1/4 or 1/2 MOA scopes

[Jay Martinez]

the guys I work with a couple South African guys just came and we’re saying the best rifle scopes are 1/4 MOA No professionals would need or want 1/2 MOA rifle scopes.

If you’re hunting, shooting speed, or long precision comp, tactical. What would be your preference and any tid bits might help clarify things.

 

[Poorboyr]

the guys I work with a couple South African guys just came and we’re saying the best rifle scopes are 1/4 MOA No professionals would need or want 1/2 MOA rifle scopes.

If you’re hunting, shooting speed, or long precision comp, tactical. What would be your preference and any tid bits might help clarify things.

Also if you sold to a police department (a scope) does the scope have to be made in-house and not sourced glass from Japan?

This will be good…..

 

[psharon78]

MOA vs MILS are simply a unit of measure. A Tangent Theta in MOA will be just as durable as a Tangent Theta in MILS. I'm no sniper, so I can't speak for the unit of measure a "professional" would be issued. I'm assuming most would choose MILs.

I prefer shooting in MOA. This is just my preference.

As far as where the glass comes from, most glass would come from China, Philippines, Germany, and Japan. Higher end scopes made in Japan are impressive and rugged. I'd be hard pressed to notice the optical differences between top end glass from Japan or Germany

 

[KYAggie]

I needed a good laugh; thanks Jay. Nothing like a couple of South African guys in North Carolina, questions that could easily be answered with google and little reading, and another question that makes no sense at all to introduce yourself on the Hide. Where’s the popcorn, I’m sure this will be a meme fest in a few hours……..

 

[Badjujuu]

1/4 MOA - smaller adjustments per click
1/2 MOA - bigger adjustments per click

If you're shooting long range, maybe 1/2 MOA click adjustmens make sense.

I believe most MOA scopes have 1/4 MOA adjustments.

You just have to make sure to remember that each click is 1/2 MOA and not 1/4 MOA when dialing.......... ask me how I know...

That's my limited take on your question.

 

[carbonbased]

My scopes are delineated unlogarithmically in 𝝅-based imaginary numbers and exfoliated with natural base-12 loofas.

 

[Makinchips208]

My scopes are delineated unlogarithmically in 𝝅-based imaginary numbers and exfoliated with natural base-12 loofas.

What was the exfoliation process? If done wrong it has an inverse negative effect on the parallel rays of light near the equator. In a flat earth model anyways.

 

[carbonbased]

What was the exfoliation process? If done wrong it has an inverse negative effect on the parallel rays of light near the equator. In a flat earth model anyways.

Either @TheHorta or @TheKing drew up the best reticle in the known universe (but the King is, uh, “dead” or forcibly retired). Ask them. I am but a wee man.

 

[brianf]

instead of trying to do market research on the hide

just become a leupold or vortex dealer and sell their scopes while putting a few dollars in your pocket

by the way you arent going to make your own scope or pay for your own reticle because you have no idea how much it costs

if you plan on importing OEM chi-com scopes and you are trying to pic specs...everyone will be able to tell the difference of quality and youll be selling them at discount to airsoft kids

 

[TheHorta]

You’re still living in the 1900’s. This is the 21st century, and we have this thing called “science.”

MOA and MIL are a thing of the past. A real reticle will be ZERO MIL/MOA. You need to think differently, like Neo in the Matrix: “You mean I can dodge bullets?” “When the time comes, you won’t have to.”

Carbonbased is correct. I have developed “The reticle to end all reticles.” It makes every scope on the planet irrelevant and useless. It is so advanced, the DoD / DARPA are pressuring me to restrict it to Special Mission Units. In the wrong hands, it could shift the balance of power on earth and plunge the world into chaos and darkness.

 

[TwistedOneinSeven]

Way too many words in the OP.

Edit to
A South African horse called Milmoa walks into a bar........

 

[Aftermath]

the guys I work with a couple South African guys just came and we’re saying the best rifle scopes are 1/4 MOA No professionals would need or want 1/2 MOA rifle scopes.

If you’re hunting, shooting speed, or long precision comp, tactical. What would be your preference and any tid bits might help clarify things.

