Mk 13 Mod 0 stock

pmclaine · Mar 31, 2017

Posted this in bolt too so I apologize for the double post but it might appeal to the historically minded too.

Noticed a neat sale on Ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Navy-SEAL-us...YAAOSwSlBY3TlJ

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Ive seen the McMillan return stocks from the M40s but didnt realize that the big gun parts made it into our world. Nice to build a tribute or clone that has some legit history.

Not my sale, I stick to affordable calibers, but it seemed like an item people on here would find use for if they knew about it.

sirhrmechanic · Mar 31, 2017

Damn... that is tempting. Not that I need another project. But done right, that would be a really cool rifle!

Cheers,

Sirhr

pmclaine · Mar 31, 2017

Looks like the seller has a second one that looks a little bit more been there done that....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Navy-SEAL-us...gAAOSwol5Y3UdP

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Im not finding anything to buy so i might as well help somebody else spend their money.

pmclaine · Mar 31, 2017

Sirhr, It will go nice with your USMC M45A1. You will be ready for the Raiders just as soon as you pass PI and a little indoc.

sirhrmechanic · Apr 2, 2017

Nah, I never had the right stuff to be a Marine... and could not have been a SEAL because no publisher wanted anything to do with me and BUD/S seemed like a lot of work. Plus I can't swim. At least that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Just have to settle for a career in marketing (or somesuch), and a stint as Barney Fife!

Cheers,

Sirhr

USMCSGT0331 · Apr 2, 2017

Phil, thanks for starting up this thread! I'm the ebay seller for these stocks, so if anyone has questions about them, post it here or shoot me a PM.

These are the real deal and Kelly McMillan has authenticated them. I'm keeping a few for my own collection and will be listing 2 more this week. These are perfect for a clone built, I'm going to be sending a box of parts to Alan Brown in the near future. Alan was one of the gunsmiths at Crane who built these Mod 0 rifles for the SEALs, so he's the perfect smith for a clone build! He used to be with High Caliber Sales, but now works by himself; his website is ajbrownarms.net.

This is one that I'm keeping for myself, it's an early contract grey stock that a SEAL sniper painted green (kinda bright in the pic, a little darker in person).

The cool thing about this stock is it has a repair tag from 1994!

Need to decide if I want to keep these or sell them!

Really cool dope chart on one of the stocks

Original bolt

Here's a pic showing the certificate's watermark, crossed Mk13 Mod 0 rifles!

sirhrmechanic · Apr 3, 2017

So you interested in doing a buy it now for a long-time 'Hide member?

Hint hint...

PM Me...

Cheers,

Sirhr

sirhrmechanic · Apr 4, 2017

Well, PM.... since I'm just waiting to see which Mk13 stock I am buying... wanted to thank you for spending my money for me. Sheesh....

But I am really interested in this build! Had a great call with 0331 earlier and he is picking out a 'kit' for me.

Gonna be fun! Any input folks have on some 'smiths to do some of the action work and the extractor conversion, etc... let me know. I can do a lot here in the Schloss Nitrocellulose workshops, but I thin I'd like to have some of the original Crane guys help me with this.

Cheers,

Sirhr

USMCSGT0331 · Apr 4, 2017

Sirhrmechanic, great talking to you as well and I'll get you some stock pics asap! Just listed another 2 on ebay, 1 near new and 1 painted. The painted one is really unique! Also, just realized I've got the cheekpiece screw on the wrong side of the damn stock, lol

grunt0311 · Apr 5, 2017

USMC 0331 said:
Sirhrmechanic, great talking to you as well and I'll get you some stock pics asap! Just listed another 2 on ebay, 1 near new and 1 painted. The painted one is really unique! Also, just realized I've got the cheekpiece screw on the wrong side of the damn stock, lol

This one looks interesting. Someone sure chopped up the cheek piece. The buttpad looks weird and it almost really doesn't fit. And last if you look closely it looks like the stock looks gray underneath the paint. Am I correct on this 0331?

sirhrmechanic · Apr 5, 2017

Well, since neither of us want to enrich eBay.... pick me out a stock/kit and PM me a price and I'll buy it. From our conversation, I know you will do right by me and, at a broader level, us 'Hide members.
So price me out me something I can't live without, as I am sitting here just a-dyin' to send you money for one of your stock/build kits. So I can build a Mk13 Mod 0 rifle.

