“Non Surefire” Weapon Lights

[AirborneOkie]

Modlite!

 

[CrowCommand]

another vote for Arisaka here

 

[AngryKoala]

Wading into the debate here, as I've had my fair share of "light adventures", especially over the past 6 months. I'm a big proponent of having a useable light that works for your purposes on all rifles that you own.

@Jigstick, at your budget tier, a $150 Streamlight will likely perform adequately and sufficiently. Are they the "best" solution? Maybe not, but they hit your budget tier, and are likely durable enough to withstand your uses while performing the illumination task. A buddy of mine likes his Streamlight just fine that sits on his suppressed MK18 clone and has gone through probably north of 12k rounds on the rifle with the light mounted. Actually, he just told me that he hasn't had any problem with the Protacs when shooting unsuppressed or suppressed . I'd say . He did recently upgrade to a Modlite 18650 on one of his uppers, and a Surefire 640DF on another MK18 clone upper that is identical. His choice wasn't based around the Streamlight's performance, and he still runs Streamlight Protacs on other rifles that he has and likes the light.


@JC0352's questions are super-pertinent to your light choice, and should be the driving factors behind your decision.

Here's another factor to the discussion that may or may not matter to you: If you don't care about the type of batteries that you're using, then CR123s are likely just fine, but my personal preference goes to 18650 and 18350s. AAs still have a place, but unless you have a logistical reason for selecting a weaponlight that uses them, then they're not really relevant to the weaponlight discussion, just my opinion.

I have briefly used an Arisaka/Malkoff combo, and if you're willing to spend a bit more money, they perform well. I really don't have much experience with them though, so I can't comment on them outside of "they work reasonably well from my limited experience". I haven't ever heard bad things about them or that they were inadequate though.

Ok, so on to the much higher budget (like, 2 to 3x your budget) options:

The Modlite lights perform as advertised, are highly modular, and are extremely rugged. The PLHv1 heads are a great step up in output and performance from the Surefire 640DF, with the PLHv 2 heads being magnitudes of power (in useable lumens and candela) above the PLHv1 and every Surefire Scout series light that I've ever used, period. The PLHv2 eclipses the PLHv1 in output by a noticeable margin, which is impressive to say the least. Output is a double-edged sword, however, as face and eyeball melting output can also affect you. Anecdotally, I actually like the Streamlight's output, and find it is reasonable and adequate for illumination indoors. Again, @JC0352's questions should really drive your light selection. If you're looking at a beam that really does reach out in distance, the Modlite OKW head performs this extremely well. I haven't had the opportunity to compare an OKW to the Cloud Defensive OWL side by side, but the OKW has noticeably more "reach" than Surefire heads, Streamlight heads, and the PLHv1 and PLHv2, if being able to ID targets is of interest to you.

The Cloud Defensive OWL is probably my favorite light in terms of output and beam profile - it's just awesome - if the REIN is anything like the OWL concerning the actual performance of the light and beam profile, then it's worth saving up for and holding out to upgrade. Is it expensive? Definitely, but I view a good light as critically important on any rifle. You cannot positively identify what you cannot adequately see, period.

Another option is to purchase components for these lights on the secondhand market, which shouldn't be extremely difficult. Do keep in mind that if you're looking for an option that gives you access to an extended mount, a pressure switch/mount, and a tailcap, this is going to add up in price very quickly. That little illumination device and a way to activate it hanging off of your rifle will, depending on the components, cost you north of $400. In this way, the Streamlight Protac packages are actually pretty great, in that you get a useable light, pressure pad, and mount for under $200. For comparison, you'll spend $108 on a Surefire ST07 tape switch and UE07 tailcap alone if purchased separately new.

Notice that I didn't really mention Surefire? There's a reason for that: I used to own a number of Scout series lights from them, and, while they have a great brand and perform really well, for the price point, they kind of come off as a lackluster option by comparison to some of the other options on the market for my purposes. That doesn't mean that they are bad lights by any means, and herein lies an opportunity: Surefire Scout series lights will be on the secondhand market for pretty reasonable prices, which is a great thing if you like Surefire as a brand and trust them. Also, all Surefire Scout series tailcaps, pressure pads, and most of the aftermarket mounts for Scout lights are compatible with the Arisaka and Modlite 600 series and 300 series bodies; In other words, you are already buying components (outside of the light body and head, generally speaking) of a future, more powerful light if you want it, and those components will likely retain their value and relevancy on the secondhand market if you want to sell them.

Hope that this helps your decision, and good luck!

Surefire is lackluster? Out of all the lights you mentioned only one of them has actually been battle tested to my knowledge. Everything else is theoretical. That is why I buy Surefire and the fact they have been around longer with great customer service (my experience). I personally like the Surefire spill better than the Modlite focused beam
For home defense. I could see the modlite style being attractive for a patrol rifle.
I am not sure lackluster is the best word to describe a Surefire light.

 

[ormandj]

Surefire is lackluster? Out of all the lights you mentioned only one of them has actually been battle tested to my knowledge. Everything else is theoretical. That is why I buy Surefire and the fact they have been around longer with great customer service (my experience). I personally like the Surefire spill better than the Modlite focused beam
For home defense. I could see the modlite style being attractive for a patrol rifle.
I am not sure lackluster is the best word to describe a Surefire light.

Surefire isn't infallible, they aren't the same innovative company they used to be. They've had their share of issues lately, and things like their tape switch wiring not being properly sized to handle the output of some of their newer lights is suspect from an engineering perspective. Don't get caught up too much in the hype train, not everything stays great forever. I don't think anybody is saying they are 'bad', but they are definitely lackluster in today's market. Lackluster, in this example, is referring to keeping up with the market. Just like their suppressors, there are significantly better options available for the same or less price, in all aspects - to include durability.

