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0 moa or 20 moa pic rail for 10/22?
- Thread starter signal5
- Start date
Re: 0 moa or 20 moa pic rail for 10/22?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: signal5</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am building a 10/22 and will only be shooting out to 100yds. I am planning on buying a pic rail scope mount from EGW. Do I need the 0 moa or the 20moa? This is my 1st 22 that I am building. Thanks. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deersniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get the 20 moa. </div></div>
Second on the 20 MOA rail. To me, this isn't even a question. Even if you don't think you'll ever shoot beyond 100 yards, a 20 MOA rail on a 10/22 will help you compensate for the <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">barrel droop</span></span> inherent in the 10/22's V-Block barrel attachment system. All 10/22's have barrel droop - some more than others, but unless you have had the barrel and receiver mated together through correct machining and threading they all have it to some degree.
Without the use of a 20 MOA rail, you will also be dialing-in a fair amount of elevation when you zero - it is always better to zero with minimal scopes adjustments, as this helps keep the scope's internal adjustments closer to being centered. (Most low to middle range scopes' adjust more consistently [track] better within the middle range of their travel range).
Get a canted rail and don't look back. Zero cant (flat) rails and bases are a waste of money and elevation adjustment on a 10/22.
Keith
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: signal5</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am building a 10/22 and will only be shooting out to 100yds. I am planning on buying a pic rail scope mount from EGW. Do I need the 0 moa or the 20moa? This is my 1st 22 that I am building. Thanks. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deersniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get the 20 moa. </div></div>
Second on the 20 MOA rail. To me, this isn't even a question. Even if you don't think you'll ever shoot beyond 100 yards, a 20 MOA rail on a 10/22 will help you compensate for the <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">barrel droop</span></span> inherent in the 10/22's V-Block barrel attachment system. All 10/22's have barrel droop - some more than others, but unless you have had the barrel and receiver mated together through correct machining and threading they all have it to some degree.
Without the use of a 20 MOA rail, you will also be dialing-in a fair amount of elevation when you zero - it is always better to zero with minimal scopes adjustments, as this helps keep the scope's internal adjustments closer to being centered. (Most low to middle range scopes' adjust more consistently [track] better within the middle range of their travel range).
Get a canted rail and don't look back. Zero cant (flat) rails and bases are a waste of money and elevation adjustment on a 10/22.
Keith
Re: 0 moa or 20 moa pic rail for 10/22?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DFOOSKING</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If your only gonna shoot 100yds (which i find hard to believe) you don't need the canted rail. I shoot sub's and they need 9 MOA and full speeds need 4 MOA up to get to 100.</div></div>
While he may not "need" a canted rail, there are no disadvantages to using one, especially on a 10/22 where barrel droop is common. Also, as I mentioned before the use of a canted rail will also help to minimize elevation adjustment when zeroing - always a good thing.
Also, how do you know he doesn't need the canted rail? He may or may not have bought the receiver or rifle yet, so we don't know, do we? Some 10/22 have severe barrel droop and others have minimal barrel droop, but <span style="font-style: italic">they all have it</span>.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DFOOSKING</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Both are well within your scopes ability. Unless something is seroiusly aout of whack.
Hope this helps... </div></div>
Ummm...do you know the OP, has he conveyed what scope he will be using outside of this thread? If not, how do you know the capability of his scope, as he hasn't mentioned it in this thread? Just curious.
Keith
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DFOOSKING</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If your only gonna shoot 100yds (which i find hard to believe) you don't need the canted rail. I shoot sub's and they need 9 MOA and full speeds need 4 MOA up to get to 100.</div></div>
While he may not "need" a canted rail, there are no disadvantages to using one, especially on a 10/22 where barrel droop is common. Also, as I mentioned before the use of a canted rail will also help to minimize elevation adjustment when zeroing - always a good thing.
Also, how do you know he doesn't need the canted rail? He may or may not have bought the receiver or rifle yet, so we don't know, do we? Some 10/22 have severe barrel droop and others have minimal barrel droop, but <span style="font-style: italic">they all have it</span>.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DFOOSKING</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Both are well within your scopes ability. Unless something is seroiusly aout of whack.
Hope this helps... </div></div>
Ummm...do you know the OP, has he conveyed what scope he will be using outside of this thread? If not, how do you know the capability of his scope, as he hasn't mentioned it in this thread? Just curious.
