Rifle Scopes Kahles or ZCO upgrade

CouchRestShooter

CouchRestShooter

Private
Minuteman
Nov 25, 2023
7
10
Florida
#1
Hello all, I have been using a Vortex Strike Eagle 5x25x56 the past two years with some great results out to 850. However, recently I have been practicing dialing in more at various distance, and it seems my scope tracking isn’t that great. Then of course the little things are beginning to irritate me. That said, I think I might be ready to appreciate an upgrade.

Kahles and ZCO both appear to have many positives. ZCO might have a slightly better customer service program in the states.

I’m leaning towards the k540i DLR, but that might just be overkill for me at this point. Not to mention that the k328i DLR is already in the wild.

ZCO 840 has a lower multiplier, I’m guessing that means that higher zoom will be clearer.

Anyway, I need some help trying to get a grip on expectations. For all with more experience than me, what would you do if you were at two years into long range with longest distance being 850 yards?
 
Last edited:
#2
CouchRestShooter said:
Hello all, I have been using a Vortex Strike Eagle 5x25x56 the past two years with some great results out to 850. However, recently I have been practicing dialing in more at various distance, and it seems my scope tracking isn’t that great. Then of course the little things are beginning to irritate me. That said, I think I might be ready to appreciate an upgrade.

Kahles and ZCO both appear to have many positives. ZCO might have a slightly better customer service program in the states.

I’m leaning towards the k540i DLR, but that might just be overkill for me at this point. Not to mention that the k328i DLR is already in the wild.

ZCO 840 has a lower multiplier, I’m guessing that means that higher zoom will be clearer.

Anyway, I need some help trying to get a grip on expectations. For all with more experience than me, what would you do if you were at two years into long range with longest distance being 850 yards?
Click to expand...
First off I have never used a Kahles, but have multiple ZCO 527s and 840s. They are spectacular. I was a NF ATCAR 7-35 user before moving to ZCO. the NF was a really rugged, well built scope but the ZCO was to my eyes much brighter and the contrast was so much better that I could see details much better at 25 on a 527 than I could at 33 on the NF. I have chosen the 840 for my longer range rifles as my older eyes and expectations from my prior shooting background (Bench Rest). All that said the FOV on higher mag scopes can be limiting. I often find my target at 25 and zoom for bullet placement. Reality is a person with halfway decent eyes can do 850 yards with much less than 25x, on my 45-90 BP sharps I have made routine hits on steel at 800+ with peep sights. Go for the scope that provides you with the clearest target picture. If possible hit a long range match and ask to try peoples equipment to decide your direction.
 
#3
CouchRestShooter said:
Hello all, I have been using a Vortex Strike Eagle 5x25x56 the past two years with some great results out to 850. However, recently I have been practicing dialing in more at various distance, and it seems my scope tracking isn’t that great. Then of course the little things are beginning to irritate me. That said, I think I might be ready to appreciate an upgrade.

Kahles and ZCO both appear to have many positives. ZCO might have a slightly better customer service program in the states.

I’m leaning towards the k540i DLR, but that might just be overkill for me at this point. Not to mention that the k328i DLR is already in the wild.

ZCO 840 has a lower multiplier, I’m guessing that means that higher zoom will be clearer.

Anyway, I need some help trying to get a grip on expectations. For all with more experience than me, what would you do if you were at two years into long range with longest distance being 850 yards?
Click to expand...

Give me a call at 916-628-3490 and I can go over the Pros and Cons of each scope with you :) - Richard
 
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#5
The ZCOs check a lot of boxes as the glass is as good or better than just about anything out there and they’re solidly built with relatively few complaints of guys having issues (and seems in the rare case issues happen, their CS backs up the product and makes things right quickly).

Having spent some time looking through the newer K328i, I can say that the larger FOV is indeed pretty cool, but the glass isn’t quite up to the ZCO’s level for the same money and Kahles’ reputation for CS seems to be not quite as good as ZCOs…

The new K540i DLR looks cool (and features-wise better than the 328 IMO), but it’s still so new that there’s no way to tell if it will be durable/solid or if they’ve got all the bugs worked out just yet…

So in the end I guess it just comes down to whether or not you’d rather play it safe with a top-shelf known quantity, or go for the latest and greatest at the risk of being an early adopter?

I know for myself that I’ve been burned enough times being an early adopter with shit that I’m no longer going to do it, especially in this time when it sometimes seems that manufacturers use their consumers as beta-testers. So with something like a $4K scope, I tend to lean towards the safe bet until enough time has passed and there are enough units out in the wild to where I’m not risking being a Guianea pig.
 
