Tell me this guys I have a stock rem that shoots ½ moa when I am working right on a good day. I would like to buy a GAP but when I am looking on their website and most of them shoot the same what is the benefit of spending the coin on it. I wouldn’t mind one I know it is a custom and has a lot more work done to it, than the rifle that I currently shoot on a regular basis. What are some if the other benefits?
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½ moa rifle
- Thread starter bowhunter_0311
- Start date
Re: ½ moa rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bowhunter_0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> ½ moa when I am working right on a good day. </div></div>
There are a lot of "IF's" in there...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bowhunter_0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> ½ moa when I am working right on a good day. </div></div>
There are a lot of "IF's" in there...
Re: ½ moa rifle
Guess that I didn’t have the question written the best, I own a Wilson cqb that I believe has a 1in at 15yds guarantee I did not buy it for that. It shoots damn nice but I just wanted a nicer 1911. But with that being said it does shoot nicer than any of my other 1911’s.
Guess that I didn’t have the question written the best, I own a Wilson cqb that I believe has a 1in at 15yds guarantee I did not buy it for that. It shoots damn nice but I just wanted a nicer 1911. But with that being said it does shoot nicer than any of my other 1911’s.
Re: ½ moa rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bowhunter_0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ya I know but IMO if the rifle has done it before it will do it again. </div></div>
will it? if you take the shooter out of the equation, will your factory rifle shoot 1/2 moa all the time? i once shot a 3 round 1-7/8" group at 1000 yards with a factory 700p shooting factory federal match 300 win mag ammo. can i claim that was about a 3/16 moa rifle/ammo combo? hell no.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bowhunter_0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ya I know but IMO if the rifle has done it before it will do it again. </div></div>
will it? if you take the shooter out of the equation, will your factory rifle shoot 1/2 moa all the time? i once shot a 3 round 1-7/8" group at 1000 yards with a factory 700p shooting factory federal match 300 win mag ammo. can i claim that was about a 3/16 moa rifle/ammo combo? hell no.
Re: ½ moa rifle
For one thing, the GAP will do it more consistently.
If it isn't shooting /12 moa, it is probably the shooter, though some lots of ammo can cause this.
For another, once you get behind one and just work the bolt and feel how smooth and solid it is, you will want one.
I do not have a custom stick, I have fondled some at a local smithy.
One of these days, he will get my 5R to tweak (and it shoots damn well)
For one thing, the GAP will do it more consistently.
If it isn't shooting /12 moa, it is probably the shooter, though some lots of ammo can cause this.
For another, once you get behind one and just work the bolt and feel how smooth and solid it is, you will want one.
I do not have a custom stick, I have fondled some at a local smithy.
One of these days, he will get my 5R to tweak (and it shoots damn well)
Re: ½ moa rifle
I've worked on a lot of factory 700s that have shot very well. Sub MOA is what I mean on a constant basis. I did have one 5R that came in to be cut back to 20 inches, and have a break installed. No skim bedding, no special loads, and it consistantly shot in the .100s with 168 FGMM. So it is not impossible for a factory rifle to shoot great, but that was one rifle in all my time.
Benefits of a custom are you choose the components, and are guaranteed the under 1/2 MOA. that's as simple as I can put it. Hope that help a little. If you like the way your great shooting rifle looks and feels, then the smart thing to do is shoot the heck out of it. Good luck.
I've worked on a lot of factory 700s that have shot very well. Sub MOA is what I mean on a constant basis. I did have one 5R that came in to be cut back to 20 inches, and have a break installed. No skim bedding, no special loads, and it consistantly shot in the .100s with 168 FGMM. So it is not impossible for a factory rifle to shoot great, but that was one rifle in all my time.
Benefits of a custom are you choose the components, and are guaranteed the under 1/2 MOA. that's as simple as I can put it. Hope that help a little. If you like the way your great shooting rifle looks and feels, then the smart thing to do is shoot the heck out of it. Good luck.
Re: ½ moa rifle
If you have to ask, my guess is you've never held/fired a quality aftermarket rifle.
