Precision P/S Diopter System for long range. Fully adjustable Anschutz front Aperture system.
Requires a 190gr VLD projectile.
Requires a 190gr VLD projectile.
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1,000 yard Diopter System
- Thread starter zfk55sr
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sfk55sr,Precision P/S Diopter System for long range. Fully adjustable Anschutz front Aperture system.
Requires a 190gr VLD projectile.
What 190 gr. projectile do you use for long range. IME, it's pretty hard to beat the Swiss 174 gr. RUAG....Just sayin'
We've developed the load data to outperform the GP11 sometime in the early 80's when the first Berger 175VLDs came out.
We do have a lot of GP11 here at the SP armoury, but we reserve it for demo purposes only. All of the brass we use here is the RUAG Swiss National Match brass. There's a story behind that and I'll relate it at some point, but the Guiness World's Record for open sight shooting is held by a k31 for the 1,000, 1,500 and 2,300 yard. The projectile is a 190gr. Virtually all of our load data testing is done with RUAG Boxer brass, RE17 powder and the 175gr VLD projectiles. I have a bit of a history with RUAG that I'll explain sometime.
Typically I post from my archives, and I should explain. My wrists and hands are shot, so typing is difficult for me and I usually don't last for more than a few paragraphs. Back with more on this later.
P
We do have a lot of GP11 here at the SP armoury, but we reserve it for demo purposes only. All of the brass we use here is the RUAG Swiss National Match brass. There's a story behind that and I'll relate it at some point, but the Guiness World's Record for open sight shooting is held by a k31 for the 1,000, 1,500 and 2,300 yard. The projectile is a 190gr. Virtually all of our load data testing is done with RUAG Boxer brass, RE17 powder and the 175gr VLD projectiles. I have a bit of a history with RUAG that I'll explain sometime.
Typically I post from my archives, and I should explain. My wrists and hands are shot, so typing is difficult for me and I usually don't last for more than a few paragraphs. Back with more on this later.
P
RUAG Boxer Swiss National Match brass......... the finest on the planet.
Ok. So here's how the American reloading part of it began for the k31, the G11's, the zfk55 and the Pe57. I don't remember the year,
sometime in the 90's but a lot of shooters on the various Swiss Forums and elsewhere will remember better than I do because they
bought it from me.......... My memory has gotten terrible......We brought in some 10,000 Ruag Swiss National Match Brass, but before that,
I called Grafs and three other outfits asking if they'd like to front this buy and handle it themselves. "What? 7.5x what? For what rifles?
never heard of them"..... So....... we brought it in.
Within two weeks the whole bunch was gone. I called Grafs again. "What?!? You sold it all already?" Yep...... and I'm about to bring in
another 50,000 of the same brass, and another 150,000 as soon as that's gone. I expect about a month. "Wait, wait wait! Do you want us
to handle that?" I put them in direct touch with Ruag in Bern, and......... that's how it all began for US reloaders. I have an awful lot of
Norma 7.5x55 brass here, but if you really do a lot of reloading, you already know how soft Norma brass is.
I can't remember how much RUAG brass we have, but if you anneal every 5 cycles, you're going to be working on that first 200 brass for
an awfully long time. I have yet to have any RUAG brass fail on me, and you can guess how many rounds I've sent down range here over
the past 18 or 20 years since we did that first import............ That incredible boxer brass was cut off for export maybe 12 years ago when
RUAG began their Commercial Loads for sales to Europe. Can't remember for sure , but that's when Graf's began working with PRVI
Partisan for brass and loaded cartridges and our own 18 year association with Graf's began.
Now the last reserves run of GP11 in 1995 are nearly gone, but RUAG began a new run two years ago. It's still that great Swiss National
Match brass and still labeled GP11, but it's also still Berdan primed. The wax ring is gone since long term storage is no longer
necessary, and the crimp is also gone. The last firearm in the Swiss Army requiring the crimp is the MG42, and that will very soon be
replaced by the FN Minimi, so........ no crimp required for the 7.5x55 caliber with all the select mode rifles no longer in service.
Ok. So here's how the American reloading part of it began for the k31, the G11's, the zfk55 and the Pe57. I don't remember the year,
sometime in the 90's but a lot of shooters on the various Swiss Forums and elsewhere will remember better than I do because they
bought it from me.......... My memory has gotten terrible......We brought in some 10,000 Ruag Swiss National Match Brass, but before that,
I called Grafs and three other outfits asking if they'd like to front this buy and handle it themselves. "What? 7.5x what? For what rifles?
never heard of them"..... So....... we brought it in.
