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Precision Rifle Gear Tango Innovations FIRE4000 WMLRF Initial Impressions

How many times are you going to shit on this? We get it, once was enough, anything more than that is redundant and unnecessary. This is a technical forum, either provide actual feedback if you have hands-on experience, and if not go post in the Pit.

Probably a few more times. The company paid shills to talk positive about it on YouTube and skip over these huge issues.

did you actually know you had no ability to change wind, update enviro or switch profiles before you read this? I was not aware before I started to dig in here - and my posts have been centered around looking at the technical aspects and assessing viability in the real world.

I just happen to find the faults wildly unacceptable at the price point and don’t want to see someone else get got for $1400 on a cheaply designed overpriced product from an unknown company. Those all seems fair - whether you like it or not.

Edit - seems like you’re mad because you bought one of these. You should be happy about people pointing out the issues so they don’t get got like you did.
 
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I bought one and I like it. There are some annoyances, but I wanted the ability to sync with AB. I was fully aware it had no onboard enviro or wind, I bought it with the expectation to use it with a kestrel.

For me, the no AB on the vortex far outweighs the no enviro on the tango.

I’ll probably buy the magpul when it comes out as well, if it ever does. I don’t ever see myself getting the vortex unless they change their ballistics solver.
 
I bought one and I like it. There are some annoyances, but I wanted the ability to sync with AB. I was fully aware it had no onboard enviro or wind, I bought it with the expectation to use it with a kestrel.

For me, the no AB on the vortex far outweighs the no enviro on the tango.

I’ll probably buy the magpul when it comes out as well, if it ever does. I don’t ever see myself getting the vortex unless they change their ballistics solver.

I held out on the impact for a year because I’m very pro AB and wanted an ab solver.

I was finally sold on the impact once I ran a few range tables for my various calibers and they were within a .1moa of eachother in drop and wind between ab and geo. Geo has a few quirks but at the end of the day it’s all of about 7 inputs to run a ballistic calc and they’re not that different.

I’m interested in the maztech but I think it’s going to be more like $2500 if it ever comes out
 
I did buy one, and sold my Impact because the GeoBallistics, cold weather operation, and bluetooth remote presented issues I did not want to deal with and limited its effectiveness. The lack of enviro adjustment is far less a concern than the inabilities of the Impact.

But it's $1400, I don't think it's feasible to have all aspects you want in a price point far less than the competition.

No, I don't get upset over pettiness, more annoyed by your presence.
 
I did buy one, and sold my Impact because the GeoBallistics, cold weather operation, and bluetooth remote presented issues I did not want to deal with and limited its effectiveness. The lack of enviro adjustment is far less a concern than the inabilities of the Impact.

But it's $1400, I don't think it's feasible to have all aspects you want in a price point far less than the competition.

No, I don't get upset over pettiness, more annoyed by your presence.

The cold weather is concerning for the impact.

I’m not sure how well the rechargeable batteries will improve the low voltage but that seems to be the temporary fix but I live in Florida so I’m not certain and haven’t seen much by way of informal testing.

I am hopeful the maztech can deliver a unit this year at a competitive price point since it will run ab.
 
Who was it that is on here from Tango? I see in the documentation that the wired remote uses an "aviation plug" but no other information. Is there a right angle adapter that we can purchase for this? From using the term aviation plug, that makes it sound like a standard connection?
 
Who was it that is on here from Tango? I see in the documentation that the wired remote uses an "aviation plug" but no other information. Is there a right angle adapter that we can purchase for this? From using the term aviation plug, that makes it sound like a standard connection?
@Mfelici1!! Marcos do you know the answer, I was wondering exactly what cable connection it is myself
 
So you cannot change profiles, input environmental factors or input wind in standalone mode.

vortex blows this out of the water.

I’ll be shocked if the company doesnt go under and your warranty won’t be worth anything in 2 years.
Why you so worried about wind dude? You got a 4 mph gun, 6 mph gun, 8 mph gun….then you know the wind…..no wait…… you are that shit bird that gets behind his 12k AI with his 4 K TT and fuckin knob dicks the windage between your 90 second delayed shot to shot…….go be brave somewhere else….this thread is done with your stupid shit!
 
Why you so worried about wind dude? You got a 4 mph gun, 6 mph gun, 8 mph gun….then you know the wind…..no wait…… you are that shit bird that gets behind his 12k AI with his 4 K TT and fuckin knob dicks the windage between your 90 second delayed shot to shot…….go be brave somewhere else….this thread is done with your stupid shit!

Learn how to form sentences then come back and try again.
 
