Vehicle hail damage question

Smitty192

Smitty192

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Feb 23, 2017
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#1
I went out of town and my truck got hammered during an overnight hail storm. Golf ball sized hail damage to every surface of the damn thing.

I'm familiar with how the process works on the property side, but not auto. Specifically, the threshold of repair vs. totaling a vehicle. I don't know how much damage paintless dent removal can repair. I'm not sure the process works of totaling a vehicle and options to buy it back from the insurance carrier.

I filed a claim and I'm waiting on the adjuster appointment.

Any insight or experiences would be greatly appreciated.

2020 Dodge Ram
115,000 miles
Last payment will be Sept. 2025
Kelly Blue Book value is $24,100

Thanks
 
#3
My best guess it that they will total it for the body damage. They may offer to let you buy it back, but it not, ask them if you can. If they say no, then find out who they are selling it to. There are two big companies that do auctions for totalled/stolen vehicles. It may take it a few month to show up at an auction. Give them only 1 set of keys and keep your spares if you are planning on buying it back, as sometimes the keys get lost.....

Online Salvage Car Auctions: Repairable & Used Vehicles | IAA

Buy used, repairable & salvage vehicles by auction 24/7 worldwide. IAA online auto auctions include cars, trucks, motorcycles & much more. Register free!
www.iaai.com
 
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#6
If it’s large golf ball size hail it will take conventional repair. Probably get a roof and most panels replaced which will total it out. In 01 when I was a body man. My shop worked on hail repair for over three years. If it was up to me if my car got large hail. I would let them total it and go buy another used or new one. Fuck that repaired every panel shit.

Ask yourself do you want to drive around a beat up truck. Because if you ever decide to sell it with the salvage title it will be worth next to nothing.
 
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#7
Oh and watch out for the to good to be true deals in your area for awhile. We saw here where people did not have insurance cars got repaired and people tried passing them off as low mile great body never been repaired before cars. Insurance companies did not total them so carfax had no idea they were complete junk when people went to check. I had many cars people wanted to buy and I looked and found paint line, overspray and tell tail signs the cars had been painted before and it was either complete or almost complete resprays.
 
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#10
Sniperwannabee said:
Exactly just drive it
Click to expand...
I have seen a lot of people do that. Just drive it. It won't have resale value or trade-in value but it will soon be paid for and keep it as a spare or sell it cheap to a high school student looking for his or her first vehicle. Extra points in my book if you sell it to a hunter.
 
#13
Typically if the repair exceeds 50 percent of current market value they will total it. So if they are going for 24k and its 12k to fix it, it will probably get totaled, ymmv of course.
 
#14
Smitty192 said:
I went out of town and my truck got hammered during an overnight hail storm. Golf ball sized hail damage to every surface of the damn thing.

I'm familiar with how the process works on the property side, but not auto. Specifically, the threshold of repair vs. totaling a vehicle. I don't know how much damage paintless dent removal can repair. I'm not sure the process works of totaling a vehicle and options to buy it back from the insurance carrier.

I filed a claim and I'm waiting on the adjuster appointment.

Any insight or experiences would be greatly appreciated.

2020 Dodge Ram
115,000 miles
Last payment will be Sept. 2025
Kelly Blue Book value is $24,100

Thanks
Click to expand...

kl3309 said:
Paintless dent repair isn't going to work for a whole panel, especially if there are contour lines pressed into it.
Click to expand...
I disagree! Our brand new pilot got stuck out in a hail storm, that sucker has dents everywhere. Hood, roof, front fenders, some rear quarters. Insurance paid for it and we took it to one of those PDR places and after 3 days and $6000 later it looked brand new. It wasn’t cheap and I debated it because I’m old school and thought fixing/replacing panels would be the best/only way! I was wrong. And it’s a pretty lucrative biz too, obviously, if you can get trained well enough on it.
 
#15
Amount to total is state dependent. Wife's jeep had major hail repair last fall. Every panel, new hood, new tail lights, and windshield, it looks almost as good as new, but great for a 5 year old car with 110k. It was probably around 70% of the value, but Wyoming is 75% of value, and used values are still pretty high.
 
