral he would’ve been dead. I doubt they had the proper training to stop a femoral bleed out fast enough.

Her indifference afterwards shows a further distain for this citizen and the fact that she nearly killed him, due to her malicious negligence.

Heaven forbid, they find out she was a fast tracked improperly trained DEI, which she likely was. Heaven forbid they go through her social media/text messages etc and find any racism or overt distain for law abiding gun carrying citizens.

I hope he gets a HUGE payout.

With qualified immunity going nowhere soon. (in fact Trump wants to, and pledge during his candidacy, to increase their immunity.) DEI increasing, this is going to get a lost worst before it gets better. DEI has no place in policing.

BS

TexPatriot · Sunday at 3:21 PM

Hecouldgoalltheway said:
I'm sure it's the policy of every police office on earth to disarm anyone in any activity where an illegal act is assumed to have occurred, or some such verbiage.

I understand they had him exit the truck to disarm him. Aside from him legally carrying a firearm, why did they frisk him?

Frisking someone isn't part of issuing a ticket for running a red light.

mosin46 · Sunday at 3:28 PM

asking the driver to step out is very unusual in fact. makes no sense if the driver is asked to keep hands in sight and on wheel. if he does so,there should be no issue. most any way you carry would be pretty obvious going for the gun while seated behind the wheel.
change when body cams come out? being held back? very suspicious. prob being edited. hope the lawyer has sense enough to have it studied for alteration by her independent experts.

EddieNFL · Sunday at 3:31 PM

Hecouldgoalltheway said:
I'm sure it's the policy of every police office on earth to disarm anyone in any activity where an illegal act is assumed to have occurred, or some such verbiage.

Lived in FL for 40 years, less remote tours and deployments. I get stopped about once every two years. As long as I’ve had a CCL (late 80s I think), I pass it along with DL. I’ve never been removed from the vehicle/disarmed. With one exception, the cops asked where it was, sometimes what it is, give me back my documents and ask me to slow down.

Hecouldgoalltheway · Sunday at 3:31 PM

mosin46 said:
asking the driver to step out is very unusual in fact. makes no sense if the driver is asked to keep hands in sight and on wheel. if he does so,there should be no issue. most any way you carry would be pretty obvious going for the gun while seated behind the wheel.
change when body cams come out? being held back? very suspicious. prob being edited. hope the lawyer has sense enough to have it studied for alteration by her independent experts.

I'm not a lawyer or a cop, but if that story has some details that he left out of his version, it might make more sense. Maybe he had a record, not felonies, but bad stuff? What if he or his vehicle matched the description of someone they were actively looking for? Maybe he wearing a furry costume during the event, or was drunk or high, or hell I don't know. Just plenty of possibilities that it may have been less simple..

EddieNFL · Sunday at 3:37 PM

Hecouldgoalltheway said:
I'm not a lawyer or a cop, but if that story has some details that he left out of his version, it might make more sense. Maybe he had a record, not felonies, but bad stuff? What if he or his vehicle matched the description of someone they were actively looking for? Maybe he wearing a furry costume during the event, or was drunk or high, or hell I don't know. Just plenty of possibilities that it may have been less simple..

Lots of info missing. Did the cop have sufficient training? Does she dislike minorities? Did the Glock clear the holster and her booger hook trip the trigger?

Hecouldgoalltheway · Sunday at 3:41 PM

EddieNFL said:
Lots of info missing. Did the cop have sufficient training? Does she dislike minorities? Did the Glock clear the holster and her booger hook trip the trigger?

All cops dislike minorities. 99% of their trouble and danger come from minorities, they are constantly sued by minorities, they are witnessing the culture in their faces. You couldn't be a cop for more than a few months and not dislike minorities. How do you determine or enforce thoughts? Seems pretty Orwellion.

mosin46 · Sunday at 3:47 PM

Hecouldgoalltheway said:
All cops dislike minorities. 99% of their trouble and danger come from minorities, they are constantly sued by minorities, they are witnessing the culture in their faces. You couldn't be a cop for more than a few months and not dislike minorities. How do you determine or enforce thoughts? Seems pretty Orwellion.

fair point. about the same with ER nurses,EMTs,firemen in my experience. none of those carry guns routinely or have arrest power so issue is deeper and more complex with cops.

kenny1773 · Sunday at 4:05 PM

TexPatriot said:
Why did they make him exit the truck and frisk him?

