Mk 13 Mod 0 stock
- Thread starter pmclaine
- Start date
What’s up guys, here’s my mod 5 recently finished off after several years of piecing it together. Minus glass, action and barrel, the rest of the rifle is surplus.
Hoping someone has the knowledge to answer a question though. On the early 700 actions, “G” prefix paired with the MARS, did they have the M16 extractor mod done at this point? Mine came back from being built without it done, so double checking.
Thanks!
Hoping someone has the knowledge to answer a question though. On the early 700 actions, “G” prefix paired with the MARS, did they have the M16 extractor mod done at this point? Mine came back from being built without it done, so double checking.
Thanks!
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Anyone know what this Federal Ammunition sticker is? Came on my Mod 5 stock.
Huh. Now that's interesting.
When I was in industry several manufacturers had bar-code tags like that on their pressure and precision testing weapons for NATO / .mil ammunition EPVAT testing. Test technicians could do a quick scan to ensure consistency across ammo lots using the same rifle.
Never seen a UID tag for ammo on a rifle. The Federal ammo would have been Mk 248 Mod 1. I would only expect the UID tag on perhaps a full pallet of such ammo, as the value is supposed to be $5k or more, but perhaps it also applies to “consumable” ammo? Anyhow, who knows how it ended up on that chassis, but it’s definitely a neat little artifact from its prior service life.
“UID requirements
The UID is required for equipment with an acquisition cost over $5,000, as well as mission-critical equipment, controlled inventory, and consumable equipment.”
“UID requirements
The UID is required for equipment with an acquisition cost over $5,000, as well as mission-critical equipment, controlled inventory, and consumable equipment.”
I keep getting conflicting info...
The mk13 mod 5 recoil lug. Was it the L shaped lug, or a standard 0.25" remington shaped lug?
The mk13 mod 5 recoil lug. Was it the L shaped lug, or a standard 0.25" remington shaped lug?
L lug wont fit in an AI chassis. Its a .25" "Crane Lug" - if you have Redbull armory build your mod 5, he can supply you a recoil lug. I highly recommend him, he will get your barrel taper 100% correct. Most places seem to be like 85% right.
The L shaped recoil lugs were only used in the pre-Mk13, Mk13 Mod 0, Mk13 Mod 1, Mk13 Mod 3, and a few old and obscure SEAL sniper rifles and target rifle from the 1980’s.
The Mk13 Mod 2, Mk13 Mod 5, Mk13 Mod 6, and Mk13 .7.62x51mm training rifles all used the .25" straight profile (no taper) recoil lug that was water jet cut and made for Crane NSWC by a local machine shop.
Due to the cheap and fast water jet cutting, the original Crane .25" straight side recoil lugs for the Mk13's that used a chassis, were very rough and they don't have a perfectly circular hole in them. The reproduction recoil lugs that Chris Higgins had made for his customer's Mk13 clone builds are much better quality than the original Crane water jet cut recoil lugs. Have Chris built your Mk13 and he'll throw a perfect reproduction recoil lug onto your rifle!
@ilikebmxbikes, had a great response above, I'm just adding some basic information to what he's already provided. I hope this helps!
I thought the L shape was wrong, my return stock has a normal inlet.
It's going to LRI, couldn't get a response back from Redbull or 2 other smiths.
Based on @USMCSGT0331 I'll have to track down a straight wall lug or send my A6 lug to him to grind down to .25".
Please post a few photos of your stock (left and right side), the stock's inletting, and the certificate of authenticity. If you don't want to post the photos publicly, you can send them to me in a private message and I'll take a look. This will allow us to see what's going on with your stock. Also, do you want my assistance with reaching out to Chris Higgins at Red Bull Armory? I'll do whatever I can to help you get your build done by him, if you'd like any assistance with that. Chris is normally extremely busy, which cuts down on his responses to people making inquiries. I know that gunsmiths should reply at their soonest convenience, but sometimes they're extremely busy and they forget to contact a potential client. Let me know if you would still like to have Chris build your Mk13 clone, and I'll reach out to him.
What "return" stock do you have? One of the McMillan stocks for the Mk13 Mod 0 and Mod 3 sniper rifles? Or do you have a used AI chassis? If you have a surplus McMillan stock, does it have my certificate of authenticity with it (with the stock's serial number writen on the certificate)?