Keith
Re: 0 moa or 20 moa pic rail for 10/22?
well i bought the rifle and it is a standard 10/22 but i will be putting on a bull barrel and most likely a bell and carlson varmit stock. currently I have 3-9x40 leupold rifleman for this rifle but plan on upgrading it once i get the rifle all together.
well i bought the rifle and it is a standard 10/22 but i will be putting on a bull barrel and most likely a bell and carlson varmit stock. currently I have 3-9x40 leupold rifleman for this rifle but plan on upgrading it once i get the rifle all together.
Re: 0 moa or 20 moa pic rail for 10/22?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: signal5</div><div class="ubbcode-body">well i bought the rifle and it is a standard 10/22 but i will be putting on a bull barrel and most likely a bell and carlson varmit stock. currently I have 3-9x40 leupold rifleman for this rifle but plan on upgrading it once i get the rifle all together. </div></div>
The B & C Varmint Target is a good stock - my brother bought an as-new old-school 10/22T (the old 10/22s' were much better finished than the new 10/22s') last year and mounted it in a B & C Varmint Target. He got lucky - many 10/22s' are tent stakes out of the box, but his 10/22T shoots very well and is pretty consistent in his B & C stock. Not as consistent as mine, but his only cost 1/3rd of what my custom did.
The B & C VT has excellent receiver to stock fit, including multiple barrel support points - I think that is part of why his 10/22T shoots so well stock, but like I said I think he got lucky (it is actually a good shooter) with his 10/22T as well.
The Leupold Rifleman 3-9X40mm has a claimed total travel of 56 MOA, which gives you a theorietical 28 MOA of "UP" and 28 MOA "DOWN" before sight-in. If your scope's LOS is 1.5" above the bore you will use about 3 MOA to zero at 50 yards. Then you'll need roughly another 6-7 MOA to get to 100 if using something like Wolf MT (Match Target) 40 gr.
28 MOA - 10 MOA is 18 MOA left - ASS-uming that your barrel does not droop. But 10/22s' have inherent barrel droop, its' just part of the engineering consequences of the V-Block barrel attachment system. Remember, gross adjustments to either Elevation or Windage can reduce the amount of travel available.
1/3 of one (1) degree = 20 MOA - a stock 10/22 will have <span style="font-style: italic">at least</span> this much barrel droop. If anyone doubts this, remove a stock 10/22 action from it's stock and note the barrel angle. If you can see the declination with the naked eye (and you will), the barrel droops. Even with a 20 MOA rail/base, you are just helping to correct the barrel angle.
Like I said - using a 20 MOA rail isn't even a question on a 10/22 - its' all positives with no negatives. Good luck and have fun.
Keith
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: signal5</div><div class="ubbcode-body">well i bought the rifle and it is a standard 10/22 but i will be putting on a bull barrel and most likely a bell and carlson varmit stock. currently I have 3-9x40 leupold rifleman for this rifle but plan on upgrading it once i get the rifle all together. </div></div>
The B & C Varmint Target is a good stock - my brother bought an as-new old-school 10/22T (the old 10/22s' were much better finished than the new 10/22s') last year and mounted it in a B & C Varmint Target. He got lucky - many 10/22s' are tent stakes out of the box, but his 10/22T shoots very well and is pretty consistent in his B & C stock. Not as consistent as mine, but his only cost 1/3rd of what my custom did.
The B & C VT has excellent receiver to stock fit, including multiple barrel support points - I think that is part of why his 10/22T shoots so well stock, but like I said I think he got lucky (it is actually a good shooter) with his 10/22T as well.
The Leupold Rifleman 3-9X40mm has a claimed total travel of 56 MOA, which gives you a theorietical 28 MOA of "UP" and 28 MOA "DOWN" before sight-in. If your scope's LOS is 1.5" above the bore you will use about 3 MOA to zero at 50 yards. Then you'll need roughly another 6-7 MOA to get to 100 if using something like Wolf MT (Match Target) 40 gr.
28 MOA - 10 MOA is 18 MOA left - ASS-uming that your barrel does not droop. But 10/22s' have inherent barrel droop, its' just part of the engineering consequences of the V-Block barrel attachment system. Remember, gross adjustments to either Elevation or Windage can reduce the amount of travel available.
