◇ TAC Advice ◇ Guardian GTI Match

[Rogerthatout]

Hey all,
Im doing the Guardian GTI match in Nov. For those who dont know, its a team event and it requires some hiking and stairs. One player is open class, the other guy is TAC.
I'm responsible for shoot TAC on my trip.
Im torn up between bringing a 308 vs 223, will need to shoot out to 700 or possibly 800 for a small percentage of stages.

Im leaning towards bringing my Christiansen Arms MPR w a 16in barrel which gets me 2655fps w 168gr and a mark5 for a complete bu8ld weighing in at 10 lbs, I should be able to fold this up into a back pack and move around w ease.
OR
Impact 223 on a folding MPA which is a new build Im working on.
I also have a 308 tac driver desert tech w a 20 in Bartlein, shoots great but its heavy, 18 lbs w glass.

Looking for different point of views on
#1 CALIBER choice
#2 and your reasoning behind recommendations

Ty all!

 

[AIKNOWU]

Don't stress about it. I'm a super competitive dude, and am used to taking matches seriously. This match was just too much fun to worry about. The whole thing is a riot. Definitely do the scavenger hunt the night before, too.
It's not nearly as physical as you'd think. I'd compare it to a full day of middle school gym class. I shot it last year expecting to have some short rucks or movements under time, or maybe having to carry my partner around or the like. Very little of that. What movement there was was pretty fun in and of itself- I'll leave you the surprises.
My partner and I both had short or short folding guns. Mine was like 18lbs, his was probably 12 or 14. Both were very nice when crawling in tight spaces (covered ladders, etc.), but lots of people did just fine with full size guns and outshot us by a fair margin.

Just shoot the gun you like the most that week. You're more likely to get fucked over by your fear of heights or a power line than you are your caliber choice.

 

[Rogerthatout]

Lol, perfect . Ty so much. You going again?

 

[NGCSUGrad09]

Bring the .223. There are literally no reasons why you'd want to bring the .308 over a good shooting .223 bolt gun. Look at the 75gr Hornady ELDs, you should be able to get them 2800-3000 depending on powder selection and barrel length.

A lot of shooting is done from railings and other positions, so having light recoil for self spotting will be quite beneficial.

 

[drwood96]

A 223 bolt or long barrel AR will be fine. Had a DT in our group in 2019 that ran well. The most physical part was going up 13 stor at the start because you group started on the top. I’m going to have to talk to Gary about that since we’ve had the luck of doing it two years in a row. The guardian GTI is by far the best match out there that’s new shooter friendly.

The biggest skill to learn and practice before doing the match is identifying, ranging, and engaging targets as every stage is blind with a minor stresser. A set of LRF bino are a big help but a standard LRF will work.

This will be our third year shooting it and will shoot it every year they have even if it’s our only match.

 

[Rogerthatout]

Bring the .223. There are literally no reasons why you'd want to bring the .308 over a good shooting .223 bolt gun. Look at the 75gr Hornady ELDs, you should be able to get them 2800-3000 depending on powder selection and barrel length.

A lot of shooting is done from railings and other positions, so having light recoil for self spotting will be quite beneficial.

Thank you!

 

[Rogerthatout]

A 223 bolt or long barrel AR will be fine. Had a DT in our group in 2019 that ran well. The most physical part was going up 13 stor at the start because you group started on the top. I’m going to have to talk to Gary about that since we’ve had the luck of doing it two years in a row. The guardian GTI is by far the best match out there that’s new shooter friendly.

The biggest skill to learn and practice before doing the match is identifying, ranging, and engaging targets as every stage is blind with a minor stresser. A set of LRF bino are a big help but a standard LRF will work.

This will be our third year shooting it and will shoot it every year they have even if it’s our only match.

Thank you!

 

[drwood96]

Thank you!

FYI, they removed the caliber restriction for the secondary shooter this year because of the ammo situation.