Also if you sold to a police department (a scope) does the scope have to be made in-house and not sourced glass from Japan?

Are you real close to Ft. Bragg?

 

[Jay Martinez]

Okay, jerk offs lol. I clearly typed this way too fast on my phone. When using a rifle scope. The turrets. What do you think is easier or better to use. 1/4 or 1/2

 

[acudaowner]

.005 mil scopes giving you lots of adjustments

 

[Jay Martinez]

1/4 MOA - smaller adjustments per click
1/2 MOA - bigger adjustments per click

If you're shooting long range, maybe 1/2 MOA click adjustmens make sense.

I believe most MOA scopes have 1/4 MOA adjustments.

You just have to make sure to remember that each click is 1/2 MOA and not 1/4 MOA when dialing.......... ask me how I know...

That's my limited take on your question.

Yeah I realize what each of them do. I think I was just asking about preferences and why. Why would you say long-range 1/2 makes better sense?

 

[Jay Martinez]

MOA vs MILS are simply a unit of measure. A Tangent Theta in MOA will be just as durable as a Tangent Theta in MILS. I'm no sniper, so I can't speak for the unit of measure a "professional" would be issued. I'm assuming most would choose MILs.

I prefer shooting in MOA. This is just my preference.

As far as where the glass comes from, most glass would come from China, Philippines, Germany, and Japan. Higher end scopes made in Japan are impressive and rugged. I'd be hard pressed to notice the optical differences between top end glass from Japan or Germany

Yeah, it was a weird thing they had added. "If you had a police contract, it has to be in-house made," to which I replied I don't think this is true. It would really limit, and a lot of companies create scopes in Japan (from my understanding)

I understand MILs and MOA. I use MOA scopes, also. I was just wondering if you have a scope you can have 1/2 Minute turrets or 1/4 minute what do people prefer? It's more to settle the debate. If I am asking this wrong, tell me why.

 

[Badjujuu]

Yeah I realize what each of them do. I think I was just asking about preferences and why. Why would you say long-range 1/2 makes better sense?

If you had to dial 14.6 MOAs - would you prefer to turn the elevation turret 58 clicks (1/4MOA) or 29 clicks (1/2MOA).

Like I said, most MOA scopes I have seen are 1/4 adjustment turrets. My last MOA scope was 1/2 MOA each click.

Since then I have switched to MILs, just because I shoot matches where most folks I shoot with run MILs so that's easier for us.

 

[Im2bent]

Everyone knows what the pros use...

 

[carbonbased]

Carbonbased is correct. I have developed “The reticle to end all reticles.” It makes every scope on the planet irrelevant and useless. It is so advanced, the DoD / DARPA are pressuring me to restrict it to Special Mission Units. In the wrong hands, it could shift the balance of power on earth and plunge the world into chaos and darkness.

IIRC, the Horta’s SupraRet is so powerful that one could accidentally shoot oneself in the back of the head.

You see, the bullet would travel around the Earth buoyed by the unfathomable comic unknowns invoked by the SupraRet itself.

Wormholes. Spaceholes. Dillholes.

 

[Jay Martinez]

If you had to dial 14.6 MOAs - would you prefer to turn the elevation turret 58 clicks (1/4MOA) or 29 clicks (1/2MOA).

Like I said, most MOA scopes I have seen are 1/4 adjustment turrets. My last MOA scope was 1/2 MOA each click.

Since then I have switched to MILs, just because I shoot matches where most folks I shoot with run MILs so that's easier for us.

This was my part of the debate. But the Africans had a scope and said well, if you have a scope, each number is 1 minute, so the clicks are irrelevant. Any thoughts on this? Look, I've been shooting for 15 years. But not long-range, so I am asking as an amateur. And if I sound like a jackass, it's just my ignorance, but this whole "would you prefer x clicks or half that" is where the whole thing started. That's why the guy came out and said no professional would use 1/2, and that blew my mind and what brought me to a forum to ask.