1/3 of one (1) degree = 20 MOA - a stock 10/22 will have <span style="font-style: italic">at least</span> this much barrel droop. If anyone doubts this, remove a stock 10/22 action from it's stock and note the barrel angle. If you can see the declination with the naked eye (and you will), the barrel droops. Even with a 20 MOA rail/base, you are just helping to correct the barrel angle.
Like I said - using a 20 MOA rail isn't even a question on a 10/22 - its' all positives with no negatives. Good luck and have fun.
Keith
Re: 0 moa or 20 moa pic rail for 10/22?
50 to 100yd is about 5 minutes, 200 is another 19 or so with SV ammo.
LOTS of 10/22s with flat rails have trouble getting on @ 100yd.
As I advised on another recent thread, Burris Zee rings with eccentric inserts can get you a bunch of correction.
And somebody, TacSol or EGW maybe does a 25min rail.
50 to 100yd is about 5 minutes, 200 is another 19 or so with SV ammo.
LOTS of 10/22s with flat rails have trouble getting on @ 100yd.
As I advised on another recent thread, Burris Zee rings with eccentric inserts can get you a bunch of correction.
And somebody, TacSol or EGW maybe does a 25min rail.
Re: 0 moa or 20 moa pic rail for 10/22?
+2
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deersniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get the 20 moa. </div></div>
+2
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deersniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get the 20 moa. </div></div>
Re: 0 moa or 20 moa pic rail for 10/22?
Would recommend a 20 MOA base of one piece mount. Unless you plan to spend lots of money on a scope that has plenty MOAs, the 20 MOA cant base or mount will allow you to go further. I have the 20 NightForce unimount on mine.
Would recommend a 20 MOA base of one piece mount. Unless you plan to spend lots of money on a scope that has plenty MOAs, the 20 MOA cant base or mount will allow you to go further. I have the 20 NightForce unimount on mine.
Re: 0 moa or 20 moa pic rail for 10/22?
I've got a Bushnell Elite 4200 6-24x50 on my 10/22. The thing only has 50 MOA of elevation total. I put the EGW 20MOA base on it. With an older barrel and subsonics, I could get to 150yds before it topped off. I got a new threaded barrel and I can only get to 100 before it tops off. POI didn't really seem to shift that bad with suppressor.
That 10/22 of mine has always been bad for barrel droop. Every barrel I've stuffed into that receiver easily has 1 degree of play. I know that Aries doesn't think much of the Adjustable Vblock, but I just bought one for shits and giggles.
I haven't zeroed since I installed it. Hope it works.
I've got a Bushnell Elite 4200 6-24x50 on my 10/22. The thing only has 50 MOA of elevation total. I put the EGW 20MOA base on it. With an older barrel and subsonics, I could get to 150yds before it topped off. I got a new threaded barrel and I can only get to 100 before it tops off. POI didn't really seem to shift that bad with suppressor.
That 10/22 of mine has always been bad for barrel droop. Every barrel I've stuffed into that receiver easily has 1 degree of play. I know that Aries doesn't think much of the Adjustable Vblock, but I just bought one for shits and giggles.
I haven't zeroed since I installed it. Hope it works.
Re: 0 moa or 20 moa pic rail for 10/22?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DFOOSKING</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Barrel block on Midway $20
I don't disagree you Aries at all. I've got well over a 1K into mine and it just sits. It too suffers from barrel droop.</div></div>
Disagree or agree with me all you want - one of the reasons that this board is so interesting is that its' a good place for people to share and exchange info and experiences.
Its' really a shame that your rifle "just sits". If the money you've already spent to have the rifle just sit hasn't turned you off, maybe at some point you might send your 10/22 to Randy at CPC (Connecticut Precision Chambering) to have the barrel and receiver mated. It will cost a few bucks, but I highly recommend it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DFOOSKING</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But I have yet see a 10/22 with even the most basic of scopes not sight in at 50 yards.</div></div>
There have been numerous posts here on the Hide' and over at RFC where 10/22 owners with severe barrel droop could not get their 10/22s' to zero at 50 yards because they ran out of elevation.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DFOOSKING</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And if I'm to believe the poster's comment that is only gonna go 100yds then, my advice even tho I said otherwise was based off his parameters. Not coulda woulda... Most ammo even subsonic will get to 100 from 50 in relatively little elavation, even old 1" tube weavers have modest amounts of elevation built in. A high end scope, even better!</div></div>
Whether the OP never shoots beyond 100 yards or not, as I said there are no negatives with going with a canted base, which at the very least will help reduce the amount of elevation he or she needs to dial to zero. Whats the harm in that?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DFOOSKING</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you say one thing and imply another, how can I know? No hate here, just asking... </div></div>
No hate here, but please be specific. Exactly what are you referring to? If I was vague (very unlike me) I'd like to know what I said that was unclear. Thanks.
