What gives the President power to create new government organizations?

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Minuteman
  • Nov 8, 2004
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    As the title says, "What gives the President power to create new government organizations?"

    Not knowing a did a Google search and this is what it showed:

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    While the President does have some authority to reorganize the executive branch, the primary power to create new government organizations lies with Congress, meaning they must pass legislation to establish new agencies; the President cannot unilaterally create a new government organization without Congressional approval, which is typically done through acts of Congress, not solely through executive power vested in the President by Article II of the Constitution.

    Key points to remember:
    • Limited Reorganization Power:
      The President does have some limited authority to reorganize existing executive branch agencies through "reorganization plans," but these plans usually require Congressional approval or oversight.

    • Executive Vesting Clause:
      Article II of the Constitution grants the President broad executive power, but this power is generally interpreted as the ability to manage and direct existing agencies, not to create new ones without Congressional involvement.

    • Congressional Authority:
      The power to create new government agencies and departments primarily rests with Congress, as they enact laws establishing these entities. "

      If this is true how does he get away with creating the "Department of Government Efficiency"?
    I also found this. I haven't heard or read anything about Congress granting him the approval to do so.
     
    As the title says, "What gives the President power to create new government organizations?"

    Not knowing a did a Google search and this is what it showed:

    "
    AI Overview
    Learn more

    While the President does have some authority to reorganize the executive branch, the primary power to create new government organizations lies with Congress, meaning they must pass legislation to establish new agencies; the President cannot unilaterally create a new government organization without Congressional approval, which is typically done through acts of Congress, not solely through executive power vested in the President by Article II of the Constitution.

    Key points to remember:
    • Limited Reorganization Power:
      The President does have some limited authority to reorganize existing executive branch agencies through "reorganization plans," but these plans usually require Congressional approval or oversight.

    • Executive Vesting Clause:
      Article II of the Constitution grants the President broad executive power, but this power is generally interpreted as the ability to manage and direct existing agencies, not to create new ones without Congressional involvement.

    • Congressional Authority:
      The power to create new government agencies and departments primarily rests with Congress, as they enact laws establishing these entities. "

      If this is true how does he get away with creating the "Department of Government Efficiency"?
    I also found this. I haven't heard or read anything about Congress granting him the approval to do so.

    Obama created doge under a different name and obtained funding from congress. Trump renamed it.

     
    Obama created doge under a different name and obtained funding from congress. Trump renamed it.


    So if this is simply a renaming, how is DOGE carrying out the functions of the "United States Digital Service" as created by President Obama? If they aren't carrying out the same tasks as originally created, it seems this is an entirely new organization that should have been approved by Congress.
     
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    So if this is simply a renaming, how is DOGE carrying out the functions of the "United States Digital Service" as created by President Obama? If they aren't carrying out the same tasks as originally created, it seems this is an entirely new organization that should have been approved by Congress.

    Why do you care? Are you mad that they're finding out where your tax dollars are actually going?
     
    So if this is simply a renaming, how is DOGE carrying out the functions of the "United States Digital Service" as created by President Obama? If they aren't carrying out the same tasks as originally created, it seems this is an entirely new organization that should have been approved by Congress.

    No. The president has the executive authority to assign them whatever tasks he feels proper.
     
    So you feel he has the right to do whatever he wants simply because he holds the title of "President" regardless if it violates the Constitution or existing laws?

    Thank you for providing an example of why under normal circumstances the Democrats and left wing get everything done they want to as soon as they get power, while Republicans, conservatives and right wing types get very little done when in power except roadblock anything positive from happening over their own petty fights.

    Trump saw this in his first term.

    Fortunately he's learned his lesson and carefully read the court rulings that the Democrats thought would always help them stay in power and control.
    Now he's going full bore to as much as various court rulings and presidents will allow, and probably then some so you and other folks along with democrats can have fun being happy he got pushed back on some things.
     
    How does this apply to my original question?

    The answer is, of course we do. The broader question wasn't asked and it makes you look like you're covering for 12+ years of unconstitutional horseshit.

