ARs in sub zero temperatures
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I asked the same question years ago and have been using slip2000 since
Whatever I was using at the time would slow my bolt down in cold. Not an issue anymore. My truck sports an AR year round in cold UP of Michigan winters.
Whatever I was using at the time would slow my bolt down in cold. Not an issue anymore. My truck sports an AR year round in cold UP of Michigan winters.
Mobil 1™ 0W-8
Keep your engine running like new with Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy, engineered for today's advanced and hybrid engines. Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy full-synthetic motor oil 0W-8 is low viscosity to help to improve fuel economy.
www.mobil.com
1 bottle will last forever.
I use G96 works great. Follow the instructions, spray everything down, wait a minute and wipe it off.
To much of any lube is bad in the cold.
To much of any lube is bad in the cold.
Interesting discussion here:
www.snipershide.com
-Stan
Best cold weather rifle platform?? What is it?
What’s the best cold weather platform? AK47 AK74 A couple that come to mind Had -12°f this morning. Decided to try charging my “truck gun” which is just a simple MP15 Sport II. The BCG ran like turtles racing through molasses. Lubed with Slip 2000 about a month ago and sitting since then...
www.snipershide.com
-Stan
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it was -40 earlier this week and mine seemed to run fine, but typically what I've seen most common is light primer strikes due to condensation freezing in the system. Not sure if lube matters for that at all. Wet, dry, thick or thin...ice happens.
- Nov 3, 2010
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I forget what we used in Alaska, but it either CLP or LAW. At one point I think we used dry stuff as well but that could have just been what I was using on personal stuff?
right here, nothing else comes close. Have used up to -14 but in reality, less is more in extreme cold tempsMobil 1™ 0W-8
Keep your engine running like new with Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy, engineered for today's advanced and hybrid engines. Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy full-synthetic motor oil 0W-8 is low viscosity to help to improve fuel economy.
1 bottle will last forever.
that said, nothing beats mobil 1
I use Mobil 1 0-30 for years without problem. I shot in an ice storm once and she never failed.
I have never tried it, because I don't generally shoot when it is this cold. I use their normal stuff for both my bolt actions and AR's.
www.cherrybalmz.com
They claim down to -65F
WINTER BALM | CherryBalmz
When we set out to engineer an arctic lubricant, our target was creating something that would have kept American guns running reliably in the coldest battle our armed forces have ever fought in: Chosin Reservoir, in Korea, at -37F.Frankly, it's easy to find an oil that will accomplish this - the...
www.cherrybalmz.com
They claim down to -65F
My post from the 2022 thread:
From all the rifles I have seen run through high volume in way colder than that, I personally prefer the 11.5” AR-15 built to TDP, preferably Canadian Diameco/Colt Canada specs. Lube appropriately.
From 2005-2016 working with the Finns, Estonians, Danes, Norwegians, etc., with many arctic courses run in high volume, we had plenty of instances where 7.62x39 AKs crapped the bed enough that immediate action did not correct the problems. I don’t recall any malfunctions with TDP-built ARs. I saw very occasional malfs with Bushmaster vismod-15s.
I didn’t see enough 5.45x39 in extreme cold, but one guy in Finland built a franken-74 that ran the whole time on a 2-day course. I’ve shot East Germany -74s in high volume in warm weather and didn’t have any malfs during the same range session where all of the PM-63s (Romanian AKMs) were deadlined. That was in 1998, many years before I started spending a lot of time in Scandinavia.
But again, of all the rifles I’ve seen, I knee-jerk to the 11.5” AR-15s with correct parts. That means correct upper and BCG, springs, good barrel/chamber cut right, tight seal on the gas block to journal (not a slip-fit), and more Mil-Std or equivalent strength furniture (pistol grip and stock). I’ve had pistol grips break in the cold doing CQM suppressed. Cracked right at the grip core, fragmented off the little tabs that retain the backstrap and storage plug. I’ve also seen after-market look-alike waffle M4 stocks chip at the toe in that weak area for the never used sling stud at 6 o’clock.
I have also seen AK phenolic resin type pistol grips crack, (have one in my possession). The AK or any wooden furniture will spilt along the grain lines as well when trying to extract stuck cases.
