Things I've Learned with the "Ammo Crisis"

BytorJr · Aug 8, 2021

1) Many more ammunition manufacturers I'd never heard of: Sterling, Igman (prolific now), Cascade, Mesko, Sumbro(X-force from Macedonia), Belom, Century, ZSR , Fetter, BPS, MaxxTech.

Seems like quite of few of these manufacturers are in the former Yugoslavia. I've never purchased any of these because frankly, the quality of production scares me just based off where these rounds are manufactured. They may well be fine for training purposes. It's actually quite fascinating to discover these things. Things I don't normally think of such as "I wonder who's making ammo for Macedonia."

2) The bigger suppliers such as Outdoor Limited, Target Sports USA, Ables, Grafs, Lucky Gunner, seemed to be almost continually out of stock whilst smaller, previously lower profile online stores seem to be 'in-stock.'

3) Fortunately, the supply line is back up. I've noticed 380 ACP has gone from $800-$1100 / 1000 rds to about $450-$500 / 1000 rds. 9mm is down to $0.34/rd and 5.56 can now be found for about $0.45/rd. Hopefully by end of year things will continue moving southwards in the $$ department.

Mwalex · Aug 8, 2021

4) that most people are morons for either not having ammo on hand or way over paying in a panic.

7.62willdo · Aug 8, 2021

I learned that small rifle magnum primers work in .223 just as well as standard small rifle primers.......

BytorJr · Aug 8, 2021

Mwalex said:
4) that most people are morons for either not having ammo on hand or way over paying in a panic.

LOL. I already assumed most are morons for not having ammo on hand.

Maybe "5)" is that despite warning people to buy ammo NOW back in April 2020, they didn't listen, then repeated in August 2020...still didn't listen....and then....poof, it all went away.

For me...I've overpaid on a few things, admittedly; but only for match ammo (since I'm an idiot for not reloading) and some 22. Excluding 22, I bet I haven't bought more than 300 rounds since August 2020.

Salad_shooter · Aug 9, 2021

7.62willdo said:
I learned that small rifle magnum primers work in .223 just as well as standard small rifle primers.......

They work really well for 300 blk too!

deersniper · Aug 9, 2021

Mwalex said:
4) that most people are morons for either not having ammo on hand or way over paying in a panic.

It doesn’t even matter it’s a panic. Inflation is gonna kick our ass now.

we will never again see
$0.24 Polymer tip 223,
$1 556 77tmk,
$0.65 6.5 CM 140 match
$1 6.5cm 140 ELD
$1 6.5cm 95 vmax

etc
etc

addertooth · Aug 9, 2021

There were some smart comments above. There were some "shallow thinker" comments above too.

We had a surge in new gun owners, they didn't buy ammo a YEAR ahead of their FIRST gun purchase for OBVIOUS reasons. I do not blame them for buying ammo at high prices.

Some people ADDED new guns to their existing collection. Some of these new guns were of a NEW caliber.
For those who added a new gun, they had no reason to buy rounds for the gun, a year BEFORE they bought it. I do not blame them for buying ammo at high prices.

All of these new guns had to be zeroed, and the owners (who were smart), wanted to spend some range time to get comfortable/proficient with those new guns. I applaud people with new guns, who insist on becoming capable with them. I do criticize those who have bought guns for the first time, and did not fire them. They are in the category of "why did you even buy a gun?".

hlee · Aug 9, 2021

I’m just hoping to see primers again...

Mwalex · Aug 9, 2021

addertooth said:
There were some smart comments above. There were some "shallow thinker" comments above too.

We had a surge in new gun owners, they didn't buy ammo a YEAR ahead of their FIRST gun purchase for OBVIOUS reasons. I do not blame them for buying ammo at high prices.

Some people ADDED new guns to their existing collection. Some of these new guns were of a NEW caliber.
For those who added a new gun, they had no reason to buy rounds for the gun, a year BEFORE they bought it. I do not blame them for buying ammo at high prices.

All of these new guns had to be zeroed, and the owners (who were smart), wanted to spend some range time to get comfortable/proficient with those new guns. I applaud people with new guns, who insist on becoming capable with them. I do criticize those who have bought guns for the first time, and did not fire them. They are in the category of "why did you even buy a gun?".

If you think that the new gun owners and people that added a new caliber were the biggest drivers for the ammo shortage then you are most likely mistaken. With an estimated 75 million gun owners in the US new buyers would account for a very small percentage of that total number. New calibers would have an effect albeit small and would seem to have the largest effect on 9mm ammo based on current buying trends for pistols and probably .223/5.56. The largest effect, based purely on numbers, would be the "fair weather" gun owner that sees a run on ammo and panic. There are more of those than new buyers. Be very careful with the "shallow thinker" bullshit comments.