 

[blbennett1288]

I have not shot GTI, but will be shooting it for the first time this November. We just shot our first Guardian match at Arena in June this year and I am hooked. A couple things I took away from the match:

1.) Laser range finding binoculars. I used a handheld laser rangefinder and binoculars independently and it ate up a lot of time finding targets with the binos, then switching and refinding the targets with the handheld rangefinder, and ranging.

2.) Dope / Data Management. We had dope cards on our arms but needed a better way of managing the ranges once we had them. Almost all stages were near to far and far to near. So you reengaged targets multiple times. I think the extra time you would spend creating a quick stage card would be beneficial. Too many times I went back to my dope card to look for dope.

3.) Gear management. You carry all your gear and most of the time deploy it on the clock. Having a well thought out kit and quickly accessible will make the world of difference. I plan to shrink my pack, carry only one bag, and find a way to attach my tripod.

4.) Caliber. The caliber restrictions have been lifted so both shooters can shoot whatever they want up to 300WM. I don’t think there is any benefit of shooting 223 over 308, other than lighter ammo and recoil management. I shot 308 out of a 16” barrel and had no issues engaging the targets out to 800. The majority of the targets were smaller and I personally prefer the feedback I got from the target and a 308 as opposed to a 223. I plan to run a 16” .308 again, not sure of gas or bolt at this point.

 

[drwood96]

I have not shot GTI, but will be shooting it for the first time this November. We just shot our first Guardian match at Arena in June this year and I am hooked. A couple things I took away from the match:

1.) Laser range finding binoculars. I used a handheld laser rangefinder and binoculars independently and it ate up a lot of time finding targets with the binos, then switching and refinding the targets with the handheld rangefinder, and ranging.

2.) Dope / Data Management. We had dope cards on our arms but needed a better way of managing the ranges once we had them. Almost all stages were near to far and far to near. So you reengaged targets multiple times. I think the extra time you would spend creating a quick stage card would be beneficial. Too many times I went back to my dope card to look for dope.

3.) Gear management. You carry all your gear and most of the time deploy it on the clock. Having a well thought out kit and quickly accessible will make the world of difference. I plan to shrink my pack, carry only one bag, and find a way to attach my tripod.

4.) Caliber. The caliber restrictions have been lifted so both shooters can shoot whatever they want up to 300WM. I don’t think there is any benefit of shooting 223 over 308, other than lighter ammo and recoil management. I shot 308 out of a 16” barrel and had no issues engaging the targets out to 800. The majority of the targets were smaller and I personally prefer the feedback I got from the target and a 308 as opposed to a 223. I plan to run a 16” .308 again, not sure of gas or bolt at this point.

My team shot with @blbennett1288 's at Guardian match at Arena. With the caliber restrictions remove, we both 6.5 CM and it made a big difference when engaging targets as our dope was similar out to 1,200. If possible, I suggest running similar calibers.

 

[blbennett1288]

My team shot with @blbennett1288 's at Guardian match at Arena. With the caliber restrictions remove, we both 6.5 CM and it made a big difference when engaging targets as our dope was similar out to 1,200. If possible, I suggest running similar calibers.

FWIW we only shot past 800 once.

And more than likely our team will be running 308 in November

 

[Rogerthatout]

FYI, they removed the caliber restriction for the secondary shooter this year because of the ammo situation.

Right on...might still shoot the 223

 

[TigernLionGSP]

A 223 bolt or long barrel AR will be fine. Had a DT in our group in 2019 that ran well. The most physical part was going up 13 stor at the start because you group started on the top. I’m going to have to talk to Gary about that since we’ve had the luck of doing it two years in a row. The guardian GTI is by far the best match out there that’s new shooter friendly.

The biggest skill to learn and practice before doing the match is identifying, ranging, and engaging targets as every stage is blind with a minor stresser. A set of LRF bino are a big help but a standard LRF will work.