Rifles built with the best components in this country, by one of the top smiths in this country, dont feel or shoot anything like a factory production built rifle.
Im not going to list all the ways theyre better. Buy one and see.
And it sounds silly to some, but there are more important things than one hole bench-top accuracy in some of the more rugged shooting sports.
If you have to ask, my guess is you've never held/fired a quality aftermarket rifle.
Rifles built with the best components in this country, by one of the top smiths in this country, dont feel or shoot anything like a factory production built rifle.
Im not going to list all the ways theyre better. Buy one and see.
And it sounds silly to some, but there are more important things than one hole bench-top accuracy in some of the more rugged shooting sports.
Re: ½ moa rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bowhunter_0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guess that I didn’t have the question written the best, I own a Wilson cqb that I believe has a 1in at 15yds guarantee I did not buy it for that. It shoots damn nice but I just wanted a nicer 1911. But with that being said it does shoot nicer than any of my other 1911’s. </div></div>
Same reason why myself and many others chose to have a rifle built by one of the many excellent smith's on this site. I wanted something nicer that has the components I want and was hand built by someone with a lot of attention to detail.
The same can be said for knives, my $30 CRKT can cut things just the same as my pre-production benchmade. But I prefer to carry the benchmade because of it's craftsmanship and quality.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bowhunter_0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guess that I didn’t have the question written the best, I own a Wilson cqb that I believe has a 1in at 15yds guarantee I did not buy it for that. It shoots damn nice but I just wanted a nicer 1911. But with that being said it does shoot nicer than any of my other 1911’s. </div></div>
Same reason why myself and many others chose to have a rifle built by one of the many excellent smith's on this site. I wanted something nicer that has the components I want and was hand built by someone with a lot of attention to detail.
The same can be said for knives, my $30 CRKT can cut things just the same as my pre-production benchmade. But I prefer to carry the benchmade because of it's craftsmanship and quality.
Re: ½ moa rifle
bowhunter - when you say you have a 1/2 MOA factory rifle - what exactly do you mean?
Do you mean that if you fire several 5 round groups at least one will be 1/2 MOA? Will all? At what distance? What is difference in POI for CCB / CB / Warm Fouled / Hot Fouled?
I had a PSS that shot well, but had 1" + shift both vertically and horizontally between the above. After I had it worked on and it was the same POI all day, every day.
One of the other things that can help explain it better is to read up on single pass cut barrels that are hand lapped vs a hammer forged barrel. That and what truing really means.
One last thought if your rifle shoots well - shoot the crap out of it like it is. In the mean time get a subscription to Precision Shooting Magazine. It will cover these topics as well as a myriad of other accuracy related topics in an in depth manner. Read it for a year or two and save your pennies. Then have what you really want built based on what you have learned.
Good luck
ETA - With respect to your Wilson - while I don't shoot a Wilson I do shoot Baers. Even a Glock will stack them on top of one another at 15. I see the real difference between a Baer and a Glock from 25 to 100. I'll bet the same would be true if a Wilson were put in my hands.
bowhunter - when you say you have a 1/2 MOA factory rifle - what exactly do you mean?
Do you mean that if you fire several 5 round groups at least one will be 1/2 MOA? Will all? At what distance? What is difference in POI for CCB / CB / Warm Fouled / Hot Fouled?
I had a PSS that shot well, but had 1" + shift both vertically and horizontally between the above. After I had it worked on and it was the same POI all day, every day.
One of the other things that can help explain it better is to read up on single pass cut barrels that are hand lapped vs a hammer forged barrel. That and what truing really means.
One last thought if your rifle shoots well - shoot the crap out of it like it is. In the mean time get a subscription to Precision Shooting Magazine. It will cover these topics as well as a myriad of other accuracy related topics in an in depth manner. Read it for a year or two and save your pennies. Then have what you really want built based on what you have learned.
Good luck
ETA - With respect to your Wilson - while I don't shoot a Wilson I do shoot Baers. Even a Glock will stack them on top of one another at 15. I see the real difference between a Baer and a Glock from 25 to 100. I'll bet the same would be true if a Wilson were put in my hands.