    They weren't making constitutional laws or decisions.

    Why weren't you questioning their acts?

    Yet, you question the current admin?

    Makes YOU look bad.
     
    I care because I want the Government to operate within the Constitution and established laws. Don't you want the same thing?

    Nope what I want is for Trump to squash the leftists and neocons into paste

    I wanna see pieces of shit like Bill Kristol and McConnell and Pelosi in prison

    Right now I'll settle for Musk telling me that my tax dollars are no longer paying for sex changes in Botswana
     
    So you feel he has the right to do whatever he wants simply because he holds the title of "President" regardless if it violates the Constitution or existing laws?
    I dont" feel" ,but whatever........

    So, provide examples of Constitutional violations ,that you " feel " this President has committed .

    Oh by they way," bless your little ole heart "
     
    So you feel he has the right to do whatever he wants simply because he holds the title of "President" regardless if it violates the Constitution or existing laws?
    YES!!
    Nope what I want is for Trump to squash the leftists and neocons into paste

    I wanna see pieces of shit like Bill Kristol and McConnell and Pelosi in prison

    Right now I'll settle for Musk telling me that my tax dollars are no longer paying for sex changes in Botswana
    THIS RIGHT HERE^^^^^^^^^^
     
    I dont" feel" ,but whatever........

    So, provide examples of Constitutional violations ,that you " feel " this President has committed .

    Oh by they way," bless your little ole heart "
    Re-read my original post. What I found was the President does not have the power to create "new" departments without Congressional approval. It seems no one has been able to show me where he has the right to do so. Since Congresses approval is required then this would be a violation of the Constitution or existing laws.
     
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    1740159530807.jpeg
     
    Re-read my original post. What I found was the President does not have the power to create "new" departments without Congressional approval. It seems no one has been able to show me where he has the right to do so. Since Congresses approval is required then this would be a violation of the Constitution or existing laws.
    That has been explained........
     
    That has been explained........

    Explained how? I have read responses based on feelings but I have not read ANY responses as to the AUTHORITY for him to do what he has done. Please point me to written legal documentation that allows him to do this. Until I see any documented proof granting him this power I will question it.
     
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    I asked you to re-read my original post because your response was based more on personal feelings than on actual authority through the Constitution or existing laws. I respect your opinion but am still looking for the authority under the Constitution or existing laws that allows him to do this.
     
    I asked you to re-read my original post because your response was based more on personal feelings than on actual authority through the Constitution or existing laws. I respect your opinion but am still looking for the authority under the Constitution or existing laws that allows him to do this.
    Your question was answered. Argue on that new point if you still disagree.
     
    I asked you to re-read my original post because your response was based more on personal feelings than on actual authority through the Constitution or existing laws. I respect your opinion but am still looking for the authority under the Constitution or existing laws that allows him to do this.

    I 100% agree. I wrote a strongly worded letter to my representatives and suggest you do the same. What gives drumpf the authority to rename and existing govt department/functional organization to some meme-lord "DOGE" bullshit? It is like a big middle finger to democracy and shows he is just a big fat putin puppet!!!! I mean obama said something like (not exact quote) "kicking and screaming clutching their bibles"...but what gives drumpf the authority to drag the left "crying while clutching our dildos"???

    Even if drumpf and his team legally out maneuvered his opposition in renaming the existing department which basically had the same charter, because obama wisely knew "congress was not acting quickly enough", which has only resulted in the current consitutional crisis!!! Lastly, us citizens are way too stupid to understand why/how all the money is spent like it is, and to be quite honest, we have no lawful right to know where the money is going in the first place!!!!
     
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    So you feel he has the right to do whatever he wants simply because he holds the title of "President" regardless if it violates the Constitution or existing laws?
    You can’t be this dense… what leftist troll farm do you work for, and when did you take over this account?
     

