I'm about to pull the trigger on a new custom build....

JAS-SH · Sunday at 7:55 PM

Just turned 70 last year. At my age time is the most expensive part any equation. I'm lucky that I have the funds saved for what I will call my last custom rifle order. So this is what I'm looking for:

I'm thinking about one rifle with two interchangeable barrels. One barrel is going to be a 6GT with a 26-inch competition barrel. The other barrel will be a 20-inch carbon wrapped 6.5 Creedmoor with a can for the occasional antler critter. Both calibers use standard a bolt diameter.

Reasoning is first, I've run out of space in my safe. Second, a barrel vise is cheaper than two rifles.

My question is should I buy prefit barrels of have a gunsmith do them? The action is already on its way and should have it next week, and it takes prefits (Defiance Ruckus).

buckleboy · Sunday at 8:02 PM

Can’t go wrong with either, although prefits are generally less expensive.
Probably not the advice you were hoping for. Fwiw, I have both and like both. Most of my smith barrels are because I want something fancy like ramped lands or something.

stevieb92 · Sunday at 8:54 PM

JAS-SH said:
Just turned 70 last year. At my age time is the most expensive part any equation. I'm lucky that I have the funds saved for what I will call my last custom rifle order. So this is what I'm looking for:

I'm thinking about one rifle with two interchangeable barrels. One barrel is going to be a 6GT with a 26-inch competition barrel. The other barrel will be a 20-inch carbon wrapped 6.5 Creedmoor with a can for the occasional antler critter. Both calibers use standard a bolt diameter.

Reasoning is first, I've run out of space in my safe. Second, a barrel vise is cheaper than two rifles.

My question is should I buy prefit barrels of have a gunsmith do them? The action is already on its way and should have it next week, and it takes prefits (Defiance Ruckus).

I'd vote for prefits.

Hi Velocity · Sunday at 10:09 PM

I would go prefits with the barrel nut. I would get the nuts that use standard wrenches (open end or box). You can get a crowfoot wrench for torque.

I have a shouldered prefit and barrels with the nuts. I prefer the barrel nut barrels. They are easier to install/remove and are cheaper.

SendCenter · Monday at 2:19 AM

Hi Velocity said:
I would go prefits with the barrel nut. I would get the nuts that use standard wrenches (open end or box). You can get a crowfoot wrench for torque.

I have a shouldered prefit and barrels with the nuts. I prefer the barrel nut barrels. They are easier to install/remove and are cheaper.

That is an unpopular opinion except for being cheaper. A barrel with a nut requires head spacing every time you put it on and the nut is ugly compared to a shouldered barrel. Neither are difficult but why would you want to dick with head space and go/no-go gauges? A shouldered barrel from a smith doesn't even require gauges, just torque it on and shoot. (You can still verify a shouldered barrels head space with a new piece of brass and some tape..)
OP- Either will work fine, I vote a shouldered prefit from a reputable smith. Most of the big name smiths will not need your action to cut you a barrel, just order and and have it at your door.

Hi Velocity · Monday at 2:49 AM

SendCenter said:
That is an unpopular opinion except for being cheaper. A barrel with a nut requires head spacing every time you put it on and the nut is ugly compared to a shouldered barrel. Neither are difficult but why would you want to dick with head space and go/no-go gauges? A shouldered barrel from a smith doesn't even require gauges, just torque it on and shoot. (You can still verify a shouldered barrels head space with a new piece of brass and some tape..)

What evidence do you have to claim it's an unpopular opinion? I think they are becoming more popular. Many custom actions are threaded to accept Savage type barrels. That means barrel nut barrels. There is a reason for that.

The look of the nut does not bother me, because I know the value of it being there. Checking the head space takes about two minutes. Not really a bother for me. It was recommended to me to check head space on my shouldered prefit.

The torque of some shouldered prefits is 90 ft/lbs. Then you have to take it off when you want to switch. I believe that is what the OP plans to do. 40 - 60 ft/lbs for the nut. I usually go 45. A lot easier. I'm glad we have choices. To each their own.

Landon4 · Monday at 4:03 AM

A shouldered prefit will headspace better than a barrel nut system. The barrel nut will have to be adjusted each time whereas the prefit is just torque and go, the headspace won’t change at each barrel swap.

SendCenter · Monday at 4:42 AM

Hi Velocity said:
What evidence do you have to claim it's an unpopular opinion? I think they are becoming more popular. Many custom actions are threaded to accept Savage type barrels. That means barrel nut barrels. There is a reason for that.