Cheers,

Sirhr

USMCSGT0331 · Apr 6, 2017

grunt0311 said:
This one looks interesting. Someone sure chopped up the cheek piece. The buttpad looks weird and it almost really doesn't fit. And last if you look closely it looks like the stock looks gray underneath the paint. Am I correct on this 0331?

It appears that the SEAL sniper modified the cheekpiece, it sure as hell didn't leave NSWC Crane like that! The buttpad is an over-sized Kick-EEZ pad that was also installed by the SEAL sniper. And you are correct, under the paint is a grey fiberglass stock. The earlier contract stocks were grey, whereas the later ones were tan. All of this info has been verified by Alan Brown and Kelly McMillan. This stock is extremely unique with the modifications the original sniper made, I've never seen another like it. I've seen a few with the Kick-EEZ pad, but not the cheekpiece mod. There's a piece of foam under the cheekpiece that holds it at the proper height. I took the cheekpiece off to check it out and put the damn screw on the wrong side! Didn't notice until after I took the pics and listed the stock.

sirhrmechanic said:
Well, since neither of us want to enrich eBay.... pick me out a stock/kit and PM me a price and I'll buy it. From our conversation, I know you will do right by me and, at a broader level, us 'Hide members.
So price me out me something I can't live without, as I am sitting here just a-dyin' to send you money for one of your stock/build kits. So I can build a Mk13 Mod 0 rifle.

Cheers,

Sirhr

I've got a few set aside for you to look at, I'm sure at least one of them is perfect for your collection! Will get you pics this weekend when I've got some time.

Tflhnd1 · Apr 6, 2017

PM sent sir!

pmclaine · Apr 6, 2017

sirhrmechanic said:
Well, PM.... since I'm just waiting to see which Mk13 stock I am buying... wanted to thank you for spending my money for me. Sheesh....

But I am really interested in this build! Had a great call with 0331 earlier and he is picking out a 'kit' for me.

Gonna be fun! Any input folks have on some 'smiths to do some of the action work and the extractor conversion, etc... let me know. I can do a lot here in the Schloss Nitrocellulose workshops, but I thin I'd like to have some of the original Crane guys help me with this.

Cheers,

Sirhr

This will go well with your heavy artillery collection.

Least I could do with the $2K hole you and Ryan put me in on Monday.

Poverty has never been so enjoyed - broke but well armed.

sirhrmechanic · Apr 11, 2017

Just nailed a nice C-prefix M700 in .300 Weatherby Mag on Gunbroker.... which will give me the perfect donor action! Great price! After I sell off the stock and 'parts' it will be a steal.

And I have a stock inbound from 0331 (thanks for the great conversation today!). This is going to be a great build!

Thanks everyone for the help, direction and advice!

Cheers,

Sirhr

FatBoy · Apr 13, 2017

sirhrmechanic said:
Just nailed a nice C-prefix M700 in .300 Weatherby Mag on Gunbroker.... which will give me the perfect donor action! Great price! After I sell off the stock and 'parts' it will be a steal.

And I have a stock inbound from 0331 (thanks for the great conversation today!). This is going to be a great build!

Thanks everyone for the help, direction and advice!

Cheers,

Sirhr

Sirhr,

Care to discuss your path for this build? Are you going to try to source an original L shaped lug, make one or get one of the Badger units? Lilja barrel in tactical taper with A191 chamber or? Also, do you plan on engraving the bolt and hard parts with the anchors, etc or leaving them as is? I am really looking forward to your build, and seeing which direction you go with it.

Chris

sirhrmechanic · Apr 13, 2017

Howdy FB....

I am still debating the path. I have a repro lug coming... and I can get a Badger unit. But the repro will probably be good. I am definitely getting the Lilja barrel. And will have the action trued and worked over. I may also get the engraving done, but I want to make sure that it's done in such a way that noone can ever pass this rifle off as anything but a replica.