#9
About the only real thing that attracted me to Kahles is the left windage knob. However, the ZCO MPCT3x is very nice. So maybe that will reduce the need to make wind adjustments and just hold. I normally zoom in until the mirage hits, then back off. On hot days, that has kept the max to around 15x with what I have now. A few weeks ago it was cool enough that I was able to zoom all the way in, but felt like watching an old tv from the 80s. So, I cannot imagine what 40x would look like through anything. I have not seen anyone at the ranges in my area with either of these brands.

I definitely do not want to be the Guianea pig. It sounds like general consensus is to go with ZC527 and don't expect that the ZC840 will be really useful at max most of the time.

Do any of you guys use the 10mil turret or tried it?
Any thoughts on trade offs for non vs locking turrets?
 
#10
CouchRestShooter said:
About the only real thing that attracted me to Kahles is the left windage knob. However, the ZCO MPCT3x is very nice. So maybe that will reduce the need to make wind adjustments and just hold. I normally zoom in until the mirage hits, then back off. On hot days, that has kept the max to around 15x with what I have now. A few weeks ago it was cool enough that I was able to zoom all the way in, but felt like watching an old tv from the 80s. So, I cannot imagine what 40x would look like through anything. I have not seen anyone at the ranges in my area with either of these brands.

I definitely do not want to be the Guianea pig. It sounds like general consensus is to go with ZC527 and don't expect that the ZC840 will be really useful at max most of the time.

Do any of you guys use the 10mil turret or tried it?
Any thoughts on trade offs for non vs locking turrets?
Click to expand...

I will say that the majority of PRS shooters I know, interact with or are well known use or prefer the 10MIL Non Locking Elevation turret.
When it comes to reticle, all the ZCO X reticles are still popular and it comes down to personal preference. If you are typically under 20X then I'd recommend the ZC527. You can also use this for a reference https://precisionrifleblog.com/2025...g-range-precision-shooting-what-the-pros-use/

If you have more questions, you have my number :) - Richard
 
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#14
CouchRestShooter said:
About the only real thing that attracted me to Kahles is the left windage knob. However, the ZCO MPCT3x is very nice. So maybe that will reduce the need to make wind adjustments and just hold. I normally zoom in until the mirage hits, then back off. On hot days, that has kept the max to around 15x with what I have now. A few weeks ago it was cool enough that I was able to zoom all the way in, but felt like watching an old tv from the 80s. So, I cannot imagine what 40x would look like through anything. I have not seen anyone at the ranges in my area with either of these brands.

I definitely do not want to be the Guianea pig. It sounds like general consensus is to go with ZC527 and don't expect that the ZC840 will be really useful at max most of the time.

Do any of you guys use the 10mil turret or tried it?
Any thoughts on trade offs for non vs locking turrets?
Click to expand...

I've shot 2-3 matches and a bunch of practice sessions with my ZCO now, and I've barely touched the parallax knob... it's super forgiving. IIRC I just set mine ~700 yards and then shoot anything from ~300-1000 yards without needing to touch it.

10mil NLE is what I have and it's great, the windage is still locking which is all I need.
 
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#15
MPCT3x = go ZCO imho (if you like trees)

Screw Kahles, who are owned by Swaro, who in turn is the dickbag behind that idiotic FOV patent. It’s a bad enough situation that @koshkin won’t even review Kahles/Swaro anymore.

But I do think on reticles alone, ZCO has it.

Plus CSTactical seems very up on the CS aspect of ZCO.

This is a rather uniformed opinion as I’ve never touched either scope brand.
 
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#19
This sold me on zoo mpct2x
www.snipershide.com

Zero Compromise Optic MPCT2X Reticle Design

Follow Sniper's Hide and pick up the latest information on all things precision rifle related. Sniper's Hide Training is for the serious tactical marksman.
www.snipershide.com www.snipershide.com
1738868929592.png
 
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#21
CK1.0 said:
it's super forgiving. IIRC I just set mine ~700 yards and then shoot anything from ~300-1000 yards without needing to touch it.
Click to expand...
I am curious did you check for parallax error as well in that range or just image clarity? Because I noticed with my ZP5 that the best image and parallax free isn't always on the same setting.
 
#22
Guthwine said:
I am curious did you check for parallax error as well in that range or just image clarity? Because I noticed with my ZP5 that the best image and parallax free isn't always on the same setting.
Click to expand...

I was just talking about how forgiving it is to shoot at various ranges while having the parallax knob parked on one generic do-it-all setting.