The look of the nut does not bother me, because I know the value of it being there. Checking the head space takes about two minutes. Not really a bother for me. It was recommended to me to check head space on my shouldered prefit.

The torque of some shouldered prefits is 90 ft/lbs. Then you have to take it off when you want to switch. I believe that is what the OP plans to do. 40 - 60 ft/lbs for the nut. I usually go 45. A lot easier. I'm glad we have choices. To each their own.

Well first, OP's action does not take savage threads, it uses R700 threads. Therefore he would need to get a remage barrel. Since OP wants a competition barrel, he would be limited to barrel OD of 1.06" since a barrel nut doesn't work on anything bigger than 1.06" in diameter.
There literally is no reason to buy a custom action that is "head spaced guaranteed" and use a barrel nut. There is metric crap ton of threads on why shouldered barrels are preferred of a barrel nut, use the search function. They are not getting more popular by any means.

Op's question is asking for a pre-fit barrel (large batch like proof) or getting a barrel from a smith (custom one time job). Both of these are shouldered barrels.. Both options are going to shoot phenomenal. The difference between the two options is a smith will probably spin the barrel to "tighter" tolerances and probably wont use a reamer that's at the end of it life. A smith will also time and engrave the barrel if he has the action in hand. Most people can't shoot the difference, but once in a while you can get a mass produced prefit that doesn't shoot as good as it should. My piece of mind lies with a reputable smith. OP- this is your "last custom rifle" I would go with the smith.

Thump_rrr · Monday at 5:51 AM

Hi Velocity said:
What evidence do you have to claim it's an unpopular opinion? I think they are becoming more popular. Many custom actions are threaded to accept Savage type barrels. That means barrel nut barrels. There is a reason for that.

The look of the nut does not bother me, because I know the value of it being there. Checking the head space takes about two minutes. Not really a bother for me. It was recommended to me to check head space on my shouldered prefit.

The torque of some shouldered prefits is 90 ft/lbs. Then you have to take it off when you want to switch. I believe that is what the OP plans to do. 40 - 60 ft/lbs for the nut. I usually go 45. A lot easier. I'm glad we have choices. To each their own.

Unless you want to Loctite the barrel nut once you establish headspace there is no advantage to using a nut. Most of mine are with a nut simply to avoid the need for a gunsmith.

If you have a gunsmith who you trust and can get barrels in a reasonable timeframe there is no downside to a shoulders pre fit.

diggler1833 · Monday at 7:52 AM

JAS-SH said:
Just turned 70 last year. At my age time is the most expensive part any equation. I'm lucky that I have the funds saved for what I will call my last custom rifle order. So this is what I'm looking for:

I'm thinking about one rifle with two interchangeable barrels. One barrel is going to be a 6GT with a 26-inch competition barrel. The other barrel will be a 20-inch carbon wrapped 6.5 Creedmoor with a can for the occasional antler critter. Both calibers use standard a bolt diameter.

Reasoning is first, I've run out of space in my safe. Second, a barrel vise is cheaper than two rifles.

My question is should I buy prefit barrels of have a gunsmith do them? The action is already on its way and should have it next week, and it takes prefits (Defiance Ruckus).

I'm of the opinion that you should avoid the barrel nut style mentioned above. Your last rifle shouldn't have compromises in aesthetics, and putting a nut on a Defiance is like adding a Auto-Zone plastic hood scoop on a Ferrari. Functionally, the nut served a purpose on mass production items with shitty tolerances. But you aren't going that route with that equipment.

If you don't readily see prefits offered, then a good gunsmith can chamber several barrels for you at the same time...that's the route I went with on my old Surgeon 1086. Financially it won't cost much more either.

spife7980 · Monday at 7:59 AM

Nothing wrong with barrel nuts but to claim they they are getting more popular than shouldered is just an oblivious notion. It’s been the inverse trend for a decade.

The smith cut should end up at the same spec as the prefit if both are cut correctly so it shouldn’t matter. I vote prefit unless the smith is local and convenient.

stanley_white · Monday at 7:59 AM

JAS-SH said:
Just turned 70 last year. At my age time is the most expensive part any equation. I'm lucky that I have the funds saved for what I will call my last custom rifle order. So this is what I'm looking for:

I'm thinking about one rifle with two interchangeable barrels. One barrel is going to be a 6GT with a 26-inch competition barrel. The other barrel will be a 20-inch carbon wrapped 6.5 Creedmoor with a can for the occasional antler critter. Both calibers use standard a bolt diameter.