I am also debating the scope options. I know it was a nightforce on some of them. But I am a US Optics snob. And I also know that the community could use a lot of different optics. Including USO. So I am likely to go that route, passing up the 'standard' scope. USO is back to taking custom orders again, so I may just have to have them build me something 'period.'

Thanks for the encouragement. This is the first time I've done a 'modern' restoration. So it will be fun. And I will be glad to keep everyone informed!

Cheers,

Sirhr

sirhrmechanic · Apr 13, 2017

Oh and not sure if I will go with a barrel set up for a suppressor. I'd like to. But not sure how many of the Mod 0's were set up for suppressed firing. That said, if any rifle deserves a can, this is it. So still looking into that.

Cheers,

Sirhr

IanHusaberg · Apr 14, 2017

I'm glad I can contribute something to the vintage section. Enjoy the reloading bits and pieces SirhrMechanic!

I would like to see the finished product when your done. Please post a photo?

I'm glad the reloading equipment went to a good home!

sirhrmechanic · Apr 14, 2017

There is a great thread over on Scout about a build done by 20xClean. I'll try and move some of it over. But he had a great post on the details of the build:

Under your post is what Marty posted earlier in this thread. Bottom metal for my buddies early unit was stock Remington or williams, he couldn't tell. His was threaded for a suppressor, not the mk11 unit. Not sure about the crown, he thinks it was just flat.

Oddly enough he said his action was a Model 7. He figures that's why they had to go with a Sako extractor. Looks like it started life as a standard bolt face that was opened up. Said that extractor caused ejection issues with the rail so they hacked the center section of the rail out, literally.

It appears Crane turned out some unusual pieces. Not all were to a set standard.

---------------------------------------------
--- USMC1911 wrote:

Does anyone know what the crown looked like?
What was the diameter of the barrel was at the end of it?
What kind of finish was used on the rifle?
What bottom metal was used?

---------------------------------------------he M700/300 was the first variation of the series of rifles that became the Mk 13's. The 700/300's were first adopted by the SEALs

-Rem 700 LA, 300 WM, holes opened to #8-40.

-Early 700/300 were Rem factory extractors, Mk 13 Mod X were Sako style extractor from Dave Tubb.

-Lilja Precision Rifle Barrels 4 groove 416R stainless, 1 turn in 10 inches “Tactical Taper” barrel (Originally a modified version of their 1.200 HV Taper (4” shank instead of 5” resulting in 0.780” dia. at 27 inches instead of the HV 0.875 inches). Barrel is meant for 27 inch finished length (works with #7 McMillan inletting). Finished to 26.5 inches (+/- 0.5 inch).

-A191 chamber

-McM A2 stock, spacer system,saddle c/p, Tan. Machined for Special Crane lug w/ extra escutcheon for 3rd action screw.

-First version M700/300 used same base as M24 or 2 piece Leupold Mk 4 bases. Mk 13 Mod 1 and 2 used McCann MIRS rail till replaced with the MARS rail then the Badger IMUNS.

-Scope, First version Leupold Mk 4 M1 16X Mil dot reticle, 1/4 MOA turrets w/ Leupold Mk 4 Standard rings.
-2nd version scope NF 5.5-22 x 56 with Badger Ordnance high rings

-In house manufactured recoil lug, "L" shaped, that is threaded for a third action screw

- Bipod, Harris HBLM

-Sling, M1907 1005-00-714-1245 or Turner sling NMSRS-54

Some good stuff on this thread from Scout.

Cheers,

Sirhr

sirhrmechanic · Apr 18, 2017

Stock arrived yesterday, but no time to unpack it. Tonite! Can't wait to see it!