 

[carbonbased]

This was my part of the debate. But the Africans had a scope and said well, if you have a scope, each number is 1 minute, so the clicks are irrelevant. Any thoughts on this? Look, I've been shooting for 15 years. But not long-range, so I am asking as an amateur. And if I sound like a jackass, it's just my ignorance, but this whole "would you prefer x clicks or half that" is where the whole thing started. That's why the guy came out and said no professional would use 1/2, and that blew my mind and what brought me to a forum to ask.

So MOA is an angular measurement, ok? All you have to ask yourself is, “Do I want to be locked into adjusting only via big angles or do I want to preserve the ability to adjust in small angles too?”

1/2 MOA clicks might not be fine enough unless you’re shooting pretty large targets.

Regardless, I’ve never heard of a 1/2 MOA click scope. Maybe they exist?

I HAVE heard of 1/8 MOA click scopes, especially for benchrest. And of course 1/4 MOA click scopes are standard.

 

[Im2bent]

This was my part of the debate. But the Africans had a scope and said well, if you have a scope, each number is 1 minute, so the clicks are irrelevant. Any thoughts on this? Look, I've been shooting for 15 years. But not long-range, so I am asking as an amateur. And if I sound like a jackass, it's just my ignorance, but this whole "would you prefer x clicks or half that" is where the whole thing started. That's why the guy came out and said no professional would use 1/2, and that blew my mind and what brought me to a forum to ask.

I guess if you are poaching elephants at 100 yards the clicks are irrelevant. as carbonbased stated the 1/4 moa clicks will allow for finer adjustments. If you are shooting at 1000 yards do you want to be stuck with making adjustments in 5.24 inch jumps (1/2moa) or in 2.6 inch jumps (1/4 moa)?

 

[Badjujuu]

So MOA is an angular measurement, ok? All you have to ask yourself is, “Do I want to be locked into adjusting only via big angles or do I want to preserve the ability to adjust in small angles too?”

1/2 MOA clicks might not be fine enough unless you’re shooting pretty large targets.

Regardless, I’ve never heard of a 1/2 MOA click scope. Maybe they exist?

I HAVE heard of 1/8 MOA click scopes, especially for benchrest. And of course 1/4 MOA click scopes are standard.

I owned a Vortex LH LR and the elevation turret had 1/2 moa per click.

Haven't seen one since, so definitely discountined.

But i absolutely agree that one would want smaller adjustment availability thus most MOA scopes are 1/4 moa per click..

 

[Makinchips208]

So MOA is an angular measurement, ok? All you have to ask yourself is, “Do I want to be locked into adjusting only via big angles or do I want to preserve the ability to adjust in small angles too?”

1/2 MOA clicks might not be fine enough unless you’re shooting pretty large targets.

Regardless, I’ve never heard of a 1/2 MOA click scope. Maybe they exist?

I HAVE heard of 1/8 MOA click scopes, especially for benchrest. And of course 1/4 MOA click scopes are standard.

Nightforce Nx8 1-8 is .5moa per click.

 

[carbonbased]

Nightforce Nx8 1-8 is .5moa per click.

But what if I am shooting tiny ninjas?

 

[Makinchips208]

But what if I am shooting tiny ninjas?

Can’t be done. Least not with a milmoa scopemobile.

 

[smoothy8500]

Ehhh, in the (very) small world of NRA Service Rifle match shooting you can get away with 1/2 MOA scopes. Then again we're only going 600yds. In F-Class (still a small world), a 1/2 MOA scope is a hindrance.

 

[carbonbased]

Can’t be done. Least not with a milmoa scopemobile.

Where may I purchase such an awesome device???

Lol

I swear I’m a-walking into my local gun shop with muh spurs on and asking for a “milmoa scopemobile. Like in Batman.” Hahah

 

[gunsnjeeps]

For High Power the preference is 1/4 MOA, but 1/2 will do, 1/4 is better for chasing X's. I bought a rifle from an F Class shooter that was 1/8 MOA, shooting it for long range (1k) I went down to 1/4, but adding the zero stop was the reason I changed it.

F Class targets have a .5 MOA X ring and tighter scoring rings. High Power is a 1 MOA X ring.

