Recommend me a new scale

NJRaised · Saturday at 12:10 AM

Been using a Hornady auto charge pro (the newer model) for loading 223 for PRS tac class. I have consistently struggled with high ES (up to 80 fps over 20 rounds). At this point, I’m starting to think it’s my auto charge. I had a buddy load some of my ammo up using his fx120i, and should have results from the range soon.

Assuming , it’s the scale and powder charge, are there any decent options that aren’t gonna run be $1k+ like the fx120 and trickler combo? I’m not seeking insane levels of performance, but an ES of 80 isn’t cutting it. Can I expect better with the charge master supreme or matchmaster? I know it’s also +\-.1 grain or +\-.02 respectively.

Any real world expectations of what you guys run for for 223 and your numbers? I don’t know if I can stomach $1k right now

AudiDat · Saturday at 8:51 PM

If your Hornady Auto Charge Pro is causing high ES, the RCBS Chargemaster Supreme or Matchmaster could be solid upgrades, both should improve consistency, but don’t expect FX120i-level performance. For .223 PRS, many get good results with the Supreme for under $1k, though the Matchmaster is more precise if you can stretch your budget.

NJRaised · Saturday at 10:07 PM

So I went out and shot a string after having my buddy load my powder with his fx120i.

ES went from 80fps to 18fps using his scale, SD down to 8 from 25.

So it was my scale for sure.

Now to figure out what to replace my scale with without breaking the bank

vh20 · Saturday at 10:59 PM

If my ES went from 80 to 18 just by switching to a 120i, I’d be finding a way to fit a 120i into my budget. (Actually, I did). That scale, combined with an IP Trickler (even though I’m still manually dropping the bulk of the load) has revolutionized my reloading experience and made it SO much better.

Conaso · Sunday at 6:50 AM

vh20 said:
If my ES went from 80 to 18 just by switching to a 120i, I’d be finding a way to fit a 120i into my budget. (Actually, I did). That scale, combined with an IP Trickler (even though I’m still manually dropping the bulk of the load) has revolutionized my reloading experience and made it SO much better.

I purchased the fx120i and manually drop powder also. Now I'm trying to figure which components I need at a minimum to work the IP Trickler into my budget. My volume of reloading doesn't justify the cost but ...

Rider47 · Sunday at 7:11 AM

Your range test appears to be definitive, but I would also first recommend throwing 10-20 charges into vials and having them measured on a top tier analytical balance. This will let you know how good/bad/ugly your AutochargePro is throwing. I'm not familiar with that machine, but are there modifications that will make it more precise? (FYI - There are several easy mods for some models of the Chargemaster including reducing input and output orifice sizes and reprogramming speed change set points that significantly improve precision.) Another approach would be to continue to use your Autocharge throwing charges into vials, and then do secondary measurement and adjustment using a very good scale. Load from vials rather than directly from your dispenser. Excellent true laboratory grade electronic balances can be purchased used at a fraction of the cost of a new unit (i.e. Mettler or Sartorius, NOT Chinese!).

Maurygold · Sunday at 7:56 AM

^ this. You should NOT see that kind of improvement from an extra tenth of powder resolution unless your scale is very broken

Throw 10 and measure those on the 120i

Doom · Sunday at 10:27 AM

Maurygold said:
^ this. You should NOT see that kind of improvement from an extra tenth of powder resolution unless your scale is very broken

Throw 10 and measure those on the 120i

Also I am assuming he loaded in your cases? If not the test is meaningless. Also you seem to have only shot 3-5 rounds to base your decision on. Not nearly enough.

Amazon has a Gem 20 scale that is quite good for about $30 that you can use as a check scale. It might be worth the trouble to have it anyway.

PatMiles · Sunday at 11:39 AM

NJRaised said:
So I went out and shot a string after having my buddy load my powder with his fx120i.

ES went from 80fps to 18fps using his scale, SD down to 8 from 25.

So it was my scale for sure.

Now to figure out what to replace my scale with without breaking the bank

Break the damned bank! The FX120i will pay you dividends for the rest of your shooting career!

03machstock · Sunday at 12:36 PM

I have a chargemaster supreme that I was using. Very fast and easy to set up.
I recently got a supertrickler. Not so easy to set up, but obviously much more accurate.