Reasoning is first, I've run out of space in my safe. Second, a barrel vise is cheaper than two rifles.

My question is should I buy prefit barrels of have a gunsmith do them? The action is already on its way and should have it next week, and it takes prefits (Defiance Ruckus).

I bought an AI due to its quick change barrel system not requiring a vice (or strength) and it’s AW magazines being top down loaders — both of these features are desirable to me as I envision aging and the unpredictable losses of physicality that will ensue.

-Stan

Herb Stoner · Monday at 8:03 AM

Go with a Zeus QC action. Rock solid and no need for a vise.

stevieb92 · Monday at 8:19 AM

SendCenter said:
Well first, OP's action does not take savage threads, it uses R700 threads. Therefore he would need to get a remage barrel. Since OP wants a competition barrel, he would be limited to barrel OD of 1.06" since a barrel nut doesn't work on anything bigger than 1.06" in diameter.
There literally is no reason to buy a custom action that is "head spaced guaranteed" and use a barrel nut. There is metric crap ton of threads on why shouldered barrels are preferred of a barrel nut, use the search function. They are not getting more popular by any means.

Op's question is asking for a pre-fit barrel (large batch like proof) or getting a barrel from a smith (custom one time job). Both of these are shouldered barrels.. Both options are going to shoot phenomenal. The difference between the two options is a smith will probably spin the barrel to "tighter" tolerances and probably wont use a reamer that's at the end of it life. A smith will also time and engrave the barrel if he has the action in hand. Most people can't shoot the difference, but once in a while you can get a mass produced prefit that doesn't shoot as good as it should. My piece of mind lies with a reputable smith. OP- this is your "last custom rifle" I would go with the smith.

You're completely wrong. All my barrel nut prefit barrels have 1.25 shank thickness, not 1.06. Southern Precision Rifles BugNut. Do your research first. Further, Greg at SPR uses the same tooling and tolerancing for his shouldered barrels. He doesn't do these as a batch, it's still one at a time and custom. If the OP is going to compete with this rifle, the barrel will be changed out frequently as it gets shot out, so who cares if the engraving is timed? It's not a safe queen. SPR has also made prefits for my R700 rifles, so prefits aren't limited to savage thread pattern.

This shouldered vs barrel nut topic has been argued here to death. Some people prefer shouldered and some people prefer barrel nut prefits. I prefer the nut. The big reason is it allows me to fine tune the headspace, where the shouldered barrel does not. You're stuck with whatever it is when you get it, considering tolerance stacking it could be out of headspace tolerance. Slim chance of this happening with most manufacturers today, but I prefer to eliminate it all together so I don't have to ship the barrel back to the manufacturer. Do a search here and you will see it still occurs.

All of the options should be presented to the OP and let him decide which style he prefers.

Here is a pic of one of my PRS rifles with a barrel nut and 1.25 Heavy Palma Bartlein profile barrels.

srt-4_uk · Monday at 8:35 AM

stevieb92 said:
You're completely wrong. All my barrel nut prefit barrels have 1.25 shank thickness, not 1.06.

Do yourself a favor and take some calipers to that barrel.

SendCenter · Monday at 8:49 AM

stevieb92 said:
You're completely wrong. All my barrel nut prefit barrels have 1.25 shank thickness, not 1.06. Southern Precision Rifles BugNut. Do your research first. Further, Greg at SPR uses the same tooling and tolerancing for his shouldered barrels. He doesn't do these as a batch, it's still one at a time and custom. If the OP is going to compete with this rifle, the barrel will be changed out frequently as it gets shot out, so who cares if the engraving is timed? It's not a safe queen. SPR has also made prefits for my R700 rifles, so prefits aren't limited to savage thread pattern.

This shouldered vs barrel nut topic has been argued here to death. Some people prefer shouldered and some people prefer barrel nut prefits. I prefer the nut. The big reason is it allows me to fine tune the headspace, where the shouldered barrel does not. You're stuck with whatever it is when you get it, considering tolerance stacking it could be out of headspace tolerance. Slim chance of this happening with most manufacturers today, but I prefer to eliminate it all together so I don't have to ship the barrel back to the manufacturer. Do a search here and you will see it still occurs.

All of the options should be presented to the OP and let him decide which style he prefers.

Here is a pic of one of my PRS rifles with a barrel nut and 1.25 Heavy Palma Bartlein profile barrels.

View attachment 8619723

looks Like I wrong with the BugNut. He will be able to run up to a 1.20 breech for the Remington threads according to SPR.