Within two weeks the whole bunch was gone. I called Grafs again. "What?!? You sold it all already?" Yep...... and I'm about to bring in
another 50,000 of the same brass, and another 150,000 as soon as that's gone. I expect about a month. "Wait, wait wait! Do you want us
to handle that?" I put them in direct touch with Ruag in Bern, and......... that's how it all began for US reloaders. I have an awful lot of
Norma 7.5x55 brass here, but if you really do a lot of reloading, you already know how soft Norma brass is.
I can't remember how much RUAG brass we have, but if you anneal every 5 cycles, you're going to be working on that first 200 brass for
an awfully long time. I have yet to have any RUAG brass fail on me, and you can guess how many rounds I've sent down range here over
the past 18 or 20 years since we did that first import............ That incredible boxer brass was cut off for export maybe 12 years ago when
RUAG began their Commercial Loads for sales to Europe. Can't remember for sure , but that's when Graf's began working with PRVI
Partisan for brass and loaded cartridges and our own 18 year association with Graf's began.
Now the last reserves run of GP11 in 1995 are nearly gone, but RUAG began a new run two years ago. It's still that great Swiss National
Match brass and still labeled GP11, but it's also still Berdan primed. The wax ring is gone since long term storage is no longer
necessary, and the crimp is also gone. The last firearm in the Swiss Army requiring the crimp is the MG42, and that will very soon be
replaced by the FN Minimi, so........ no crimp required for the 7.5x55 caliber with all the select mode rifles no longer in service.
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I’ve thought about biting the bullet and ordering one of your sights... The problem is I prefer to shoot my milsurp rifles stock and I find it hard to justify dropping the $300 on a diopter sight that won’t see much use.
Is there a photo or web link missing?Precision P/S Diopter System for long range. Fully adjustable Anschutz front Aperture system.
Requires a 190gr VLD projectile.
Sorry. These are the 1,000 yard systems for both the k31 and the 5 G11 Series of rifles. Everything is pictured at
www.swissproductsusa.com
The front sights are threaded both ends for the Anschutz Adjustable Aperture and on the front for the Gehmann 1.75 power optic lens.
This is the prototype still "in the white". Production models are all blued
This is the k31 system.
www.swissproductsusa.com
The front sights are threaded both ends for the Anschutz Adjustable Aperture and on the front for the Gehmann 1.75 power optic lens.
This is the prototype still "in the white". Production models are all blued
This is the k31 system.
After 8 years of submissions, in 2012 we finally achieved approval from the Swiss SSV for our sights to be used in any and all Swiss sanctioned competition world wide.
Those sights are typically used in competition, but it's fun to use them alongside a state of the art rifle at the range. You'd be surprised at the results!
In order for those k31s to be manufactured today, you'd have to come up with an easy $1,800.oo for a duplicate, but even then you'd not find anyone willing to produce a barrel and receiver with a RH factor of 38.
RUAG Boxer Swiss National Match brass......... the finest on the planet.
Ok. So here's how the American reloading part of it began for the k31, the G11's, the zfk55 and the Pe57. I don't remember the year,
sometime in the 90's but a lot of shooters on the various Swiss Forums and elsewhere will remember better than I do because they
bought it from me.......... My memory has gotten terrible......We brought in some 10,000 Ruag Swiss National Match Brass, but before that,
I called Grafs and three other outfits asking if they'd like to front this buy and handle it themselves. "What? 7.5x what? For what rifles?
never heard of them"..... So....... we brought it in.
Within two weeks the whole bunch was gone. I called Grafs again. "What?!? You sold it all already?" Yep...... and I'm about to bring in
another 50,000 of the same brass, and another 150,000 as soon as that's gone. I expect about a month. "Wait, wait wait! Do you want us
to handle that?" I put them in direct touch with Ruag in Bern, and......... that's how it all began for US reloaders. I have an awful lot of
Norma 7.5x55 brass here, but if you really do a lot of reloading, you already know how soft Norma brass is.