Mwalex · Aug 9, 2021

Frederick_77 said:
Fair enough.

What I can't help but noticing Is how there was a somewhat moderate price increase from March to November and then everything disappeared from the shelves the week of the election. And THEN the prices started hitting 2x,3x,4x+ ranges. And with a few exception the ammo is still gone from shelves Locally. There were oddball calibers that held out for awhile and in June some stores got backorders in that were cleared out in days.

This is gun control... everyone has been on the lookout for laws to "come and take it." Well now they've starved out and strangled the whole industry.

Ammo is available on line and the supply has loosened a good bit over the past couple of months and the prices have dropped considerably but not to pre-Covid levels.

I think the election thing was a black swan - a very anti-gun administration going into office and a prolonged supply chain shut down combined to wipe out supply. The price increases were/are just supply and demand.

addertooth · Aug 9, 2021

Mwalex said:
If you think that the new gun owners and people that added a new caliber were the biggest drivers for the ammo shortage then you are most likely mistaken. With an estimated 75 million gun owners in the US new buyers would account for a very small percentage of that total number. New calibers would have an effect albeit small and would seem to have the largest effect on 9mm ammo based on current buying trends for pistols and probably .223/5.56. The largest effect, based purely on numbers, would be the "fair weather" gun owner that sees a run on ammo and panic. There are more of those than new buyers. Be very careful with the "shallow thinker" bullshit comments.

I pointed out that not everyone who bought during shortages who were lampooned with item number 4 on the list were "morons"...

"(4) that most people are morons for either not having ammo on hand or way over paying in a panic."

I am deeply sorry the truth bomb hurt you feelings, sounds like time for some range therapy. That advice sounds good for me as well.

Mwalex · Aug 9, 2021

addertooth said:
I pointed out that not everyone who bought during shortages who were lampooned with item number 4 on the list were "morons"...

"(4) that most people are morons for either not having ammo on hand or way over paying in a panic."

I am deeply sorry the truth bomb hurt you feelings, sounds like time for some range therapy. That advice sounds good for me as well.

A "truth bomb" is not the issue it is myopic know it all assholes that have seemed to infested this sight and cannot post without being insulting. So go fuck yourself.

Oh yeah, anyone that says they dropped a "truth bomb" is pretty much a choade.

hlee · Aug 9, 2021

I went to a gun show a couple of months ago, and let me tell you, there was no ammo shortage there. It just confirmed in my mind that the 'shortage' is primarily driven by resellers that swarm and decimate the available inventory and flip it to make a buck off panicky gun enthusiasts. The prices were insane, even by plandemic standards.

salks · Aug 9, 2021

I learned that though I keep a supply. I should keep more of one. I have bought very few things at panic prices. It just adds to the problem and I refuse to buy anything from second hand sellers out to make a buck. I hope the price drops out and they have to eat that shit.

Mwalex · Aug 9, 2021

Frederick_77 said:
What if you could only purchase alcohol online? What if you could only buy a car through Carvana?

We're a couple months away from there having been no ammo physically on shelves for virtually a year.

If you walked into your supermarket and there was no beer on the shelves for a year, would that not raise a red flag?

Is that not defacto prohibition?

The supply has not loosened on ammo everywhere, and that should alarm people as to what is possible without even passing a law.

I see your point and appreciate the perspective but I view it a little differently with ammo. A lot of the local gun stores for me cannot buy in the volume(s) that the online sellers do so they are lower in the supply chain. That is a type of prohibition, I guess, but is driven by supply and demand rather than some law limiting or stopping the stores ability to get ammo. Again, I am not as concerned about the situation because of the issues with the supply chain and that starting to loosen up somewhat. Now, that being said the entire Covid bullshit was one great way to institute gun and ammo control without passing any laws.

acudaowner · Aug 9, 2021

Well I am thankful that even though I was late getting into reload just as things were getting hard to find , I was and have been able to pick up a lot of supplies yes I am paying more for them than I wish I had to , but at least I had enough to last me roughly 3 to 4 years of shooting if I don't go nuts at the range . I hope you are able to find the items you might be looking for good luck .

308pirate · Aug 9, 2021

Frederick_77 said:
Well now they've starved out and strangled the whole industry.

Who is they and how did they do it?

308pirate · Aug 9, 2021

BytorJr said:
1) Many more ammunition manufacturers I'd never heard of: Sterling, Igman (prolific now), Cascade, Mesko, Sumbro(X-force from Macedonia), Belom, Century, ZSR , Fetter, BPS, MaxxTech.

Seems like quite of few of these manufacturers are in the former Yugoslavia. I've never purchased any of these because frankly, the quality of production scares me just based off where these rounds are manufactured. They may well be fine for training purposes. It's actually quite fascinating to discover these things. Things I don't normally think of such as "I wonder who's making ammo for Macedonia."