Keith
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DFOOSKING</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Barrel block on Midway $20
I don't disagree you Aries at all. I've got well over a 1K into mine and it just sits. It too suffers from barrel droop.</div></div>
Disagree or agree with me all you want - one of the reasons that this board is so interesting is that its' a good place for people to share and exchange info and experiences.
Its' really a shame that your rifle "just sits". If the money you've already spent to have the rifle just sit hasn't turned you off, maybe at some point you might send your 10/22 to Randy at CPC (Connecticut Precision Chambering) to have the barrel and receiver mated. It will cost a few bucks, but I highly recommend it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DFOOSKING</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But I have yet see a 10/22 with even the most basic of scopes not sight in at 50 yards.</div></div>
There have been numerous posts here on the Hide' and over at RFC where 10/22 owners with severe barrel droop could not get their 10/22s' to zero at 50 yards because they ran out of elevation.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DFOOSKING</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And if I'm to believe the poster's comment that is only gonna go 100yds then, my advice even tho I said otherwise was based off his parameters. Not coulda woulda... Most ammo even subsonic will get to 100 from 50 in relatively little elavation, even old 1" tube weavers have modest amounts of elevation built in. A high end scope, even better!</div></div>
Whether the OP never shoots beyond 100 yards or not, as I said there are no negatives with going with a canted base, which at the very least will help reduce the amount of elevation he or she needs to dial to zero. Whats the harm in that?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DFOOSKING</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you say one thing and imply another, how can I know? No hate here, just asking... </div></div>
No hate here, but please be specific. Exactly what are you referring to? If I was vague (very unlike me) I'd like to know what I said that was unclear. Thanks.
Keith
Re: 0 moa or 20 moa pic rail for 10/22?
While the 20MOA slope will probably not be absolutely necessary to reach 100yd, what it <span style="font-style: italic">will</span> do is alter the point in the elevation adjustment range where the 100yd zero will occur.
If the scope has a limited amount of adjustment range available, the 100yd zero position may occur at or near the extreme end of the adjustment range.
This can be less ideal, if it results in the kind of binding in the <span style="font-style: italic">windage</span> adjustment range that occurs with some scopes when adjustments end up near their extreme limits.
The ideal zero is the one which occurs closest to the middle of the scope's adjustment ranges, for this reason.
Greg
While the 20MOA slope will probably not be absolutely necessary to reach 100yd, what it <span style="font-style: italic">will</span> do is alter the point in the elevation adjustment range where the 100yd zero will occur.
If the scope has a limited amount of adjustment range available, the 100yd zero position may occur at or near the extreme end of the adjustment range.
This can be less ideal, if it results in the kind of binding in the <span style="font-style: italic">windage</span> adjustment range that occurs with some scopes when adjustments end up near their extreme limits.
The ideal zero is the one which occurs closest to the middle of the scope's adjustment ranges, for this reason.
Greg
Re: 0 moa or 20 moa pic rail for 10/22?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">While the 20MOA slope will probably not be absolutely necessary to reach 100yd, what it <span style="font-style: italic">will</span> do is alter the point in the elevation adjustment range where the 100yd zero will occur.</div></div>
Exactly. The use of a canted rail/base has the effect of "borrowing" travel from the bottom end of the adjustment range and shifting that borrowed travel to the top of the adjustment range.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If the scope has a limited amount of adjustment range available, the 100yd zero position may occur at or near the extreme end of the adjustment range.
This can be less ideal, if it results in the kind of binding in the <span style="font-style: italic">windage</span> adjustment range that occurs with some scopes when adjustments end up near their extreme limits.</div></div>
Right-on again. If present - "binding" can effect the accuracy and repeatability (tracking) of both the Elevation and Windage adjustments.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The ideal zero is the one which occurs closest to the middle of the scope's adjustment ranges, for this reason.</div></div>
Yup.