If I were to really examine things at the different ranges, I'm sure there would be a little bit of parallax error while using a cookie-cutter setting (depending on where I have it parked in relation to what distance I'm shooting), but the ZCO isn't picky and maintains great image clarity without a lot of fuss. It looks really good over a wide range of distances without requiring constant parallax adjustment as compared to other scopes I've had.

For PRS matches, and for the size of targets we typically see, one can easily shoot a whole day and maybe only touch the parallax knob a few times (or less). I've had quite a few days where I've adjusted the parallax to check my zero at 100, then set it somewhere in the 500-700 yard range and forgot about it for the rest of the day.
 
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#30
I have a ZCO 840 and just got a new Kahles 540i in. Got em both mounted and am heading to the range tomorrow and pitting them head to head. I’ve ran the 840 for the last season and love it. Just messing around with them in the back yard I have a very hard time seeing a difference in glass quality but I’m limited on how far I can look. I do like the feel of the ZCO turrets a little better, but the FOV on the Kahles is crazy I set them both at 25x and the ZCO has about 16mils edge to edge, and the Kahles has a whopping 20 edge to edge. I attached some pictures to try to show the difference but obviously a lot is lost in a phone through a scope photo. But you can see the FOV difference. They are both set to 12 power in the photo. I’ll be glad to report my findings.
 

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#31
Clayt6499 said:
I have a ZCO 840 and just got a new Kahles 540i in. Got em both mounted and am heading to the range tomorrow and pitting them head to head. I’ve ran the 840 for the last season and love it. Just messing around with them in the back yard I have a very hard time seeing a difference in glass quality but I’m limited on how far I can look. I do like the feel of the ZCO turrets a little better, but the FOV on the Kahles is crazy I set them both at 25x and the ZCO has about 16mils edge to edge, and the Kahles has a whopping 20 edge to edge. I attached some pictures to try to show the difference but obviously a lot is lost in a phone through a scope photo. But you can see the FOV difference. They are both set to 12 power in the photo. I’ll be glad to report my findings.
Click to expand...
Anxious to hear your thoughts.
 
#32
So just got back from the range. Unfortunately the weather didn’t play nice down here in Georgia much for me and it was extremely wet and foggy/misty. Couldn’t see the 400 yard targets with naked eye when I pulled up to the range so I’m holding my judgement for better weather. In today’s conditions, the ZCO was better clarity wise. Not by a huge amount, but noticeable enough. The Kahles almost seemed the want to take on the grey of the fog in the sight picture so colors weren’t as nice through it was the real difference. Also there is a tiny bit of distortion at the edges of the picture of the Kahles that isn’t as noticeable in the ZCO. However, the full view of the Kahles was significantly better than the ZCo with the body of the scope disappearing into a much thinner ring on the Kahles making it way easier to shoot with both eyes open (something I severely struggle with) than the ZCO. Also the FOV is huge as expected. Could spot rounds going into targets easier with the Kahles most likely due to that. Build wise, I can’t tell any difference. Everything feels nice and well made and no wobble. Kahles Zero system is easier than the ZCO, not that ZCO is rocket science, but the Kahles is borderline dummy proof. This is not my final verdict because I want to get them out into mirage the do a true test, but as it stands currently, if you have an 840 and you like it, don’t sell it to buy the Kahles. If you have a lower tier Kahles, sell it and upgrade, while you can cause I imagine this is going to drive the 525s and 328s down in price. Is it $200 better than the ZCO? Absolutely not, and if you tend to shoot closer to 16x rather than 20x or higher, the FOV gain is arguably not even a huge deal. I’m probably going to run the Kahles in the MPA Spring shootout next month and keep the ZCO around at least until then and see how it feels in a match before I make a final decision. Also, side note, can premium manufactures like ZCO and Kahles stop being douche canoes and toss a $60 sunshade in the box with these things?