If you indeed have a McMillan Mk13 stock, and it doesn't have the inletting for an L shaped recoil lug, there's a few things that could have happened.
1) You might have a regular civilian McMillan A2 stock that someone passed off as original military surplus
2) You might have an original military surplus Mk13 stock, but was modified in the civilian world to use a regular recoil lug
Option #1 isn't too rare, on occasion I see people trying to pass off civilian stocks as real deal military Mk13 stocks. People even bring me civilian stocks to look at, hopeing that I'll give them a certificate of authenticity for it (which I don't do and I turn them away, more information in that in the paragraphs below).
Option #2 is pretty rare, but it happens, especially when Dan Ross is building the Mk13 Mod 0/3 rifle. Dan fills in the L shaped recoil lug inlet, and then cuts a new inlet for a regular .25" recoil lug and veds it in place. He then cuts the shank off a screw and glues that screw into the recoil lug screw hole on the underside of the real Mk13 stock. This allows him to use a regular/standard .25" thick recoil lug, but with the screw head glued into the hole on the underside of the stock, it gives the appearance of looking like he actually used an L shaped recoil lug and screw on the clone build.
Dan and other gunsmiths that build the Mk13 clones like this aren't doing it for nefarious purposes. They discuss this modification with the stocks owner and they make the decision together to use a regular .25" recoil lug and flued in screw head on the client's clone build. They do this to save time and effort, and they do this when an L shaped recoil lug can't be found for the cline build.
Every single original McMillan Mk13 stock I've ever sold came with either an original L shaped recoil lug, or a reproduction L shaped recoil lug. So, all 155 of the original Navy SEAL used McMillan Mk13 stocks I sold had the correct recoil lug. People who purchased civilian stocks directly from McMillan don't have a ln L shaped recoil lug to go with their stock, so they're stuck using a regular .25" flat recoil lug on their clone build.
Additionally, every single original surplus/DRMO Mk13 stock that I sold (155 of them) has the inletting for an L shaped recoil lug. And every single newly discovered original surplus/DRMO Mk13 stock that has been brought to me and I've verified it's authenticity (about 5 of them) has the inletting for an L shaped recoil lug. There are NO EXCEPTIONS to this rule, all of the original McMillan Mk13 surplus/DRMO stocks are inletted for an L shaped recoil lug, including the 1 single left-hand Mk13 Mod 1 stock that I certified. Here's a link to the left-hand Mod 1 stock, if anyone wants to see it. This stock came out of Crane long ago, and I was able to verify it's provenance. I'm pretty sure that this is also the only original surplus/DRMO McMillan Mk13 stock that didn't have bedding compound in the inletting:
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1074214929
A few things to mention, those original Navy SEAL used McMillan Mk13 stocks aren't "return" stocks. They never went to McMillan, they were sold at DRMO and I purchased the entire group of 155 original Mk13 stocks. McMillan never touched the used stocks, none of them. I also created all the certificates of authenticity. I did the write-up, I drew the crossed Mk13 Mod 0 watermark, I designed the overall certificates, and I hired and paid for an actual certificate company in New York to print them.
The only part McMillan had a hand in was Kelly McMillan wet signing and dating every single certificate. So, the certificates went to me, then I swnt them to Kelly to sign, and then he mailed them back to me. After that, I wrote the last 4 digits of each stock's original serial number (the 4 digit number is written in the barrel channel) on each certificate. So, the signature and date were done by Kelly, and the 4 digit serial number was done by me. That's why the handwriting for the serial number looks different than the handwriting for the signature and date.
I even sent a blue pen to Kelly to use when signing/dating the certificates, and I had him send me back that exact pen so I could write each stock's serial number on the certificates. The signature, date, and serial number were done with the exact same pen. I still have that specific pen, and I use it to write the serial numbers of newly discovered Mk13 stocks onto certificates that Kelly already signed and dated.
I still have almost 100 Mk13 certificates of authenticity that have been signed and dated by Kelly McMillan, only the serial number area is currently blank. Whenever someone finds an original Mk13 McMillan stock that I can verify to be 100% legitimate Navy SEAL used from Crane, I'll issue a new certificate to that person so they can have it with their stock. Since I still have about 100 or so certificates that are signed and dated by Kelly, I don't have to worry about running out of the certificates that I had made.