One rifle that I also really liked in the cold weather was the Hk33 with 40rd mags. Hk53 behaved like a bucking mule in contrast, even at extreme cold temps. I haven’t seen Hk33s run through a lot of high volume though, just some anecdotal sessions doing training with Finns.
In Korea, we had constant problems with the M60 in the cold. That was 1996-1997. M60 was a piece of crap unless you had constant direct armorer support and new guns.
From all the rifles I have seen run through high volume in way colder than that, I personally prefer the 11.5” AR-15 built to TDP, preferably Canadian Diameco/Colt Canada specs. Lube appropriately.
From 2005-2016 working with the Finns, Estonians, Danes, Norwegians, etc., with many arctic courses run in high volume, we had plenty of instances where 7.62x39 AKs crapped the bed enough that immediate action did not correct the problems. I don’t recall any malfunctions with TDP-built ARs. I saw very occasional malfs with Bushmaster vismod-15s.
I didn’t see enough 5.45x39 in extreme cold, but one guy in Finland built a franken-74 that ran the whole time on a 2-day course. I’ve shot East Germany -74s in high volume in warm weather and didn’t have any malfs during the same range session where all of the PM-63s (Romanian AKMs) were deadlined. That was in 1998, many years before I started spending a lot of time in Scandinavia.
But again, of all the rifles I’ve seen, I knee-jerk to the 11.5” AR-15s with correct parts. That means correct upper and BCG, springs, good barrel/chamber cut right, tight seal on the gas block to journal (not a slip-fit), and more Mil-Std or equivalent strength furniture (pistol grip and stock). I’ve had pistol grips break in the cold doing CQM suppressed. Cracked right at the grip core, fragmented off the little tabs that retain the backstrap and storage plug. I’ve also seen after-market look-alike waffle M4 stocks chip at the toe in that weak area for the never used sling stud at 6 o’clock.
I have also seen AK phenolic resin type pistol grips crack, (have one in my possession). The AK or any wooden furniture will spilt along the grain lines as well when trying to extract stuck cases.
One rifle that I also really liked in the cold weather was the Hk33 with 40rd mags. Hk53 behaved like a bucking mule in contrast, even at extreme cold temps. I haven’t seen Hk33s run through a lot of high volume though, just some anecdotal sessions doing training with Finns.
In Korea, we had constant problems with the M60 in the cold. That was 1996-1997. M60 was a piece of crap unless you had constant direct armorer support and new guns.
I tried powdered graphite. It works but not that great. I could wear out a set of gas rings (and probably the carrier) with just a couple magazines. Went back to CLP and no issues. The other thing I figured out was to leave the rifle in the cold rather than take it outside from a warm place.
There are also different types of cold weather. It was straight-up miserable in Korea, but I don’t mind -30˚C in Finland, since it wasn’t windy that much. Once you add wind, things start to really suck.
The Finns are big into temperature management, so not allowing rifles into warming/sleeping tents due to condensation locking-up firing pin channels. They maintain a weapons rack guard through the night.
One of the guys from Varusteleka talked about this topic recently, having spent a lot of time in Finnish border guards and Recon units within their Jaeger companies. His answer to the question was a good AR-15.
The Canadians and Norwegians experience worse extreme cold conditions. Northern US Midwest where the Arctic gales come through also have colder conditions than Finland. Norway gets bad as you go up in altitude, like anywhere else. Published avg temps are usually for city-slickers, so you don’t see field conditions much in national climate data sets.
In Finland you can typically see -10˚ to -30˚C. It seemed like every time we did winter high-volume multi-day courses near the Southwest Coast, it would be -27˚C/-16.6˚ F for some reason. Around Helsinki at nearby ranges, it might be a little warmer at -10˚ to -20˚C, failure insulated from winds due to high density of forests. I prefer it colder so you don’t have to deal with slush. The times of slush are the worst, in my experience. You will get wet, especially boots, feet, and legs. Wet + cold = megasuck.
Santahamina military island area was brutal cold. I think that was the first range I ever shot on in the dead of winter of 2005/2006. The Finns were all in these arctic suits with thick coveralls, really thick jackets, facemasks, hoods, large mittens, and thick shooting mats. I rolled up in my black fleece, Gore-tex jacket, thin balaclava, wool cap, nomex gloves, and hunter’s mittens I think.
Lapland is much colder too.