Also, I know the original post was about coming out of a strike eagle, and brother, either of these is going to make that feel like a Tasco 3-9 World class. But hey, my granddaddy told me that was all the scope you’d ever need in this world. Lol
 
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#33
Clayt6499 said:
So just got back from the range. Unfortunately the weather didn’t play nice down here in Georgia much for me and it was extremely wet and foggy/misty. Couldn’t see the 400 yard targets with naked eye when I pulled up to the range so I’m holding my judgement for better weather. In today’s conditions, the ZCO was better clarity wise. Not by a huge amount, but noticeable enough. The Kahles almost seemed the want to take on the grey of the fog in the sight picture so colors weren’t as nice through it was the real difference. Also there is a tiny bit of distortion at the edges of the picture of the Kahles that isn’t as noticeable in the ZCO. However, the full view of the Kahles was significantly better than the ZCo with the body of the scope disappearing into a much thinner ring on the Kahles making it way easier to shoot with both eyes open (something I severely struggle with) than the ZCO. Also the FOV is huge as expected. Could spot rounds going into targets easier with the Kahles most likely due to that. Build wise, I can’t tell any difference. Everything feels nice and well made and no wobble. Kahles Zero system is easier than the ZCO, not that ZCO is rocket science, but the Kahles is borderline dummy proof. This is not my final verdict because I want to get them out into mirage the do a true test, but as it stands currently, if you have an 840 and you like it, don’t sell it to buy the Kahles. If you have a lower tier Kahles, sell it and upgrade, while you can cause I imagine this is going to drive the 525s and 328s down in price. Is it $200 better than the ZCO? Absolutely not, and if you tend to shoot closer to 16x rather than 20x or higher, the FOV gain is arguably not even a huge deal. I’m probably going to run the Kahles in the MPA Spring shootout next month and keep the ZCO around at least until then and see how it feels in a match before I make a final decision. Also, side note, can premium manufactures like ZCO and Kahles stop being douche canoes and toss a $60 sunshade in the box with these things?

Also, I know the original post was about coming out of a strike eagle, and brother, either of these is going to make that feel like a Tasco 3-9 World class. But hey, my granddaddy told me that was all the scope you’d ever need in this world. Lol
Click to expand...
Bad weather/conditions scope reviews are probably more valuable than fair weather ones.

Good review, thanks a ton!
 
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#34
Also side note, if you get the Kahles, be prepared to either run rings or a taller mount. I have a Hawkins 1.27” mount that my ZCO easily cleared. I got lucky and got the Kahles level in it and where I wanted to, but clearance is tighhhhttt. I included a picture. Id recommend a 1.35 or higher mount if that’s the way you want to run
 

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#35
Based on OP replacing scope. I was able to get some range time today on my new ZC527 at Bradford Sportsman Farm, Graham, FL. It was mostly cloudy.

Man alive what a leap. I put my old SE 5x25 on an old rifle just to be able to see differences. The first thing I notice was the etching in the reticle being able to contrast darker areas. For example, shooting a steel popper a few times removes the white paint and on the SE 525 it would almost get washed out at distance. However, the ZCO recticle was able to contrast it well enough to still be able to easily recognize where it was in relation. FOV wasn’t much different, but the amount of light and clarity was off the chart. Definitely going to need a sun shade. It does seem odd that one is not in the box. Anyway, I’m very happy and blessed to have a scope like this. However, it’s going to be very difficult to run a budget scope on anything else now that I know firsthand what the differences are.

I got the 10 mil non locking elevation knob, and that was a major improvement in itself. I love the way ZCO addresses the zero stop.

Hopefully I’ll get a chance to see a Kahles firsthand one day.

Walking in the zero without suppressor
1739669890227.jpeg
 
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#36
CouchRestShooter said:
Based on OP replacing scope. I was able to get some range time today on my new ZC527 at Bradford Sportsman Farm, Graham, FL. It was mostly cloudy.

Man alive what a leap. I put my old SE 5x25 on an old rifle just to be able to see differences. The first thing I notice was the etching in the reticle being able to contrast darker areas. For example, shooting a steel popper a few times removes the white paint and on the SE 525 it would almost get washed out at distance. However, the ZCO recticle was able to contrast it well enough to still be able to easily recognize where it was in relation. FOV wasn’t much different, but the amount of light and clarity was off the chart. Definitely going to need a sun shade. It does seem odd that one is not in the box. Anyway, I’m very happy and blessed to have a scope like this. However, it’s going to be very difficult to run a budget scope on anything else now that I know firsthand what the differences are.

I got the 10 mil non locking elevation knob, and that was a major improvement in itself. I love the way ZCO addresses the zero stop.

Hopefully I’ll get a chance to see a Kahles firsthand one day.

