Is the 6.5 Creedmoor too "perfect" of a round for a "Battle Rifle"?

ScipioAfricanus · Aug 30, 2021

The commercial factory ammunition in 6.5 Creedmoor tends to max out at about 147 grains, and many of the commercial offerings are far lighter than that.

Whereas the classical NATO battle rifles [7.62/308] offered payloads out to 175 and even 185 grains.

When reading about the 6.5 Creedmoor, I keep stumbling upon comments like the following [concerning a 143 grain round]:

MT: "I just shot a Muley Doe at about 250 yards... Hit her in the shoulder with one of these bullets and she limped off. I was able to finish her off after a short tracking job. When I skinned her out I found that the bullet never entered the chest cavity. It hit the front shoulder and and there it stayed..."

White Owl: "Shot mule deer at 30 yds with 3 shots thru lungs in Montana last week. The deer stood there like nothing happened..."

Chase: "...My hunting guide found the access 3 days later approx 400 yards away with a pencil hole through both shoulders..."

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/101693199/

Or comments like this [concerning a 129 grain round]:

Horatio NeAlda Gomez Rodriduiz Johnson: "My concern is expansion. I put 2 nice pin holes through a tide bottle filled with water with zero expansion.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1017716196/

So is the 6.5 Creedmoor too "perfect" of a round for a Battle Rifle?

Is it too fast, too aerodynamic, too clean, too surgical?

Conversely, is there anything to be gained from using a bigger slower sloppier round in a Battle Rifle?

Thanks for any advice!

acudaowner · Aug 30, 2021

lol , not by a long shot I love it but it's far from perfect other wise every shot would be in one hole even if you changed targets self steering it's not , but god says it's pretty close . lol

D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷ · Aug 30, 2021

Yes. Please send me your ammo. And rifle. I’ll dispose of them while you search for 308

HogsLife · Aug 30, 2021

It’s a great cartridge for the spot it fills. IMO it’s ticks all the boxes where the 308 is lacking ballistic wise and with readily available quality factory ammo. What You will Give up to the .308 at those close to intermediate ranges is energy on target. the 6.5 will make up some ground at the further distances though. And of course barrel life.

Bolt Gun? I’d go 6.5CM

Semi Battle Rife? 308 all day due to more energy on target at the close to mid range targets where BC is less important and barrel the extended life.

What the CM is not is the end all be all perfect LR Cartridge do all cartridge.

Peterpan · Aug 30, 2021

the 6.5 creed a perfect battle rifle chambering?
https://giphy.com/gifs/movie-reaction-gross-4baoNZ5Qo8dX2

loveha · Aug 30, 2021

If we are only talking hunting. I take little stock in others hunting experiences unless I have video proof, or at least pictures of entry and exit wounds if it exited. Shooting a small container of water is not a test. That is just shooting a small container of water and wasting time. If you want to test a bullet, I understand wet soggy phone books or news paper is a good medium. Otherwise you need more than a single tide bottle. Need like three separate gallon jugs of water otherwise.

Take all reviews with a grain of salt as if the person writing it doesn't know what they are doing.

Every deer I have shot and lost, was my fault. Not my equipments, be it arrow, or the bullet. Fortunately only a few, which I still remember perfectly. Each because I was impatient and thought I could make the shot count.

GUNNER10 · Aug 30, 2021

I am not a hunter BUT, the 120g to 140g class of bullet has been used in Europe since the late 1800's to take game out of stuff like the 6.5x55. I don't think that a perfect round exist, but stuff like the 6.5cm is really effiecent and from a practical stand point, I don't think there is going to be a substantial difference between a 308 and 6.5cm at you average range which most shots are taken on hogs and deer.

For large game, I think there are better tools.

ScipioAfricanus · Aug 30, 2021

GUNNER10 said:
For large game, I think there are better tools.

Well, that's just the thing.

Battle Rifles are designed to be aimed at a great big 6'6" 350-lb mammal which is charging you [and possibly tens or hundreds of such mammals all charging you at once].

With the 6.5 Creedmoor, I keep reading these field reports of "perfect pencil tip entry and perfect pencil tip exit".

So that gets me to wondering: If that perfect pencil tipped object fails to so much as nick an artery, then is the round so surgically precise & pure & perfect that its entry and exit won't even phase the 6'6" 350-lb mammal which is about to kill you?

Again: Would you be better off with a slower sloppier clumsier round, which nicked all sorts of vital parts, maybe without even exiting?