Honest answer is that if you can't hit it with a 1/2 MOA click, a 1/4 MOA won't help you.

 

[Aftermath]

Okay, jerk offs lol. I clearly typed this way too fast on my phone. When using a rifle scope. The turrets. What do you think is easier or better to use. 1/4 or 1/2

MILOA, of course, are the easiest and best, BY FAR. Every smoove operator knows that shit.

 

[beetroot]

Next time the South Afrikans at work start giving you shooting advice offer them some melktert and ask them about Land Rovers.
Every time they bring up shooting or MOA adjustment move the conversation towards Land Rovers.

Then buy MRAD scopes and stop listening to fudds.

 

[psharon78]

I use 1/4 MOA. I haven't seen many scopes that use 1/2 MOA on the market.

 

[sinister]

Depends on what you're shooting and what your mission requirements are -- METT-T.

Super-duper long range? Tiny targets? Shipping containers? Lots of targets at varying ranges, with runners? Do you have time to dial or do you hold-over with some style of grid?

Are you equipping and teaching allies or clients and are they buying or are you gifting them equipment?

How often and on what kind of ranges do you shoot on?

1/4 and half-MOA are obvious. .1 mil is roughly equivalent to 1/3 MOA.

 

[Cutout]

A couple of thoughts on 1/4 vs 1/2 MOA:

1. Nightforce used to make their BEAST scope with 1/2 MOA adjustments, plus a 1/4 MOA precision adjustment lever. The idea was that you could dial your elevation faster, then make a precision adjustment with the 1/4 MOA lever. It was an interesting concept and some people liked it a lot. Some people didn't. That scope has since been discontinued.

2. Some lower magnification scopes and red dots use 1/2 MOA clicks. I don't see this as a problem, since those are being used in applications that generally don't require 1/4 MOA level precision and the reticle is much larger than that anyway. Let's be real: if you've got a 2 MOA dot and you're focusing on fast splits... does 1/4 MOA really matter? We're talking the difference of ~1" at 400 yards. Are you really that good with your red dot? Is your carbine really that accurate (assuming the red dot is even on a 5.56 carbine and not a PCC or something)? Is your ammo really that consistent?

3. For some people who use holdovers more than dialing and have a Christmas tree/TREMOR/etc. reticle, the dialing capabilities aren't all that important anyway. In other shooting disciplines, 1/8 MOA adjustments are necessary.

Like anything, these points are just my opinion and are dependent on the shooter, the use case, and personal preference. But to say that "no professionals use 1/2 MOA adjustments" is just not accurate. They aren't as common as 1/4 MOA adjustments, but they aren't just a failure of engineering. They exist for a reason, which may not apply to you, but may apply to someone else. Personally, I don't care that much about 1/4 vs 1/2 MOA when it comes to a low power optic, but I'm not a "professional." Anyway, that is the extent of my knowledge and opinion on the subject.

 

[striped1]

MOA / MILS are so passe. The future is MOF....



Minutes of Frank

 

[ITR_98_111]

Funny - both my Kahles K1050 and Schmidt 12-50 are 1/8th moa; who even makes a 1/2 moa adjustment scope anymore? Because I want 5" adjustments at 1000 yards - oh wait, that's the entire x ring.

 

[Poorboyr]

The “real” question is whether this dude is really legit.

My South African buddies tell me it’s BS…….

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

I started with a Vortex Crossfire II 6-24X50 with 1/4 MOA adjustment graduations. I then moved on to an Athlon Argos BTR Gen II 10X40-56 scope with 1/8 MOA Graduations and since most of my shooting is prone or bench rest and I dial for elevation I really appreciated/liked the 1/8th/0.125 MOA clicks. Then moved on to a Vortex Golden Eagle which is a 15-60X52 optic with 1/8/0.125 MOA graduations and with the better glass and higher magnification coupled with the 0.125 MOA turrets I'm at my final resting place on optics.

I just like finer adjustments at longer ranges and higher magnification. I also like FFP scopes and get along with MOA fine as I don't compete. I couldn't imagine anyone using a 0.5 MOA optic but there's a lot of room for personal preferences out there.

VooDoo