Rob01 · Monday at 8:54 AM

First don’t get a barrel nut barrel. It’s not easier or faster at all. Get a shouldered prefit for your custom action. Simple screw on and no dicking with headspace or adding another piece to the equation. How many people with custom gunsmith barrels installs say “man I wish I could adjust my headspace”. Answer, none. Same with a shouldered prefit. You have a custom action. Not a savage.

Give @bohem Josh a call at PVA and he can get you set up with both.

stevieb92 · Monday at 8:54 AM

srt-4_uk said:
Do yourself a favor and take some calipers to that barrel.

1.252. Fuckstick.

stevieb92 · Monday at 8:56 AM

Rob01 said:
First don’t get a barrel nut barrel. It’s not easier or faster at all. Get a shouldered prefit for your custom action. Simple screw on and no dicking with headspace or adding another piece to the equation. How many people with custom gunsmith barrels installs say “man I wish I could adjust my headspace”. Answer, none. Same with a shouldered prefit. You have a custom action. Not a savage.

Give @bohem Josh a call at PVA and he can get you set up with both.

I knew you'd be in here before long. Let the OP decide. Arrogant of you to say to someone "Don't get a..."

Rob01 · Monday at 9:00 AM

stevieb92 said:
I knew you'd be in here before long. Let the OP decide. Arrogant of you to say to someone "Don't get a..."

Arrogant? lol Hardly. Just giving him some good info and a direction to go having been down the road. He is the final decision but I won’t ever tell him to get a nut system over a shouldered prefit. Old tech versus new and easier.

stevieb92 · Monday at 9:08 AM

Rob01 said:
Arrogant? lol Hardly. Just giving him some good info and a direction to go having been down the road. He is the final decision but I won’t ever tell him to get a nut system over a shouldered prefit. Old tech versus new and easier.

Laughable to say that you’re “just telling” him good info. You’re literally telling him to not do something. You don’t know him and neither do I. Why is it hard for some people to just give info and let them be? New tech isn’t always better. You’re one of the worst in here for telling an OP do this or don’t do that.

diggler1833 · Monday at 9:16 AM

Well, that settles it. Let's get the OP to get a barrel nut and start load development with soft points...

Rob01 · Monday at 9:22 AM

stevieb92 said:
Laughable to say that you’re “just telling” him good info. You’re literally telling him to not do something. You don’t know him and neither do I. Why is it hard for some people to just give info and let them be? New tech isn’t always better. You’re one of the worst in here for telling an OP do this or don’t do that.

Ok here you go.

OP you have the option of getting a barrel nut and using 90s Savage tech with headspace gauges to possibly fix a non existent problem and have to worry about setting headspace or getting an actual custom set up shouldered prefit made for your action that you can just screw on and off as easy as screwing a nut into a bolt. Your choice. Not going to tell you which to get.

Better? lol Sorry but actually not sorry I am trying to steer him towards the easier and better set up. He is 70 and I am sure wanting the easiest way to swap barrels and trying to help him get that.

308pirate · Monday at 9:25 AM

Landon4 said:
A shouldered prefit will headspace better than a barrel nut system.

Define "better"

spife7980 · Monday at 9:25 AM

srt-4_uk said:
Do yourself a favor and take some calipers to that barrel.

It’s a bug nut, not a normal barrel nut. So about as niche as it gets and doesn’t apply to the overwhelming majority of other barrel nuts

srt-4_uk · Monday at 9:32 AM

stevieb92 said:
1.252. Fuckstick.

Bro could have posted a link but said, " let me brake out the calipers to measure best how incorrect you are."
Respect.

JAS-SH · Monday at 9:38 AM

Thanks, but no thanks on barrel nut. The Defiance Ruckus action is already on the truck on the way to my FFL.

I prefer shouldered barrel installs and will use my own vise to switch barrels, which will only happen twice a year. This because the 26-inch 6GT barrel will be the main barrel, the 6.5 creed carbon shortie will be the hunting season barrel, with a can.

The 6 GT is not super popular yet so I will probably have to provide the smith with the reamer, go/no go, probably a Defiance action wrench and $$.

Going with prefits makes sense to me because I can do the whole thing myself. I'm old but can still torque 90 pounds

. I'm just concerned with prefit accuracy, especially if I go with Proof. I have a 26-inch stainless Proof on my 6-arc that shoots lights out but lately there are rumors on the net that quality might not be the same as 4 years ago....

Rob01 · Monday at 9:43 AM

The 6GT is very popular. Most all the good smiths will have a reamer and should be able to make you a barrel without a problem. No need to send them anything.

