Emotional roller coaster: 6 powder droppers in < 3 years!

secondofangle2 · Tuesday at 10:32 PM

Waited on ATV4, sold 2 RCBS chargemasters in 2022

Got ATV4 Spring 2022. Wait! I need a shim? It sits precariously atop the stock scale cover which was not made for weight atop it? the motors bind up over 90 degrees? F-this I'm selling and it (at a small loss) and getting this awesome supertrickler that's coming out!

SuperSpiller comes out. I become a beta-tester with a guy named AH. We test HUNDREDS of software iterations. There is no software fix for that stupid vibratory tube and its temperature sensitivity. I sell it, in anticipation of the Ingenuity Precision in FALL 2023.

The IP is delayed for YEARS! AH sells me an ATV2 (with V3 software) to get me by, 6 months AFTER the advertised IP release (summer 2024). What a primitive POS! I struggle along, awaiting the IP. I polish the trickler tube, I change the belts, I superglue loose parts....But it's never quite right, and the IP never comes....It's now early March, 2024....

So I buy ANOTHER V4, which I received today. Easy to set up. good instructions. Still sits atop like a house of cards. But an elegant machine with great software, and easy peasy bluetooth, and an intuitive App!

After all this frustration for almost 3 years, it is like ECSTASY dumping charges. It just WORKS! l'm in HEAVEN!!! (I fed it AR-COMP, easy test, no fat stick powders like H50BMG, RL50, or n570, to kill this buzz!)

But now I've dumped 100 charges, and I have to empty this fucking thing. Wait, what? OK, take off the hopper. Now what? unplug the fucking wire? WHAT? Shake it like a shank-n-bake chicken? What about these windows? These stupid fucking "windows" on the front and the rear? Oh my fuck, now there is powder all over every-fucking-where and I remember why I sold this POS almost 3 years ago!

But, TBH, this is the one I will keep. Maybe even after IP full system comes out...get another scale, run two of them for different powder morphologies....?

918v · Tuesday at 10:42 PM

I throw a charge and trickle up. Easy peasy. Ditch the bullshit tricklers. Sleep easy at night.

kthomas · Tuesday at 10:45 PM

Should've just went straight to a Prometheus from the get go

spife7980 · Tuesday at 10:56 PM

My v2 auto throw works just fine, ball powders aside, but that’s due to the lee hopper. The v3 fixed that but was never in stock.
Since then it seems like they are all snake oil.

6.5SH · Tuesday at 11:12 PM

secondofangle2 · Tuesday at 11:15 PM

after I play the "emotional damage" video, screwtube suggests some more videos for me to watch, and there's a scantily clad woman diving in the ocean, and I click that and all my troubles are washed away

for a minute.

now I'm frustrated again. In a different way. I'll probably get the IP system before I get her.

Pass the lube

Rich04 · Tuesday at 11:19 PM

I waited for a V4 to upgrade from a chargemaster, never had a problem emptying it, I actually love the little windows, they make it real easy, after the chargemaster it’s a dream.

secondofangle2 · Tuesday at 11:23 PM

that's why I'm inclined to keep it this time around.....

Southpaw357 · 2025-04-02T00:32:39-0400

This is one of several reasons I shoot factory ammo…

widefat77 · 2025-04-02T06:26:41-0400

So, what +/- variances are you satisfied with on the V4?

ShtrRdy · 2025-04-02T09:09:53-0400

Thanks for "breaking trail" on this appliance.

secondofangle2 · 2025-04-02T09:47:33-0400

Ronin22 · 2025-04-02T10:05:09-0400

So, a friend of mine got a ATV4 and sent me vids of it dispensing in seconds and only off .03gr or some crazy shit. My dreams are now shattered wanting to upgrade from my 1500 Chargemaster!

XP1K · 2025-04-02T10:17:30-0400

This surprised me. As for myself, I still use an ancient redding beam scale and a trickler. Recently built myself a knockoff dandy vibratory trickler. Life changing.

secondofangle2 · 2025-04-02T10:47:41-0400

Nothing personal but….

What a complete bullshit premise to this video: imma use an AMP/mate, A419 Zero press, CPS and then skimp on the fucking dispenser? Ain’t nobody gonna ever do that.