This is a serious question, by the way.

We are trying to upgrade to worst-case-scenario SHTF Battle Rifles, and we don't want to come to discover [once it's too late to do anything about it] that we had invested in the wrong platform.

Thanks again.

HogsLife · Aug 30, 2021

ScipioAfricanus said:
Well, that's just the thing.

Battle Rifles are designed to be aimed at a great big 6'6" 350-lb mammal which is charging you [and possibly tens or hundreds of such mammals all charging you at once].

With the 6.5 Creedmoor, I keep reading these field reports of "perfect pencil tip entry and perfect pencil tip exit".

So that gets me to wondering: If that perfect pencil tipped object fails to so much as nick an artery, then is the round so surgically precise & pure & perfect that its entry and exit won't even phase the 6'6" 350-lb mammal which is about to kill you?

Again: Would you be better off with a slower sloppier clumsier round, which nicked all sorts of vital parts, maybe without even exiting?

This is a serious question, by the way.

We are trying to upgrade to worst-case-scenario SHTF Battle Rifles, and we don't to come to discover [once it's too late to do anything about it] that we had invested in the wrong platform.

Thanks again.

300-350 lbs anything isnt Issue for either cartridge. People been stacking 1000lbs animals with 308’s for along time. Just cause we have the Creedmoor now doesn’t mean 308’s just start buncin off everything they hit.

Sloppy? The 308 is FAR from sloppy at those ranges to the point where you won’t see any noticeable difference between the 2. 308 will hit with more energy and has 2-3x the barrel life..

ScipioAfricanus · Aug 30, 2021

People been stacking 1000lbs animals with 308’s for along time.

Exactly, and you can get the 308 out towards 175 & 185 grain, which will inflict an enormous amount of damage to the torso of any North American mammal which is unfortunate enough to be on the receiving end of one of those larger grain bullets.

But, again, that's my question: Is the 6.5 Creedmoor, down around 147gr [or 120gr or even only 90 gr] so sharp & slender & surgical & precise that there are multiple different paths by which it could make its way into and then out of the torso of a mammal, without causing mortal damage to the mammal?

Meaning that: With a 6.5 Creedmoor, is there a fairly high probability that the round could pass completely through the torso of a mammal, but only inflict a "flesh wound", rather than a mortal wound?

https://files.catbox.moe/rsl3eb.mp4

GrumpyOleFart · Aug 30, 2021

6.5 Creedmoor will perform better than the 5.56.
It's a step in the right direction.

Bakwa · Aug 30, 2021

I've taken deer with 6.5 ELD-X's from 40yds to 250yds. Never had to track more than 30-40yds. Always impressive terminal damage.

I'm always wary of stories like what OP used as examples.

I have a buddy that only shoots 300 win mag. He claims his reason is because he shot a deer with a 30-06 at 50yds and it just walked off. Swears it was a kill shot.
So according to this story, we should all be questioning whether 30-06 is enough cal for whitetail in FL. LOL
You get my point.

MtnCreek · Aug 30, 2021

I shot a whitetail in the head four times with a creedmoor. Bastard started jacking off.

sirhrmechanic · Aug 30, 2021

In a serious and directly-related question… is the man-bun “too perfect” a hairstyle for a human being?

Where a mere old sloppy flat-top just sort of sticks randomly out of the head like wheat stubble waiting to blow off in the wind.

Thanks for any advice…

Sirhr

VA-Varminter · Aug 30, 2021

You only get proper expansion if you follow the barrel break in procedures in the 6.5 owner's manual. It's right after the craft beer section and just before the chapter on how skinny jeans improve accuracy.

sirhrmechanic · Aug 30, 2021

There is a whole thread to steal meme's from, too...

Sirhr

Supersubes · Aug 30, 2021

ScipioAfricanus said:
Exactly, and you can get the 308 out towards 175 & 185 grain, which will inflict an enormous amount of damage to the torso of any North American mammal which is unfortunate enough to be on the receiving end of one of those larger grain bullets.

But, again, that's my question: Is the 6.5 Creedmoor, down around 147gr [or 120gr or even only 90 gr] so sharp & slender & surgical & precise that there are multiple different paths by which it could make its way into and then out of the torso of a mammal, without causing mortal damage to the mammal?

Meaning that: With a 6.5 Creedmoor, is there a fairly high probability that the round could pass completely through the torso of a mammal, but only inflict a "flesh wound", rather than a mortal wound?

https://files.catbox.moe/rsl3eb.mp4

The answer is a hard no. Youre quibbling over .044” difference in diameter, and 35 grains of bullet weight.