I thoroughly analyze each Mk13 stock that friends show me, and I won't issue a new certificate to the stock if I can't verify it's authenticity. I've issued about 5 certificates to go with newly discovered and verified original Navy SEAL used Crane Mk13 McMillan stocks. People have shown me at least a dozen or more McMillan Mk13 stocks that I couldn't verify to be original US military used, and I never issued any certificates of authenticity for those unverified stocks.
The certificates of authenticity that I spend a ton of time making can turn a $1,500 unknown stock into a $4,000+ stock as soon as the stock's owner receives the certificate. This is a substantial increase in value for those Mk13 stocks, so it's up to me to ensure that I only issue certificates of authenticity to Mk13 McMillan stocks that I can verify to be 100% original, without question. People have tried faking the military use for civilian purchased/owned McMillan Mk13 stocks, and some fuys have even asked me for a certificate to put with their newly made McMillan Mk13 stocks (new, never been used, not even any bedding in the inletting). I always turn these people away, but people still tey to get the certificates because it adds a substantial amount of value to any original McMillan Mk13 stock.
If im not cautious about this verification process, then it will devalue everyone's original SEAL used McMillan Mk13 stocks because there will be fakes mixed in with the originals from Crane. I will never let this happen! I would rather decline to issue new certificates to original Mk13 stocks, rather than risk issuing a new certificate to a single questionable stock. I'm open and transparent with this verification, and I have 2 or 3 close friends verify each stock as well. So I don't do it alone, all 3 or 4 of us have to sign off on each stock being original. If one person doesn't think it's a legit US military stock, then no certificate gets issued, even if I believe it to be real.
I'm writing all of this so that there's transparency with the certificates of authenticity and the process for getting a newly discovered stock certified, and I want to set the record straight when people call the McMillan Mk13 Navy SEAL used stocks "return stocks." This isn't a dig at you, I just read the "return stock" in your post qnd I wanted to make it very clear that stocks aren't return stocks in any way, they've never gone back to McMillan, and McMillan has absolutely no part in the certificates of authenticity or verifying newly discovered stocks. McMillan is a great company with great employees (some of whom I'm honored to call my friends), but beyond Kelly McMillan signing and dating complete certificates that I had made, McMillan doesn't have anything to do with the surplus Mk13 stocks.
Due to this, it's more accurate to call these stocks surplus or DRMO Mk13 stocks. The USMC M40A1 HTG stocks, one the other hand, actually went back to McMillan when the Corps traded them for new A4 stocks for the M40A3 sniper rifles. McMillan then turned around and sold those A1 HTG stocks to collectors, so those are true "return stocks."
Chris typically doesn't sell the individual reproduction Mk13 Mod 5/7 recoil lugs to anyone who's not having him build their rifle. This is essentially a rare perk for anyone who eants him to build their Mk13 clone. This is completely understandable because he spends a lot of time/money/effort on making/acquiring these correct reproduction recoil lugs, and he wants to save them for his customer's builds. Other gunsmiths do similar things, like having exclusive access to the correct Crane Mk13 Mod 5 barrel profile. Only a few gunsmiths have this information, and it's reserved for their customers only.
Dan Ross doesn't sell his M40A3/3 scope bases, unless he's cutting the clip slot and bullet nose cut in your receiver. He does this for a few reasons, the first of which is to reserve his scope bases for his customers who are having him build their A3/5 clones. The 2nd reason he doesn't sell his loose scope bases separately is because he's seen gunsmiths install them incorrectly, and the rifle's owner blames Dan for the rail, as opposed to placing the blame where it lies with the other gunsmith who messed up the rifle. By mounting the scope rail himself, Dan can assure people that the rail is being installed correctly and to USMC install specs. He's installed a ton of his scope rails on receivers, and there's never been any issues with it.
I hope that this helps explain why some gunsmiths do what they do, and why some of them won't sell loose parts to people who aren't doing a build with that specific gunsmith. Please know that I'm not praising or condoning this practice, I'm just explaining it to anyone who wants information. I don't know if Chris has changed anything with selling the loose recoil lugs to people who aren't doing a clone build with him, but it should automatically be assumed that you have to do a build with him in order to purchase the reproduction recoil lug. It's best to reach out to him and ask. If you guys want, I can call him this week and post his response to this question about selling loose recoil lugs to people who aren't doing builds with him. Just let me know if any of you guys want me to find that information and drop the response in this thread.