Take a long hard look at him and see if anything maybe jumps out at you as to why an officer might treat him that way (and I am not black, oooops I said it)

EddieNFL · Sunday at 4:08 PM

Now I don’t know which side to take.

mosin46 · Sunday at 4:16 PM

kenny1773 said:
Take a long hard look at him and see if anything maybe jumps out at you as to why an officer might treat him that way (and I am not black, oooops I said it)

not a cop,don't know. big scary looking dude. but,was me,i would rather have him in the car with hands on wheel in view rather than out side where i might have to fight him-LOL-or where he can get to a gun easier. stay behind drivers area by rear tail light,hard to get shot that way. seems to me like some more macho or fear driven cop bullshit.

TexPatriot · Sunday at 7:57 PM

kenny1773 said:
Take a long hard look at him and see if anything maybe jumps out at you as to why an officer might treat him that way (and I am not black, oooops I said it)

No need to take a long hard look at him. DWB is obvious and his lawyer, if she's at least as smart as Hawk-tuah Harris, should have no problem using it in her case.

mosin46 · Sunday at 8:17 PM

yea cops abused a big scary looking black guy because. shows at trial/hearing to be a normal working guy,the price goes way up.

pmclaine · Sunday at 8:23 PM

Hecouldgoalltheway said:
I'm sure it's the policy of every police office on earth to disarm anyone in any activity where an illegal act is assumed to have occurred, or some such verbiage.

Nope.

pmclaine · Sunday at 8:23 PM

Hecouldgoalltheway said:
I'm sure there is some officer discretion allowed there. My point was about the question. There will be a policy that says they were supposed to disarm him.

Also, would it change anything if the bodycam videos come out and it didn't actually happen the way he's describing it? We are hearing the absolute most positive public version of the story. I'm just saying that one should temper judgement until you've seen both sides.

Nope.

Hecouldgoalltheway · Sunday at 8:44 PM

pmclaine said:
Nope.

pmclaine said:

Nope.

Well then you've declared yourself an activist, not bothered by the truth, just a desire to see your agenda accomplished. It's probably the wrong way to approach anything..

Click to expand...

Holliday · Sunday at 9:43 PM

Hecouldgoalltheway said:
I'm sure it's the policy of every police office on earth to disarm anyone in any activity where an illegal act is assumed to have occurred, or some such verbiage.

This has not been my experience. Colorado State Trooper (female) stopped me for 85 in a 65 on my motorcycle.

Because I was headed out of state on a multi state trip, I had all my papers in my breast jacket pocket. She walked up and I asked if I could pull my ear plugs, once out, I informed her I was ccw and carrying my sidearm. She asked where it was and then said ok. Thanks for letting her know.

I asked permission to get my papers out of my breast pocket which included my Colorado ccw (I lived in Colorado then.) She said she was going to her cruiser and would be right back. I asked if I could get off the motorcycle while I waited because I didn’t feel safe sitting on the bike next to the highway. She said yes, when she came back, she gave me her business card and said she was giving me a warning and let me go.

mosin46 · Sunday at 9:52 PM

damn i never get that lucky. they say thanks and here's your ticket.

Maser · Sunday at 9:55 PM

I only watched like a minute of the vid, but I will say NEVER talk to the media or take the witness stand. Let your lawyer do all the talking.

Holliday · Sunday at 9:58 PM

Hecouldgoalltheway said:
I don't disagree with anything you've said, but for whatever purpose we serve in this discussion, it's abundantly clear that it wasn't intentional, at least not by the crash test dummy that popped his hi-point into his leg.

If I am drunk and crash into you, paralyzing you from the waist down, how do you think your lawyer will argue “willful negligence”. Perhaps that terminology though “malicious in nature” will make more sense here.

Hecouldgoalltheway said:
All cops dislike minorities. 99% of their trouble and danger come from minorities, they are constantly sued by minorities, they are witnessing the culture in their faces. You couldn't be a cop for more than a few months and not dislike minorities. How do you determine or enforce thoughts? Seems pretty Orwellion.

Assuming racial bias, which she already mentioned, that in and of itself is an intention act, that could be argued to have set these event in motion.

Mark my words this is how she will argue this case, if she is any good at all. That said, we will likely never know. She’ll present this in summary during initial prep for trial, and they will settle for an obscene amount of money. In my opinion, in this case, the more of obscene the better.

Holliday · Sunday at 10:03 PM

Maser said:
I only watched like a minute of the vid, but I will say NEVER talk to the media or take the witness stand. Let your lawyer do all the talking.

Relieved to see I am not the only one who felt that way. One thing I have learned is that you cannot trust your lawyer not to let you keep your pie hole shut.