Cheers,

Sirhr

sandwarrior · Apr 19, 2017

sirhr,. So glad to see you are doing this restoration! I didn't know it at the time but I believe I saw one of these in training in the spring of '83. Whatever iteration it was back then. It had, a grayish stock, unknown scope (to me) and appeared to be a long action. It wasn't until that summer that my two friends attended the Marine Scout Sniper course in Quantico. Memories fade and blend and we wrote it off as we mistook it for a long action. This was, coincidentally, the train-up that I nearly got my ass kicked for commenting on that snipers sidearm.

sirhrmechanic · Apr 19, 2017

Stock arrived and it is amazing in person... way better than the pictures!

And thanks to IanHusaberg for a great '.300 WM' reloading starter kit. He is getting out of .300 at the same time I am getting in. Another great SH PX buy on reloading stuff!!

I am going to do a build thread... probably right here in this thread. Pictures when I get my phone handy.

Also a major shout-out to Carson Lilja. I e-mailed them Sunday about making me a barrel. On Monday, he e-mailed me back saying that they still do the exact barrel for $399. A great deal! The next morning, he and I were on the phone putting in the order officially. 12 weeks or so to delivery. Which is fantastic.

This is going to be a gorgeous rifle. I've got to decide on who to have do my action and barreling, as the action-truing and barrel fitting to a proper standard is beyond my gunsmithing skills. I think the Mod 0's had the standard extractor, but some late ones used a Sako extractor. So anyone who has any input on whether I should have this modification... is welcome.

Also, from what I gather (Badgerord did a thread on this in 2014) there was no modification to the trigger -- stock Remington. They didn't switch to a Timney or similar.

Thanks to everyone who has helped so far on this build!

Cheers,

Sirhr

FatBoy · Apr 19, 2017

I decided against the Sako based on SF operators first hand experience with the Sako units ejecting the brass into the rail or windage knob and bouncing back into the ejection port. That was with a standard Base, the McCann unit may not have this issue.

I pulled the mk13 trigger off and we put a 40x trigger on. More period correct AND the anticipation of the recoil was cut down considerably.

NukeMMC · Apr 20, 2017

While I don't remember what extractor the ones at Dam Neck in the early 90s had, I had mine built with an M16 extractor for reliability but I am pretty sure that mod wasn't around back then. I had a McCann rail and a Badger one-piece and never had an ejection issue, including running it a 77rd tactical match.

I can tell you for sure that Dobber (Crane rifle armorer) did tuning on some of the 700 triggers on the rifles he worked on at the armorer van. Personally, I sent a 40x trigger to RWS to put on the 300wm he's building me and that is what is on my R700SA 260. The previous 300wm that Alan Brown built for me had a standard R700 trigger that I tuned and it was virtually no creep and about 2.5#.

sirhrmechanic · Apr 20, 2017

You are the second person whose opinion I really value to recommend Alan Brown for the final build.

No question, that will be the route I go.

On the trigger, personally I like a heavier trigger. I am fine with a break around 4 lb. But I want it crisp and predictable. Nothing wrong with a light break for those who prefer it. But I like a heavier pull with a very clean break.

Great stuff here guys! Thanks for the link to Alan.

Cheers,

Sirhr

sirhrmechanic · Apr 21, 2017

As I start looking into handloading for the .300 Win Mag, I came across this article/slide deck from Navsea Crane c. 2009.

Looks like I'm going to try loading the 220 grain. Also saw some great results in Handloads.com.

I'll be new to reloading the .300 WM. Anyone have any thoughts on loading for the 1:10 twist 4-groove barrel? I'd ask in handloading, but figured I'll keep everything in Vintage.

Cheers,

Sirhr

FatBoy · Apr 22, 2017

Sirhr,

my rifle is 1:10 4 groove. I went Douglas simply so we could park it. Chamber is A191 and it did not like the 220s with H1000, which is what the spec for the m248 was. I was struggling to keep it at or under MOA and was not anywhere one to 2850fps.