Excellent post Greg. Thanks for articulating your points (and mine) clearly and concisely. Something else I didn't mention because I was trying to avoid getting too technical:
However unlikely, <span style="font-style: italic">(due to 10/22 barrel droop)</span> - if <span style="font-style: italic">signal5</span> (the OP) only uses 10 MOA to get to 100 yards, the Leupold Rifleman 3-9X40 he/she will be mounting will theorietically be 10 MOA out-of-center. Thats not bad, but 10 MOA is approximately 36% of the claimed 28 MOA of "UP" travel Leupold specs for that scope. (Leupold claims 56 MOA total travel, and since Leupold scopes are optically centered thats' 28 MOA each direction). And I really think that <span style="font-style: italic">signal5</span> will use more than 10 MOA to get to 100 yards though.
That said, because the 20 MOA rail/base has the effect of raising the POI "UP" by 20 MOA, the scope will need to be adjusted 10 MOA "DOWN" to zero, leaving a theorietical 18 MOA of "DOWN". I think that there would actually be more "DOWN" remaining than this, as I think that <span style="font-style: italic">signal5</span> will need to use more than 10 MOA of "UP" to zero anyway.
The bottom line is that onced zeroed, the erector will be out-of-center - how much is dependent upon how much adjustment is need to accomplish his zero and the range(s) he/she will shoot at. Once again, barrel droop plays a part here.
Either way, <span style="font-style: italic">personally</span>, I think it makes more sense to use a canted rail/base and have additional elevation travel, especially since <span style="font-style: italic">quality</span> canted rails/bases are usually the same price as flat (non-canted) rails.
Keith
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">While the 20MOA slope will probably not be absolutely necessary to reach 100yd, what it <span style="font-style: italic">will</span> do is alter the point in the elevation adjustment range where the 100yd zero will occur.</div></div>
Exactly. The use of a canted rail/base has the effect of "borrowing" travel from the bottom end of the adjustment range and shifting that borrowed travel to the top of the adjustment range.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If the scope has a limited amount of adjustment range available, the 100yd zero position may occur at or near the extreme end of the adjustment range.
This can be less ideal, if it results in the kind of binding in the <span style="font-style: italic">windage</span> adjustment range that occurs with some scopes when adjustments end up near their extreme limits.</div></div>
Right-on again. If present - "binding" can effect the accuracy and repeatability (tracking) of both the Elevation and Windage adjustments.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The ideal zero is the one which occurs closest to the middle of the scope's adjustment ranges, for this reason.</div></div>
Yup.
Excellent post Greg. Thanks for articulating your points (and mine) clearly and concisely. Something else I didn't mention because I was trying to avoid getting too technical:
However unlikely, <span style="font-style: italic">(due to 10/22 barrel droop)</span> - if <span style="font-style: italic">signal5</span> (the OP) only uses 10 MOA to get to 100 yards, the Leupold Rifleman 3-9X40 he/she will be mounting will theorietically be 10 MOA out-of-center. Thats not bad, but 10 MOA is approximately 36% of the claimed 28 MOA of "UP" travel Leupold specs for that scope. (Leupold claims 56 MOA total travel, and since Leupold scopes are optically centered thats' 28 MOA each direction). And I really think that <span style="font-style: italic">signal5</span> will use more than 10 MOA to get to 100 yards though.
That said, because the 20 MOA rail/base has the effect of raising the POI "UP" by 20 MOA, the scope will need to be adjusted 10 MOA "DOWN" to zero, leaving a theorietical 18 MOA of "DOWN". I think that there would actually be more "DOWN" remaining than this, as I think that <span style="font-style: italic">signal5</span> will need to use more than 10 MOA of "UP" to zero anyway.
The bottom line is that onced zeroed, the erector will be out-of-center - how much is dependent upon how much adjustment is need to accomplish his zero and the range(s) he/she will shoot at. Once again, barrel droop plays a part here.
Either way, <span style="font-style: italic">personally</span>, I think it makes more sense to use a canted rail/base and have additional elevation travel, especially since <span style="font-style: italic">quality</span> canted rails/bases are usually the same price as flat (non-canted) rails.
Keith
Re: 0 moa or 20 moa pic rail for 10/22?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Topstrap</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just posted this link on the other 22 thread and in case none of you have seen it in action watch the video he has on his website. Problems solved for long range shooting at even extreme distances.
