Is the March FX 4.5-28x52 my new ZCO?

If lifetime warranty and excellent customer service are your main criteria, than everybody should only use Vortex products and not look at anything else.

I think we can safely assume that is not what you meant. We can have a discussion on whether it is a polite thing to crap on the brand you do not carry. Longer turnaround time is definitely a weakness for March. Long term customer support is not. They pretty much flat out said that everything will be supported. Perhaps it is an unspoken rule, but I do not see people in the industry talking about their competing brands a whole lot. For example, I do not think I have ever seen Jeff or Nick from ZCO say disparaging things about their competition. They say good things (justifiably so) about their own products, but do not disparage other brands.

Either way, both ZCO and March make very nice scopes, but emphasize different attributes. Depending on what you need, March may work better or ZCO may work better. It really comes down to what matters most to you.

As much as I like March scopes, I do not only shoot with March. If anything, I use Tangents more than other scopes I have and there are quite a few other scopes here. I do have a couple of Marches, a Leupold or two, several Vortex scopes, etc.

They are all chosen for specific guns for a specific reason that makes me think they are the best fit. Not once did I consider service turn around time as a criteria for selecting the right scope for the right application.

ILya


I'm not crapping on March at all, we are just having a discussion about the pros and cons of the scopes being discussed.
I've heard great things about March for benchrest and F-Class type shooting. I've even sent customer's towards their direction which is 0 benefit to me.

When I discuss optics and precision products with people, I try and see what is best for the individual. And as I have gotten in trouble with the boss for referring people to products we do not carry or explain that they already have the best option in their possession. There really is no one best at everything for everybody, and I just provide the best information I have to help customers make the best decision. I try and look at the whole picture which is not always discussed publicly to provide the best information.

So I'm not shitting on March as they try to push the envelope which is a good thing.

I hope that clears things up and I'd be happy to discuss it further at 916-628-3490.

-Richard
 
I think part of the problem is that the hoi poi have gotten spoiled by folks that produce cheaper items, sell them at a very large markup and throw in, hey if you break it for any reason or whatever fine, we'll take care of it and just pass the cost on to everyone else since we have enough margins and volume to socialize the costs for folks breaking their stuff or rough handling it, oh and hey it will always be "free" (folks don't understand there is no such thing as a free lunch).

Originally, especially in the European and Japanese type laws, the buyer was also expected to be a responsible party and treat the item with reasonable care and not damage it or let it get damaged. "Warranty" was specifically to cover if there was actually a real manufacturing defect in the item that caused it to break or stop functioning as expected during normal use and a reasonable (but fixed length) time frame since everything ever made pretty much eventually can be made to wear out and break under usage.

For example, in my S&B scopes:

The issue with lubrication coming out of place and causing a spot on the lens = manufacturing defect that I expected to be covered under "warranty"
When I had a scope that had been used and abused for 5 years and run through a lot of sand and such and had the turrents banged around and such and was getting a bit gritty, well that was user caused degradation and I was happy to pay a reasonable price for them to take it apart and rebuild it and make it look and work like new.

But apparently "consumers" in the USA are becoming a bit of an entitled lots that think they deserve endless hand holding and nothing to ever be their fault.

There are companies that can easily cater to that because they make much bigger margins and pad the costs across a wider group of people.
There are companies that make higher end, more niche stuff where they don't have such huge margins and can't democratize the costs of stupidity across a wide group of people quite so easily.

I'm going to come at it from some other angles, not that you aren't correct for much of it, however I'm not sure I agree totally.

I venture to think there is still plenty of profit margin in expensive scopes from smaller co's but they aren't selling near as many scopes as the high volume co's. If the market demand is there for their product they are still making a ton of money. If they are putting out compromised optics well that's on them meaning less profit in sales, repair, and replacement.

Nor are the high end scope co's replacing or fixing as many scopes. Remember the parts and repair are at their cost which isn't expensive for them to do, and their scopes were designed to be repaired rather than being replaced only as a last resort and an extremely rare occurrence.