This will be our third year shooting it and will shoot it every year they have even if it’s our only match.

got to love all the steps

 

[JustSendit]

FYI, they removed the caliber restriction for the secondary shooter this year because of the ammo situation.

Edit: wow read that wrong!
Thanks for the heads up.

 

[TigernLionGSP]

I have not shot GTI, but will be shooting it for the first time this November. We just shot our first Guardian match at Arena in June this year and I am hooked. A couple things I took away from the match:

1.) Laser range finding binoculars. I used a handheld laser rangefinder and binoculars independently and it ate up a lot of time finding targets with the binos, then switching and refinding the targets with the handheld rangefinder, and ranging.

2.) Dope / Data Management. We had dope cards on our arms but needed a better way of managing the ranges once we had them. Almost all stages were near to far and far to near. So you reengaged targets multiple times. I think the extra time you would spend creating a quick stage card would be beneficial. Too many times I went back to my dope card to look for dope.

3.) Gear management. You carry all your gear and most of the time deploy it on the clock. Having a well thought out kit and quickly accessible will make the world of difference. I plan to shrink my pack, carry only one bag, and find a way to attach my tripod.

4.) Caliber. The caliber restrictions have been lifted so both shooters can shoot whatever they want up to 300WM. I don’t think there is any benefit of shooting 223 over 308, other than lighter ammo and recoil management. I shot 308 out of a 16” barrel and had no issues engaging the targets out to 800. The majority of the targets were smaller and I personally prefer the feedback I got from the target and a 308 as opposed to a 223. I plan to run a 16” .308 again, not sure of gas or bolt at this point.

what was your team name I RO that match and brought the Pinzgauer to shoot out of

 

[drwood96]

what was your team name I RO that match and brought the Pinzgauer to shoot out of

We were Pecker Wood. Gary has jokes.

 

[blbennett1288]

what was your team name I RO that match and brought the Pinzgauer to shoot out of

We were B Squad Bombers

 

[ForgeValley]

I'll be at the Nov match at GTI... I'm torn between 300 PRC and a really mild 6 Creedmoor...

 

[drwood96]

I'll be at the Nov match at GTI... I'm torn between 300 PRC and a really mild 6 Creedmoor...

6cm 100%

 

[TigernLionGSP]

I remember both teams.

 

[ForgeValley]

6cm 100%

Yeah, that was mostly tongue in cheek... something about shooting at a decommissioned nuclear facility makes me feel like shooting a large caliber long action. Weird. We will probably both shoot 6CM since we both have rifles in that caliber.

 

[drwood96]

Yeah, that was mostly tongue in cheek... something about shooting at a decommissioned nuclear facility makes me feel like shooting a large caliber long action. Weird. We will probably both shoot 6CM since we both have rifles in that caliber.

I figured but run the 300prc if you want. We had a guy in our squad at Arena that ran 300WM and 44mag revolver. I think he hit all pistol targets too.

 

[Rogerthatout]

Please remove stair master pictures. Its keeping me up at night just thinking about it.


Yeah, the caliber restriction email looked like it raised the maximum but Im pretty sure it was meant to eliminate ALL restrictions....including TAC restrictions.

I say 6mm for sure. I'm hear shooting stances/props will not be very stable and managing recoil will be big part of the day.

 

[Rogerthatout]

Bring the .223. There are literally no reasons why you'd want to bring the .308 over a good shooting .223 bolt gun. Look at the 75gr Hornady ELDs, you should be able to get them 2800-3000 depending on powder selection and barrel length.

A lot of shooting is done from railings and other positions, so having light recoil for self spotting will be quite beneficial.

I've got the 75g ELDs ... working up loads soon. TY!

 

[Rogerthatout]

Well that was awesome!

All amazing advice. All perfect advice, thanks guys. The event was super fun, Gary knocked out all the big movements so I guess he made those adjustments after all. Thanks for chiming in.

TX next Guardian match for me