The Finns are big into temperature management, so not allowing rifles into warming/sleeping tents due to condensation locking-up firing pin channels. They maintain a weapons rack guard through the night.
One of the guys from Varusteleka talked about this topic recently, having spent a lot of time in Finnish border guards and Recon units within their Jaeger companies. His answer to the question was a good AR-15.
The Canadians and Norwegians experience worse extreme cold conditions. Northern US Midwest where the Arctic gales come through also have colder conditions than Finland. Norway gets bad as you go up in altitude, like anywhere else. Published avg temps are usually for city-slickers, so you don’t see field conditions much in national climate data sets.
In Finland you can typically see -10˚ to -30˚C. It seemed like every time we did winter high-volume multi-day courses near the Southwest Coast, it would be -27˚C/-16.6˚ F for some reason. Around Helsinki at nearby ranges, it might be a little warmer at -10˚ to -20˚C, failure insulated from winds due to high density of forests. I prefer it colder so you don’t have to deal with slush. The times of slush are the worst, in my experience. You will get wet, especially boots, feet, and legs. Wet + cold = megasuck.
Santahamina military island area was brutal cold. I think that was the first range I ever shot on in the dead of winter of 2005/2006. The Finns were all in these arctic suits with thick coveralls, really thick jackets, facemasks, hoods, large mittens, and thick shooting mats. I rolled up in my black fleece, Gore-tex jacket, thin balaclava, wool cap, nomex gloves, and hunter’s mittens I think.
Lapland is much colder too.
One of my Finnish buddies who was in Recon/Jaeger said they issued them WD40 for their Valmet Rk62s.
I remember using Slip2000 EWL in some of the high-volume courses in AR-15s. It was the only lube I could fly with, as it isn’t petroleum-based.
I’m still in the place where I like the 11.5” to 12.5” AR-15s for that environment. Lightweight, compact, runs like a raped ape if Mil-Std parts used and built right. Easy answer is BCM.
Finland officially is going with AR-15s for their new service weapons, made by SAKO.
Sweden too.
AR-10s for DMRs.
I remember using Slip2000 EWL in some of the high-volume courses in AR-15s. It was the only lube I could fly with, as it isn’t petroleum-based.
I’m still in the place where I like the 11.5” to 12.5” AR-15s for that environment. Lightweight, compact, runs like a raped ape if Mil-Std parts used and built right. Easy answer is BCM.
Finland officially is going with AR-15s for their new service weapons, made by SAKO.
Sweden too.
AR-10s for DMRs.
My Joe Rogen Lube Experience
This is mostly for entertainment as I don’t have any hard info to give.
I had two copies of ARs that I slavishly acetoned the internals clean in order to add just the minimal amount of lube to function in a cold MN winter. Edit: I shoot 100% suppressed.
A PWS piston and a PWS-made BRN-180 gen 2.
Both were pieces of hot garbage and didn’t run for other reasons, like poor manufacturing. Bought from Brownells so returns were thankfully easy. Other people have had good experiences with them. Not me.
Gave up on piston guns (I’m sure some brand’s samples are fine though) and went straight back to my recommendation to my brother when he was in the market. The Armalite M-15 Competition 18" w/factory AGB (a DI gun obv).
Purposely didn’t lube (or stripe lube) off of it and shot it this winter; 370 rds, with 483 total shot through the gun’s lifetime. Unfortunately only down to 15°F max though, so not that cold at all.
Damn thing was flawless. I know that’s not a lot of rounds, but my prev two AR’s would cycle 2-3 rounds and jam, I’d get updated parts from PWS, rinse, repeat, auuurrhg. I wasted over 200 rds just futzing with PWS.
So I had low expectations of AR’s in winter at that point.
Opened the Armalite up to look at the lube. Quite a bit of thick stuff inside the bolt, around the firing pin. I said, “Oh well” and carried on. Worked fine.
I wonder what Armalite is putting in there?
This is mostly for entertainment as I don’t have any hard info to give.
I had two copies of ARs that I slavishly acetoned the internals clean in order to add just the minimal amount of lube to function in a cold MN winter. Edit: I shoot 100% suppressed.
A PWS piston and a PWS-made BRN-180 gen 2.
Both were pieces of hot garbage and didn’t run for other reasons, like poor manufacturing. Bought from Brownells so returns were thankfully easy. Other people have had good experiences with them. Not me.