Re: ½ moa rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">bowhunter - when you say you have a 1/2 MOA factory rifle - what exactly do you mean?
Do you mean that if you fire several 5 round groups at least one will be 1/2 MOA? Will all? At what distance? What is difference in POI for CCB / CB / Warm Fouled / Hot Fouled?
</div></div>
+1
"1/2MOA" is such a vague term. Many folks refer to 1/2MOA as " I had one 3-shot group out of 5 at 100 yards shoot less than 1/2." This is very different from saying, "in steady conditions, I can shoot a 20-shot string inside of 3 inches at 600 yards."
The best high-power shooters would be very happy with any rifle that shoots "1/2MOA."
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">bowhunter - when you say you have a 1/2 MOA factory rifle - what exactly do you mean?
Do you mean that if you fire several 5 round groups at least one will be 1/2 MOA? Will all? At what distance? What is difference in POI for CCB / CB / Warm Fouled / Hot Fouled?
</div></div>
+1
"1/2MOA" is such a vague term. Many folks refer to 1/2MOA as " I had one 3-shot group out of 5 at 100 yards shoot less than 1/2." This is very different from saying, "in steady conditions, I can shoot a 20-shot string inside of 3 inches at 600 yards."
The best high-power shooters would be very happy with any rifle that shoots "1/2MOA."
Re: ½ moa rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bowhunter_0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tell me this guys I have a stock rem that shoots ½ moa when I am working right on a good day. </div></div>
Wow, it sounds like you have a great rifle, if you are strickly after accuracy then you might consider keeping the rifle you have and spending your money on top knotch glass.
SScott
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bowhunter_0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tell me this guys I have a stock rem that shoots ½ moa when I am working right on a good day. </div></div>
Wow, it sounds like you have a great rifle, if you are strickly after accuracy then you might consider keeping the rifle you have and spending your money on top knotch glass.
SScott
Re: ½ moa rifle
Bowhunter,
You are not ready for a custom rifle. Shoot the barrel out of the one you have, then you will know what you want and the value of why you want it.
Bowhunter,
You are not ready for a custom rifle. Shoot the barrel out of the one you have, then you will know what you want and the value of why you want it.
Re: ½ moa rifle
I know this is a hard choice as you think hey I have the great rifle how much better can it get and that is a valid question and feeling. My advice to you is contact some Hide members in your area that have some custom rifles. Or, since you live in Georgia go talk to American Precision Arms and play with some of their rifles and let the pro tell you the differences. But, once you go to the shop and play with the rifles get ready to open up the check book because I will guarantee you will get one.
American Precision Arms
I know this is a hard choice as you think hey I have the great rifle how much better can it get and that is a valid question and feeling. My advice to you is contact some Hide members in your area that have some custom rifles. Or, since you live in Georgia go talk to American Precision Arms and play with some of their rifles and let the pro tell you the differences. But, once you go to the shop and play with the rifles get ready to open up the check book because I will guarantee you will get one.
American Precision Arms
Re: ½ moa rifle
Bowhunter,
What part of the state do live in? I live in West Central GA, about an hour south of Hell-- sorry, I meant to say Atlanta. I'm new to long range custom rifles myself but I'm learning fast. I have a GAP 308 that you are welcome to shoot sometime if you like. I have a gun range 2 miles from my house so I can go most anytime. Good luck, Shane
Bowhunter,
What part of the state do live in? I live in West Central GA, about an hour south of Hell-- sorry, I meant to say Atlanta. I'm new to long range custom rifles myself but I'm learning fast. I have a GAP 308 that you are welcome to shoot sometime if you like. I have a gun range 2 miles from my house so I can go most anytime. Good luck, Shane
Re: ½ moa rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bowhunter_0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tell me this guys I have a stock rem that shoots ½ moa when I am working right on a good day. I would like to buy a GAP but when I am looking on their website and most of them shoot the same what is the benefit of spending the coin on it. I wouldn’t mind one I know it is a custom and has a lot more work done to it, than the rifle that I currently shoot on a regular basis. What are some if the other benefits? </div></div>
BH0311,
I've not seen a GAP shoot 1/2 MOA. I've always seen their rifles shoot far better than that. For quite a while, it seems that 1/2 MOA was an industry standard guarantee, but I know George guarantees 3/8 MOA or better for rifles built on the Templar.
