Rifle Scopes 1-4x for CQB to Mid-Range: Starting from Scratch

[halowords]

I'm trying to put together a list of optics to try for my AR-15. I was thinking something like an EoTech or Aimpoint, however I like the versatility of a 1-4X. Maybe a 1-6x It's going to be for anything from say 25 yards to 300 yards. I don't think my range goes out further than that. Thus, it would be nice if I could use it as a fairly quick-acquisition CQB site, and be able to try my hand at longer range stuff.

This will also be my first optic of any kind, ever. I've shot w/ a scope, just not on my guns and I'm usually an iron sights shooter. Hence, a US Optics SN-4 1-4X would probably be ideal, something like that I would probably save up for and get in a few years if I were to go that route. I also plan on shooting with both eyes open where the weak-eye helps sort of do the rough aiming/sweeping and the dominant eye obviously does the actual targeting. Just in case that makes a difference.

Also, I want something that is nice, but not just for the sake of being "the best." I want something that will work well and last a long time, then upgrade if/when I actually need to. I could go with something that is cheaper that I won't know the difference between it and a more expensive one then start saving up for the dream scope, or bump up if there is going to be a noticeable improvement in it's performance or longevity.

Really, I'm just trying to get ideas for the short list and get any pro's/con's that might matter to somebody in my situation. For now, here are the ones I've sort of gathered I should take a look at. Feel free to add others or critique what's already there.

Burris XTR 1-4x
SWFA SS 1-4x
SWFA SS 1-6x
Vortex Viper 1-4x
Trijicon TR24
Meopta 1-4x22mm Meostar R1

Any thoughts are welcome.

-Cheers

 

[shootist~]

Re: 1-4x for CQB to Mid-Range: Starting from Scratch

If you happen to be weak eye dominate, a true 1.0 on the low end will be a major benefit to both-eyes-open shooting. Otherwise add the Leupold 1.25-4 Patrol to your list for something on the budget end. Reticle is on the heavy side, but this aids in target acquisition and speed - especially where the target is not highly visible (shadows, harsh light, etc).

The illumination is daylight visible on the VXR Patrol optics, if that is a concern (it's not to me). Low light illumination and 1.0x is a benefit though for HD use if you depend on your magnified optic instead of a Red Dot.

The Vortex PST 1-4 is also in this category (good value on the budget end), works great at CQB distance. Reticle is a little thin for my older eyes, but still works well to 300 Meters (for me). I have the PST 1-4 on a hard use carbine I use for CQB drills and ran it for a while on my SPR 3-Gun rifle with good results to mid range (in good light). The illumination works well in dim light, but is not daylight visible.

On the high end add the Nightforce 1-4 and the not yet released Leupold Mark 6 1-6 to your list. You get what you pay for, at least with the NF. "Probably" so on the Mark 6 as well.

I also own a USO SN-4 1.5-6 DFP. Great glass, but it's heavy (for my tastes)and I now regret getting the DFP (dual focal plane) feature. I will probably send it back (for the second time) this winter and have the SFP center dot removed - it's not centered at 1.5x, which is very distracting. It's already gone back to USO once when it originally moved off center (at any power). I think USO is still working out the bugs on this design.

Good luck in your quest and know that the first scope you buy will probably not be your last one. If in doubt, always go with quality over price if at all possible.

 

[Tacsnipe73]

Re: 1-4x for CQB to Mid-Range: Starting from Scratch

I have a leupold Mark 4 CQ/T 1-3x14mm on my M400, and I have to say, its quality is unmatched. It has very good reflex qualities and at 3x it has pretty much all the magnification you need for an ar15. It runs at around $1100 and has an illuminated reticle. I would highly recommend this.
However, if you are looking to spend a little less money, the burris xtr is a good buy, and would also suit you well.

Good luck...

 

[halowords]

Re: 1-4x for CQB to Mid-Range: Starting from Scratch

Thanks for the replies. A few notes:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shootist~</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you happen to be weak eye dominate, a true 1.0 on the low end will be a major benefit to both-eyes-open shooting.</div></div>

Well... I seem to be cross eye dominant. That said, it seems to "float" and when I shot long gun w/ iron sights about a week ago I did fine. So, um, beats me. Also HD is a consideration. Not sure if any of that would preclude the Leupold 1.25-4 or not.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Vortex PST 1-4 is also in this category (good value on the budget end), works great at CQB distance. Reticle is a little thin for my older eyes, but still works well to 300 Meters (for me). I have the PST 1-4 on a hard use carbine I use for CQB drills and ran it for a while on my SPR 3-Gun rifle with good results to mid range (in good light). The illumination works well in dim light, but is not daylight visible.