I can't remember how much RUAG brass we have, but if you anneal every 5 cycles, you're going to be working on that first 200 brass for
an awfully long time. I have yet to have any RUAG brass fail on me, and you can guess how many rounds I've sent down range here over
the past 18 or 20 years since we did that first import............ That incredible boxer brass was cut off for export maybe 12 years ago when
RUAG began their Commercial Loads for sales to Europe. Can't remember for sure , but that's when Graf's began working with PRVI
Partisan for brass and loaded cartridges and our own 18 year association with Graf's began.
Now the last reserves run of GP11 in 1995 are nearly gone, but RUAG began a new run two years ago. It's still that great Swiss National
Match brass and still labeled GP11, but it's also still Berdan primed. The wax ring is gone since long term storage is no longer
necessary, and the crimp is also gone. The last firearm in the Swiss Army requiring the crimp is the MG42, and that will very soon be
replaced by the FN Minimi, so........ no crimp required for the 7.5x55 caliber with all the select mode rifles no longer in service.
I've always wondered what it would be like to load boxer Swiss 7.5 It was a PITA to do it with Berdan.added: I need to clarify that. I have PPU brass that I think predates this brass. It's not really high quality and long lasting, but I can get good accuracy out of it.
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Brother
I always enjoy your posts. I'm still learning. So much data to wrap my mind around.
Be safe
I always enjoy your posts. I'm still learning. So much data to wrap my mind around.
Be safe
Shit, that's cheap. A set of match sights for an NRA rifle is $1000.
OP,
The sliding eye relief of the rear sight is brilliant. Very good looking system. What size is the front apperature? 22 or 30mm?
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I ordered the Swiss Products Diopter set a couple weeks ago, the precision is amazing and an absolute value right now on sale. I placed them on my K-31 but have yet to shoot / dial it in. I had two cases of GP-11 but because I can't reload it and its hard to find at a good price, I sold each case on GB and purchased 500 new Norma brass at .43 cents per from Buffalo arms to reload. I ordered Redding Swiss 7.5x55 Delux dies and now need to find some bullets to try? I was considering loading up some 175 SMK's with some IMR 4895 or Varget? Any advice would be appreciated.....,I'm not interested beyond 5-600 yards with the Diopters, would like to try a few Rattle Battles.
TKO, I can give you links to my own archives, but sending members to another board is not usually too cool. I'll ask the mods here about posting the long range load data I've worked on since I began back in 1959. I'm just not sure if that is allowed here.
For the past 10 years we've worked exclusively with the SMK175's, the Berger175VLD and the Hornady 175's and 190 ELD's.
The single most effective powder we use for long range shooting is RE17. It's distributed by Alliant and is Mfg'd in Switzerland at the same facility that has produced powder for the GP11 since the late 1800's. It's cold weather/hot weather functions are virtually the same across the temperature spectrum.
Second closest in performance is 4064, but "all roads lead to Rome". A fair number of recipes work for this caliber, but my own end results are the work of some 55 years. Yours may perform equally as well just as our case-prep is something upon which we base successful groups at long range.
Your own methods are just as valid as long as the end result is repeatable at range with your proven load.
A proven load for us is 20 targets at 100 yards, 10 round each within 1" or (usually) better. No "flyers", no deviation in grouping from the first target to the 20th target and a SD factor of no more than 25.
I'll contact the mod for this forum later this morning and ask about posting relevant subject matter.
I should have added....... ALL of our load data gathering is done from a free standing rest that receives the entire rifle, allows for natural recoil and is both rough and fine windage and elevation adjustable. We take the human equation out of the mix altogether.
So I see there is a reloading section here, but for long range shooting of the Swiss Cartridge, it going to take a special reading section.
My Son just pointed out that the FAQ section on www.swissproductsusa.com already has everything needed. I had composed all of it and promptly forgot about it. My kids call it OGS.......... OldGuySyndrome.
Just read the FAQ headliners and you'll have a condensation of 50 years or reloading with different powders and projectile profiles among other things pertaining to these rifles. The Swiss didn't make a stepped rear sight out to 1,500 meters for nothing.
The only thing you won't see is our current treatment of projectiles called ICP's. All of that will be there and available by next week. If you truly want to do long range with the Swiss Rifles, then that will give you what you'll need.
My Son just pointed out that the FAQ section on www.swissproductsusa.com already has everything needed. I had composed all of it and promptly forgot about it. My kids call it OGS.......... OldGuySyndrome.
Just read the FAQ headliners and you'll have a condensation of 50 years or reloading with different powders and projectile profiles among other things pertaining to these rifles. The Swiss didn't make a stepped rear sight out to 1,500 meters for nothing.