Plus 550 yards is not where your SD is going to show, even w a 308

But TBH, I didn’t have the patience to watch the whole thing

Seems like a shill for RCBS or rationalization material for those who refuse to get an A&D scale

ETA: I watched most of the rest at 2x; he DID get the RCBS scale for free. And the A&D scale had lower SD. And his test doesn't prove diddley - too small of sample size, too many variables responsible for the group sizes he's comparing. And we have no way of knowing he didn't edit stuff out selectively (esp since he got the RCBS for free).

I'm NOT saying the A&D scale precision is not desirable; I'm only saying that I want a trickler that is not a PITA to use

XP1K · 2025-04-02T11:11:56-0400

secondofangle2 said:
Nothing personal but….

What a complete bullshit premise to this video: imma use an AMP/mate, A419 Zero press, CPS and then skimp on the fucking dispenser? Ain’t nobody gonna ever do that.

Plus 550 yards is not where your SD is going to show, even w a 308

But TBH, I didn’t have the patience to watch the whole thing

Seems like a shill for RCBS or rationalization material for those who refuse to get an A&D scale

ETA: I watched most of the rest at 2x; he DID get the RCBS scale for free. And the A&D scale had lower SD. And his test doesn't prove diddley - too small of sample size, too many variables responsible for the group sizes he's comparing. And we have no way of knowing he didn't edit stuff out selectively (esp since he got the RCBS for free).

I'm NOT saying the A&D scale precision is not desirable; I'm only saying that I want a trickler that is not a PITA to use

I dont disagree with you. It seems like RCBS is peddling a lot of their stuff to "influencers" lately.

I did watch another video of his though where he was using two chargemasters to load his prs ammo now. He claimed it was faster and there wasn't enough difference in sd to warrant waiting on the super trickler.

I watched a speedy Gonzalez video a while back where he was touring the loading area at a br match. I was surprised at how many chargemasters were in use with that crowd.

I'd love to have a high dollar trickler setup but the volume I load for I just can't justify it. That money for me is better spent on components.

secondofangle2 · 2025-04-02T11:18:18-0400

Yeah for BR, 0.04 gr ain’t gonna matter so why bother?

diggler1833 · 2025-04-02T11:43:16-0400

XP1K said:
This surprised me. As for myself, I still use an ancient redding beam scale and a trickler. Recently built myself a knockoff dandy vibratory trickler. Life changing.

I'd like to see him repeat that test with a 10 round group at twice the distance of 550 yards (with a .308). Heck, just 1K yards would be fine.

A whopping 50 FPS ES at 550 is only worth about 3 inches of vertical at that distance (.308, 168 hybrids at 2700-2750). Do it at 1K and it becomes about 16 inches. Big damn difference.

*****

As for me, I'm still dragging me feet and manually throwing directly to a mid-tier beam scale. I am 100% positive it takes me significantly more time than the expensive setups. However, my headaches are non-existent, and my results are pretty awesome... so my need to change hasn't occurred just yet.

XP1K · 2025-04-02T11:46:51-0400

diggler1833 said:
I'd like to see him repeat that test with a 10 round group at twice the distance of 550 yards (with a .308). Heck, just 1K yards would be fine.

A whopping 50 FPS ES at 550 is only worth about 3 inches of vertical at that distance (.308, 168 hybrids at 2700-2750). Do it at 1K and it becomes about 16 inches. Big damn difference.

He had an es of 50 ? I guess I missed that part. That's no Bueno. If I get into the twenties, for my application I'm okay, but any more than that and I start exploring other avenues.

secondofangle2 · 2025-04-02T11:52:07-0400

his RCBS SD was 7.2ish and ST/A&D SD was 5.2ish

Taking only that data, I'd go with an A&D setup

about 8 years ago, I posted a thread about how much of what we do reloading is unnecessary, and I started loading my 223 (maybe even 308) ammo just using bulk drops from an RCBS unithrow - not measuring individual charges.

At 100 yards on paper that was fine; over a chrono or past 500 yards it was a disaster, so I went back to the chargemaster and bought a second one to speed up the process. I had been unwilling to pony up the dough for the A&D at that time. I will never go back though

diggler1833 · 2025-04-02T11:53:58-0400

XP1K said:
He had an es of 50 ? I guess I missed that part. That's no Bueno. If I get into the twenties, for my application I'm okay, but any more than that and I start exploring other avenues.