Walking in the zero without suppressor
View attachment 8618593
Click to expand...
Can’t go wrong with either of them coming up from the old SE. and I know the pain of getting to use the nice stuff, makes the cheaper stuff hard to want to use and that makes my wallet cry
 
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#37
I recently went through this. 328i was purchased with the intent of selling it, but wanted it to compare to my 420 ZCO. Not exactly apples to apples mag range wise.
I’ve spent the last two years running the ZCO.
Glass wise (I’m kind of a snob) I quite literally couldn’t see much of a difference. At times, the Kahles was brighter and the ZCO out resolved. The next day it was opposite.
For me, the biggest difference was in the fit and finish, turrets, zeroing, and the FOV. I prefer the turrets on the Kahles, the resetting or zeroing of the turrets on the Kahles, but the biggest win was the FOV. It’s absolutely massive and I just couldn’t seem to pick up the ZCO anymore. The 328i for me just wins. And genuinely seems brighter in low light. And I really was hoping for a different outcome. Really enjoy Jeff and Nick from ZCO and the company is just top notch, probably the best out there. At this time, I just prefer the Kahles.
 
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#38
Pronghunter said:
I recently went through this. 328i was purchased with the intent of selling it, but wanted it to compare to my 420 ZCO. Not exactly apples to apples mag range wise.
I’ve spent the last two years running the ZCO.
Glass wise (I’m kind of a snob) I quite literally couldn’t see much of a difference. At times, the Kahles was brighter and the ZCO out resolved. The next day it was opposite.
For me, the biggest difference was in the fit and finish, turrets, zeroing, and the FOV. I prefer the turrets on the Kahles, the resetting or zeroing of the turrets on the Kahles, but the biggest win was the FOV. It’s absolutely massive and I just couldn’t seem to pick up the ZCO anymore. The 328i for me just wins. And genuinely seems brighter in low light. And I really was hoping for a different outcome. Really enjoy Jeff and Nick from ZCO and the company is just top notch, probably the best out there. At this time, I just prefer the Kahles.
Click to expand...
I think the 328i for a rifle that does double duty at an NRL Hunter/actual hunting rig would be a match made in heaven. Big FOV would help finding targets in NRL and the light gathering of Swarovski glass coatings is literally world renowned. The real answer to this question comes when the Swarovski patent on the FOV tech expires and ZCO and TT and all the heavy hitters can make scopes with the FOV tech. But that’s not going to be until mid 2026 if you aren’t tracking. ZCO glass with the Kahles FOV and I’d write a blank check
 
#39
Clayt6499 said:
So just got back from the range. Unfortunately the weather didn’t play nice down here in Georgia much for me and it was extremely wet and foggy/misty. Couldn’t see the 400 yard targets with naked eye when I pulled up to the range so I’m holding my judgement for better weather. In today’s conditions, the ZCO was better clarity wise. Not by a huge amount, but noticeable enough. The Kahles almost seemed the want to take on the grey of the fog in the sight picture so colors weren’t as nice through it was the real difference. Also there is a tiny bit of distortion at the edges of the picture of the Kahles that isn’t as noticeable in the ZCO. However, the full view of the Kahles was significantly better than the ZCo with the body of the scope disappearing into a much thinner ring on the Kahles making it way easier to shoot with both eyes open (something I severely struggle with) than the ZCO. Also the FOV is huge as expected. Could spot rounds going into targets easier with the Kahles most likely due to that. Build wise, I can’t tell any difference. Everything feels nice and well made and no wobble. Kahles Zero system is easier than the ZCO, not that ZCO is rocket science, but the Kahles is borderline dummy proof. This is not my final verdict because I want to get them out into mirage the do a true test, but as it stands currently, if you have an 840 and you like it, don’t sell it to buy the Kahles. If you have a lower tier Kahles, sell it and upgrade, while you can cause I imagine this is going to drive the 525s and 328s down in price. Is it $200 better than the ZCO? Absolutely not, and if you tend to shoot closer to 16x rather than 20x or higher, the FOV gain is arguably not even a huge deal. I’m probably going to run the Kahles in the MPA Spring shootout next month and keep the ZCO around at least until then and see how it feels in a match before I make a final decision. Also, side note, can premium manufactures like ZCO and Kahles stop being douche canoes and toss a $60 sunshade in the box with these things?

Also, I know the original post was about coming out of a strike eagle, and brother, either of these is going to make that feel like a Tasco 3-9 World class. But hey, my granddaddy told me that was all the scope you’d ever need in this world. Lol
Click to expand...
Great review I’m only wary of the customer service of Kahles.
 
#43
Hard to say it’s a set number of mils because it just seemed to be a consistent amount no matter the magnification so at about 20-25x I’d say it starts to be slightly noticeable at the 2 mil mark and was very noticeable at the 1 mil mark from the edges. I’ll try to pay better attention the next time I have them both out. Got a friend with a power line on his property that I’m going to go to where I can test them both at around 1000 yards
 
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