@USMCSGT0331 absolutely no hard feelings against Redbull. I get people are busy, reached out via email and phone with no answer for about 1.5 months. Again, nothing against him, his work is highly recommended here. I also understand the lug deal, makes perfect sense he would hold the lugs for his builds. Going to give it a few days and think it over but if I decide to go Redbull I'll reach out to you for sure. You've always been helpful to me in the past.
As for my stock, it's a AICS chassis, not a Mcmillan like the ones you released. It was from the first release Thoroughbred did about 6 (?) years ago. I've posted the picks before but here they are again. If anyone has any info on its history please DM me you can't make it public. I'd love to know whatever I can about it. doesn't show in the pics but under the monogram initial you can see the old dope someone had written on it with a bit of daylight.
I've heard it's either SEAL team 2 or an army groups training rifle (personally I don't believe this one based on scattered info from a trusted source).
As for my stock, it's a AICS chassis, not a Mcmillan like the ones you released. It was from the first release Thoroughbred did about 6 (?) years ago. I've posted the picks before but here they are again. If anyone has any info on its history please DM me you can't make it public. I'd love to know whatever I can about it. doesn't show in the pics but under the monogram initial you can see the old dope someone had written on it with a bit of daylight.
I've heard it's either SEAL team 2 or an army groups training rifle (personally I don't believe this one based on scattered info from a trusted source).
Thank you for posting the information and photos! The Mod 5 chassis are also just surplus/DRMO, and not "return" chassis, since they never went back to Accuracy International. I know it's such a minor thing, but I'm a stickler for proper nomenclature. You didn't mention it being a "return chassis" or anything like that in your post that I'm quoting, so this specific information is just in general for everyone who collects Mk13's, it's not as a direct response to anything you wrote. As a community, we need to keep things are correct as possible, otherwise it will lead to confusion. I'm just throwing stuff like this out there whenever I can, hopefully people will understand why I keep saying it (I'm probably also extremely annoying with this as well, lol).
Please let me know if you'd like me to reach out to Chris. It's whatever you want to do with your build, I'm just here to help with whatever I can while I'm still on the forums. You can drop me a private message if you want to discuss anything outside this thread. I can't remember if you have my phone number or not, if you do, shoot me a text when you have time. If you don't have my number, I'll send it to you in a message. One way or another, you can't go wrong with Chris or Chad Dixon at LRI doing your clone build! Both of these gentlemen are friends of mine and they both do amazing work on custom rifles! I hope I can lend a hand with anything, just let me know what you'd like me to do.
Yeah, that's definitely one of Thoroughbreds chassis kits, the sterilized case is a major feature for the Mk13 Mod 5 kits they sold. Most people don't realize it, but I actually sold about 65 to 70 Mod 5 chassis kits, and none of my cases were sterilized. Thoroughbred got quite a few kits, and we both got them from the same DRMO guy. Other dealers who purchased Mod 5 kits from the same guy received far less than what Thoroughbred and I each received. However, that wasn't the only DRMO selling the Mod 5 chassis, there has been a few releases of them over the years from different DRMO sources.
I sold my kits for a lower price than other dealers, but those prices from any of us are nothing like the prices that people are currently trying ro get on places like GunBroker! I was selling my Mod 5 chassis kits for around $1,600 each, Thoroughbred was selling similar spec'd Mod 5 kits for about $1,800 or more (they cut their prices substantially when my kits hit the market). Now people want $4,000+ for just a loose chassis only, not even a partial or complete kit!
It's crazy what some people are asking for their Mod 5 chassis now, so I'm really happy to see great guys like you get a great chassis from Thoroughbred or from me many years ago for a much lower price than what people are currently asking! I can't even imagine trying to locate and purchase a surplus/DRMO Mod 5 chassis kit these days! Definitely hamg on to that one, it's only going to increase in value!
Thank you for the info! I didn't realize you had mod5 kits at the time. I believe I snatched this up for about $2k, maybe a little more, on their first run and then a few months later I think they sold them for about 1800. it's amazing what some kits appreciate to. I regret it but In a moment of weakness I sold my A6 chassis for 10k when not more than 5 years ago you couldpick them up for 2500 on eurooptic.
I slept on it and decided I owed it to the stock to do it right so I emailed Chris again and we just got off the phone not more than 10 minutes ago. I'll be getting his quote tonight, iron out the details but my parts will likely go to him. I do not have your number but I'll be DMing you. You've helped me quite a few times all the way back to the m40rifle days.
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