No. I was just highlighting how far one could be off on their charge weights and still have the potential for sub-MOA vertical dispersion.

Schw15 · 2025-04-02T12:36:16-0400

secondofangle2 said:
Waited on ATV4, sold 2 RCBS chargemasters in 2022

Got ATV4 Spring 2022. Wait! I need a shim? It sits precariously atop the stock scale cover which was not made for weight atop it? the motors bind up over 90 degrees? F-this I'm selling and it (at a small loss) and getting this awesome supertrickler that's coming out!

SuperSpiller comes out. I become a beta-tester with a guy named AH. We test HUNDREDS of software iterations. There is no software fix for that stupid vibratory tube and its temperature sensitivity. I sell it, in anticipation of the Ingenuity Precision in FALL 2023.

The IP is delayed for YEARS! AH sells me an ATV2 (with V3 software) to get me by, 6 months AFTER the advertised IP release (summer 2024). What a primitive POS! I struggle along, awaiting the IP. I polish the trickler tube, I change the belts, I superglue loose parts....But it's never quite right, and the IP never comes....It's now early March, 2024....

So I buy ANOTHER V4, which I received today. Easy to set up. good instructions. Still sits atop like a house of cards. But an elegant machine with great software, and easy peasy bluetooth, and an intuitive App!

After all this frustration for almost 3 years, it is like ECSTASY dumping charges. It just WORKS! l'm in HEAVEN!!! (I fed it AR-COMP, easy test, no fat stick powders like H50BMG, RL50, or n570, to kill this buzz!)

But now I've dumped 100 charges, and I have to empty this fucking thing. Wait, what? OK, take off the hopper. Now what? unplug the fucking wire? WHAT? Shake it like a shank-n-bake chicken? What about these windows? These stupid fucking "windows" on the front and the rear? Oh my fuck, now there is powder all over every-fucking-where and I remember why I sold this POS almost 3 years ago!

But, TBH, this is the one I will keep. Maybe even after IP full system comes out...get another scale, run two of them for different powder morphologies....?

I have a v4 and love it. I use the shims and the plastic tip. I throw 87 grains of n568 in 12 to 15 seconds with very few over throws. The powder is big so I keep it within 86.98 to 87.04 and it's good. My sd and es are low. When getting the powder out I just take off the powder hoppet put it in the back open the window. Then turn the machine on the big tube for a bit then the little tube. Empty the cup and put the hopper in the back window again and tilt the machine back and it comes out empty and easy.

secondofangle2 · 2025-04-02T15:43:19-0400

I used the suggestion above, remove the hopper and emptied that. Then I have a 1 pound powder container with the top cut off of it that I use as a repository, and I stuck that underneath the rear window and pulled it up, and that caught everything from in there, then I close the window did a demand spin of the small and the large tubes on the app for about a minute and mostly emptied them, and then I told them backwards, emptying the rest into the rear window reservoir again and opened it and that pretty much cleaned it out

Not easy, Peezy, but really doable and without much mess

Having been through all of the machines I have over three years, I think this is currently the best machine in production all things considered

Note, that the V3 with IP is no longer technically in production

I think I might get a second A& D scale and leave this thing set up for 223 and 308, and dedicate the IP to the larger caliber, but I don’t know.

I also share my reloading space with a couple of buddies and maybe I could talk one of them into splitting the cost with me

John Glidewell · 2025-04-02T16:01:49-0400

Schw15 said:
I have a v4 and love it. I use the shims and the plastic tip. I throw 87 grains of n568 in 12 to 15 seconds with very few over throws. The powder is big so I keep it within 86.98 to 87.04 and it's good. My sd and es are low. When getting the powder out I just take off the powder hoppet put it in the back open the window. Then turn the machine on the big tube for a bit then the little tube. Empty the cup and put the hopper in the back window again and tilt the machine back and it comes out empty and easy.