The Baldwin case was shocking. So many hours of interviews and many with their lawyers present. Those tapes were some of the most damning evidence in both Hannah Gutierrez trial and in Baldwin’s. I was dumbfounded that the lawyer let this happen.

ironpony52 · Sunday at 10:04 PM

Thank God it wasn't a P320

Holliday · Sunday at 10:09 PM

EddieNFL said:
Lots of info missing. Did the cop have sufficient training? Does she dislike minorities? Did the Glock clear the holster and her booger hook trip the trigger?

Well (if true as she said) the fact that they are stonewalling on the body cams and other info is “interesting”.

It always seems when the body cams clear officers, they are out in light speed. If they are damning, it seems they are always held back as long as possible.

mosin46 · Sunday at 10:21 PM

got to give editing stuff out a try

louu · Monday at 8:12 AM

I'm dying to hear the lawyer say the word "ask"

myronman3 · Monday at 8:38 AM

Hecouldgoalltheway said:
C'mon guys. That was a clear accident. Easily stupidity by an incompetent DEI hire, but it obviously wasn't intentional. He will get a multi-million dollar lawsuit. Nobody should be charged for that. Fired? Sure, get rid of the idiot, but it was stupidity, not malice.

you're pretty gracious about someone else being shot.

myronman3 · Monday at 8:54 AM

Hecouldgoalltheway said:
I'm sure there is some officer discretion allowed there. My point was about the question. There will be a policy that says they were supposed to disarm him.

Also, would it change anything if the bodycam videos come out and it didn't actually happen the way he's describing it? We are hearing the absolute most positive public version of the story. I'm just saying that one should temper judgement until you've seen both sides.

Hecouldgoalltheway said:
I'm not a lawyer or a cop, but if that story has some details that he left out of his version, it might make more sense. Maybe he had a record, not felonies, but bad stuff? What if he or his vehicle matched the description of someone they were actively looking for? Maybe he wearing a furry costume during the event, or was drunk or high, or hell I don't know. Just plenty of possibilities that it may have been less simple..

i haven't been around a lot since last winter. you are the biggest "back the blue" apologist and excuse maker i've seen. you automatically assume wrong doing by a citizen and even stretch and reach for shit you have no fucking idea of.

listen closely......"innoncent until proven guilty" and THAT is the way things are supposed to be. your fucking problem is you got that backwards. you are the fucking problem.

Hecouldgoalltheway said:
All cops dislike minorities. 99% of their trouble and danger come from minorities, they are constantly sued by minorities, they are witnessing the culture in their faces. You couldn't be a cop for more than a few months and not dislike minorities. How do you determine or enforce thoughts? Seems pretty Orwellion.

awe bullshit. it never occurred to you that when they get sued, and lose, they were IN THE WRONG.

i've tried to be fair and reasonable when reading your posts. but the more you post, the more i realize how wrong you are. you are so wrong, so often......i am starting to see your screen name and automatically cringe. it's that bad.

Hecouldgoalltheway · Monday at 9:30 AM

myronman3 said:
i haven't been around a lot since last winter. you are the biggest "back the blue" apologist and excuse maker i've seen. you automatically assume wrong doing by a citizen and even stretch and reach for shit you have no fucking idea of.

listen closely......"innoncent until proven guilty" and THAT is the way things are supposed to be. your fucking problem is you got that backwards. you are the fucking problem.

awe bullshit. it never occurred to you that when they get sued, and lose, they were IN THE WRONG.

i've tried to be fair and reasonable when reading your posts. but the more you post, the more i realize how wrong you are. you are so wrong, so often......i am starting to see your screen name and automatically cringe. it's that bad.

I stopped reading at the first sentence. You are ridiculous dude. You can't label me, you don't have any authority here or anywhere else to do that. Do you know the extreme followers that believe everything authority figures say and militantly defend the status quo? You are every bit as extreme, and on the opposite end of the spectrum. You are the blue haired non-binary cat lady of the anti cop movement. You don't need to see all the facts, I got a 30 second story on the news, Hang the fucking cops!!!!!! Arggggg

I'm a little smarter than that. I've been fooled by the news before, so now I don't trust them, (even when the story feeds your anti-cop fantasies), so, I'll reserve judgement until I've seen all of the facts.

Imagine how radical I am, I won't even agree to kill everyone without hearing all of the facts. I won't let a news story send me into a rage. I'm not a sheep buddy, peer pressure doesn't work. I don't care if you like me, I don't want to be in your club, I'm not going to conform. You condemn people based on 10% of the information. You should work on yourself.