All the ammo I've ever bought from the former Yugoslav republics (Serbia, Croatia, and maybe Bosnia) has been excellent in quality and performance. Belom is good stuff. I've burned about 1500 rounds of it in training classes and not a single problem.

Also from experience: avoid any ammo made in Turkey like it has covid.

addertooth · Aug 9, 2021

Mwalex said:
A "truth bomb" is not the issue it is myopic know it all assholes that have seemed to infested this sight and cannot post without being insulting. So go fuck yourself.

Oh yeah, anyone that says they dropped a "truth bomb" is pretty much a choade.

You started out so well with your response. But apparently you failed at the end. I find that extending an opinion with polite words is a luxury, it is frequently a luxury beyond other people's means. I wish you well.

Mwalex · Aug 9, 2021

addertooth said:
You started out so well with your response. But apparently you failed at the end. I find that extending an opinion with polite words is a luxury, it is frequently a luxury beyond other people's means. I wish you well.

I will be polite then - go fuck yourself, please.

addertooth · Aug 9, 2021

Mwalex said:
I will be polite then - go fuck yourself, please.

Much Better!

RUTGERS95 · Aug 9, 2021

BytorJr said:
1) Many more ammunition manufacturers I'd never heard of: Sterling, Igman (prolific now), Cascade, Mesko, Sumbro(X-force from Macedonia), Belom, Century, ZSR , Fetter, BPS, MaxxTech.

Seems like quite of few of these manufacturers are in the former Yugoslavia. I've never purchased any of these because frankly, the quality of production scares me just based off where these rounds are manufactured. They may well be fine for training purposes. It's actually quite fascinating to discover these things. Things I don't normally think of such as "I wonder who's making ammo for Macedonia."

2) The bigger suppliers such as Outdoor Limited, Target Sports USA, Ables, Grafs, Lucky Gunner, seemed to be almost continually out of stock whilst smaller, previously lower profile online stores seem to be 'in-stock.'

3) Fortunately, the supply line is back up. I've noticed 380 ACP has gone from $800-$1100 / 1000 rds to about $450-$500 / 1000 rds. 9mm is down to $0.34/rd and 5.56 can now be found for about $0.45/rd. Hopefully by end of year things will continue moving southwards in the $$ department.

igman is good stuff imho

vinniedelpino · Aug 9, 2021

I'd add:

1. Don't go to public ranges during a gun run if your safety is a concern.
2. New gun buyers leave a treasure trove of brass.

The local public range became a scary place. I'm not ashamed that I went and barely shot at all. I just sat like a hawk waiting for people to leave without picking up their brass. I now have enough .223, 9mm, .45acp, .300 win mag and .308 to last a lifetime of plinking.

Doc68 · Aug 9, 2021

BytorJr · Aug 9, 2021

RUTGERS95 said:
igman is good stuff imho

good to know. I thought they probably were since I saw a post a long time ago on some 50 BMG. But, I'm very leery of this imported shit like MaxxTech or is that MinTech?

RUTGERS95 · Aug 10, 2021

BytorJr said:
good to know. I thought they probably were since I saw a post a long time ago on some 50 BMG. But, I'm very leery of this imported shit like MaxxTech or is that MinTech?

I once bought 3k as the Iraq war was winding down and Igman had a small supply contract with NATO so had some overruns. Sealed, accurate enough, nice brass, went bang everytime and it was almost as cheap as steel!

hlee · Aug 10, 2021

RUTGERS95 said:
... Sealed, accurate enough, nice brass, went bang everytime and it was almost as cheap as steel!

Was at the local big box store yesterday and- at least around here- brass cased winchester xm193 is within $0.10 per round of import steel 223 ammo. I'll take the brass, thank you very much.

nn8734 · Aug 10, 2021

vinniedelpino said:
I'd add:

1. Don't go to public ranges ~~during a gun run if your safety is a concern.~~

The local public range became a scary place.

Refined it a bit...

vinniedelpino · Aug 10, 2021

nn8734 said:
Refined it a bit...

Very true.

I sell out for convenience from time to time. It's right around the corner from my house and my members only range is an hour and a half away.

RUTGERS95 · Aug 10, 2021

I go to a private range, won't even consider a public range

hlee · Aug 10, 2021

The local range was a complete shit show last weekend. Got in and out in about an hour.

theLBC · Aug 10, 2021

i've had good results from serbian ppu m80.

Soulezoo · Aug 10, 2021

7.62willdo said:
I learned that small rifle magnum primers work in .223 just as well as standard small rifle primers.......

They work just fine in .357 mag too.

Thank me later.

ptalar · Mar 4, 2022

I know this is an older thread but I have to ask: has anybody used ZSR ammo? Any good? Corrosive? Please advise.

XTREM HTR16 · Mar 4, 2022

5) AJ was right

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