Which thing made the biggest difference?
- Thread starter WVshooter
- Start date
Adjusting neck tension with bushings, or mandrels, was the biggest single change I did for reloads.
Good barrel with coordinated reamer, matched to good bullet and brass..... the rest is easy, but without those I don't care what you do for brass prep, propellant, or primer, because it won't matter.
Getting seating force right ... due to a combination of (a) Annealing, (b) FL Bushing Sizing, (c) Mandrel, (d) NeoLube #2, and finally (e) my Amp Press. Making mistakes up-stream are super hard to find if you don't actually know the force it takes to seat a bullet. Taking the guesswork out of that with my AMP Press allowed me to optimize those upstream adjustments to give me the seating force and neck tension that really optimized my reloads.
Good brass and consistent methods. Not chasing a certain velocity. Once you have a good accurate load developed stick with it.
Now you got me thinking. I was only thinking of seating force as a product of the neck tension but I guess annealing would make a difference too for how hard the brass fought the expanding of pressing the bullet in.
What’s the lube for? Using it on the necks for sizing?
I have a structured barrel made by Kreiger treated by Tacom HQ
blueprinted chamber reamed for a specific load ( comparator length and COAL ) for exact bullets I plan to use …..to the exact measurements I was going to use with the exact bullets ( a range of ) I was going to use reloading
Then
Notes. Keeping track of conditions wind and temp etc
Shoot regularly ( weekly )
Enjoy the facts good or bad
Shooting is not called grouping and or hitting targets for a reason
It is shooting
I love going out and enjoying shooting for what it is and surprising self with solid impacts is super fun
This rifle above? Groups well at all ranges and compared to my .22 lr? It is better than I am….. but shooting .22 out to 300-500 yards is the same
Attitude and effort
blueprinted chamber reamed for a specific load ( comparator length and COAL ) for exact bullets I plan to use …..to the exact measurements I was going to use with the exact bullets ( a range of ) I was going to use reloading
Then
Notes. Keeping track of conditions wind and temp etc
Shoot regularly ( weekly )
Enjoy the facts good or bad
Shooting is not called grouping and or hitting targets for a reason
It is shooting
I love going out and enjoying shooting for what it is and surprising self with solid impacts is super fun
This rifle above? Groups well at all ranges and compared to my .22 lr? It is better than I am….. but shooting .22 out to 300-500 yards is the same
Attitude and effort
I use NeoLube #2 on the inside of the case necks prior to my mandrel step, and leave the residual there to aid in bullet seating. Works great for me.
My Reloading Rules for Long Range Shooting
Just thought I'd toss this out there. I have repeated a lot of mistakes that I should have known from experience not to, so I made a list for myself to post over my bench. Some will get folks' feathers ruffled - they shouldn't, these are for me, if you don't like them, then by all means you do...
www.snipershide.com
Barrel, bullet, and shooter. And good SD (Fx120 scale). And avoid temp sensitive powders. Well, all of the above^, really
For me after getting more experience the improvements become smaller(and more expensive) in nature. It can be different things for different cartridges. For my 300 WM just switching to Lapua brass made a noticeable difference. Sometimes It is a surprise. Imperial Sizing Wax made an instant improvement for sizing and shoulder bump. The more you shoot the better everything gets.
Personally, the more I reload, the more I come to the conclusion that (at least for modern high quality bullets, brass, etc.,) many of the things people obsess over in reloading don't actually matter/do anything.
In my experience, your bullet, primer, powder combination has the biggest impact on group size. The right primer is mainly important for velocity consistency. Everything else (e.g. seating depth, charge weight, primer pocket uniforming, weight sorting brass, volume sorting brass, etc.,) is basically a waste of time, in my experience. That said, maybe some of these things are important for certain bullets types or certain brass. I personally haven't seen it.
The truth is that most modern "load development" methods consist of shooting a single 3 or 5 shot group with some parameter at a certain value and comparing it to other 3 or 5 shot groups with various values of that parameter. This is statistically insignificant data and there's no way it can be used tell if one powder charge weight, seating depth, etc., is better than another.
In my experience, your bullet, primer, powder combination has the biggest impact on group size. The right primer is mainly important for velocity consistency. Everything else (e.g. seating depth, charge weight, primer pocket uniforming, weight sorting brass, volume sorting brass, etc.,) is basically a waste of time, in my experience. That said, maybe some of these things are important for certain bullets types or certain brass. I personally haven't seen it.
The truth is that most modern "load development" methods consist of shooting a single 3 or 5 shot group with some parameter at a certain value and comparing it to other 3 or 5 shot groups with various values of that parameter. This is statistically insignificant data and there's no way it can be used tell if one powder charge weight, seating depth, etc., is better than another.
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I used to run cleaned up Federal brass then moved to Lapua. I saw no major difference in ES or SD from the brass change. I do save more time not cleaning up brass which was the point. I do use the mandrel, with NeoLube, after bushing sizing. It takes only a few minutes to use the mandrel so, with costs going up, I figure I might as well.
Primers, you tune with the powder and bullet combo. Seating depth will have a huge influence in accuracy. You can see it as you change the seating depths. But I agree with the other stuff like sorting brass, bullets ect, one can probably not shoot the difference. But for sure, seating depths you can.