EddieNFL · Monday at 9:41 AM

- Cops stop traffic offender
- Offender complies with cop’s orders
- Cop triggers offender’s legal possessed firearm injuring him
- Other cops apologize
- Shooter doesn't open her mouth
- Offender is not arrest for “resisting”

Can’t wait for body cam footage or statements from the cops involve that will exonerate the shooter. Should be released any day now.

myronman3 · Monday at 9:46 AM

Hecouldgoalltheway said:
I stopped reading at the first sentence. You are ridiculous dude. You can't label me, you don't have any authority here or anywhere else to do that. Do you know the extreme followers that believe everything authority figures say and militantly defend the status quo? You are every bit as extreme, and on the opposite end of the spectrum. You are the blue haired non-binary cat lady of the anti cop movement. You don't need to see all the facts, I got a 30 second story on the news, Hang the fucking cops!!!!!! Arggggg

I'm a little smarter than that. I've been fooled by the news before, so now I don't trust them, (even when the story feeds your anti-cop fantasies), so, I'll reserve judgement until I've seen all of the facts.

Imagine how radical I am, I won't even agree to kill everyone without hearing all of the facts. I won't let a news story send me into a rage. I'm not a sheep buddy, peer pressure doesn't work. I don't care if you like me, I don't want to be in your club, I'm not going to conform. You condemn people based on 10% of the information. You should work on yourself.

so you've painted yourself into a corner with your bullshit, then you try to change it up by pointing your finger at someone who's pointed out how wrong you are.

i've seen this before. hopefully it works in your mind....because you aint fooling anyone else.

EddieNFL · Monday at 10:16 AM

If this wasn’t already covered.

From JSO memo…

On July 1, 2023, it became lawful in Florida to carry a concealed firearm without a permit for those who are 21 years old or older.
"The burden of proving an individual is not eligible to carry a concealed firearm falls on the investigating officer and is not an automatic presumption," the memo states. "Unless an officer has articulable suspicion that the detained person presents a threat to the safety of citizens or officers or has knowledge that the detained person is ineligible to carry a concealed firearm, officers should not seize a firearm (i.e. remove it from holster, vehicle, pocket, bag, etc.) from someone lawfully carrying it."

Also stated the driver owned the gun legally and is not facing any criminal charges, but may face a traffic infraction for running a red light.

JSO MEMO

Hecouldgoalltheway · Monday at 10:18 AM

myronman3 said:
so you've painted yourself into a corner with your bullshit, then you try to change it up by pointing your finger at someone who's pointed out how wrong you are.

i've seen this before. hopefully it works in your mind....because you aint fooling anyone else.

Please explain what corner I've painted myself into?

Again, you don't get to label me, so stop trying. You're not an authority on anything fella. All I've done is continually point out that there are two sides to every story, and I'm not dumb enough to make a judgement without hearing the full story. You take a sliver of information and make grand assumptions about these situations, and now me and my character. How old are you? That's a serious question. I'm 44, and it will give this conversation some reference if I know how old the person I'm speaking with is. I'm going to guess you're in your late 60's, but that's just a guess.

cgbills · Monday at 10:19 AM

First to add some clarity, FL is a constitutional carry state now. Thats what they were referring to the change in the video. As such, he doesn’t need to be a CCW holder and the officer doesn’t need to verify anything.

Second, a traffic violation is not a criminal act. So the comment about cops disarming people when they do something “illegal” is not applicable. If he committed a crime or was suspected of committing a crime, that would be different. A mere traffic violation is not sufficient. This is where the civil rights violation comes in, they infringed on his second and fourth (illegal search and seizure) amendment rights. That is unless they had some type of articulable suspicion that he did do something illegal or he was making threats, etc

EddieNFL · Monday at 10:23 AM

Hecouldgoalltheway said:
You take a sliver of information and make grand assumptions about these situations,

Speaking of assumptions…

Hecouldgoalltheway said:
I'm sure it's the policy of every police office on earth to disarm anyone in any activity where an illegal act is assumed to have occurred, or some such verbiage.

Hecouldgoalltheway · Monday at 10:25 AM

EddieNFL said:
Speaking of assumptions…

And you're assuming that I'm wrong without any information on your own. Everyone on SH in the cop hater threads is a legal scholar. Crazy all these legal minds are wasted on arguing about shit like this when they could be doing something useful.

918v · Monday at 10:28 AM

Man, this is worse than when that cop, who was the only one professional enough to have a gun, shot himself in the leg in the classroom.

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