The only thing you won't see is our current treatment of projectiles called ICP's. All of that will be there and available by next week. If you truly want to do long range with the Swiss Rifles, then that will give you what you'll need.
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Thanks for the input, w/ 55 years of load testing, I will grab some RE17. Looking at your original post, what do you mean by "requires a 190 VLD projectile", are you referring to the 190 VLD purely from a long distance aspect or something else? Also, Which front aperature insert do you prefer, I'm not a big fan of the one that came with my set, a little too thick for me. I looked on the SwissProducts and didn't see one recipe with RE17, lots of others but no RE17, maybe I over looked it? Anyway, I know your wrists bother you so reply as much or as little as you like, I understand. Its nice to have someone on here with your experience. Thanks
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The 190gr is the one used in the Guiness long distance record for the k31. My son uses that one as well.
The reason you see nothing on RE17 is that my data is based purely on using ICP's, and unless you do the same process, the powder charge would be too high for your rifle for repeatable accuracy. Certainly not high enough to be dangerous, but inaccurate.
I can give you the starting point for sure, but not the accuracy load we use (yet). I intend to post the method for using ICP's before long, and when I get the time (good typing day) I'll be updating the logged information on the website FAQ's. We have log books in the armoury for each Swiss rifle with serial numbers and all chrono'd rounds fired through that rifle with the load data tested.
If you work with a 175 SMK you'll begin with 43gr of RE17. You'll get to the accuracy load rather quickly, but do go up in 1/10th gr increments. Your case prep is going to be a big deal and, of course, neck tension. Once you show a MV around 2400 fps you'll be getting close to optimum. A SD factor of 30 max is getting close. The 168 SMK is also a good one to work with.
Please bear in mind that we depend heavily on the case prep because even with the correct projectile and charge, that case and neck tension dictate mediochre to great results. Bear in mind that Swiss rifles definitely prefer that the projectile be around 2 to 3 thousandths of the ogive off the lands.
I'm trying to keep all of this methodology away from the Benchrest reloading process and in the realm of us regular reloaders, but the use of a correct bushing is important for neck tension being equal with every stroke of the press.
None of it is rocket science and anyone in the world can certainly handle this process and be shooting and repeatedly ringing those gongs waaayy out there.
Apertures. We'll be carrying the full selections before long but in the meantime...... https://www.lymanproducts.com/brand...ront-sights/series-20-mjt-ljt-insert-set.html
Need a break. I have a bit more to say about RE17.
The reason you see nothing on RE17 is that my data is based purely on using ICP's, and unless you do the same process, the powder charge would be too high for your rifle for repeatable accuracy. Certainly not high enough to be dangerous, but inaccurate.
I can give you the starting point for sure, but not the accuracy load we use (yet). I intend to post the method for using ICP's before long, and when I get the time (good typing day) I'll be updating the logged information on the website FAQ's. We have log books in the armoury for each Swiss rifle with serial numbers and all chrono'd rounds fired through that rifle with the load data tested.
If you work with a 175 SMK you'll begin with 43gr of RE17. You'll get to the accuracy load rather quickly, but do go up in 1/10th gr increments. Your case prep is going to be a big deal and, of course, neck tension. Once you show a MV around 2400 fps you'll be getting close to optimum. A SD factor of 30 max is getting close. The 168 SMK is also a good one to work with.
Please bear in mind that we depend heavily on the case prep because even with the correct projectile and charge, that case and neck tension dictate mediochre to great results. Bear in mind that Swiss rifles definitely prefer that the projectile be around 2 to 3 thousandths of the ogive off the lands.
I'm trying to keep all of this methodology away from the Benchrest reloading process and in the realm of us regular reloaders, but the use of a correct bushing is important for neck tension being equal with every stroke of the press.
None of it is rocket science and anyone in the world can certainly handle this process and be shooting and repeatedly ringing those gongs waaayy out there.
Apertures. We'll be carrying the full selections before long but in the meantime...... https://www.lymanproducts.com/brand...ront-sights/series-20-mjt-ljt-insert-set.html
Need a break. I have a bit more to say about RE17.