    Link: Public Officials as Fiduciaries

    The relationship between public officials and the public has been described by scholars as fiduciary in nature. (See e.g. Rave, 2013; Leib, Ponet & Serota, 2013; Ponet & Lieb, 2011; Natelson, 2004) So what is a fiduciary? Dictionary.com defines the term fiduciary as relating to, “a person to whom property or power is entrusted for the benefit of another.” There at least four factors that identify a relationship as a fiduciary one:
    1. The beneficiary has delegated authority to the fiduciary to act on its behalf;
    2. The fiduciary has discretionary powers over the beneficiary’s assets or interests;
    3. The fiduciary is in a position superior to that of the beneficiary due to specialized access, knowledge or ability; and
    4. The beneficiary trusts that the fiduciary will act in the beneficiary’s best interest. (Ponet & Leib, 2011.)
    The fiduciary responsibility is implicit in the US Constitution in that the Presidency is an Office of Trust. If the President sees that his subordinates are not meeting their fiduciary responsibilities, then he is required (not just permitted) to ensure that they do. The FAFO/DOGE is a simple mechanism to to get that work done.
     
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    You are right, he was elected as the "President" who is supposed to act within the Constitution and existing laws of the country. He was NOT elected to be a DICTATOR!
    The left cheated, lied, stole, slandered, misappriated, even shot at a candidate, and still lost by a huge margin.

    Trump is doing the things people voted him in to do, using the same tools that have been used against the right for years.

    Unconstitutional? Maybe, but you have a long list of that going on for decades before him that you need to clear up first.
     
    . . . Unconstitutional? Maybe, but you have a long list of that going on for decades before him that you need to clear up first.

    I'm not asking about what has been done before because that is now history. I'm asking my question now because I would like to see this Country run following the Constitution and existing laws. If his actions are unconstitutional then I believe he needs to be called on that. I still have not seen any documentation showing he has the legitimate right to do so.
     
    Honestly, I don’t like that each administration is able to point at the previous administration and say “At least we’re not breaking as many laws as that guy”. We can argue about where it started, but it certainly wasn’t Trump. I’m going to say it goes back to the 1960’s, at least. And it’s all levels of government.

    I don’t know how it can be fixed now? Throw them ALL in jail and start over? Human nature will take over again, and eventually we’ll be back where we started.

    Maybe, if Trump can smash the system enough, and enough people (congress and bureaucrats) go to jail, maybe it will be better for a while. At least the balance of my lifetime.

    Meanwhile, I’m glad Trump is doing everything he is doing. The left does it quietly and the right ignores it, for the most part. Trump is under a microscope, and he’s doing this in the open, so the left is able to make a spectacle of it. Oh well, good for them. As long as Trump keeps moving on.
     
    So you feel he has the right to do whatever he wants simply because he holds the title of "President" regardless if it violates the Constitution or existing laws?

    What laws did he violate by creating doge? What part of the constitution did he violate? Why haven’t the courts stopped him? They had a chance. The same democrat judges that persecuted him and his associates. But they haven’t. Seems odd.
     
    I'm not asking about what has been done before because that is now history. I'm asking my question now because I would like to see this Country run following the Constitution and existing laws. If his actions are unconstitutional then I believe he needs to be called on that. I still have not seen any documentation showing he has the legitimate right to do so.

    Do you not grasp the situation?

    Take the issue of illegals flowing over the border. Trump is trying to take care of that even though others have failed, including Republicans. I'm pretty sure what he is doing is following the constitution. No?


    DOGE? Not really seeing the issue there. Bringing in an outside group to audit the government is unconstitutional?

    Changing the name of the Gulf?

    Where is the issue?
     
    I asked you to re-read my original post because your response was based more on personal feelings than on actual authority through the Constitution or existing laws. I respect your opinion but am still looking for the authority under the Constitution or existing laws that allows him to do this.

    He did not create a new department.

    DOGE was a renaming of an existing department. President Trump has the authority vested in him by the Constitution to redirect the activities of individual departments.