I haven't done a ton of load testing. Tried 190 SMK'S (loves the Blackhills A191 loads), 208 Amax, 220 SMK's as well as 185 Juggernauts 215 Berger hybrids and 230 Berger OTMs. Very little testing each, as I am looking at about 1000-1200 rounds before I figure the pipe is a tomatoe stake. So, plan was to find one that shot and coukd be pushed past 1500 supersonic and stick with it.

load I settled on was Berger 230 OTMs over 73.8gr Retumbo. Win case, FL sized for .005" shoulder clearance and .003"-.004" neck tension and a Remington 9 1/2M primer. Mag loaded, which is limited by the chamber more than the mag length. This load shoots in the .4s at 100, easily holds MOA at 1k and does OK at 1250 if I do my part. That extra 250y is no joke

This load nets me 2775-2785 fps. I could probably bump it up to 2850fps to get me to a mile supersonic, but I don't have that range yet and I have 5+ firings on the Winchester brass with decent pockets and neck tension.

One thing that took me by surprise being new to 300WM was the amount of shoulder jump. The win cases are .020" short. They blow WAY forward. I assume it's because a belted mag is supposed to HS off the belt but this seems excessive to me. I set my FL die up to size all the way down to the belt (had to take .015" off the bottom of the die) and set up to co-HS off the belt and shoulder at .005" to give me a little room to bleed the pressure off. I have read (not seen personally) that setting 300wm up like a bench rest cartdridge can cause it to go over pressure fast with the big bullets. Chad with LRI had a write up on scout where he did a lot of testing with different chambers etc and the m248 ammo. He didn't list chamber specs, noreen would I expect him to. Just recall that pressure was anot issue on tight brass.

Sure you've seen this, but here is ammo spec:

detail specification cartridge, .300 winchester magnum match, mk 248 mod 1 dodic ab43, nsn 1305-01-568-7504 - US Armorment

sandwarrior · Apr 22, 2017

sirhr,

I loaded a bunch of .300 WM using once fired A191 brass. I used 210 Bergers and 208 A-max mostly. However, the 220 is historic. I would move on from trying to duplicate the A191 round. I would also move on from trying to duplicate the A191 chamber. The 190 SMK doesn't remain stable well through the transonic. The 220 SMK does. And, the A191 chamber does't work too well with the 220 SMK

When I loaded, I sized the brass down to where I just got a neck bump with a neck die. This leaves the case almost completely filling the chamber for a snug fit. I would full length size about every third load. The funny thing with the headspacing was you can headspace off both the shoulder and belt once you've fired cases in your rilfe. Since the design was intended to extend the shoulder forward on firing (.020" seems excessive, but it's common) you get case growth. You cannot load full pressure loads and have this work. You would need to full length every time and that will kill your brass. So, I went with a moderate load of 75 gr. of H1000

The rifle was an Armalite AR-30. I don't know what the throat was, but IIRC it had a fair amount of freebore. I liked to put the 210 Bergers into the lands just a bit and it seemed in doing that the bullets just barely fit in the magazine.

Anyhow, I suggest using a starting load (the minimum) on twenty or so pieces of brass and fireform them to your chamber. Then take that brass and work up a ladder. Sizing down to only a neck bump. Start the ladder @ 1/2 grain above the starting load and work up in .3 to .5 gr. increments. Doing this you will find you probably will hit a max load before you see a max load in the book. The reason was described above in that the expansion of the whole case is what alleviates pressure. This is the more accurate method of reloading .300WM. I do this process with my .308 Norma, (now that I've sold my .300WM)

Or, full length size the crap out of those cases and do a lot of inspecting just above the belt. Full length resizing of belted cases does tend to cause incipient case separation, as there is a lot of movement of brass during this process. I recommend you talk to your gunsmith and ensure he cuts you a minimum size chamber. This will mean you not having to throw brass away nearly as much.

You can use any slow powder as along as you understand what you are doing with the sizing process. You can load full length sized cases hotter, but don't use that same load in a neck size case. What happens is as the powder is ignited and starts to burn along the length of the case, the pressure increases. That increases the burn speed of that powder and thus the pressure increases more. Too much increase too fast and you get detonation. In the full length case the pressure is alleviated, and you do this. In the neck sized case it is not. it works just like a non belted case. the pressure curve goes up quickly at the end of the powder stack. This is why you work up slow and stay low. One other way to alleviate pressure is with freebore. Probably the best method of alleviating building pressures. Using the right bullets won't hurt accuracy much if at all.