No bro…. I know you….shot with you many times……always ready to dispense your infinite wisdom on how to, yet never seem to connect with the steel. Poo poo everybody’s shit as if you invented the game, yet you and your shit finish bottom 25%. And you love, love,love to knobdick that windage knob……your kind is prevalent amongst the “ internet”sport. Bring some fresh knowledge and skills to the thread or STFU!
 
Why you so worried about wind dude? You got a 4 mph gun, 6 mph gun, 8 mph gun….then you know the wind…..no wait…… you are that shit bird that gets behind his 12k AI with his 4 K TT and fuckin knob dicks the windage between your 90 second delayed shot to shot…….go be brave somewhere else….this thread is done with your stupid shit!
Whoa why you calling me out like that??
 
Finally took my Tango out to the range yesterday, (got tired of larping in the basement). I got a new scope mount to get more elevation for ELR matches, however, I decided to wet mount my optic, LRF, and diving board (Badger COMM MAXX with the Impact diving board).

First, the aiming laser is bright enough to zero in full sunlight without the reflective stickers (the sun was at 12 o'clock low, and even with a sunshade, I was getting flares, and it was difficult to even find a 1" pastie at 100 yards, but the laser was plenty bright, whereas the Impact, there was no way to see the laser without the reflective stickers.

I decided to give the Tango some tugs in all directions to see POI shift, and while yes it was significant (1-1.5 mRad in each direction) it always returned back to zero, exact zero. My Impact would have a noticeable shift (0.2-0.3 mRad) when I did this. Now this may be because of the wet mount, and cannot test this with the Impact. But thus far, I'm a believer in the wet mount process, not to mention I've had industry professionals, pro shooters, and other sniper instructors (not some Army Bn level, level I-II sniper instructor) confirm this is what they do and advocate for wet mounting ANY zeroable device.
I am able to connect the Tango to Garmin Tactix 7 and control environmentals through the watch, alleviating the need for the phone (however, I didn't try to change profiles through the watch). My goal was to shoot, not necessarily test every aspect of the Tango.

LRF capability is fast and accurate, even at skylined 66% IPSC at 1648 yard with the first return, and 4 follow ups with different POAs to confirm, all yielding 1648. Whereas my Sig Kilo 10k Gen 1, was having issues and I ended up having to range the base of the target where I had a return of 1622, a significant difference. I decided to use the 1622 range, which gave a 15.0 mRad elevation (300 NM 230 Hybrids), no call, used the 1648 range (15.4 mRad, both Tactix 7 and Tango with ABI, returned 15.39 mRad) and got the impact. Granted after that it was a crapshoot using Factory Berger with an ES of 35.8 on such a small target (0.7 MOA x 1.12 MOA).

Unfortunately, attempting range hillsides around 2000 yards was not doable. The Sig can absolutely do this, but with the deviation in ranges between the two, I'm not sure how accurate the Sig actually is. Since I've had it, I have always had about +5 to +10 yard variations from given ranges at PRS matches when measured at the firing line, never a negative range.

I shoot with prescription polarized sunglasses 100% of the time unless it's a dark, cloudy day, and can confirm the screen is difficult to read but still doable. I've noticed that if you're offset, it's unreadable, but if you're directly behind it, the screen is dim but still readable (of course, I was looking into the sun; I don't know how readable it would be if the sun was to your back).

I do wish there was a way to switch the profile on the unit, as I have an AXSR, but realistically, swapping barrels is not necessarily a procedure done in the field. And all have varying zeroes, which will require the Tango to be rezeroed anyways.
 
Check your inclination, if you hold your phone horizontal (point the top of the phone at the target essentially) your inclination should read 0. See if that fixes it. For some reason this inclination setting on the phone keeps rearing it's ugly head (almost wish it just got disabled on the app). If your inclination is in the high 80s or 90 deg, it thinks youre shooting straight up on the air, which means your holds are essentially your .4mil HOB offset to infinity....
 
Check your inclination, if you hold your phone horizontal (point the top of the phone at the target essentially) your inclination should read 0. See if that fixes it. For some reason this inclination setting on the phone keeps rearing it's ugly head (almost wish it just got disabled on the app). If your inclination is in the high 80s or 90 deg, it thinks youre shooting straight up on the air, which means your holds are essentially your .4mil HOB offset to infinity....
Well, crap. lol We are talking on the phone, he is 80 miles away. I called and he had his battery removed. He held his phone and hit the inclination button on the app so it read 0. He then installed the tango battery. Once fired up, now he doesn't show ABE or ABI. See pic. Holding the "M" button doesn't do anything. He can't get the ABE or ABI to appear.
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@skyewalker You may have mentioned this earlier in this thread, but I haven't read every word. Which model of Kestrel are you using? 5700, 5700 upgraded to Elite or 5700X? Also what is your Kestrel firmware version?