VA-Varminter · Aug 30, 2021

BoilerUP · Aug 30, 2021

Has anybody ever questioned the terminal effects of the 270 Winchester, which has been slinging bullets the same weight of 6.5 Creedmoor for nearly a century?

VA-Varminter · Aug 30, 2021

BoilerUP said:
Has anybody ever questioned the terminal effects of the 270 Winchester, which has been slinging bullets the same weight of 6.5 Creedmoor for nearly a century?

Yes. I double lunged a whitetail buck with a 270 and it ran 250 yards, made a scrape, fucked a doe, fought a bigger buck, and finally died.

TriggerJerk! · Aug 30, 2021

MtnCreek said:
I shot a whitetail in the head four times with a creedmoor. Bastard started jacking off.

I nominate @MtnCreek for the post of the month award! This was golden!!!

Bender · Aug 30, 2021

I used a .308 once and came home, my hard drive on the computer was erased, wife was pregnant, daughter had an F in math class, and my son took up knitting as a hobby.
I never had these issues with my 6.5

DocRDS · Aug 30, 2021

Whatever Boomer.

Assault Rifles are where its at.

And the perfect Battle Rifle Round is 30-06. Preferably in a Machine that goes 'ping'

TriggerJerk! · Aug 30, 2021

Mike Casselton · Aug 30, 2021

Bakwa said:
I've taken deer with 6.5 ELD-X's from 40yds to 250yds. Never had to track more than 30-40yds. Always impressive terminal damage.

I'm always wary of stories like what OP used as examples.

I have a buddy that only shoots 300 win mag. He claims his reason is because he shot a deer with a 30-06 at 50yds and it just walked off. Swears it was a kill shot.
So according to this story, we should all be questioning whether 30-06 is enough cal for whitetail in FL. LOL
You get my point.

(Said in my best Pedo Joe impression):

Come on man?!!
What kinda crazy stuff are you spouting?

Everyone knows you need a 450 Bushmaster and a 4.5-27× optic to kill deer and hogs at 23 yards from your blind.

Just shoot 'em in the leg with a shotgun.

Mike Casselton · Aug 30, 2021

sirhrmechanic said:
In a serious and directly-related question… is the man-bun “too perfect” a hairstyle for a human being?

View attachment 7693903

Where a mere old sloppy flat-top just sort of sticks randomly out of the head like wheat stubble waiting to blow off in the wind.

Thanks for any advice…

Sirhr

Manbun?
Did someone say Manbun?
I got yer Manbun right here.

Ledzep · Aug 30, 2021

This one has potential...

Just for shits and giggles, OP... Do a quick google search for "M80 ball" and tell us what you think of "battle rifles" and ~147gr projectiles not being enough...

BCP · Aug 30, 2021

I can just imagine the army of the future with 6.5mm caseless ammunition piston rifles still losing wars to 74IQ arabs armed with AKs.

Fig · Aug 30, 2021

TonyTheTiger · Aug 30, 2021

I'm still trying to figure out how we started at battle rifles then transitioned to 350lb charging mammals like those two things are in any way related to each other.
Also, when reading hunting stories on the internet remember that 7 in 10 hunters are pathological liars.

Doc68 · Aug 30, 2021

You're doing it wrong, you have to shoot the 308 out of the creedmoor barrel. That makes it extra deadly.

Doc

jakelly · Aug 30, 2021

BCP said:
I can just imagine the army of the future with 6.5mm caseless ammunition piston rifles still losing wars to 74IQ arabs armed with AKs.

In the Army’s defense, if they’re fighting Arabs with IQs of 74, those are the elite.

GUNNER10 · Aug 30, 2021

ScipioAfricanus said:
Exactly, and you can get the 308 out towards 175 & 185 grain, which will inflict an enormous amount of damage to the torso of any North American mammal which is unfortunate enough to be on the receiving end of one of those larger grain bullets.

But, again, that's my question: Is the 6.5 Creedmoor, down around 147gr [or 120gr or even only 90 gr] so sharp & slender & surgical & precise that there are multiple different paths by which it could make its way into and then out of the torso of a mammal, without causing mortal damage to the mammal?