I threw 20 or so charges of varget on the chargemaster supreme and weighted them on the fx120i and if my memory serves me right it was about .3 for extreme spread.

I haven’t loaded any .223 with the supertrickler yet, but in theory the smaller the case capacity, the more the difference in charge weight will have an effect.

I won’t be getting rid of my chargemaster, but I do like the piece if mind the fx120i gives me.

vh20 · Sunday at 12:55 PM

Conaso said:
I purchased the fx120i and manually drop powder also. Now I'm trying to figure which components I need at a minimum to work the IP Trickler into my budget. My volume of reloading doesn't justify the cost but ...

You already have the scale and the power measure (dropper). All you need to run the IP Trickler (besides the trickler itself) can be ordered from AutoTrickler. You need: 1) The AutoTrickler V3 electronics that plug into your 120i, 2) The cable to connect the V3 electronics to the IP Trickler, and 3) The AutoTrickler power supply (it replaces the one that comes with the scale, which apparently doesn't supply enough current to run the scale AND the trickler). Total cost of the parts to run your scale with the IP Trickler is just over $100.00. Then you need to download the free AutoTrickler app to control it. On the other hand, I believe since I ordered mine, Paul has now released the electronic control portion of the IP system, which means you could order everything from him (it wasn't released yet when I got mine, and he sent me to AutoTrickler for the parts, and even emailed me the links to what I would need from them when I ordered the IP Trickler from him). If you can get the control from IP now, that would be a better way to go since it will also work with his complete system if you ever decide to upgrade.

It's a great setup! I'm in on the earliest pre-orders for the complete system coming (someday?) from IP. I ordered the complete system over a year ago and it still hasn't been released. So back in November I got tired of manually trickling every charge and taking forever, so I just ordered the IP Tricker and the above parts and I'm so much better off. When my pre-order is finally ready, I have the option to change the order to just the "Upgrade" since I already have the Trickler. I'm thinking of going ahead and leaving it for the full system, and keeping the extra Trickler for a back-up. But it really won't be that much of an "upgrade" in my opinion, because the way what I have is working now is almost as fast as the full system will be.

straightshooter1 · Sunday at 1:05 PM

NJRaised said:
So I went out and shot a string after having my buddy load my powder with his fx120i.

ES went from 80fps to 18fps using his scale, SD down to 8 from 25.

So it was my scale for sure.

Now to figure out what to replace my scale with without breaking the bank

That's like my experience going from my ChargeMaster to the FX-120i. Not only did my SD's and ES's improve dramatically like that, but the speed for charging cases really wasn't hardly any different. I didn't want to spend $500 on a scale as I had already spent on other cheaper scales that seemed like they'd work out, but their drifting was a hassle. It's the old cry once thing I should have heeded to.

Get the FX! You won't be sorry.

Baron23 · Sunday at 2:04 PM

NJRaised said:
Been using a Hornady auto charge pro (the newer model) for loading 223 for PRS tac class. I have consistently struggled with high ES (up to 80 fps over 20 rounds). At this point, I’m starting to think it’s my auto charge. I had a buddy load some of my ammo up using his fx120i, and should have results from the range soon.

Assuming , it’s the scale and powder charge, are there any decent options that aren’t gonna run be $1k+ like the fx120 and trickler combo? I’m not seeking insane levels of performance, but an ES of 80 isn’t cutting it. Can I expect better with the charge master supreme or matchmaster? I know it’s also +\-.1 grain or +\-.02 respectively.

Any real world expectations of what you guys run for for 223 and your numbers? I don’t know if I can stomach $1k right now

I have a MatchMaster and it works pretty good. I run it in match mode. Now, I'm a vet and RCBS has a great LEO/MIL/VET discount program that made it a reasonably priced purchase.

With that said, I'm waiting on the IP full powder drop system (out in the next few months....hopefully....from my keyboard to god's ear....and if the creek don't rise lol) for my next upgrade.

Cr1775 · Sunday at 2:21 PM

Somthing is wrong with the Hornady scale. I started with a RCBS Chargemaster lite and was able to get es around 15 to 20. Upgraded to a AT v4 and able to get sd of 5 to 10.
Was the upgrade worth it, well it's a hell lot faster.