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#19
SDet said:
Amount to total is state dependent. Wife's jeep had major hail repair last fall. Every panel, new hood, new tail lights, and windshield, it looks almost as good as new, but great for a 5 year old car with 110k. It was probably around 70% of the value, but Wyoming is 75% of value, and used values are still pretty high.
Click to expand...
Looks like TX is 100%
 
#21
SilentStalkr said:
I disagree! Our brand new pilot got stuck out in a hail storm, that sucker has dents everywhere. Hood, roof, front fenders, some rear quarters. Insurance paid for it and we took it to one of those PDR places and after 3 days and $6000 later it looked brand new. It wasn’t cheap and I debated it because I’m old school and thought fixing/replacing panels would be the best/only way! I was wrong. And it’s a pretty lucrative biz too, obviously, if you can get trained well enough on it.
Click to expand...
Bet you my knit-pickin' ass could find every single dent that got pushed out.
 
#22
kl3309 said:
Bet you my knit-pickin' ass could find every single dent that got pushed out.
Click to expand...
I have had PDR performed twice by some of the best in the industry. No way could you find any of the dents they repaired on my Mustang. It all depends on the dent and the repair person.
 
#23
My truck got beat up a fair bit Saturday morning by up to golfball size hail in southern Indiana, gonna take it to a PDR guy Friday but he told me he's seen a number of vehicles that will require an insurance claim.
 
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#24
Ankeny said:
I have had PDR performed twice by some of the best in the industry. No way could you find any of the dents they repaired on my Mustang. It all depends on the dent and the repair person.
Click to expand...
I accept your challenge. Bring your car by and I'll put a bank of lights on it.
 
#25
Got a killer deal on an '03 Dodge quad cab in '04. '06 got hail damaged. insurance totaled it, got as much as I paid for it. Offered to let me keep it for $2K. Just sold it late last year for $2K. Drove it for 20 years, was my Home Depot truck. I replaced every window motor assembly in that damn thing at least 3 times. After the first time, they were free (lifetime warranty). Got to where I could do it in 20 minutes.
 
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#27
I'm in the industry. Basically if the cost of repair/pdr exceeds the replacement cost of the panel or is close you just get a new panel. It's not uncommon to replace roofs and hoods for hail. Usually at about 80% of the vehicle value we write it up as a total loss. Sometimes the insurance value is higher or they want us to fix it for whatever reason.
 
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#28
M4orturnate said:
I'm in the industry. Basically if the cost of repair/pdr exceeds the replacement cost of the panel or is close you just get a new panel. It's not uncommon to replace roofs and hoods for hail. Usually at about 80% of the vehicle value we write it up as a total loss. Sometimes the insurance value is higher or they want us to fix it for whatever reason.
Click to expand...
Good info, thanks.

Is there a set or approximate percentage amount they use to calculate the total you can buy back a totaled vehicle for?
 
#30
Smitty192 said:
Good info, thanks.

Is there a set or approximate percentage amount they use to calculate the total you can buy back a totaled vehicle for?
Click to expand...
That I don't know. Your insurance co will have their own metrics to value your car. If you're not happy with them you can get a public adjuster involved for a fee and they will bend them over for you.
 
#32
kl3309 said:
Paintless dent repair isn't going to work for a whole panel, especially if there are contour lines pressed into it.
Click to expand...

It does if you find a guy that's good at it. I've seen them even pull the contour lines back into place.

Wife's traverse has been hailed out twice. $8k and $9k later, it looks brand new. Both times were within a year of brand new, so they were a long ways from totalling it.

They use the lights with a grid to see every little thing, and it does take an artists touch. Wife actually went to school for auto body, and hated pdr. She can't do it for shit, but she has the eye to pick out every little thing.

There's a ton of people going pdr that aren't great though, so it wouldn't surprise me if you haven't seen great results.
 
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#33
Smitty192 said:
I went out of town and my truck got hammered during an overnight hail storm. Golf ball sized hail damage to every surface of the damn thing.