-hope that helps.

sirhrmechanic · Apr 22, 2017

Thanks guys. Some great info there.

This is only the second time I've loaded belted cases (the first is for my .458 WinMag that was really loaded for 'minute of Buffalo....' so was not loaded to real precision spec's. Also not a shouldered case. So much easier to play with.

This is some great material!

Thanks for the chamber info. I was going to have the 'smith do the A191 chamber, but from what you guys are saying, I should have him do a chamber to the latest 'technology.' For commercial rounds. I think that's great advice! I'm not looking for 'historically adequate.' I'm looking for dead-nuts accurate!

Cheers,

Sirhr

FatBoy · Apr 22, 2017

I went with the A191 chamber in my mk13 mod7 BUT we throated it out so a 230 OTM was 020" off the lands at .010" under max mag length. I don't mind the body specs, but the throat needed work for heavies.

USMCSGT0331 · Apr 22, 2017

A few more SEAL used Mod 0 stocks just got listed on ebay, if anyone is interested

sirhrmechanic · Apr 22, 2017

USMCSGT0331 said:
A few more SEAL used Mod 0 stocks just got listed on ebay, if anyone is interested

Guys... you will NOT be disappointed in these. Like the M45 pistols... I predict these will not only form the basis for some amazing builds, but will be a fantastic investment.

Thanks PMClaine for turning me on to these. And to 0331 for getting me a great stock/kit.

M40 builds are all the rage. Let's put together some Mk13's and show what these .300's can do!

Cheers,

Sirhr

spooledup · Apr 22, 2017

Sirhr,

Please post some pics of your stock/kit!

pmclaine · Apr 22, 2017

.300s a "mans" caliber. I'll stick to my girly 30-06's and .308s. Something about dumping close to 80 grains of powder into a case disturbs the Scottish thriftiness in me.

They are beautiful guns though and really the history we are getting access to may make this a golden age for repro builds.

sandwarrior · Apr 23, 2017

pmclaine said:
.300s a "mans" caliber. I'll stick to my girly 30-06's and .308s. Something about dumping close to 80 grains of powder into a case disturbs the Scottish thriftiness in me.

They are beautiful guns though and really the history we are getting access to may make this a golden age for repro builds.

You can always girlify yourself by using the muzzle brake.

But, I gotta say though, pm, it's not exactly girly using a steel buttplate.

sirhrmechanic · Apr 23, 2017

Spooled...

Here is a picture. And the certificate from McMillan.

I am getting really psyched about this project.

Here is the stock, rail, bipod and the recoil lug. Rifle is still inbound.

This little gem, the certificate, is sort of a bonus. But I think is one of the reasons why these stocks (and rifles built around them) will be in the same category as the Mk45's that got snapped up so fast. 0331 has outdone himself in saving these stocks from auction/destruction and in offering them.

So on another note... the original scope for these was a Leupold Mk4 M1 16X mil dot in 1/4 MOA clicks. Anyone got one? An alternative is a suitably vintage Nightforce. Or I have some spare USO's and know that in the NavSpecWar community, you could run a USO if you wanted it. But it would be fun to put on the early 16X Leupold.

Anyone have one sitting in a box somewhere? Or... have a link to where one can be procured? I'd really like to get a 'period' scope. The Badger rings are no problem. They don't seem to have changed (why change perfection?) But scopes have changed a lot and a current Leupold is not the same as one 20 (or so) years old.

Cheers,

Sirhr

sirhrmechanic · Apr 23, 2017

P.S. Claine... thanks for the awesome goodie package! I'll take that down to the PD to display with our collection!

One of these days we have to get together.

Cheers,

Sirhr

spooledup · Apr 23, 2017

Sirhr,
Nice stock for sure! I have a feeling there will be some really nice builds in the near future. 0331 is great to deal with for sure! I will get some pics of my stock and accessories up shortly.

spooledup · Apr 23, 2017

spooledup · Apr 23, 2017

pmclaine · Apr 23, 2017

sirhrmechanic said:
P.S. Claine... thanks for the awesome goodie package! I'll take that down to the PD to display with our collection!