Thanks, thats excellent information!! You mention neck tension and how important it is, I couldn't find any dies that offerd a bushing for the Swiss 7.5X55 so I bought the Redding Delux Die set. I pulled the expander ball out of the FL die and it measured .306 so I figure it giving me .002 of neck tension, sound good to you?? Additionally, I measured my Norma brass case length and it was exactly to spec, or what you recommend on your FAQ info at 2.179, so I won't need to trim my brass. I will mildly debur and champher the brass before loading. If some of the necks are bent, I may also run them through the mandrel. If you had one bullet to pick for 600 yards and under, what would it be? I plan on buying 500 bullets and going with it? I will not be shooting much off a bench.
My day is about done. 3:30 am comes early. Couple of quick notes.
The SMK 175 has been the winningest projectile at Camp Perry for more years than I can remember. New projectile technology is changing that somewhat, but it's a great projectile still.
If I had not been perceptive enough to buy some 5,000 Berger VLDs when the came out in 198-something, I'd not have been able to afford them today. Back then they were $17.oo a box. Now they're around $42.00 a box, and that's the reason we can still use Bergers here. Go with the Sierra 175's. They're a great bullet.
Neck tension........... Well, a set of Redding Comp dies with Bushings is going to cost you right at $585.00......... because...... they're not a line item. That is the cost for those dies as a custom mfg. set. Don't ask how I know, but your approach should work. Ball expanders come in all different sizes.
One important thing about neck tension that's seldom discussed is the Case TTL. So the book says TTL 2.182. "Cool! All of my cases are shorter than that. No need to trim!" *wrong* The factual length of the neck will affect how long the release takes, and the longer the neck, the longer the dwell time in transition. That simple thing will affect your MV factor. If you have varying spreads of 25, then 76, then 42......... that means that each case neck release might be different and that also changes chamber pressures. Varying chamber pressures affect POI downrange. Trim ALL of your cases, Virgin or not to the exact same length.
Think of it like taking a 4' length of 2" PVC pipe. Put two guys on one end of it apply an equal grip. You take the other end and pull until slides out of their grip. Now put four guys on the other end with equal grips, and pull. Get the idea?
Sounds like a very minor thing, doesn't it. Your targets out at 500 yards will disagree with you. Seemingly very minor things make big differences the further out you get.
We'll continue tomorrow.
Schlaf gut, St.Marie Kinder. Ich hab' euch lieb.
The SMK 175 has been the winningest projectile at Camp Perry for more years than I can remember. New projectile technology is changing that somewhat, but it's a great projectile still.
If I had not been perceptive enough to buy some 5,000 Berger VLDs when the came out in 198-something, I'd not have been able to afford them today. Back then they were $17.oo a box. Now they're around $42.00 a box, and that's the reason we can still use Bergers here. Go with the Sierra 175's. They're a great bullet.
Neck tension........... Well, a set of Redding Comp dies with Bushings is going to cost you right at $585.00......... because...... they're not a line item. That is the cost for those dies as a custom mfg. set. Don't ask how I know, but your approach should work. Ball expanders come in all different sizes.
One important thing about neck tension that's seldom discussed is the Case TTL. So the book says TTL 2.182. "Cool! All of my cases are shorter than that. No need to trim!" *wrong* The factual length of the neck will affect how long the release takes, and the longer the neck, the longer the dwell time in transition. That simple thing will affect your MV factor. If you have varying spreads of 25, then 76, then 42......... that means that each case neck release might be different and that also changes chamber pressures. Varying chamber pressures affect POI downrange. Trim ALL of your cases, Virgin or not to the exact same length.
Think of it like taking a 4' length of 2" PVC pipe. Put two guys on one end of it apply an equal grip. You take the other end and pull until slides out of their grip. Now put four guys on the other end with equal grips, and pull. Get the idea?
Sounds like a very minor thing, doesn't it. Your targets out at 500 yards will disagree with you. Seemingly very minor things make big differences the further out you get.
We'll continue tomorrow.
Schlaf gut, St.Marie Kinder. Ich hab' euch lieb.
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Thank You for sharing your knowledge, I will get the 175 SMK's and the RE17 ordered and start uniforming my brass.
Very cool. FYI you could mount the front with serrations on the riser and the base block and have adjustability for other yard lines. Also, available 19mm front lenses are notorious for not being cut on the optical center and causing POI shifts when adding/removing the lens or changing powers.
Nice read. I enjoy information in a "keep it simple, but thorough" presentation. You are spot on, regarding how important the case consistency is! my 30-06 would show a 1 grain case weight change a 1000yards target. weight separate cases and verticle spread really settled down, clearly showing improved velocity consistency. Different rifle and cartridge, but it shows attention to detail is valid. Thank you for sharing sirs!