I'm familiar with how the process works on the property side, but not auto. Specifically, the threshold of repair vs. totaling a vehicle. I don't know how much damage paintless dent removal can repair. I'm not sure the process works of totaling a vehicle and options to buy it back from the insurance carrier.

I filed a claim and I'm waiting on the adjuster appointment.

Any insight or experiences would be greatly appreciated.

2020 Dodge Ram
115,000 miles
Last payment will be Sept. 2025
Kelly Blue Book value is $24,100

Thanks
Click to expand...
The term "total loss" is an economic term, it doesn't mean the vehicle is undriveable. The total loss threshold and titling requirements are set by either the state the vehicle is garaged in or the state where the damage occurred whichever is stricter. Most states require title branding when the damage reaches 75% of Actual Cash Value (ACV), some states are as low as 65%. Some states have exceptions for cosmetic damage, and some states deduct paint and materials from the repair cost when determining a total loss. Some states do not issue branded titles for storm related damaged vehicles, they are deemed unrepairable if declared a total loss..

Kelly Blue Book is not used by very many insurance companies anymore. NADA is used by most and is the most generous to the vehicle owner. Book value does not determine ACV, factors like condition, modifications and comparable sale vehicles factor into the ACV. Some states and insurance policies limit the dollar amount of modifications covered by the standard policy, usually to $1000. If there are more than $1000 in modifications the vehicle owner has to declare them and pay an additional premium if they want them covered. Be aware, modifications do not necessarily increase the value of a vehicle, sometimes they decrease the value. An example of that would be the retards that cut holes in the beds of their trucks and install exhaust stacks. Lift kits and tires and wheels that stick out past the body can decrease the value because it limits the prospective buyer pool.

Paintless Dent Repair (PDR) can fix an amazing amount of damage, however it can't fix everything. Many areas of a vehicle are not accessible with PDR tools without drilling holes. The insurance company will not pay to drill holes so those areas of repair will be written to do conventional body and paint repairs.

If you have a title with a lien holder release you can cash settle with your insurance company. You just tell them you want to owner retain the vehicle. They will get a salvage quote from salvage vendors and subtract that from the settlement amount. That process can take several months before you get a branded title back and you can drive the vehicle again. Many states require safety inspections before new license plates will be issued. Once a branded title is issued you will not be able to buy physical damage coverage from your insurance company. You can still get liability coverage.

DM me if you have any specific questions about your claim or your insurance company.

@MarinePMI (y)
 
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#34
chevy_man said:
It does if you find a guy that's good at it. I've seen them even pull the contour lines back into place.

Wife's traverse has been hailed out twice. $8k and $9k later, it looks brand new. Both times were within a year of brand new, so they were a long ways from totalling it.

They use the lights with a grid to see every little thing, and it does take an artists touch. Wife actually went to school for auto body, and hated pdr. She can't do it for shit, but she has the eye to pick out every little thing.

There's a ton of people going pdr that aren't great though, so it wouldn't surprise me if you haven't seen great results.
Click to expand...
Seems like a lot of assholes buy a pdr kit from Amazon, watch a YouTube video and start a pdr business.
 
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#35
Im2bent said:
Seems like a lot of assholes buy a pdr kit from Amazon, watch a YouTube video and start a pdr business.
Click to expand...
Yes and they almost all suck at it. PDR is not something that is learned overnight. A lot of consolidator body shops like Caliber, MAACO and CarStar say they do PDR but they don't. They just call in a PDR vendor to do the work and mark up their bill on your invoice.
 
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#37
kl3309 said:
Bet you my knit-pickin' ass could find every single dent that got pushed out.
Click to expand...
I bet you can’t! I’m super OCD and used to work in the biz! Trust me when I say you can’t tell. I found one of the hood under lights, out of hundreds. It all depends on who is doing it. I was impressed. But for $6000 I should have been.

Ankeny said:
I have had PDR performed twice by some of the best in the industry. No way could you find any of the dents they repaired on my Mustang. It all depends on the dent and the repair person.
Click to expand...
This!
 
