BREAKING 01/31/25 6:20PM EST: Plane crashes near Philadelphia mall. ETA: Updates coming in now.
- Thread starter Blue Sky Country
- Start date
BS.
It can happen and does happen.
Those of us with thousands of hours recognize that fact and understand if we get it and how to handle it.
Modern transport category aircraft with PFDs and NDs make it easier than those of use that grew up with the standard six-pack on transport category aircraft (SA-227, A300-B4, B727, B747 classic here+more modern a/c).
Then there has to be an NTSB report citing as much as the cause of a commercial accident in IMC. Can you specify just one?
Atlas 3591, 767-300BCF in Houston.
A 60 sec seach would have yielded this at a minimum.
NTSB: Spatial Disorientation Cause of AW139 Crash | AIN
The NTSB concluded that spatial disorientation was the cause of the 2019 night AW139 crash in the Bahamas.
www.ainonline.com
NTSB: VFR Into IMC And Spatial-D Caused Kobe Bryant Crash
Continued VFR-into-IMC followed by spatial disorientation caused the crash of a Sikorsky S-76 helicopter that killed basketball star Kobe Bryant and eight others in January 2020, according to NTSB findings...
www.avweb.com
Kobe was a VFR flight, was not IFR flight plan, pt 135 cert prohibited it, aircraft was not certified for IFR. So NA.A 60 sec seach would have yielded this at a minimum.
NTSB: Spatial Disorientation Cause of AW139 Crash | AIN
The NTSB concluded that spatial disorientation was the cause of the 2019 night AW139 crash in the Bahamas.
NTSB: VFR Into IMC And Spatial-D Caused Kobe Bryant Crash
Continued VFR-into-IMC followed by spatial disorientation caused the crash of a Sikorsky S-76 helicopter that killed basketball star Kobe Bryant and eight others in January 2020, according to NTSB findings...
So was the other flight. Neither of these flights were flying on instruments or authorized to do so. VFR pilots experiencing SD happen ALL THE TIME. I personally KNEW 2 victims. Fortunately, they were solo.
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Was this SD? Yes. But this really is an edge case. An under-qualified inadequately monitored SIC being trained. The PIC should have responded to the emergency faster, but again the SIC did not alert in anyway there was an issue. And the time from the SIC incorrectly reacting to the situation *he created*, to creating the smoking hole, was 30 seconds.
The NTSB seems to think so, based on their probable cause.
Yeah CPT appeared to be startled and sitting on his hands and the FO had a history of being weak, but somatogravic illusions are very real.
From above preliminary NTSB investigation:
- Flight crew performance. The investigation examined the factors that influenced the FO’s incorrect response following the unexpected mode change and the captain’s delayed awareness of and ineffective response to the situation;
- Atlas’ evaluation of the FO. The FO failed to disclose to Atlas some of the training difficulties he experienced at former employers, and Atlas’ records review did not identify the FO’s past training failure at one former employer, which may have affected how Atlas evaluated him during the hiring process and during training;
- Industry pilot hiring process deficiencies. Limitations in the background records retrieval process places hiring operators (like Atlas when considering the FO’s application) at a disadvantage when trying to obtain a complete training history on a pilot applicant. Also, the circumstances of this accident highlighted a need for improved pilot selection and performance measurement methods
That sounds very much like that FedEx crash that killed three.
I read it. I was not disagreeing, simply noting the unique, unfortunate set of circumstances. The entire event was 30 seconds, but yes, the CPT was likely not providing adequate supervision. The jumpseater appeared more aware.
