0,5 MOA promise details?

[oryx-koeln]

Hy everybody,

I am new to this forum and I am from germany.

I like to understand what a 0,5 MOA promise by a manufacturer means. It is hard to find detailed info about what exactly they promise. How many rounds? Including first round? What about multiple groups and do they all need to meet the 0,5 MOA?

At the moment we faced some trouble with MPA rifles for PRS and they give a 0,5 MOA promise, but from our point of view the rifles did not achieve this. Up to now, it was impossible to get any details from the German importer what is promised by MPA.

Maybe somebody has more info and any feedback is welcome.


Best regards


Oliver

 

[Supersubes]

You’ll have to contact MPA, there’s no standardization for individual company policies.

A three shot group with factory match ammo is pretty common.

 

[oryx-koeln]

We tried this, but we got no details and worst of all they said we should be able to achieve 1 MOA with factory ammo. Seems like they only can promise 0,5 MOA with reloaded Ammo. What is no problem to me, but sounds a bit strange to me. We got several other guns, making 0,5MOA with factory ammo (e.g. Lapua and Tikka) and now the ultimate MPA rifles needs reloaded ammo?
We had some groups with 0,5MOA with the MPA Master Piece rifles in 308, but we had shift in between the groups and each group hit at another point (shift by 0,2 to 0,3 MIL). Makes no sense for a PRS rifle. As well we had flyers.
We ordered 2 guns and both had exactly the same problems.

 

[sachsmart]

Typically a 5x5- 5, 5 shot groups. What caliber are you using? I got pretty good results with Lapua 6BR Ammo. Of course when I handload (mostly what I do) its more like 0.3 MOA

 

[oryx-koeln]

Sorry, but what do you mean by "Typically a 5x5- 5, 5 shot groups"?
5 groups with 5 shots each?

we are using 308, I know it is not the common PRS round, but we are so used to it becaue of other reasons......

 

[sachsmart]

Yes, five- five shot groups.
Federal gold medal match with SMK 168gr is pretty consistent if you can get them in Germany. Lapua 175gr OTM is pretty good as well.
Low ES & SD are more important than grouping at 100yrds for what its worth

 

[oryx-koeln]

We know both ammos and fully agree, they are good. We prefer the Lapua 175gr for Long Range, because of better BC. As well availability of some US ammo is sometimes a problem. But usually we reload and use ELD-X or ELD-M bullets.
There was no way the rifles do 5 groups with 5 rounds each and stay within 0,5 MOA. We were far away from this and if a gun achieves this, it is perfect.

We already got new barrels, but in the meantime we are at 15 month from order and we tried to understand what we can expect from the reworked rifles and what we should test. We are expecting a lot, because what MPA says, they are the best of the best. But it makes no sense to invest into an MPA, if any of our Tikka rifles performes better and costs 50% of the MPA.
It seems something went seriously wrong with our first guns. The muzzel thread did not match the tuner we ordered with the guns from MPA. The undercut was far to long and so the tuner, was not in contact with the threads anymore and wasn't centered. When we asked MPA, they said our guns were made by a Newbie and probably he didn't know how tuner is fixed. No idea, what else might have went wrong. How ever, I am a but suprised what we got from a top brand like MPA and how they deal with it.

 

[Supersubes]

Typically a 5x5- 5, 5 shot groups. What caliber are you using? I got pretty good results with Lapua 6BR Ammo. Of course when I handload (mostly what I do) its more like 0.3 MOA

That might be a standard we use here. No way the manufacturers are using that with factory ammo across all cartridges.

 

[Taylorbok]

I'd say it's a 3 shot group, no doubt they shoot multiple groups until one is under .5 moa.
There's no guarantee the gun will consistently produce .5 moa groups, just that it will do it, once in a while.

 

[Kfive73]

Just curious… how many rifles and what are the actual groups? That’s a bummer to hear about MPA

 

[oryx-koeln]

we ordered 2 rifles exactly the same. MPA Matrix Pro including tuner & brake in 308. We sometimes managed to shot 5 shot groups with a bit less than 0,5MOA, but never below 0,4MOA. And we never had multiple groups with 0,5MOA. Even more concerning was the shift of POI in between the groups and some regular flyers. We tried many different ammo, as well high end fabric loads and as well handloads. Shooting a lot, you start getting a feeling about the performance of a gun pretty fast and we started to be concerned very early, but we went on testing.
Due to the fact that both rilfes showed exactyl the same behaviour, if was obvious there is a problem with the gun.
Finally we gave up and reported this to MPA germany.
Together with MPA USA they decided to make and send new barrels. At that time we wasted about 150-200 rounds for each gun.......and we already waited 9 month for the guns to arrive. They promised 6 month. It took another 5 month from the first arrival until we had replacement barrels installed. In between this time, we asked them to keep the gun and we do not like to wait any longer. This request was rejected and we had to wait. As well we got no compensation for the rounds for testing and the time wasted.
The new guns seem to work now (just did basic testing so far), what is another prove there were problems with the guns. MPA even told us it was a newbie who made the guns, but how they deal with such an issue is not ok. Shit happens, but at that time, I should take more care for the customer. How ever, even when the guns finally work, I will sell it, because MPA doesn't seem to be the right company for me, looking at their service.

 

[oryx-koeln]

Are there other people arround here owning MPA PRS rifles? What is their experience? Maybe we had bad luck and usually they perform well. Do they always achieve the 0,5MOA? And hiw did you test the 0,5MOA? Would be interesting to know.

 

[Oldloser]

0.5 MOA with factory ammo is really hard to get even with a perfectly set up rifle. That is a rifle that is bedded, scope and action screws torqued right, and then tested until everything was perfect.

The chamber on the barrel should be cut and then the rifle headspaced for your target ammo as the first step. MPA should be sent or they should get an unfired case from the target ammo you want to use. And they should put their best guy on it.

The muzzle threads are not a good sign for the chamber job.

Have you tried shooting without the tuner on the barrel?

 

[oryx-koeln]

Yes, 0.5 MOA with factory ammo is tought, but possible. With Lapua Scenar L we usually make this happen with other guns. As well SD is very good.
Sure I tried without the tuner, having seen the wobbeling tuner, but same results.
I think, the problem maybe wasn't the barrel itself, but the installation or bedding. If you see shift of POI or flyer, is usually is not the barrel itself. We suggested to MPA germany to have a look to the guns with a professional , but they sticked to the barrel change and so we had to wait many month. Up to know, I cannot understand how they can send out a rifle at that price, knowing the barrel thread is not ok for the tuner the sell. And they ask a Newbee to produce such a rifle and seem nobody is checking what he is doing. But seem like there are no other people arround here, having problems with MPA rifles?