Yes, I agree that primers you tune with the powder and bullet combo. I was mainly trying to say, in my experience, your primer has little impact on group size at close range (assuming the primers are consistent and not total crap). In my experience primers mainly affect the consistency of your velocity. The OP asked about ELR, so, yes, your primer, bullet, powder combination would be very important then.
Personally, I haven't seen seating depth make any significant/noticeable difference in group size. It may just be the bullet types I have used aren't sensitive to seating depth though.
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I'm getting more and more about consistency as a whole. I think the fancy processes are good, but more beneficial in sports like benchrest where you win or lose by very small margins. I spend way less time loading than I used to but my ammo shoots every bit as good as it did before.
Biggest improvement for me was stop obsessing over the infinite micro details and just shoot more.
I load my match ammo on a Hornady lnl ammo plant using a case feeder. Stressing less about the ammo and shooting more because loading is less of a chore has made me a significantly better shooter!
With that out of the way. Quality components purchase in bulk so that you don’t have the possibility of different lots messing with you would be my advice.
I load my match ammo on a Hornady lnl ammo plant using a case feeder. Stressing less about the ammo and shooting more because loading is less of a chore has made me a significantly better shooter!
With that out of the way. Quality components purchase in bulk so that you don’t have the possibility of different lots messing with you would be my advice.
Best move for me was giving up on the idea that just one more reloading tool was going to provide amazing results.
Do your best with what you have and shoot more. Focus on upgrading equipment only when its clear there is a specific issue to be resolved.
Do your best with what you have and shoot more. Focus on upgrading equipment only when its clear there is a specific issue to be resolved.
Spending a few hours with a professional shooting coach, total of three visits.My reloads were not the limiting factor.
GAP rifle, Lapua brass, 175 SMK, FGMM primers, RL15, RCBS charge master scale, coax press, Redding competition dies. I used gauges and precision measuring tools to measure everything, set the dies, and check every loaded round.
I am certain there are better shooters and reloaders who could take it to the next level.
GAP rifle, Lapua brass, 175 SMK, FGMM primers, RL15, RCBS charge master scale, coax press, Redding competition dies. I used gauges and precision measuring tools to measure everything, set the dies, and check every loaded round.
I am certain there are better shooters and reloaders who could take it to the next level.
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Check every loaded round?
Please elaborate about what is being checked, what is found, what is done to “remedy”, and how much time it takes
I get fed up just wiping lube off loaded rounds
But I still do it
Please elaborate about what is being checked, what is found, what is done to “remedy”, and how much time it takes
I get fed up just wiping lube off loaded rounds
But I still do it
Why do you wipe lube off by hand? Honest question.
I lube a few hundred cases in a plastic tote with lanolin
Dump them in the case feeder and run them through the press which first spot deprimes, 2nd full length sized with Forster non bushing die, then next is a mandrel to set neck tension.
Then all the cases go back into the tumbler to clean off lube.
Once clean, I run them through the giraurd trimmer to re chamfer the mouths and then dumped back into the case feeder.
Last run through the press, first spot is de prime die fo clear the flash hole of media, then prime, next is a mandrel in case a neck got bent, then a Dillon powder funnel stage where I pour the charge from my ip trickler, last is seating the bullet then to the horror of everyone, I even let the loaded rounds fall into the catch hopper and let it fill up until it full and I let my kids take them and fill the ammo boxes.
I am not a top prs shooter by any means but placed top 5 at my last guardian match and usually top 10 at the local matches. If I get to that point I may need to be a little more careful, but I regularly beat people with these crazy loading routines that if they just shot more instead of fretting in the loading room would be better shooters.
I lube a few hundred cases in a plastic tote with lanolin
Dump them in the case feeder and run them through the press which first spot deprimes, 2nd full length sized with Forster non bushing die, then next is a mandrel to set neck tension.
Then all the cases go back into the tumbler to clean off lube.
Once clean, I run them through the giraurd trimmer to re chamfer the mouths and then dumped back into the case feeder.
Last run through the press, first spot is de prime die fo clear the flash hole of media, then prime, next is a mandrel in case a neck got bent, then a Dillon powder funnel stage where I pour the charge from my ip trickler, last is seating the bullet then to the horror of everyone, I even let the loaded rounds fall into the catch hopper and let it fill up until it full and I let my kids take them and fill the ammo boxes.
I am not a top prs shooter by any means but placed top 5 at my last guardian match and usually top 10 at the local matches. If I get to that point I may need to be a little more careful, but I regularly beat people with these crazy loading routines that if they just shot more instead of fretting in the loading room would be better shooters.
Consistency in my processes equals consistency on the range for me.
There is no "ah-ha!" moment for me, but I have tried simplifying certain parts of how I reload over the years...and some have yielded horrible results, so I just went back to what worked.
I will say that annealing first has improved my brass uniformity much more than I would gave thought. I just started that last year.
And all of this is moot if you can't shoot well enough to consistently see the difference.
There is no "ah-ha!" moment for me, but I have tried simplifying certain parts of how I reload over the years...and some have yielded horrible results, so I just went back to what worked.
I will say that annealing first has improved my brass uniformity much more than I would gave thought. I just started that last year.
And all of this is moot if you can't shoot well enough to consistently see the difference.
Taking note how the ammo does at the distances I was going to shoot at.
Once I did that I stopped chasing velocities and loaded for what my barrel liked
Once I did that I stopped chasing velocities and loaded for what my barrel liked
