1:12 twist 308 help

Z

ZackG

Private
Minuteman
Jun 13, 2011
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0
34
W. Kentucky
#1
I own a Savage 12 F/TR which has a 12 twist, And I don't know where to start in bullet selection. I know, I know, shoot em all and see what my gun likes. I know that, but I'm looking for advice that might help me save some cash. Just need to get started somewhere.

I'm torn between the the popular 175gr SMK, or a 155gr bullet (berger, scenar). Personally I prefer the flatter shooting 155, but I understand that I'd be sacrificing wind drift for elevation.

So far, using the 168 SMK factory ammunition, the gun will shot almost in the same hole at 100yds, but I'm not convinced the 168 SMK will be able to perform at 1000yds.

I'm brand spanking new to reloading, so I'm looking for educated folks who can teach me. Thanks!
 
#3
Re: 1:12 twist 308 help

I like the Scenar because the length of the bullet seems to make it act like the 175. At least that's what a lot of folks have told me.

Another highly recommended bullet is the Berger 155.5 FB, but I'm afraid my rudimentary reloading skills will be inadequate for that rather finicky bullet.

I assume you're using a 1:12 twist?
 
#5
Re: 1:12 twist 308 help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1:12 will stabilize any 185gr bullet (at least). </div></div>Appropriate twist rate has less to do with weight than with bearing surface.
 
#6
Re: 1:12 twist 308 help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1:12 will stabilize any 185gr bullet (at least). </div></div>Appropriate twist rate has less to do with weight than with bearing surface. </div></div>

+2

I would load up a few of the following, and see what your rifle likes best.

155 gr. Lapua Scenar
165 gr. Hornady (any)
168 gr. Hornady or Sierra BTHP
178 gr. Hornady AMAX

Shoot those bullets and figure out which works best.
 
#8
Re: 1:12 twist 308 help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm torn between the the popular 175gr SMK, or a 155gr bullet (berger, scenar). Personally I prefer the flatter shooting 155, but I understand that I'd be sacrificing wind drift for elevation. </div></div>

Go ahead and use the 155s... specifically the 155.5BT. They shoot very, very well and unless you are really pushing the 175s hard, you aren't giving up much if anything in wind drift.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Another highly recommended bullet is the Berger 155.5 FB, but I'm afraid my rudimentary reloading skills will be inadequate for that rather finicky bullet.</div></div>

Not sure where you get that the bullet is 'finicky'. Loading 155s in a .308 is about as easy as falling off a stump - assuming you have the basic reloading tools for measuring seating depth, etc. that you should have anyways. BTW, the 155.5 is a 'BT', not a FB.
 
#12
Re: 1:12 twist 308 help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Loading 155s in a .308 is about as easy as falling off a stump - assuming you have the basic reloading tools for measuring seating depth, etc. that you should have anyways.</div></div>

I agree with this 100%. I thought I was going to shoot my damn barrel out hunting the perfect load for 168 AMax's and 175 MK's in my 1/12" barrel. Moved on to 155 AMax's and had a load nailed and recorded in under 40 rounds.
 
#13
Re: 1:12 twist 308 help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: memilanuk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm torn between the the popular 175gr SMK, or a 155gr bullet (berger, scenar). Personally I prefer the flatter shooting 155, but I understand that I'd be sacrificing wind drift for elevation. </div></div>

Go ahead and use the 155s... specifically the 155.5BT. They shoot very, very well and unless you are really pushing the 175s hard, you aren't giving up much if anything in wind drift.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Another highly recommended bullet is the Berger 155.5 FB, but I'm afraid my rudimentary reloading skills will be inadequate for that rather finicky bullet.</div></div>

Not sure where you get that the bullet is 'finicky'. Loading 155s in a .308 is about as easy as falling off a stump - assuming you have the basic reloading tools for measuring seating depth, etc. that you should have anyways. BTW, the 155.5 is a 'BT', not a FB. </div></div>

The "FB" was my abbreviation of "fullbore".

But thank you for your advice! If there truly is hardly any wind drift variation between the 155's and 175's, then why are so many shooters using these heavier bullets that aren't as flat shooting AND deliver more recoil? There's got to be something that makes the 175's desirable. Price maybe?
 
#14
Re: 1:12 twist 308 help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot4fun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You should go either 155 or 175, as the 168, in my experience, is not great at 1000 yards.
I am experimenting with 190 SMK in my 12 twist AI AE now. They are slower but have big BC. </div></div>

Let me know how they perform.

And yeah, I wish the 168 was better at 1k than it is. They're shooting darn near the same hole with just the factory federal, so my gun obviously likes them. Oh well...
 
#15
Re: 1:12 twist 308 help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1:12 will stabilize any 185gr bullet (at least). </div></div>Appropriate twist rate has less to do with weight than with bearing surface. </div></div>

+2

I would load up a few of the following, and see what your rifle likes best.

155 gr. Lapua Scenar
165 gr. Hornady (any)
168 gr. Hornady or Sierra BTHP
178 gr. Hornady AMAX

Shoot those bullets and figure out which works best.
</div></div>

You're right, but ultimately, the most crucial metric is the position of the center of mass along the length of the bullet, so bearing length and overall length are equally important.