Gave up on piston guns (I’m sure some brand’s samples are fine though) and went straight back to my recommendation to my brother when he was in the market. The Armalite M-15 Competition 18" w/factory AGB (a DI gun obv).
Purposely didn’t lube (or stripe lube) off of it and shot it this winter; 370 rds, with 483 total shot through the gun’s lifetime. Unfortunately only down to 15°F max though, so not that cold at all.
Damn thing was flawless. I know that’s not a lot of rounds, but my prev two AR’s would cycle 2-3 rounds and jam, I’d get updated parts from PWS, rinse, repeat, auuurrhg. I wasted over 200 rds just futzing with PWS.
So I had low expectations of AR’s in winter at that point.
Opened the Armalite up to look at the lube. Quite a bit of thick stuff inside the bolt, around the firing pin. I said, “Oh well” and carried on. Worked fine.
I wonder what Armalite is putting in there?
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Truer words have never been spoken.
That’s a hilarious pic of a dude upside down in a snowbank. Is that a living person or a mannequin?
Some Joes propped up an enemy KIA on the front in 1942, according to the picture description.
Can’t tell if he’s Russian or German. He was stripped of his boots, socks/footwraps, and gloves.
Yeah, I was looking a little more carefully around the guy and the immediate snow touching him had obviously been there a while. And one heel is black. Yeesh.
I remember coming across a dead dog at -40°F air temp. Frozen stiff as 6”x6” lumber. Big dent in its side, evidently been hit by a car, poop all over. Had to grab and and prop it up against the wall in order get past. Weird. Like a scene out of 1982’s “The Thing.”
- Nov 3, 2010
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That’s a must. Once you have the weapon outside it’s best to leave it there until you are done with it if possible. Our weapons always stayed outside the artic 10 man tents if we set them up.
Same thing for people. We used to walk around the COF in some funky outfits before we put it all on to go outside. Usually some BDU pants that were cut into cargo shorts held up with suspenders, some type of flip flop, and maybe some lightweight polypro
I have had something as thin as Rem oil get sticky enough to cause light strikes calling coyotes in sub zero weather. If I am calling in cold weather, I am wiping everything down and leaving a microfilm at best. More likely I just grab a striker fired bolt action.
I have seen other rifles that I brought inside from the -20 degree cold get a shit ton of condensation on it. These were not AR platforms so I have to wonder what it would do to the gas tube & port.
Think stirring the rifle with a bit of the appropriate lube in the firing pin channel would mitigate that problem some?There are also different types of cold weather. It was straight-up miserable in Korea, but I don’t mind -30˚C in Finland, since it wasn’t windy that much. Once you add wind, things start to really suck.
The Finns are big into temperature management, so not allowing rifles into warming/sleeping tents due to condensation locking-up firing pin channels. They maintain a weapons rack guard through the night.
One of the guys from Varusteleka talked about this topic recently, having spent a lot of time in Finnish border guards and Recon units within their Jaeger companies. His answer to the question was a good AR-15.
The Canadians and Norwegians experience worse extreme cold conditions. Northern US Midwest where the Arctic gales come through also have colder conditions than Finland. Norway gets bad as you go up in altitude, like anywhere else. Published avg temps are usually for city-slickers, so you don’t see field conditions much in national climate data sets.
In Finland you can typically see -10˚ to -30˚C. It seemed like every time we did winter high-volume multi-day courses near the Southwest Coast, it would be -27˚C/-16.6˚ F for some reason. Around Helsinki at nearby ranges, it might be a little warmer at -10˚ to -20˚C, failure insulated from winds due to high density of forests. I prefer it colder so you don’t have to deal with slush. The times of slush are the worst, in my experience. You will get wet, especially boots, feet, and legs. Wet + cold = megasuck.
Santahamina military island area was brutal cold. I think that was the first range I ever shot on in the dead of winter of 2005/2006. The Finns were all in these arctic suits with thick coveralls, really thick jackets, facemasks, hoods, large mittens, and thick shooting mats. I rolled up in my black fleece, Gore-tex jacket, thin balaclava, wool cap, nomex gloves, and hunter’s mittens I think.
Lapland is much colder too.
If you have thick oil in the firing pin channel, surrounded by the bolt, as the sub-freezing temperatures get lower, the oil gets thicker and thicker towards freezing itself, especially since it is so thin in there. Less fluid mass = faster freeze rates.