    From the article linked above -

    "DOGE took over the U.S. Digital Service, a 300-person technology office President Barack Obama set up inside the Executive Office of the President in 2014 to fix his beleaguered HealthCare.gov. Bureaucrats had bungled the site, so USDS sought out Silicon Valley innovators, and was authorized to circumvent federal hiring procedures to get them. "

    President Trump and his staff are operating under the rules of the department created by a former president. It is also a fact that numerous presidents have created departments by executive order (Kennedy created USAID by EO), and even if President Trump did create a new department, it would have been a valid action.
     
    One of the primary functions and requirements of any executive is the responsibility and capability to audit his corporation, in this case the federal government. Without that singular function/capability he has no one to verify his direction is being followed or that the Laws of the country are being followed. I have not seen ANYTHING stating that the president may not create an entity to effect an audit. He is using HIS power of executive authority to back his auditors findings in the follow up directions to the agencies. Remember all the "Czars" we have seen used in recent decades? Have no issues with that do we? You have stated no specific charge, nor understanding of what exact laws paragraph and subtitle he has broken. He has uncovered vast amounts of corruption and constitutionally questionable expenditures and shut them down, but you take issue with the audit/auditors...... Check yourself. We need to watch this progress carefully as a nation, but right now I see freedom and ultimately the Constitution currently winning for the first time in quite a while.
     
    I'm not asking about what has been done before because that is now history. I'm asking my question now because I would like to see this Country run following the Constitution and existing laws. If his actions are unconstitutional then I believe he needs to be called on that. I still have not seen any documentation showing he has the legitimate right to do so.
    Using your own logic, just wait 4 years and you won’t have to worry about what Trump did, because by then, it will be history and it won’t matter to you. You’re welcome.
     
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    The op is asking for advice to support his claim that the POTUS is a Dictator.

    How could one reason with such a person?

    Ever heard about a law “ Presumption of innocence” ? Op, it’s on you the accuser to prove your claim in the court of law.

    And now suck a bag of dick’s commie….

    I'm not asking for any advise. I'm simply asking what gives him the right to create a "new" organization within our government when existing laws and the Constitution say it needs Congressional approval.

    No one to this point has been able to provide me the documentation granting him the authority to do so. Instead you have voiced your personal opinions and questioned my reasons for asking such a question instead of pointing me to the documentation that would answer my question.

    Apparently more people are interested in simply attacking my question and point of view then providing a link to the documentation showing he has the authority to do so.
     
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    The President can seek advice from whoever he chooses. I believe that is the role of Elon.

    I don’t recall any congressional approval for Hilary when Bill gave her the task of reorganizing our health care system.
    Exactly. I have no love for Musk who was a grifter on green energy credits before he became a media darling of the right. However, all presidents have advisors who are "unelected" Chief of Staff usually is one of the most powerful people in the world (especially domestically). That person never gets senate approval.

    The op is asking for advice to support his claim that the POTUS is a Dictator.

    How could one reason with such a person?

    Ever heard about a law “ Presumption of innocence” ? Op, it’s on you the accuser to prove your claim in the court of law.

    And now suck a bag of dick’s commie….
    Its not that Trump is uniquely a dictator. The imperial presidency has been on the rise for some time and each cycle it gets worse. I don't think Trump is "different" than any previous occupant in that regard, I think some of us are coming to the realization that the Government is beyond broken and it starts with the executive branch and federal bureaucracy, regardless of who occupies the seat. As I said in the other thread, Trump is a symptom, not the disease. Its not that there is "some alternative" --our leaders over the last 80-100 years have failed us. Its bigger than any one individual.
     
    Re-read my original post. What I found was the President does not have the power to create "new" departments without Congressional approval. It seems no one has been able to show me where he has the right to do so. Since Congresses approval is required then this would be a violation of the Constitution or existing laws.
    Read post #3 in this thread, and click on the link that was provided to you.

    DOGE is a re-named program that was signed into law by Obama, with majority Congressional approval.

    Trump is simply fulfilling the requirements and mandates outlined in that law, which specifically was aimed at government efficiency.

    Trump never created a new Federal Agency (like JFK did with USAID).