With this mount you can get away with a cheaper scope since adjustment within the scope are nearly eliminated and exact returns to setting for different distances are perfect.
Not cheap but with the money saved on a less expensive scope this is a very viable solution.
http://vgmount.com/
Topstrap </div></div>
Thanks for posting that. It may interest some people, but I'll stick with conventional bases and maintain my current level of optics.
Keith
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Topstrap</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just posted this link on the other 22 thread and in case none of you have seen it in action watch the video he has on his website. Problems solved for long range shooting at even extreme distances.
With this mount you can get away with a cheaper scope since adjustment within the scope are nearly eliminated and exact returns to setting for different distances are perfect.
Not cheap but with the money saved on a less expensive scope this is a very viable solution.
http://vgmount.com/
Topstrap </div></div>
Thanks for posting that. It may interest some people, but I'll stick with conventional bases and maintain my current level of optics.
Keith
Re: 0 moa or 20 moa pic rail for 10/22?
thanks for all the info. I ordered a 20 moa mount from EGW. Then they let me know they are back ordered. no big deal though cuz I dont have any of the other parts for this gun. Thanks everyone!
thanks for all the info. I ordered a 20 moa mount from EGW. Then they let me know they are back ordered. no big deal though cuz I dont have any of the other parts for this gun. Thanks everyone!
Re: 0 moa or 20 moa pic rail for 10/22?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: signal5</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> thanks for all the info. I ordered a 20 moa mount from EGW. Then they let me know they are back ordered. no big deal though cuz I dont have any of the other parts for this gun. Thanks everyone! </div></div>
Wise decision choosing the 20 MOA over a flat base - that shouldn't even be a question on a 10/22. Have fun building-up your rifle and don't forget to follow-up after a range session or two.
Keith
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: signal5</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> thanks for all the info. I ordered a 20 moa mount from EGW. Then they let me know they are back ordered. no big deal though cuz I dont have any of the other parts for this gun. Thanks everyone! </div></div>
Wise decision choosing the 20 MOA over a flat base - that shouldn't even be a question on a 10/22. Have fun building-up your rifle and don't forget to follow-up after a range session or two.
Keith
Re: 0 moa or 20 moa pic rail for 10/22?
What you may find when you mount the 20MOA rail is that with your particular scope, there's still quite a bit of 'unusable' elevation adjustment below your close-distance zero. You can actually get that back by custom shim/bedding the scope base.
I center my windage, bottom my elevation, then raise it 3-5MOA above the bottom. I mount the scope, and from that point, do not fiddle with the adjustments. I do my re-zeroing using shims.
I establish the zero near, but not at, the bottom of the elevation range to ensure an unbound windage adjustment range. Because it is near the end of the elevation range, the windage range will be limited, but also, since it's at the closest practical shootng distance, windage adjustment needs are smaller.
This practice allows longer zeros to be establishe deeper into the elevation adjustment range, allowing more windage adjustment limit out there further, where it's more significantly needed.
I use cut pieces of aluminum beverage cans as shims.
To raise my POI, I add a shim at a time under the extreme rear edge, and tighten the base fairly tight until I'm impacting within an inch or less, on average, of my POA's height at 50yd. Close as I can get. Better a smidge more shim than less.
If there's some windage error, I loosen the base screws and apply some 'twist-bias', moving the front of the base toward the POI, and the rear opposite, tightening the base screws while doing this.
You may not be able to get rid of all the windage error, but this is the best you can do without modifying the base. Additional adjustment can be effected using Burris Signature rings and replaceable/tuneable bushings. 'Zee'-type is intended for Weaver-style bases.
Now remove the base and shims, and apply a reliable coating of release agent to the receiver where and around where the base covers it.
Mix up some epoxy, nothing faster than a 60 minute cure. Apply this epoxy to the bottom of the base, thicker in the rear, and see if you can leave some area dry around the mounting screw holes.
Hold the base above the receiver, insert the front screw, and push down on the screw with the screwdriver.
Bring the base down, holding the base out of contact, and engage the front screw about a turn, while continuing to hold the base clear.
Still holding the base clear, insert and engage the rear screw for about a turn as well.
Replace the shim(s) under the extreme rear edge of the base, and tighten the screws flush and gently firm, front first.
While doing the final tightening, reapply the same 'twist bias' you had applied earlier, tightening the screws just tight enough to keep it from creeping free.