Meaning that: With a 6.5 Creedmoor, is there a fairly high probability that the round could pass completely through the torso of a mammal, but only inflict a "flesh wound", rather than a mortal wound?

https://files.catbox.moe/rsl3eb.mp4

Like I mentioned before I am not a hunter, but if the 6.5 class bullet has been used in Scandinavia pretty regularly for the past 100 years on game that not really that much different than we have here, I am not sure if there is an issue here. I would be willing to wager this is more so a combination of poor bulled choice combine with poor shot placement than a slight difference in diameter. Hell, I've seen hunters re-zero their redfield hunting scopes and barley be able to put 3 rounds on a paper plate at 100 yards. Be it 6.5,308,30-06 or 300wm, all are pretty capable of killing any dear or pig variant in this country.

D̷e̷v̷i̷l̷D̷o̷c̷A̷Z̷ · Aug 30, 2021

TonyTheTiger said:
I'm still trying to figure out how we started at battle rifles then transitioned to 350lb charging mammals like those two things are in any way related to each other.
Also, when reading hunting stories on the internet remember that 7 in 10 hunters are pathological liars.

It’s prob more like 10 in 7

Bender · Aug 30, 2021

7.62 Creedmoor is Bestest

Ledzep · Aug 30, 2021

Here's a fun tip for everyone... Hop on Midwayusa and read only the BAD reviews of hunting bullets. Some interesting stories to be read....

Jsp556 · Aug 30, 2021

Odd, I’ve found the Nosler 125gr ballistic tip shot from a 308 to work extremely well on deer and hogs.

Must be that extra girth fuckin them walls up.

sirhrmechanic · Aug 30, 2021

TonyTheTiger said:
I'm still trying to figure out how we started at battle rifles then transitioned to 350lb charging mammals like those two things are in any way related to each other.
Also, when reading hunting stories on the internet remember that 7 in 10 hunters are pathological liars.

I thought that was fisherman?
As for how did this happen? Look up at the very top of this thread. All the way up. Higher than that. See where it says bear pit?

That’s how.

clcustom1911 · Aug 30, 2021

ScipioAfricanus said:
The commercial factory ammunition in 6.5 Creedmoor tends to max out at about 147 grains, and many of the commercial offerings are far lighter than that.

Whereas the classical NATO battle rifles [7.62/308] offered payloads out to 175 and even 185 grains.

When reading about the 6.5 Creedmoor, I keep stumbling upon comments like the following [concerning a 143 grain round]:

Or comments like this [concerning a 129 grain round]:

So is the 6.5 Creedmoor too "perfect" of a round for a Battle Rifle?

Is it too fast, too aerodynamic, too clean, too surgical?

Conversely, is there anything to be gained from using a bigger slower sloppier round in a Battle Rifle?

Thanks for any advice!

Comparing the same grain weights between 2 different calibers is apples to oranges. A 7.62 NATO "battle rifle" usually shoots M80 ball ammo, which is 147gr. That bullet moves significantly faster than the 175gr M118LR ammo.

"Battle Rifle" denotes being used on humans who, by and large, are not 6'6" and 330 pounds.

No matter what caliber you choose to do whatever with, shot placement matters. Lateral, double lung, the trifecta lung/heart/lung, or brain shot. Any bullet used at the appropriate distance for that bullets application/ethical energy on target will do the job in those areas.

clcustom1911 · Aug 30, 2021

sirhrmechanic said:
I thought that was fisherman?
As for how did this happen? Look up at the very top of this thread. All the way up. Higher than that. See where it says bear pit?

That’s how.

Technically, we're not in the Pit. Just sayin.

candyx · Aug 30, 2021

sirhrmechanic said:
In a serious and directly-related question… is the man-bun “too perfect” a hairstyle for a human being?

View attachment 7693903

Where a mere old sloppy flat-top just sort of sticks randomly out of the head like wheat stubble waiting to blow off in the wind.

Thanks for any advice…

Sirhr

Let me guess 6.5 AI Rifle Owner ?

DocRDS · Aug 30, 2021

I think we need to lay out some definitions:

"Battle Rifle"
A rifle from days of yore, when men were men, we killed everything with our Bowie Knives, walking uphill both ways to school in blinding snow in 100 degree heat. Known to stop Jerry by the very sound of it being chambered, let alone those filthy Nips who had to be flamed out of every nook and cranny of the pacific. Useful in Liberating Cuba, Europe, Central America and Korea (not valid north of 38th Parallel). Carried between 5-20 rounds in the magazine, usually weighed about 47 lbs because WE WERE MEN GODDAMMIT

"Assualt RIfle"
Pansy ass plastic that is the bane of Modern Society. All Modern day ills including CRT, GLobal Warming, and Afghanistan are because we switched to 5.56 and the Plastic Colt AR-15 (which was the 15th version of the assault rifle (thus AR) invented by the CIA), betraying our mancode and laying the precursor to the "Woke" 6.5 Creedmoor. Useful in losing to towelheads, Charlie, Democrats. Also weighs about 47 pounds cause you idiots can't say no to a cool new accessory to strap on.