Dead Eye Dick · Sunday at 7:30 PM

The easiest way to upgrade and not break the bank is to purchase a good beam scale and a powder trickler. Use your Hornady to throw the charges, set .2 - .3 grains light, put the charge on the scale and trickle it up.

having worked with a popular brand that is well cared for, I see the electronic scales just being electronic powder throws. Not accurate for even light plinking loads.

At our son’s home, I use his electronic scale to throw the charge, then set it on a beam scale. At home, I use a hand throw. Actually a bit quicker than waiting for the electronic scales to throw the charge.

375fan · Sunday at 7:49 PM

Several years ago, maybe longer as I lose track of time, a shooting friend , who is very good, told me I needed to do a serious upgrade to what I was using for scales and get something high end. He said it would shrink my verticals at distance. I had been using a Lyman GEN 5 scale/dispenser. Anyway, I bought a Sartorious I64 scale, it measures to 3 digits to the right of decimal. It immediately made a huge difference in es and my vertical at distance. Use the scale to test my Lyman gen 5 and a Lyman gen 6 plus the top end RCBS for a friend. None of them are as accurate as claimed, 1-1.5 grain variations from charge to charge.
The Sartorious is pricey but worth it IMO.

Bandit320 · Sunday at 8:09 PM

This^^^^. Get a good scale, keep it clean. Use it on a solid surface where the are no breezes. Get a good set of calibration weights, M1 or better. Calibrate your scale as close to your chosen throw weight as possible with your calibration weights.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09ZYC6HNZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

Approach your throw weight from below with a trickler, any will work but this is the one I use and it does a great job of dropping a kernel at a time.

https://dandyproductsllc.com/products/dandy-2-speed-electric-powder-trickler

If you go over, remove more then necessary and re-approach from the bottom. In analog systems approaching a set point from different directions will give small but different results.

This sounds like a long process, but with a ChargeMaster Lite throwing 0.2 under and a scale I can regularly measure a 300 PRC load in about 30 seconds.

You can see the scale move with each kernel if using stick powder. You’ll also see how much your electric powder dispenser really drifts.

375fan · Sunday at 8:14 PM

Bandit320 said:
This^^^^. Get a good scale, keep it clean. Use it on a solid surface where the are no breezes. Get a good set of calibration weights, M1 or better. Calibrate your scale as close to your chosen throw weight as possible with your calibration weights.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09ZYC6HNZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

Approach your throw weight from below with a trickler, any will work but this is the one I use and it does a great job of dropping a kernel at a time.

https://dandyproductsllc.com/products/dandy-2-speed-electric-powder-trickler

If you go over, remove more then necessary and re-approach from the bottom. In analog systems approaching a set point from different directions will give small but different results.

This sounds like a long process, but with a ChargeMaster Lite throwing 0.2 under and a scale I can regularly measure a 300 PRC load in about 30 seconds.

You can see the scale move with each kernel if using stick powder. You’ll also see how much your electric powder dispenser really drifts.

Excellent post, that's pretty much my routine to the letter.

Rocketmandb · Sunday at 8:28 PM

NJRaised said:
Now to figure out what to replace my scale with without breaking the bank

Just get the FX120i - it's the easiest way to save money, believe it or not. I spent far more on the scales I had leading up to the FX120i than i did on it. You can get just the scale for around $500 and then upgrade by adding an autotrickler later.

Emerson0311 · Sunday at 9:16 PM

Dead Eye Dick said:
The easiest way to upgrade and not break the bank is to purchase a good beam scale and a powder trickler. Use your Hornady to throw the charges, set .2 - .3 grains light, but the charge on the scale and trickle it up.

having worked with a popular brand that is well cared for, I can’t see the electronic scales just being electronic powder throws. Not accurate for even light plinking loads.

I throw by hand, but use this procedure. It works well.

Dead Eye Dick · Sunday at 9:44 PM

Emerson0311 said:
I throw by hand, but use this procedure. It works well.

I throw by hand as well at home. At our son’s home, I use his electronic scales to throw the charge and then get the weight by a beam scale.

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Recommend me a new scale

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