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#38
Years ago while I was still a tech, the owner of the dealership had purchased a Pantera and had it shipped from Florida to CA. It was recently restored and had fresh paint. Dumbass didn't pay for covered transport and had it sent on a flatbed. It went through a hail storm and not a single panel was straight. The paintless dent guy spent 1 month working 8 hours a day and he was able to get all of the golf ball dents out. This was back in 2000-2001 time frame. Unsure if there are that many skilled guys out there now.

Also a lot of the newer vehicles have much thinner steel panels now. Body shops will replace entire panels because they cannot work the steel back to shape. Good luck.

I do remember Mythbusters testing the golf ball dimpled car and it got better mileage. Might be worth not fixing...
 
#39
168BTHPM said:
The term "total loss" is an economic term, it doesn't mean the vehicle is undriveable. The total loss threshold and titling requirements are set by either the state the vehicle is garaged in or the state where the damage occurred whichever is stricter. Most states require title branding when the damage reaches 75% of Actual Cash Value (ACV), some states are as low as 65%. Some states have exceptions for cosmetic damage, and some states deduct paint and materials from the repair cost when determining a total loss. Some states do not issue branded titles for storm related damaged vehicles, they are deemed unrepairable if declared a total loss..

Kelly Blue Book is not used by very many insurance companies anymore. NADA is used by most and is the most generous to the vehicle owner. Book value does not determine ACV, factors like condition, modifications and comparable sale vehicles factor into the ACV. Some states and insurance policies limit the dollar amount of modifications covered by the standard policy, usually to $1000. If there are more than $1000 in modifications the vehicle owner has to declare them and pay an additional premium if they want them covered. Be aware, modifications do not necessarily increase the value of a vehicle, sometimes they decrease the value. An example of that would be the retards that cut holes in the beds of their trucks and install exhaust stacks. Lift kits and tires and wheels that stick out past the body can decrease the value because it limits the prospective buyer pool.

Paintless Dent Repair (PDR) can fix an amazing amount of damage, however it can't fix everything. Many areas of a vehicle are not accessible with PDR tools without drilling holes. The insurance company will not pay to drill holes so those areas of repair will be written to do conventional body and paint repairs.

If you have a title with a lien holder release you can cash settle with your insurance company. You just tell them you want to owner retain the vehicle. They will get a salvage quote from salvage vendors and subtract that from the settlement amount. That process can take several months before you get a branded title back and you can drive the vehicle again. Many states require safety inspections before new license plates will be issued. Once a branded title is issued you will not be able to buy physical damage coverage from your insurance company. You can still get liability coverage.

DM me if you have any specific questions about your claim or your insurance company.

@MarinePMI (y)
Click to expand...
Thank you so much for the datailed information and explanation. I appreciate the offer to reach out.
 
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#41
Holliday said:
This question is for everyone.

What are the implications/ negatives of owning a vehicle with a salvage title? Leaving out the obvious which is resale value. Suppose you just want to drive it till the wheels fall off?
Click to expand...
Depends on what caused it to be totaled. I’ve seen bent frames and smelled cars that had been through floods and sold on a salvage title.
 
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#43
Holliday said:
This question is for everyone.

What are the implications/ negatives of owning a vehicle with a salvage title? Leaving out the obvious which is resale value. Suppose you just want to drive it till the wheels fall off?
Click to expand...
You can only get liability insurance on a salvage title so if it gets fucked up again it's out of your pocket as far as fixing it. As said above it may not be fixable, but if it drives and does not stink go for it. And yes I'm driving a salvage title car as we speak.
 
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#44
Modoc said:
Depends on what caused it to be totaled. I’ve seen bent frames and smelled cars that had been through floods and sold on a salvage title.
Click to expand...
Nothing wrong with structural damage, frame or unibody, being repaired. Shops don't spend $100K plus on frame racks and measuring systems to not be able to fix that stuff. Just because a truck has a "bent frame" doesn't mean it's a total loss. Some damage exceeds repairability on a frame, in those cases that isn't the only thing damaged on the vehicle. Even when a frame isn't repairable that isn't a determining factor whether or not it's a total loss. A new frame is $6K to $10K depending on the truck and about 40 to 60 hours to swap out. If you are dealing with a $100K truck a frame swap is a no brainer if the damage exceeds repairability on the frame. Sometimes a frame gets replaced, not due to the severity of the damage, but due to the location of the damage.