Thank you, James. Tomorrow will be a better day for me to continue, but...........
NineHotel. I'm not understanding what you mean as concerns the front sight.
NineHotel. I'm not understanding what you mean as concerns the front sight.
Will take the G11 out tomorrow. Only factory ammo available was Herter’s/PPU 165gr BTSP. At least I can function check. Good news is the shop also had some R17 which I never use for .308. Picked some up. I have quite a supply of the Remington 165gr PSPCL you mention, also a large quantity of the 175SMK which is what I feed the .308. Dies and cases next week, along with your sight if things go well tomorrow on the short range. The bore is spectacular for a 102 year old gun. Gun is a #419XXX which appears to be 1916-ish. A tag was under the stock from a gent in Zurich.
Again, thank you much for the insight.
Again, thank you much for the insight.
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Eicas, we don't use RE17 for our .308's either. RE15 is a slightly hotter powder with the correct burn rate for .308's and we use it exclusively for that caliber.
That also means that most of the Kegs you see upper left don't get much use these days. LOL
NineHotel, our Diopter elevation adjustment is 1/4moa all the way out to 1,000+ yards using the issue front sight. If you want to go further, then we have our EAS *elevation adjustable sight* that will get you to 2,000.
This can be used to replace the front sight that comes with the Type P/S Diopter system. It's also a 1/4moa click.
We made this one so that the old model Type P and PII can be upgraded to the 1,000 yard range.
That also means that most of the Kegs you see upper left don't get much use these days. LOL
NineHotel, our Diopter elevation adjustment is 1/4moa all the way out to 1,000+ yards using the issue front sight. If you want to go further, then we have our EAS *elevation adjustable sight* that will get you to 2,000.
This can be used to replace the front sight that comes with the Type P/S Diopter system. It's also a 1/4moa click.
We made this one so that the old model Type P and PII can be upgraded to the 1,000 yard range.
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This is the reloading room at Swiss Products. I think there are 5 or 6 presses. Can't remember, but the one most used for accuracy and long distance shooting is the Forster.
My Grandson during his large caliber pistol reloading test. He passed and got his first revolver, a .38+p
My Grandson during his large caliber pistol reloading test. He passed and got his first revolver, a .38+p
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Well that was a hoot and a big success! Off-the-porch 100yd range. A couple rounds for functional checks and initial case inspection, then it was on to the steel. No issues making a palm sized group on the plate without much even trying. Last 6 were onto paper to see how it did. A tad under 3”. Not bad since I was sitting on a wet deck, not the best rest, and 56yr old eyes. Next step is to do some case measuring, some throat measuring and order that diopter sight! I’ll give you guys a ring next week to assure I got all the proper bits ordered up.
I have a .308 and a .300 that are my stress relief. Enjoy the optics and precision that goes along with it. Dinging steel way out there with iron sights is next on my list.
I have a .308 and a .300 that are my stress relief. Enjoy the optics and precision that goes along with it. Dinging steel way out there with iron sights is next on my list.
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Well, get in the %&#@) prone with a couple sandbags under the front and a good Tab rear bag. Lay a blankie down first so's you don't freeze to the deck and then have a go at it.
Still nice shootin'!
Lol. Yea, turning into a wuss as I age. Come to think of it, I do have some moving blakets stashed in the back of the truck. ? I got all those goodies for the scoped guns. Just didnt bring them along. Hell, I wasnt even sure I was going to find any ammo on the drive north. It was a satisfactory go IMHO. Detail strip and cleaning, then get serious with it. Its a wonderful little rifle.
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Kind of hard to call the wife/friend/kids/etc. when you get frozen to the deck. "I've frozen to my deck and I can't get up."
I had just removed a good 2 1/2-3’ of ice and snow off that deck so I could plop my aged @$$ on there and shoot. Hadn’t been up there since before the Holidays. The wife would have just shook her head and gone about her business... Did I mention I had to snowshoe the plates and target stand out there too? Uphill. Both ways.
Anxious to nail down a load for this. I think it will work quite nice.
Anxious to nail down a load for this. I think it will work quite nice.