I really like the tri-lobal firing pin Alexander Arms did for the AR-15, so I would be inclined to use that for Arctic guns.
Running high-volume multi-day sessions is really hard on guns, as you go from ambient -XX˚ to whatever heat-loaded temps you reach blasting, then they drop down in-between drills. So the thermal gradient tracks like a yo-yo in extreme cold.
TDP-built AR-15s run like champs in those conditions, from what I saw over an 11yr period in Finland.
Here’s the TFB-TV interview with Jari Laine, a Finnish Recon/Infantry/Border Guard soldier of Varusteleka. He covers this topic extremely well based on his many years of experience. I was expecting him to maybe come out in favor of the Rk62, but he said AR-15 is his preference.
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I use the winter balm from cherry balms. Live in the interior of Alaska. -52 is where shit gets weird and no fire. A few years back I was bored one winter and left a Colt commando outside all winter and fired 1 round every morning when I got home off the midnight shift. -51 or warmer it would fire colder than no go. It would take about one 1 minute inside my coat for it to fire. Coldest that year was -62 or -63. The above was the winter balm.
Other lubes were a variety of success/failuers. Most synthetic lube was good to -25 to -30. And light coat/wipe off synthetic grease was -15 to -25 pending what it was.
Other lubes were a variety of success/failuers. Most synthetic lube was good to -25 to -30. And light coat/wipe off synthetic grease was -15 to -25 pending what it was.
I stripped it down between each test. Start to finish was 3.5 to 4.5 months.
I also predatory hunt off snow machine. Never had an issue going from slung over the back to shooting. May be just enough heat to keep it from getting weird.
After each shot I would lock to the rear close dust cover reinsert mag. At -52 and colder it won’t go into battery. Four to six pumps of the forward assist. And click.
I would lock to the rear, recover the round, reload the mag warm inside coat for a minute and was back in the game. I did cover up the can with a red shop rag.
Hope this helps.
I also predatory hunt off snow machine. Never had an issue going from slung over the back to shooting. May be just enough heat to keep it from getting weird.
After each shot I would lock to the rear close dust cover reinsert mag. At -52 and colder it won’t go into battery. Four to six pumps of the forward assist. And click.
I would lock to the rear, recover the round, reload the mag warm inside coat for a minute and was back in the game. I did cover up the can with a red shop rag.
Hope this helps.
So, this is the single best vid I’ve seen that demonstrates rope’s point as to how really cold weather screws with oil (this at -40°F air temp):
Mobile One ya fool. Beat Amsoil, Royal Purple, and some shit from Walmart that couldn’t even finish pouring. Serves cheap bastards right.
Even Mobile One 5W-30 was thick, and that’s not even at -52°F like rope has been in. Coldest air temp I’ve been in is -40°F in gdamn Fargo ND.* Stuff just ceases to work at that temp.
I know 5W-30 isn’t the thinnest cold-weather oil Mobile makes, but it’s darn close (see chart below) and you get the point. In serious cold, there’s a reason cold-weather cars/trucks use plug-in electric oil heaters all night to keep the oil fluid enough for the battery to be able to crank the engine!
At those temps, I believe many diesel trucks are simply not shut off.
0W or 0W-20 is for the coldest stuff. Got this generic chart somewhere, I forgot where.
*With the 20mph wind at the time, the windchill was -92°F, since knocked back to only -78°F when they recalculated how wind chill was, uh, calculated a number of years ago. And no, wind does not affect oil or any inanimate objects.
Imagine @rope being on a fucking snowmobile blasting along at -52°F!!! Ow butthole puckers just thinking about it
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So rope, you’re the first fellow that I know of that has actual first-hand use of that Winter Balm. I have a little tub of it that I got for free…some promotion the company was running at the time.
I used it once or twice, but the piece of crap AR I had at the time masked the lube’s abilities, it seems.
Where I live in MN doesn’t get nearly as cold as Fargo did, so I don’t have quite the same need anymore, but glad to hear your reports!
If a DLC BCG was used would that eliminate the need for lube for a short duration firing session? Say 90 rounds?
Only thing I have done was buy a cover from FHF gear the has an end cap cover to keep snow/stick/leaves/water out. Nothing else.