The reason I said what I did is because the Berger 185 BTLR is the longest (highest BC) 308 bullet you're going to find that is 185gr or less. A 1:12 will stabililize that bullet, as well as any other 185 or less bullet at the DA (or higher) that I specified.
 
#17
Re: 1:12 twist 308 help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZackG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
But thank you for your advice! If there truly is hardly any wind drift variation between the 155's and 175's, then why are so many shooters using these heavier bullets that aren't as flat shooting AND deliver more recoil? </div></div>

Last time I ran S175MKs from a Rock 1-12" tw 25" barrel, they were doing a tick under 2700fps.

Last time I ran S155MKs from a factory (Savage) 1-10" tw 26" barrel, they were going about 2920-2930 fps.

With a 30" 12 or 13 tw barrel, the new generation 155s (like the current S155MK aka 2156 or the B155.5BT) are clocking a conservative 2950, more like 3000, maybe a bit more.

Not really sure what a 175, Sierra or Berger, could be pushed to from a similar tube. On 'paper' (i.e. JBM) a S175MK would have to be going well over 2850 to *approach* the wind drift of a B155.5BT @ 2950. Granted, the B175LRBT and B185LRBT are even more aerodynamic and the gap narrows and starts going the other way a bit if you can push 'em hard enough. Not sure about the new B175 OTM bullet.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There's got to be something that makes the 175's desirable. Price maybe?</div></div>

Price, possibly. Availability, possibly (more likely to find a local gun store carrying S175MKs than most Berger LR bullets). Tacticool, because 'Uncle' uses 'em... probably
wink.gif


All joking aside, the S175MKs *are* a good bullet, and are also very easy to make shoot out of most .308 Win guns. If you can put together a load that shoots very accurately, will stay more or less supersonic to 1k w/o too much trouble, works well @ mag length, and uses easily/cheaply available components... there's nothing at all wrong with that!
 
#18
Re: 1:12 twist 308 help

With a 1 in 12" twist barrel, you'll be able to stabilize the 175gr SMK. It comes down to preference as to picking between the 155 vs 175gr. I personally prefer the 175gr SMK because of lots of load data, ballistics info, availability, etc.
 
#19
Re: 1:12 twist 308 help

I am a Lapua fan and shoot the 155's Scenars that being said the 155 will better the 175 SIERRA. They have comparable BC's and anytime you have two bullets that have similar BC's the lighter version will always out perform the heavier version... velocity does account for something. If you run the 175 at 2800 and the 155's at 3000 you have gained 200FPS with the same BC. If you want to try 175's the Berger VLD offering is interesting and so is the 178 hornady.

185 class has fewer options. The Berger BTLR not the VLD is the go to bullet. The only other offering is the 190 sierra. I would like to say the 185 Scenar has potential but it does not improve enough on BC from the 155's (it is very accurate)

Two smaller shops like BIB's and MatrixBallistics offer alternatives.

As an aside the higher you go up in weight the more important recoil management becomes.

Best of luck
Trevor
 
#20
Re: 1:12 twist 308 help

The thing I've found about 155palma vs 175ish bullets is that the heavies are much more stable in the transonic. For instance my 18" was 2550 or so with 178 amax and 2650-2700 with 155palma, the 178 was making regular hits at long range but the 155's were really iffy. I really think with a 155 you need to make them go FAST, ie 2900 to get the benefit out of them. I don't think you can do that with a factory 24" unless you are loading to the max or using one of the new powders like 2000mr.
 
#21
Re: 1:12 twist 308 help

Thank you all for your help! For now I think I'll give the cheaper 175SMK a try that will hopefully help me develop a knack for reloading without burning a hole in my pocket. I just can't get my mind off the Scenars though...there's just something about them.

I went to my local shooter supply and a gentleman gave me 10 of the new Berger 175 Tactical OTM to try. I'll give 'em a whiz...
 
#22
Re: 1:12 twist 308 help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The thing I've found about 155palma vs 175ish bullets is that the heavies are much more stable in the transonic. For instance my 18" was 2550 or so with 178 amax and 2650-2700 with 155palma, the 178 was making regular hits at long range but the 155's were really iffy. I really think with a 155 you need to make them go FAST, ie 2900 to get the benefit out of them. I don't think you can do that with a factory 24" unless you are loading to the max or using one of the new powders like 2000mr. </div></div>

Well I'm using a Savage F/TR which has a 30" barrel. I don't really have to worry about the stability of a 155gr bullet at long range so long as I load it with a decent charge.
 
#23
Re: 1:12 twist 308 help

With a 30" barrel i would opt for the 155 Scenar or 155.5 Berger. Both are great F-Class 1k bullets but if you had say a 22" barrel you might struggle to get them to the 2900 fps they need to enjoy maz performance and a 175 or 178 AMAX might work better. For your purpose thought the Scenar works well or try the Sierra 2156 as an alternative.
 
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