After pulling powder hopper and dumping powder from back, just lift the V4 and dump the tubes. I dump right into the hopper no spills.

secondofangle2 · 2025-04-02T16:09:31-0400

I'm trying to avoid disconnecting the wires. I'll figure it out. Thanks for the suggestions! This ATV4 is better than I gave it credit for the first time around. And I know MKM Tyler, he will hook me up.

secondofangle2 · 2025-04-02T16:12:43-0400

Also, the ATV2.5 is fine for small charges under 50 grains or so. But I load 375CT and 50 BMG - it has to do 2-3 throws for 135 and 236 grain charges, and with the lumber logs, it gets all bound up and I have to waste a bunch of charges that are 20+ grains under. Too long to trickle up, so I have to dump them.

I have come to agree with the ATV3 + IPT guys - that's currently the best setup if you can cobble it together...

John Glidewell · 2025-04-02T16:23:27-0400

secondofangle2 said:
I'm trying to avoid disconnecting the wires. I'll figure it out. Thanks for the suggestions! This ATV4 is better than I gave it credit for the first time around. And I know MKM Tyler, he will hook me up.

You don't have to disconnect wires. Mine are plenty long enough to dump without disconnecting.

John Glidewell · 2025-04-02T16:37:40-0400

secondofangle2 said:
And I know MKM Tyler, he will hook me up.

I have been working with MKM for a bit on upgrades for the V4. We are very close to a finished product. Latest tubes / overserts are coming for testing and we have a few beta testers. I think folks will like the new tubes / oversert we developed. Larger diameter and course threads with custom pitches which helps get kernels to single file out the tube and almost completely eliminates overthrows. Only overthrows I see now are when different / miss sized kernels fall at end or kernels are stuck together. Nothing I can do about that. It will run a little faster too. My current average with N555 type powders is 8 seconds a throw.

Schw15 · 2025-04-02T16:38:55-0400

I never unhook the wires to empty it out. Honestly it's one of the best systems out there I know getting the shims is a pain for some but it's really not that big of deal.

Vivacious Stallion · 2025-04-02T17:07:24-0400

John Glidewell said:
After pulling powder hopper and dumping powder from back, just lift the V4 and dump the tubes. I dump right into the hopper no spills.

That's all good until you're loading for a match at 2am and forget to turn the hopper to the close off position and then dump the back windowed portion of powder onto your table

Vivacious Stallion · 2025-04-02T17:08:13-0400

John Glidewell said:
I have been working with MKM for a bit on upgrades for the V4. We are very close to a finished product. Latest tubes / overserts are coming for testing and we have a few beta testers. I think folks will like the new tubes / oversert we developed. Larger diameter and course threads with custom pitches which helps get kernels to single file out the tube and almost completely eliminates overthrows. Only overthrows I see now are when different / miss sized kernels fall at end or kernels are stuck together. Nothing I can do about that. It will run a little faster too. My current average with N555 type powders is 8 seconds a throw.

Any kind of timeline for release?

John Glidewell · 2025-04-02T17:21:26-0400

Vivacious Stallion said:
Any kind of timeline for release?

Not yet. Shot Show and shoulder surgery kinda put a damper on this project. This next iteration for testing is on the printer as I understand. It will take a few weeks to thoroughly test these. If I had to guess, probably a few months. But it depends on a few things. One big one is if we need to make anymore adjustments to the oversert. I think we have gone through 5 or 6 iterations now with a few thread cuts being done by hand. They want it right before it goes on the site and we were not sure my ideas would work before we started down this rabbit hole. I do think we are close though. The last iteration was very close but needed a few tweaks.

4O6shootist · 2025-04-02T17:48:13-0400

My v3.with ingenuity trickler drops charges within 0.02gr of set in 7-8 seconds from me setting the cup down. Allows me to load 5-6 rounds a minute.

Rich04 · 2025-04-02T19:19:00-0400

Post 30, I think we’ve all been there, not a machine problem though, just my stupid memory

davethedog · 2025-04-02T19:54:05-0400

I’ve never tried to reload in an earthquake in which case I don’t think the v4 would be great. In all other circumstances though mine sits up there just fine. The most annoying part of emptying it is disconnecting.

From time to time you just gotta work with the machine instead of improving your mouse trap.

Emotional roller coaster: 6 powder droppers in < 3 years!

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