JAS-SH · Monday at 10:15 AM

Rob01 said:
The 6GT is very popular. Most all the good smiths will have a reamer and should be able to make you a barrel without a problem. No need to send them anything.

My local smith doesn't have the reamer, and I should probably buy one anyway. When time comes for a new barrel I can tell him to use my reamer, which will only have one barrel wear on it.

I'm going to write a note to Alex Wheeler today. He's about a 1.5 hour drive away up in High Springs, and he usually stocks Bartlein barrels. Problem might be he is really popular and the wait time might be more than want.

His website: https://www.wheeleraccuracy.com/

Rob01 · Monday at 10:51 AM

JAS-SH said:
My local smith doesn't have the reamer, and I should probably buy one anyway. When time comes for a new barrel I can tell him to use my reamer, which will only have one barrel wear on it.

I'm going to write a note to Alex Wheeler today. He's about a 1.5 hour drive away up in High Springs, and he usually stocks Bartlein barrels. Problem might be he is really popular and the wait time might be more than want.

His website: https://www.wheeleraccuracy.com/

Well if you are going to use your local smith then yeah you have to buy one but thought you were just asking about prefits in general. Everyone I have looked at has a 6GT chambering.

JAS-SH · Monday at 11:04 AM

Rob01 said:
Well if you are going to use your local smith then yeah you have to buy one but thought you were just asking about prefits in general. Everyone I have looked at has a 6GT chambering.

That is Plan B, if the prefit route is not the way to go. That's the decision I have to make and prefits make me nervous.

Just wrote an email to Alex Wheeler. We'll see what happens with him. He is one of the best smiths in the country.

diggler1833 · Monday at 11:07 AM

JAS-SH said:
That is Plan B, if the prefit route is not the way to go. That's the decision I have to make and prefits make me nervous.

Prefits from a reputable guy are going to be just as well as getting a barrel spun up and installed at the shop. I've got both from the same gunsmith local to me, and all of them hammer equally with zero headspace issues on the prefits.

Rob01 · Monday at 11:11 AM

What he said. Get a prefit from a good smith and you will be fine.

Landon4 · Monday at 3:38 PM

308pirate said:
Define "better"

I guess you can say easier because in theory you shouldn’t have to mess with checking headspace if whoever machined it did it correctly. Just torque it and go, vs fiddling with the getting the barrel threaded in and checking and having to keep checking until the headspace is correct and tightening down the nut.

bohem · Monday at 6:56 PM

@JAS-SH

I own/run Patriot Valley Arms.

We started the Shouldered Custom Prefit market and took a lot of heat for it initially. Now it's the way of the industry... In fact, if a new receiver comes out and doesn't have the consistency to take shouldered prefits they're going to have a hard road ahead of them.

I doubt the back and forth on Nut vs. No Nut (Shouldered Style) will ever really settle. There is no difference in accuracy from a "hand fit" vs. shouldered prefit vs. barrel nut WHEN you use the same quality barrel. Comparing two different levels of blank in that equation is apples and watermelons.

There are several gunsmiths mentioned in here that do excellent work. These days it's more important to be discerning with who is doing the work than it is to argue the brand and rifling type on the barrel blank being used.

I am happy to make you the barrels you're looking to put on the Rukus, we have the steel and carbon blank available and our lead time is pretty short. In fact, if you want to see that 6GT before March 1st it can be done with our rush options.

Here's a LINK for 6GT

Here's a LINK for the 6.5 Creedmoor.

Another option for you is this: If you want that custom fit send us your action and we will measure/document it. The action comes back with a laser engraved tag that has all the critical dimensions on it and we don't need to see it again. When you're ready for another barrel just place the order and send us an email with a picture of the tag in the email body.

There is no additional service charge for this, the only additional cost is for the extra shipping/insurance involved with sending the action.

Welcome to Sniper's Hide!

JAS-SH · Wednesday at 2:57 PM

Deal is done. Ordered the first of two barrels from Josh at PVA

. Action will be here tomorrow.

bohem · Wednesday at 3:18 PM

JAS-SH said:
Deal is done. Ordered the first of two barrels from Josh at PVA . Action will be here tomorrow.

Thank you for the business! I had a good time talking with you today

JAS-SH · Wednesday at 4:01 PM

bohem said:
Thank you for the business! I had a good time talking with you today

No, Thank You!!!! Great talking to you too, we seem to have a lot in common (flying, etc.) .....

We'll talk again soon for the second barrel.

All the best,

Jose

I'm about to pull the trigger on a new custom build....

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