I am not sure whether it was by accident or on purpose but when I ordered my K-31 Diopter set ($289) it came with the front EAS (elevation adjustable sight)! What a tremendous value for what I received, the front sight alone sells for $119. It is truly incredible that we have access to such a quality set of Diopters at a very reasonable price. I am more of a run and gun type of person but can’t wait to try these out. Not sure how good they will be for fast target acquisition but I’m going to find out. I’m meeting with a guy that used to shoot at West Point this week, he is going to give me some advice on diopters, he also has a bunch of inserts and such for me to choose from. I'm thinking about ordering the K-31 Bi-pod mount, has anyone here tried one out? I'm sure the quality is there.
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LOL! TKO, you ordered at exactly the right time. We had run out of the issue front sight and Our policy is to ship same day or next day. Three of you got the EAS sight for that simple reason. That particular sight will take you out to 2,000 yards, if the load is right and you are able.
The bipod is exactly where it needs to be in the forward position to prevent undue down pressure on the barrel. The zfk55 bipod is attached directly to the receiver to avoid that same circumstance. Unless your rifle has a true free floating barrel with no fore end contact with the stock, you don't want a fully forward bipod. It does affect POI. The SP bipod is also attached directly to the receiver with just the forward yoke for stabilization, not full support.
The bipod is exactly where it needs to be in the forward position to prevent undue down pressure on the barrel. The zfk55 bipod is attached directly to the receiver to avoid that same circumstance. Unless your rifle has a true free floating barrel with no fore end contact with the stock, you don't want a fully forward bipod. It does affect POI. The SP bipod is also attached directly to the receiver with just the forward yoke for stabilization, not full support.
Wow, now thats customer service, Thank You!!! I just tried to order the adjustable Bi-pod adapter, I guess its out of stock. Let me know when you get them back in, I will order one along with 2 rubber butt plates. Thanks again!
AND.................. of course.......... That prompts a story.
Back in the 80's I was the sole Montana dealer for a number of rifles imported by Stoeger. Among them was the Israeli Galil. I had brought in maybe 20 or so of the Galil in .223 and they sold regularly with happy users, but then........ They introduced the same rifle in .308. Both had a forward mounted bipod, but what I suspected came to be true when I found that the OD of the .308 barrel was the same as the OD on the .223. The first two rifles came back to me within 2 days. The complaint?......... "My .308 POI group changes from shot to shot!" Yep. IMI had used that same barrel and bored it out to .308. It performed rather well when sandbagged, but as soon as the bipod was deployed, the varying weight of the shooter's down pressure on the rifle changed the POI. All barrels, other than those that are H/Bar, hammer forged or made of SS in an H/bar have both flex and "whip".
Stoeger took the entire shipment back without comment or complaint. Apparently I wasn't the only dealer with that complaint.
I'll explain more about flex and whip in detail later today. I'm 'bout typed out for the moment.
Back in the 80's I was the sole Montana dealer for a number of rifles imported by Stoeger. Among them was the Israeli Galil. I had brought in maybe 20 or so of the Galil in .223 and they sold regularly with happy users, but then........ They introduced the same rifle in .308. Both had a forward mounted bipod, but what I suspected came to be true when I found that the OD of the .308 barrel was the same as the OD on the .223. The first two rifles came back to me within 2 days. The complaint?......... "My .308 POI group changes from shot to shot!" Yep. IMI had used that same barrel and bored it out to .308. It performed rather well when sandbagged, but as soon as the bipod was deployed, the varying weight of the shooter's down pressure on the rifle changed the POI. All barrels, other than those that are H/Bar, hammer forged or made of SS in an H/bar have both flex and "whip".
Stoeger took the entire shipment back without comment or complaint. Apparently I wasn't the only dealer with that complaint.
I'll explain more about flex and whip in detail later today. I'm 'bout typed out for the moment.
Do most find that some sort of cheek riser is needed for using the diopter sight? How many inches above bore does it measure? My issue is high Eastern European cheek bones. I have two KRG Bravo’s on the LR bolt guns and both require quite a bit of height for a proper weld.
Thanks
Thanks
Few, if any, Swiss rifle competition shooters use a cheek riser. My Son, Latigo uses one simply because it "looks cool" LOL
Here with his prize Officer's Issue K31 the day it arrived. He ordered his custom riser the next day. LOL
The Butt Pad Adapter follows the original contour of the stock and allows for the use of a recoil pad. The original purpose was to make LOP (length of pull) better for longer American arms. The Swiss, as a people in that 1800's to 1900"s era were of a shorter stature than the average American, so we gave it the option of a 1" to 2" LOP advantage.