"Hunting Round"
Child killing bullets banned by the Geneva Convention

"Ball Ammo"
Child Killing Bullets banned by the State Wildlife Management AND EVERY DUMB ASS RANGE IN DALLAS

30-06
God's Round

270 Winchester
DON'T MAKE GODS ROUND GO FAST YOU PANSY. BIG AND HEAVY ONLY. (its like in Exodus or something)

303 British
Old Testament God's Round before he dropped his british accent and found himself and said 'Murica

8MM Mauser
Please God don't be German

6.5 Swede
Those damn blond swedes beat all all to be being homos for 6.5 rounds. They prance around in the forest shooting elk, deer, and other animals which because 6.5 is underpowered as a bullet, they must then hump to death.

308
New Testament God's Round. Too manly for today's youth. Will penatrate anything from tank armor to concrete bunkers. Way too manly for today. That's why we don't use it anymore. Suitable for only small game like Squirrels and Moose

6.5 Creedmoor
A plot by liberals to make us all woke by shooting a 6.5 round formed from a 308 case. Invented by George Floyd for which he was killed

243 Winchester
A closet plot by liberals to get us to all use 6 mm and paint our stocks Pink with sparkles. Way underpowered for hunting. Excellent Deer round

30-30
SHUT UP OLD TIMER NO ONE CARES

5.56
The Devils Round. Will rattel arround inside you causing hydrostatic shock. Once created a 20 foot crater near a school. Can be shot at 4 million rounds a second and is heat seeking, smart guided to find innocent victims which it infects with AIDS so they die a horrible death. Suprsingly useless in combat because the enemy refuse to just quit and go home.

7.62x39
The best round ever
NO ITS NOT YOU COMMIE FAG
OMG YES IT IS YES IT IS
SHUT UP IT TRASH AND YOU KNOW ITS TRASH
(Soviet Devil's Round)

300 Blackout
American Copy of Soviet Copy of American Copy of German Copy of America's original Devil's Round.

300 Win Mag
Light recoiling deer rifle for youth and slender builds.

8mm Kurtz
"I know nothing"

BoilerUP · Aug 30, 2021

^^^Where does Dasher fall on that list?

HogsLife · Aug 30, 2021

VA-Varminter · Aug 30, 2021

TonyTheTiger said:
I'm still trying to figure out how we started at battle rifles then transitioned to 350lb charging mammals like those two things are in any way related to each other.
Also, when reading hunting stories on the internet remember that 7 in 10 hunters are pathological liars.

sirhrmechanic · Aug 30, 2021

clcustom1911 said:
Technically, we're not in the Pit. Just sayin.

You are right... damn this place is going to hell! Used to be able to tell the bear pit from the regular threads. ;-)

BTW, OP joins last night... something like 4 messages. And first thing he is asking about is killing power of rounds...

I smell a rotten fish. Either an agent provocateur or someone who should be on a watch list...

Just 'sayin.

Sirhr

BoilerUP · Aug 30, 2021

We're ALL on a "watch list"...or three.

308pirate · Aug 30, 2021

Is this thread for real?

Troll score 10/10

TriggerJerk! · Aug 30, 2021

Here is some info I posted elsewhere. Might be of interest to some...

Col./Dr. Martin Fackler MD is no longer with us, but he contributed a career of information on terminal ballistics. Here are a couple of useful links (below).

Terminal Ballistics

Wound Ballistics, Ballistic Injury, Stopping Power, Gunshot Wounds

Long Range 338 · Aug 30, 2021

OP
What most people seem to overlook is that one must consider bullet construction when hunting. The greatest bonded type bullet is not magic at 100 yards when placement is behind the shoulder and the bullet passes thru before it can expand. Whereas a soft point bullet will excel in the same scenario. When shooting bonded bullets, aim for bone and put the critter down.
I’m aware the 6.5CM is touted as magic on social media but one also must consider the combination of bullet, animal, and distance if a level of performance is expected.

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Is the 6.5 Creedmoor too "perfect" of a round for a "Battle Rifle"?

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