With unibody vehicles, replacing structural components is much more common. Some structural components are sacrificial and designed to manage collision energy.

A lot of states have water damage thresholds that are much lower than the total loss threshold before the title gets branded. Some states do not allow water damaged vehicles to be retitled. The water damage does not have to be from a flood, any source of water can cause a title to be branded "water damaged".
 
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#45
Im2bent said:
You can only get liability insurance on a salvage title so if it gets fucked up again it's out of your pocket as far as fixing it. As said above it may not be fixable, but if it drives and does not stink go for it. And yes I'm driving a salvage title car as we speak.
Click to expand...
The salvage title prevents you from buying property damage coverage, but it does not prevent another person or insurance company from having to repair your car if the damage is their fault. They would still have to settle a claim based on the physical damage caused or the ACV of the vehicle in the event it was totaled again.

The at fault insurance company would have to determine how much the branded title and/or unrepaired damage effected the value of your car. As a rule of thumb a branded title effects the value by 25% to 33%, but there is no fast and hard rule, it's up to negotiation. If there was approx $2K in unrepaired damage it's not a dollar for dollar deduction. What matters is how it effects the ACV of the vehicle. Just using round numbers, say your car in clean undamaged condition was worth $10K. They might deduct $2K for a branded title (some companies don't do this) and if say the unrepaired damage was cosmetic and didn't effect the function of the vehicle they might deduct $500-$1000 depending on how it would effect the resale of the vehicle. You might still get a $7K to $8K settlement because the responsible party owes you for your loss. In this case your loss would be you no longer have a perfectly functional car that is worth $10K if it didn't have the branded title and unrepaired cosmetic damage.

An insurance company can also not stack claims to total a vehicle. If you have a $20K vehicle that is involved in an accident that causes $8K in front end damage, but before you get that fixed you get rear ended and that accident causes $8K in damage. Now you have a $20K vehicle with a total of $16K damage which will exceed the statutory 75% total loss threshold. Those two claims can't be stacked to total the vehicle. Each claim must be handle on its own merits. The responsible party for the front end damage must settle their claim on its merits and pay to repair that damage. For the second claim the adjuster would have to determine how much the front end damage effects the over all ACV of the vehicle, then determine if their loss totals the car. The vehicle owner still has the right to collect on both claims.
 
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#46
168BTHPM said:
The salvage title prevents you from buying property damage coverage, but it does not prevent another person or insurance company from having to repair your car if the damage is their fault. They would still have to settle a claim based on the physical damage caused or the ACV of the vehicle in the event it was totaled again.

The at fault insurance company would have to determine how much the branded title and/or unrepaired damage effected the value of your car. As a rule of thumb a branded title effects the value by 25% to 33%, but there is no fast and hard rule, it's up to negotiation. If there was approx $2K in unrepaired damage it's not a dollar for dollar deduction. What matters is how it effects the ACV of the vehicle. Just using round numbers, say your car in clean undamaged condition was worth $10K. They might deduct $2K for a branded title (some companies don't do this) and if say the unrepaired damage was cosmetic and didn't effect the function of the vehicle they might deduct $500-$1000 depending on how it would effect the resale of the vehicle. You might still get a $7K to $8K settlement because the responsible party owes you for your loss. In this case your loss would be you no longer have a perfectly functional car that is worth $10K if it didn't have the branded title and unrepaired cosmetic damage.

An insurance company can also not stack claims to total a vehicle. If you have a $20K vehicle that is involved in an accident that causes $8K in front end damage, but before you get that fixed you get rear ended and that accident causes $8K in damage. Now you have a $20K vehicle with a total of $16K damage which will exceed the statutory 75% total loss threshold. Those two claims can't be stacked to total the vehicle. Each claim must be handle on its own merits. The responsible party for the front end damage must settle their claim on its merits and pay to repair that damage. For the second claim the adjuster would have to determine how much the front end damage effects the over all ACV of the vehicle, then determine if their loss totals the car. The vehicle owner still has the right to collect on both claims.
Click to expand...
I need to call or text you! AJ might have already filled you in.
 