Be absolutely certain not to tighten the screws enough to establish any flex or stress in the mounting; let the epoxy establish the new contact relationship.
Any ooze should be immediately wiped, and finish up with a pad soaked in acetone nail polish remover.
Several hours later, when the epoxy is definitely cured, undo the screws, remove the shims, and if you wish (it's optional), separate the base and remove the release agent. I use Vinyl Acetate release agent, and cleanup can be performed with plain old rubbing alcohol.
Sometimes the underside of the base will be so smooth, the epoxy will pop off when you separate it from the receiver. This is why I say that separating is optional. If this occurs, just remove and reapply the epoxy the same way, and omit the separation step. If absolutely necessary, the shims can be left in place, but this may be unsightly; so if you redo the expoxy, this time install them flush with the base's rear edge.
When reassembling, reapply the same 'twist bias', and ensure that the metal contact area has a light application of preservative oil, etc., to to resist corrosion.
This process customizes the base's slope to take maximum advantage of the scope's inherent adjustment range. There is really no reason why all your bases can't be custom sloped in this manner.
Greg
What you may find when you mount the 20MOA rail is that with your particular scope, there's still quite a bit of 'unusable' elevation adjustment below your close-distance zero. You can actually get that back by custom shim/bedding the scope base.
I center my windage, bottom my elevation, then raise it 3-5MOA above the bottom. I mount the scope, and from that point, do not fiddle with the adjustments. I do my re-zeroing using shims.
I establish the zero near, but not at, the bottom of the elevation range to ensure an unbound windage adjustment range. Because it is near the end of the elevation range, the windage range will be limited, but also, since it's at the closest practical shootng distance, windage adjustment needs are smaller.
This practice allows longer zeros to be establishe deeper into the elevation adjustment range, allowing more windage adjustment limit out there further, where it's more significantly needed.
I use cut pieces of aluminum beverage cans as shims.
To raise my POI, I add a shim at a time under the extreme rear edge, and tighten the base fairly tight until I'm impacting within an inch or less, on average, of my POA's height at 50yd. Close as I can get. Better a smidge more shim than less.
If there's some windage error, I loosen the base screws and apply some 'twist-bias', moving the front of the base toward the POI, and the rear opposite, tightening the base screws while doing this.
You may not be able to get rid of all the windage error, but this is the best you can do without modifying the base. Additional adjustment can be effected using Burris Signature rings and replaceable/tuneable bushings. 'Zee'-type is intended for Weaver-style bases.
Now remove the base and shims, and apply a reliable coating of release agent to the receiver where and around where the base covers it.
Mix up some epoxy, nothing faster than a 60 minute cure. Apply this epoxy to the bottom of the base, thicker in the rear, and see if you can leave some area dry around the mounting screw holes.
Hold the base above the receiver, insert the front screw, and push down on the screw with the screwdriver.
Bring the base down, holding the base out of contact, and engage the front screw about a turn, while continuing to hold the base clear.
Still holding the base clear, insert and engage the rear screw for about a turn as well.
Replace the shim(s) under the extreme rear edge of the base, and tighten the screws flush and gently firm, front first.
While doing the final tightening, reapply the same 'twist bias' you had applied earlier, tightening the screws just tight enough to keep it from creeping free.
Be absolutely certain not to tighten the screws enough to establish any flex or stress in the mounting; let the epoxy establish the new contact relationship.
Any ooze should be immediately wiped, and finish up with a pad soaked in acetone nail polish remover.
Several hours later, when the epoxy is definitely cured, undo the screws, remove the shims, and if you wish (it's optional), separate the base and remove the release agent. I use Vinyl Acetate release agent, and cleanup can be performed with plain old rubbing alcohol.
Sometimes the underside of the base will be so smooth, the epoxy will pop off when you separate it from the receiver. This is why I say that separating is optional. If this occurs, just remove and reapply the epoxy the same way, and omit the separation step. If absolutely necessary, the shims can be left in place, but this may be unsightly; so if you redo the expoxy, this time install them flush with the base's rear edge.
When reassembling, reapply the same 'twist bias', and ensure that the metal contact area has a light application of preservative oil, etc., to to resist corrosion.
This process customizes the base's slope to take maximum advantage of the scope's inherent adjustment range. There is really no reason why all your bases can't be custom sloped in this manner.
Greg