All that being said we still see these expensive scopes having problems and needing to be sent back sometimes, and supposedly not as frequently as the high volume co's.

For example I had to send a S&B 3-20 back twice and one of my S&B 5-25's side focus knob become too easy to turn necessitating a refocus after 2-3 shots so it needed to be sent back as well. However the warranty repair was free.

I only sent one Athlon back not because anything failed in it but because the prescription didn't jive with my eyes and they sent me a different model scope in the same product line at my request because I complained that a replacement of the original scope wouldn't work for me.
I've had twenty or more of this Co's scopes and I don't think this Co could stay in business for more than the reason that they'd have to replace most of the scopes they sold even though there is greater margin spread out over a lot of scope sales volume. I mean these couldn't be made that poorly, right, in other words that business model isn't sustainable for eventual replacement of every scope they ever sold?!
Aside from that a friend did have a less expensive G1 Argos wack out, and the Co sent him a brand new G2 version, which is a benefit as far as staying current with technology.

Which way would I prefer?? Not having to ever send a scope back, which isn't reality, and from that stand point I'd rather pay less money instead of paying 2-3-4 times the price for the diminishing returns a expensive scope offers, as nice as they are.

Now if money was no object, yeah sure, I'll take a high end scope on every rifle, which isn't reality either, even if one goes down once in a while.

They are all made by humans that make mistakes and a lifetime warranty being the most optimal IMHO, and rather to be had then a otherwise good warranty that runs out or has questionable conditions in damage or negligence.

I've had 5 March scopes, none broke (although there might have been questions concerning optical weirdness), and I'm glad they didn't go down because it'd piss me off to send one back to Japan, and until they have a USA repair center I'm tapping out. What happens if it gets lost going over seas, and how much is insurance gonna cost, will the insurance co come through with 100% funds, or if it gets damaged, or, or, or.
And I want any scope to be back within a few weeks at most.

Granted the few ZCO's I got behind were 1st Gens but I wasn't overly impressed, especially so with the lackluster turrets, so I got turned off right away. In fact my friend had to send his back a few weeks after getting it.
I haven't been behind the recent examples so.....
 
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Right, let’s get the thread back to focusing on the ZCO advantage lol.

Just giving you some shit!

I think if @TrevK would have confined his buying policy to just scopes and suppressors and not have brought in his vehicle, nobody would’ve blinked an eye.
I literally said when it comes to scopes and suppressors. I didn’t bring up vehicles(Denys did) and I don’t care what anyone else does with their money. I’ll spend my money how I want and if they don’t offer a warranty then I won’t buy it. Feel free to buy one and let me know how great it is.. I’d be pumped for you.
 
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I took it differently, to me it seemed like a deflection to steer the discussion off topic IMO.

Over $3k there are manufacturer's that provide lifetime warranty that doesn't need to be shipped overseas and provides excellent customer service.

-Richard
It definitely was not meant to deflect or steer the discussion off topic. It was exactly as CB stated.

I well understand people have some trepidation with having to send an expensive scope back to Japan. I have been shooting with March scopes for about 14 years now, various models, but mainly F-class with a 5-50X56, then a 10-60X56 HM and now with my beloved Majesta. I have others on different rifles, a 1.15-15X42 and a 4.5-28X52 HM, all excellent scopes. I have only ever sent one back to Japan and that was because I used it for so long that my eyes changed, and I could no longer see the thin MTR-2 reticle in my 5-50X56. It came back within about 4 weeks with an MTR-5 reticle, and I was back in business. When I got my 10-60X56 HM, I made sure it had the MTR-5 reticle. And when the Majesta arrived, it was sporting the MTR-WFD reticle, of course.

As an addendum, when the 5-50X56 came back with its new reticle, DEON has taken the opportunity to clean and test it fully and they said they fixed the focus at extreme range, something I had not had an issue with. I forget the exact words, but it was in a letter that accompanied the scope when it came back. The scope itself looked pristine. I do take good care of my optics, but they just cleaned it up more. And recharged it with argon gas.