 

[AngryKoala]

Surefire isn't infallible, they aren't the same innovative company they used to be. They've had their share of issues lately, and things like their tape switch wiring not being properly sized to handle the output of some of their newer lights is suspect from an engineering perspective. Don't get caught up too much in the hype train, not everything stays great forever. I don't think anybody is saying they are 'bad', but they are definitely lackluster in today's market. Lackluster, in this example, is referring to keeping up with the market. Just like their suppressors, there are significantly better options available for the same or less price, in all aspects - to include durability.

I am not riding the hype train but I cannot overlook their history nor the products that I have used from them. Their suppressors (mines in jail) are known for their durability and are designed for a specific purpose. They are not the quietest can but that is not what they were designed for.
A lot of their products are designed for military use and may not readily compare to something that was designed for the civilian market.
When the other products have the same field testing/real world use then I will consider them. I don't purchase products from fly by night companies. If they stick around and prove their reliability over a long period of time then I will consider them.

 

[Leftie]

@AngryKoala I don't disagree with your points at all, and I do think that Surefire is a good product and fulfills a role. Their suppressors are very good products that were designed to fulfill a specific requirement set, and are extremely rugged. I also think that your point about personal preference is a great one: everyone does have personal preferences, and as more light users become educated about different beam profiles, throw vs. spill etc., they are able to choose what works best for them, and that's beneficial to the individual, and collective user groups in the industry.

Surefire does, however, need to acknowledge that there are other (very savvy) players in the flashlight industry who are "near peer" competitors. Cloud Defensive and Modlite Systems aren't stupid or a passing fad- Both of them applied for and received CAGE codes: (Cloud Defensive: 7SYY9) (Modlite Systems: 88C12). Last time I checked, you don't just apply for a CAGE code to look cool on Instagram or to attract interest in the civilian market. Both of these companies are gearing up to compete with Surefire in the coming 24 months, and I bet that we will see their products competing for market share within Surefire's customer base... and winning, at least initially. I also consider this scenario a tremendous win for the average civilian customer, as market competition promotes innovation, and the flashlight market has been pretty stagnant in terms of durable, Berry Compliant options for a long, long time... I don't want to come off sounding like I am hating on Surefire (because I like their products a lot and own too many of them), but, I do think that the customer pays a premium for the Surefire brand name relative to the product (but maybe not relative to their customer service and lifetime warranty).

It is also worth noting that there are some companies out there that conduct significant testing behind closed doors and with help from very real-world elements in field conditions prior to any of their products even being mentioned in the public or larger military space. Often, really good ideas that are implemented by experienced entrepreneurs appear to come to market overnight, but have really been years in the making, and have gone through multiple layers of Research, Development, Testing, and Evaluation (RDT&E) cycles to even get to a first generation consumer-facing product.

Surefire isn't infallible, they aren't the same innovative company they used to be. They've had their share of issues lately, and things like their tape switch wiring not being properly sized to handle the output of some of their newer lights is suspect from an engineering perspective.

@ormandj hit a major nail on the head, and I've seen it first hand looking at these lights side-by-side, comparing Surefire tape switches with the Unity Tactical Hot Button in particular. There is a noticeable difference in output, but that's not to say that a Surefire tape switch doesn't perform adequately and that the output from a Modlite PLHv2 is less than a Surefire 640DF (the PLHv2 still outperforms the 640DF using an ST07 or ST09 switch).

Other companies that are not Surefire have identified this problem, come up with reverse-compatible solutions, and are now beginning to educate the greater market on the features, advantages, and benefits of their product as a next generation solution. When they succeed (because the barriers to achieving greater output and performance are hindered by an upgradable component, and not necessarily physics or price), Surefire better either license the technology, acquire the company, or have already had their R&D shop working on a comparable or superior product that is mature enough to bring to market. If they don't, then Surefire will lose relevancy and market share.

 

[AngryKoala]

100% agree with everything you said. I just wanted to point out that there may be reasons for their design and it could be due to them being designed for military use. I honestly hope other companies do develop better or as good products because in the end the consumer wins.
I plan to try some of these other lights when I get more rifles in (when they become available) but for now I went with surefire because of the history I had with their other products. Hoping to develop that history with some other products as well.

 

[Sincerd]

Chinese manufactured lights are a no-go for me.

I have been happy with the Arisaka lights and they are made in the USA like the Surefires. They are less than $200, but more than $150.

This, keep the $ here.

 

[Leftie]

100% agree with everything you said. I just wanted to point out that there may be reasons for their design and it could be due to them being designed for military use. I honestly hope other companies do develop better or as good products because in the end the consumer wins.
I plan to try some of these other lights when I get more rifles in (when they become available) but for now I went with surefire because of the history I had with their other products. Hoping to develop that history with some other products as well.

I totally agree with your points, and Surefire is a great brand. We are lucky to be living in an era where we have so many good choices on the market from established brands and growing brands alike.

 

[AngryKoala]

I totally agree with your points, and Surefire is a great brand. We are lucky to be living in an era where we have so many good choices on the market from established brands and growing brands alike.

On a side , I unloaded and scanned a whole pallet of streamlight boxes last Sunday..so depressing I didn't even get to take one home. I also had to unload a bunch of Vortex scopes. Damn you Amazon.
The real kicker was the "prostate" massagers..a whole pallet worth lol.