Personally, I have a 5700X firmware version 2.17 I am having zero issues with my Fire4000.

My buddy's is: 5700 upgraded to an Elite. Firmware V 1.53; Hardware rev 14. ( He says it doesn't show an update available)


One thing I have noticed is the need to power cycle the Fire4K to upload a new gun profile. Be it from ABE or ABI. Also, when switching from ABE to ABI, it will pull dope from the last uploaded profile from the app, even if the ABE profile is on a different gun.

Ex: Kestrel gun profile 6.5PRC. App profile 22LR. When turning on ABE, Fire4K reads 6.5PRC dope. Switch to ABI and it reads 22LR dope (even if the app is not running). In order to use 6.5PRC dope in ABI, I must power the Fire4K off, open app and select 6.5PRC profile...turn on Fire4K. Then it will read the correct dope.

I only mention this, because it may be easy to have the wrong dope. Especially, if the dope are close.
I used 22LR vs 6.5PRC because they are easily identifiable if it is pulling dope from the wrong profile.

Another thing I have noticed, with my unit anyway, is the order in which kestrel vs Fire4K is turned on. I MUST turn my Fire4K on and THEN turn on my Kestrel. Doing it the other way, they will not pair. Kestrel shows "Searching" but will never pair. Not a huge deal, but something for me to keep in mind.
 
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I have a 5700 Elite, I finally got the Kestrel to pair with the Fire 4000 but it doesn't seem to actually DO anything. Even if I have a rifle profile on the Kestrel, connecting to the Fire 4000 and getting a range, I don't get any DOPE values on the Fire 4000 screen. Just the yardage, on ABE. ABI will at least show me a DOPE. I also don't get a range on the Kestrel. The Kestrel is as up to date according to the LiNK app.

Connecting the Fire 4000 to a Foretrex 901, I can at least get a range on the Foretrex, but the Fire 4000 still shows no DOPE at all.
 
I have a 5700 Elite, I finally got the Kestrel to pair with the Fire 4000 but it doesn't seem to actually DO anything. Even if I have a rifle profile on the Kestrel, connecting to the Fire 4000 and getting a range, I don't get any DOPE values on the Fire 4000 screen. Just the yardage, on ABE. ABI will at least show me a DOPE. I also don't get a range on the Kestrel. The Kestrel is as up to date according to the LiNK app.

Connecting the Fire 4000 to a Foretrex 901, I can at least get a range on the Foretrex, but the Fire 4000 still shows no DOPE at all.
This is similar to the issue my buddy is having. Similar, in that he can get ONE yardage and dope, but the next range, he only gets yardage, but no dope.

Try turning the Fire4K on FIRST, then the Kestrel. Even though mine shows the Bluetooth symbol (on the Fire4K) as connected, if I do it in reverse, it will not pair.

Out of curiosity, is yours an Elite or an UPGRADED 5700 to the Elite? Also, what firmware version is in your Kestrel?
 
It started out as an Elite, so not upgraded. FW is 2.15 and Boot is 2.00.

Doesn't matter which order I turn things on, the bluetooth symbol shows up on the Fire4000, the Kestrel says it is connected, but I get no communication between the 2 devices. Range doesn't update on the Kestrel, I get no DOPE at all on the Fire4000 in ABE mode. If I change rifle profiles on the Kestrel, it never updates on the Fire4000, even if I turn everything off, turn the Fire4000 back on, then the Kestrel, in ABI mode the DOPE I get is for the original rifle I had selected, not the new one on the Kestrel. ABE I still get no DOPE at all.
 
It started out as an Elite, so not upgraded. FW is 2.15 and Boot is 2.00.

Doesn't matter which order I turn things on, the bluetooth symbol shows up on the Fire4000, the Kestrel says it is connected, but I get no communication between the 2 devices. Range doesn't update on the Kestrel, I get no DOPE at all on the Fire4000 in ABE mode. If I change rifle profiles on the Kestrel, it never updates on the Fire4000, even if I turn everything off, turn the Fire4000 back on, then the Kestrel, in ABI mode the DOPE I get is for the original rifle I had selected, not the new one on the Kestrel. ABE I still get no DOPE at all.
Is your Kestrel bluetooth setting in Computer or Device? Should be "device" if i remember correctly
 
I have the 5700 AB elite (from factory, not upgraded) not sure on FW i'll have to check later. There are certainly some nuances in switching devices/profiles so it seems. It personally doesnt bother me that much since I'm mounting it on one rifle and leaving it for the most part but I will play with it some more this weekend and try to figure some of it out.
 