Yes, scopes are built by people, and people can and do make mistakes. This is why DEON as such extensive QC throughout the process and extensive QA before shipping. If one does need to go back, they will fix it and tell you what they did to it.
 
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We have had some premium brands at a premium price with atrocious warranties and customer service. Unfortunately, we end up getting stuck in the middle of trying to assist the customer to their satisfaction (That's what she said) and not pissing off our vendor. Depending on the situation we need to assess on the best solution, and at times it could rub either or both sides the wrong way.

It's happened to many times IMO and we take the blunt of it. So some of these companies we are no longer affiliated with whether it's a consistent QC issue, CS issue or long wait times for resolutions. Unfortunately, with lawyers looking for reasons to spend a clients retainer we would never post it online or in writing regardless of having receipts to verify our claims.

You can make the best product in the world, but if you lack in areas like warranty, QC, CS, repair times etc...
I take that into account with trying to find the best product for each individual, whether we carry it or not.
Would I like to sit down with March next time I'm at SHOT and not trying to accomplish everything I needed in just one day? Absolutely! BTW thanks again to @koshkin and @Covertnoob5 for your guidance at my first time at Shot Show in 2024.

There are plenty of brands we do not carry that I have and would psrsonally recommend that we do not carry.
I do not own the company so we can't carry every brand that I'd even like to stock.

-Richard
 
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I literally said when it comes to scopes and suppressors. I didn’t bring up vehicles(Denys did) and I don’t care what anyone else does with their money.
Well, here’s what you said:
I trade them in or sell them private party before the warranty expires.. so did you have a point?
In that quote above, you seemed to be either confused or sarcastic and quite lifetime warranty sensitive across the board (which is ok).

And so in case you were confused (perhaps you weren’t) I explained what point @Denys was making.

Perhaps I read you wrong and your warranty sensitivity is far less wide-ranging that I surmised.

Spend your money how you like, I just like some logical consistency. Not trying to start a fight.
 
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This talk about sidetracking…is confusing.

If having a rather gentle conversation about one’s positions about warranties is sidetracking, then it started in post #4, followed up by post #10?

Ah well.


The sidetracking was comparing car warranties that do not have a comparable lifetime warranty to what is offered by some riflescope manufacturers.
 
Funny thing about SH threads, they can be rife with smatterings of logic, experience, scientific method, product zealotry, agendas, gate keeping, illogical thinking, trash talking, self owns, then back to socratic discussion. It's all very entertaining.

Am I more apt to listen to optical physicists and avid shooters who have deep histories here on the Hide, yes probably so. Am I going to use what works for me no matter the brand, yes, for sure.
 
The sidetracking was comparing car warranties that do not have a comparable lifetime warranty to what is offered by some riflescope manufacturers.
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Funny thing about SH threads, they can be rife with smatterings of logic, experience, scientific method, product zealotry, agendas, gate keeping, illogical thinking, trash talking, self owns, then back to socratic discussion. It's all very entertaining.

Am I more apt to listen to optical physicists and avid shooters who have deep histories here on the Hide, yes probably so. Am I going to use what works for me no matter the brand, yes, for sure.
1743629023969.gif

sakoman rn…
 
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I would put ZCO and Tangent up there with vortex. I have used all 3 warranty departments and they have all been exceptional, fast, and free shipping both ways. Vortex is the standard when it comes to CS but so far nothing I have seen from Armament (TT) and ZCO is different. You really can't go wrong with either 3 if warranty work is your concern.
 
The march glass is fantastic, but not quite ZCO level, IMHO. Controls also aren't quite ZCO level, either.

FOV is significantly better than the ZCO, same for size and weight. all depends what you want.

The new Kahles 328 and 540 are really the bridge between the March style scopes and ZCO. You get the ZCO level resolution and controls, with March style FOV.

Reticles are all in the eye of the beholder...
This.
 
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