#48
Holliday said:
Well I have a 20 year old pickup w/ 80k that I bought new and have taken exceptional care of. I have also done a lot of mods over the years. I really enjoy that truck. Easy to work on. Cheap parts and no payments.

I have had full coverage w/ State Farm all the years. I know one good hail storm and they would total it. I could never replace it for what they would give me for it. (Freakin scam). Just wondering what I would be in to if I kept it with a salvage title.
Click to expand...

It's old enough it's almost silly to have full coverage anyways.

The extended cab short box half ton is also the most likely to find in Grandpa's garage with 20k on it. Also the cheapest models with zero resale because who wants an extended cab?

My 03 costs like $25/yr for liability. Take all the insurance you've payed since it was worth less than $20k, and you'd be able to buy another truck.

If you're ok with tools, there's about 5 million of those trucks still around. So even if it does get hailed out toss some parts at it. Not hard to find a rear end collision total that you could get an entire front clip, hood, and doors from. Can't see the roof...😂
 
Last edited:
#49
Im2bent said:
You can only get liability insurance on a salvage title so if it gets fucked up again it's out of your pocket as far as fixing it. As said above it may not be fixable, but if it drives and does not stink go for it. And yes I'm driving a salvage title car as we speak.
Click to expand...


Most places will also do full coverage with exceptions. The wife bought 1 traverse with existing hail damage. It was noted in the policy that the comprehensive wouldn't cover any more hail damage, but would cover anything else. Was a screaming deal at about 50% of book. I don't remember it being a salvage title even with hail damage on every panel.

She got tired of looking at that one within a couple years and ordered a new one.
 
#50
Holliday said:
Well I have a 20 year old pickup w/ 80k that I bought new and have taken exceptional care of. I have also done a lot of mods over the years. I really enjoy that truck. Easy to work on. Cheap parts and no payments.

I have had full coverage w/ State Farm all the years. I know one good hail storm and they would total it. I could never replace it for what they would give me for it. (Freakin scam). Just wondering what I would be in to if I kept it with a salvage title.
Click to expand...
First off, there is no such thing as "full coverage". The term "full coverage" is a common myth people that don't understand insurance use. Typically people that have collision and comprehensive say they have full coverage and don't take into account deductible amounts, coverage limits, uninsured/underinsured bodily injury, uninsured/underinsured property damage, rental coverage, roadside assistance, riders for vehicle modifications, business exemptions, OEM replacement parts riders, or specialized coverages based on the usage of the vehicle.

Your truck will never be worth what you put into it. An example would be you can not take a $2000 vehicle and put on $8000 in tires and wheels and a $10K stereo in it and expect to have a $20K vehicle. It's still a $2K vehicle, the tires and wheels may add a little value. A $10K stereo will not add anything to the value, in some cases it may decrease the value, especially if holes were cut for speakers and the dash modified to install it. You always have the option of removing any modifications and keeping the equipment. You will have to put the stock tires & wheels and stereo back on the car or negotiate a deduction if you no longer have them.

As far as State Farm scamming, not fucking likely. The three best insurance companies when it comes to settling total losses are USAA, American Family and State Farm. It's only a scam if you believe it is, you always have the option of not paying for comp and collision coverage if the vehicle is paid for. You are the one that has to decide which coverages, which deductibles and what limits you buy.

I don't know what you are trying to ask with this, "Just wondering what I would be in to if I kept it with a salvage title." If you are asking what the process is in Wyoming to retain a total loss, I am not familiar with the current state laws and title branding requirements in WY. I haven't worked in that state in 20 years. Below is what Google says about WY, but take that with a grain of salt.

The "if you repair" language below pertains to making the vehicle safe to operate on public roads. It does not mean you have to fix cosmetic issues that do not effect function.

1742273799414.png
 
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