One of these days we have to get together.

Cheers,

Sirhr

A meager gift of appreciation for being right there on the phone call to help me get my M45A1.

If the mouse pad is not needed as a mouse pad perhaps you can use it as a recoil pad on your new build, you will need it.

FatBoy · Apr 24, 2017

Recoil is MUCH better with a supressor. I couldn't get any info on what the Army guys used on the 700/300 or mod0 except that is was not a KAC unit. I also checkered the thread cap, which is not to spec, it was seamless on the early ones. Since mine won't be as correct as many I went with the advice of an end use who said it took channel locks to bust them loose after awhile afield. Gloved hand would just slip. That said, my guy said the cans almost never got used and the caps were pretty much painted on.

Sirhr,

interesting to see the come ups on the right side. Wonder if the shooter was a lefty?

Chris

sandwarrior · Apr 24, 2017

FatBoy said:
Recoil is MUCH better with a supressor. I couldn't get any info on what the Army guys used on the 700/300 or mod0 except that is was not a KAC unit. I also checkered the thread cap, which is not to spec, it was seamless on the early ones. Since mine won't be as correct as many I went with the advice of an end use who said it took channel locks to bust them loose after awhile afield. Gloved hand would just slip. That said, my guy said the cans almost never got used and the caps were pretty much painted on.

Sirhr,

interesting to see the come ups on the right side. Wonder if the shooter was a lefty?

Chris

It's funny that in the early '80's I never saw any Army ever using the Rem 700 on ops. I did see stock Rem 700's on the range at Ft. Bragg in the summer and early Dec. of '83. All wood stocks, no fiberglass. Keep in mind, us Rangers were special ops...just not special enough to see all the goodies.

FatBoy · Apr 25, 2017

The scouts in my leg battalion in the early 90s in Germany still carried M21s. In the mid 90s, at FTCKY they had M24s. Guessing this was the transitional period for leg battalions, though Clinton's cuts to the military had everyone scraping together whatever they could to do any kind of training. We spent way more time cutting grass and doing police call than shooting. Not even blanks.

pmclaine · Apr 25, 2017

FatBoy said:
We spent way more time cutting grass and doing police call than shooting. Not even blanks.

I hated police call, cleaning clean weapons and the motor pool to PM vehicles. I wish someone would get it into their heads that setting up and running a compass course/map skills costs nothing and actually sharpens a skill people can use.

sandwarrior · Apr 25, 2017

o

pmclaine said:
I hated police call, cleaning clean weapons and the motor pool to PM vehicles. I wish someone would get it into their heads that setting up and running a compass course/map skills costs nothing and actually sharpens a skill people can use.

No kidding! Not to mention that a topo map is one way of estimating/verifying range...now that the military had finally adopted an increased range sniper round; 300WM. It finally became fact 20 or so years later ha ha.

...

FatBoy · Apr 26, 2017

pmclaine said:
I hated police call, cleaning clean weapons and the motor pool to PM vehicles. I wish someone would get it into their heads that setting up and running a compass course/map skills costs nothing and actually sharpens a skill people can use.

If they did that I might actually be able to find way points with a map and compass instead up just using a slugger.

using trig to estimate range???... blasphemy these days.

sandwarrior · Apr 26, 2017

FatBoy said:
If they did that I might actually be able to find way points with a map and compass instead up just using a slugger.

using trig to estimate range???... blasphemy these days.

Blasphemy indeed, Sir! Old technology seems dumb to these kids. But, when the power goes out what do they turn to?

Many of us were quite impressed when sirhr gave a breakdown of how the WWI Warner Swasey worked. Trig... check! Brain engaged... wait a minute... Checking the math, that works! Wow!

FatBoy · Apr 26, 2017

You should see guys faces when I pull out range cards for my shooting boxes.... mostly for archery

Of course, if I could actually move my 17#, 56" long mk13 around in a box I probably wouldn't need a range card. 300 yard dead hold? Check.

That 230 OTM is a bit much for 150# whitetail.

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