I have the 5700 AB elite (from factory, not upgraded) not sure on FW i'll have to check later. There are certainly some nuances in switching devices/profiles so it seems. It personally doesnt bother me that much since I'm mounting it on one rifle and leaving it for the most part but I will play with it some more this weekend and try to figure some of it out.
It's set to Device. It won't even show the connected if it's on PC/Mobile.

I'm not super concerned about changing the profiles, I was using it more for a test to see if communication was actually happening and it doesn't seem to be. Even though both devices show the connected icon, there doesn't seem to actually BE communication. As I said above, I'm not getting a range on the Kestrel and I'm not getting any form of DOPE on the Fire4000 in ABE.
 
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It's set to Device. It won't even show the connected if it's on PC/Mobile.

I'm not super concerned about changing the profiles, I was using it more for a test to see if communication was actually happening and it doesn't seem to be. Even though both devices show the connected icon, there doesn't seem to actually BE communication. As I said above, I'm not getting a range on the Kestrel and I'm not getting any form of DOPE on the Fire4000 in ABE.
I had mentioned this in the main post, I wonder if you have the same scenario happening just backwards : "One other thing I noticed is that when you’re in AB external and connected to the Kestrel, simply switching to AB internal doesn’t automatically pick up the BOSS app on the phone. It’s like the kestrel is keeping the device locked in. I have to disconnect the kestrel first before the AB internal picks up the phone app."
 
I had mentioned this in the main post, I wonder if you have the same scenario happening just backwards : "One other thing I noticed is that when you’re in AB external and connected to the Kestrel, simply switching to AB internal doesn’t automatically pick up the BOSS app on the phone. It’s like the kestrel is keeping the device locked in. I have to disconnect the kestrel first before the AB internal picks up the phone app."
OK, update to my issue at least. The Kestrel will NOT accept any range information inside of 100 yards from the Fire4000.

Going off what you had said skyewalker, I tried connecting to the BOSS app just to see what it would do. It connected just as expected to BOSS. While still in the BOSS app, I turned on the Kestrel and had the same experience as you were asking about. The Kestrel would not connect to the Fire4000. Shut off the BOSS app and restarted the Kestrel, and it connected up as expected.

Here is where it gets interesting, when I tried ranging again, the Kestrel actually gave an error, "Received invalid target data" which it had never said before. So communication was obviously now occurring! Armed with this new information, I went outside with the Fire4000 and the Kestrel. Anything from 5 yards out to 95ish and the Kestrel would always say "Received invalid target data"

Once I found something beyond 100 yards to range, in this case 167 yards, it sent the data to the Kestrel, the Kestrel updated the yardage and I had DOPE on the Fire4000! Tried again on something closer, 26 yards, and once more the Kestrel showed "Received invalid target data"

I need to pull out my VectorX and TerrapinX and get the Kestrel paired to either of them and see if the same "inside of 100 yards" causes the Kestrel to throw an error.

For now, I am happy with this knowledge. Not like I'll be doing many inside of 100 yard shots with a 6.5 CM or 300PRC. But rimfire is another matter. But really, that isn't that big of a use case for me.
 
OK, update to my issue at least. The Kestrel will NOT accept any range information inside of 100 yards from the Fire4000.

Going off what you had said skyewalker, I tried connecting to the BOSS app just to see what it would do. It connected just as expected to BOSS. While still in the BOSS app, I turned on the Kestrel and had the same experience as you were asking about. The Kestrel would not connect to the Fire4000. Shut off the BOSS app and restarted the Kestrel, and it connected up as expected.

Here is where it gets interesting, when I tried ranging again, the Kestrel actually gave an error, "Received invalid target data" which it had never said before. So communication was obviously now occurring! Armed with this new information, I went outside with the Fire4000 and the Kestrel. Anything from 5 yards out to 95ish and the Kestrel would always say "Received invalid target data"

Once I found something beyond 100 yards to range, in this case 167 yards, it sent the data to the Kestrel, the Kestrel updated the yardage and I had DOPE on the Fire4000! Tried again on something closer, 26 yards, and once more the Kestrel showed "Received invalid target data"

I need to pull out my VectorX and TerrapinX and get the Kestrel paired to either of them and see if the same "inside of 100 yards" causes the Kestrel to throw an error.

For now, I am happy with this knowledge. Not like I'll be doing many inside of 100 yard shots with a 6.5 CM or 300PRC. But rimfire is another matter. But really, that isn't that big of a use case for me.
Just heads up I have no issues with either ABI or ABE under 100yds. Also FW1.53 rev14b
 

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