You can certainly believe there's a huge difference between a factory rifle and a GAP.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bowhunter_0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tell me this guys I have a stock rem that shoots ½ moa when I am working right on a good day. I would like to buy a GAP but when I am looking on their website and most of them shoot the same what is the benefit of spending the coin on it. I wouldn’t mind one I know it is a custom and has a lot more work done to it, than the rifle that I currently shoot on a regular basis. What are some if the other benefits? </div></div>
BH0311,
I've not seen a GAP shoot 1/2 MOA. I've always seen their rifles shoot far better than that. For quite a while, it seems that 1/2 MOA was an industry standard guarantee, but I know George guarantees 3/8 MOA or better for rifles built on the Templar.
You can certainly believe there's a huge difference between a factory rifle and a GAP.
Re: ½ moa rifle
I'm not sure if this applies to you, but most of the groups I've seen here are at 100yds. 1/2 moa at 100yds is one thing, but maintaining that at 1000 yds is completely different. Plus cherrypicking the best 3-shot group out of several groups is vastly different than consistent 5-shots groups under 1/2 moa.
I'm not sure if this applies to you, but most of the groups I've seen here are at 100yds. 1/2 moa at 100yds is one thing, but maintaining that at 1000 yds is completely different. Plus cherrypicking the best 3-shot group out of several groups is vastly different than consistent 5-shots groups under 1/2 moa.
Re: ½ moa rifle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ccollier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bowhunter,
What part of the state do live in? I live in West Central GA, about an hour south of Hell-- sorry, I meant to say Atlanta. I'm new to long range custom rifles myself but I'm learning fast. I have a GAP 308 that you are welcome to shoot sometime if you like. I have a gun range 2 miles from my house so I can go most anytime. Good luck, Shane</div></div> I live in SE ga 10 min from the ga/fl line
To all others... the gap will do it all the time understood... one of the problems that I do have with my rifle is getting it to be the same zero every time always seems like I have to rezero every time that I go out. Not sure if it was me our the rifle. One thing about the rifle is the trigger never seemed to be consistant and it had a hogue stock on it. Hogue is now gone and trigger has been replaced since it broke last time out damn shoe broke in half on the first shot. Have not had a chance to do some more testing to see if the problem is myself or rifle. Glass is nxs 3-15 there is no doubt in my mind that that a gap is much better I dont plan on getting one any time soon I still have/need a good bit of time behind the one that I have and for me right now there is nothing wrong with the way that is shoots other than having to rezero all the time but once rezeroed it is good to go till the next time that I go out.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ccollier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bowhunter,
What part of the state do live in? I live in West Central GA, about an hour south of Hell-- sorry, I meant to say Atlanta. I'm new to long range custom rifles myself but I'm learning fast. I have a GAP 308 that you are welcome to shoot sometime if you like. I have a gun range 2 miles from my house so I can go most anytime. Good luck, Shane</div></div> I live in SE ga 10 min from the ga/fl line
To all others... the gap will do it all the time understood... one of the problems that I do have with my rifle is getting it to be the same zero every time always seems like I have to rezero every time that I go out. Not sure if it was me our the rifle. One thing about the rifle is the trigger never seemed to be consistant and it had a hogue stock on it. Hogue is now gone and trigger has been replaced since it broke last time out damn shoe broke in half on the first shot. Have not had a chance to do some more testing to see if the problem is myself or rifle. Glass is nxs 3-15 there is no doubt in my mind that that a gap is much better I dont plan on getting one any time soon I still have/need a good bit of time behind the one that I have and for me right now there is nothing wrong with the way that is shoots other than having to rezero all the time but once rezeroed it is good to go till the next time that I go out.
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