On the high end add the Nightforce 1-4 and the not yet released Leupold Mark 6 1-6 to your list. You get what you pay for, at least with the NF. "Probably" so on the Mark 6 as well.</div></div>

I'll keep those in mind. More on High-end vs. Low-end/Mid-level in a bit.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good luck in your quest and know that the first scope you buy will probably not be your last one. If in doubt, always go with quality over price if at all possible.</div></div>

Thanks! Good to know. Just don't tell my wife.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tacsnipe73</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a leupold Mark 4 CQ/T 1-3x14mm on my M400, and I have to say, its quality is unmatched. It has very good reflex qualities and at 3x it has pretty much all the magnification you need for an ar15. It runs at around $1100 and has an illuminated reticle. I would highly recommend this.
However, if you are looking to spend a little less money, the burris xtr is a good buy, and would also suit you well.

Good luck... </div></div>

Appreciate the thoughts on the Leupold Mark 4 & Burris XTR.

As for going high-end or not on the optics, I'm not sure how high-end to go or not. It's my first optic, so I don't want to go super high end UNLESS it will be worth it long-term. Something like the Leupold Mark 4 or the like sound great. I'm just wondering if I should start out more budget-minded or if it is just better to go for the gold. The plus of waiting for higher-end is I'll probably have more refined preferences. Anyway, just thinking aloud on that aspect of the decision.

Thanks for the input so far.

-Cheers

 

[Bounce]

Re: 1-4x for CQB to Mid-Range: Starting from Scratch

Not sure what the intended range is for "high end". For me, that'd be anything over $1200. For others, maybe twice that and for others still, half that.
For my $, I'd go with a good glass 1x6, illuminated reticule optional. I just ordered the Leupold VX-6 1x6x24mm with the SPR reticule. At $950 plus tax, it seems to be clean, clear and a probable keeper for just about anything in any conditions out to 300 yards.

 

[hewlett260]

Re: 1-4x for CQB to Mid-Range: Starting from Scratch

I do not own any 1-4x scopes, however I have used them in the past and own several higher power scopes from Leupold and Nightforce and have to say, the Nightforce is well worth the extra cost over a comparable Leupold. If my wife doesn't leave me first, I will be getting rid of my bushmaster to move up to an LWRC M6A5 and top it with the Nightforce 1-4 to use for 3-gun and various other fun activities, May be overkill, or may be just right for me but I like the scope for my intended purpose. Just try to look through them and see which ones you like, which ones fit your needs and then your budget and decide from there.

 

[halowords]

Re: 1-4x for CQB to Mid-Range: Starting from Scratch

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bounce</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not sure what the intended range is for "high end". For me, that'd be anything over $1200. For others, maybe twice that and for others still, half that.</div></div>

Valid point. For my range, "high end" or thereabouts is probably $1,200. I can save up to roughly that much, although my median range level would be roughly $500 to $800. Again, if something screams at me "Buy Me!" and it's $1,200, I can probably just get pretty good with the BUIS and save up for the (relatively) higher end optic.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For my $, I'd go with a good glass 1x6, illuminated reticule optional. I just ordered the Leupold VX-6 1x6x24mm with the SPR reticule. At $950 plus tax, it seems to be clean, clear and a probable keeper for just about anything in any conditions out to 300 yards.</div></div>

Yeah, I am liking the idea of a 1-6x. Generally from what I've seen, when you jump from 1-4x to 1-6x the price jumps up a fair bit. I'll have to check out the VX-6, my LGS carries Leupold.

-Cheers

 

[SniperCJ]

Re: 1-4x for CQB to Mid-Range: Starting from Scratch

Nightforce 1-4. True 1X, circle / dot reticle for CQB application. 4X for longer stuff. Good field of view. Fairly light. High quality.

 

[oldrifleman]

Re: 1-4x for CQB to Mid-Range: Starting from Scratch

I have a Leupold VX-6 1-6X24 Illuminated German #4 inbound should have it Tuesday. It will go on a Rainer Arms RUk (when they get the next shipment of lowers) using a Bobro mount.

 

[stinkyDrunk]

Re: 1-4x for CQB to Mid-Range: Starting from Scratch

I shoot a 2 gun league where we shoot targets from 2 to 100 yards. The optics that compete with the red dots are tr24s. They are daylight visible, nice and bright. That said, I'm waiting on a SS1-6 to see if I can give them a run.

 

[GunKnowledge]

Re: 1-4x for CQB to Mid-Range: Starting from Scratch

There is no reason to have to splurge for your first optic setup. While $600+ optics are great, like you said, you won't appreciate them at first.

Some of the choices mentioned in the very first post are popular and mid-range optics and will work well, but for your first setup I wouldn't even spend that much.

Get the $350 Leupold VXII 1-4, $300 Bushnell Elite 1.25-4, $280 Nikon Monarch 1-4, or other entry level scopes from the quality name brands.

You're still getting a quality brand name with an excellent warranty, and once you decide you want to upgrade, you're only going to lose $50-100 bucks selling your old scope off.

 

[33shooter]

Re: 1-4x for CQB to Mid-Range: Starting from Scratch

I disagree with not "splurging" on your first optic. I subscribe to the "buy once cry once" house. If you buy a nicer optic, you'll be happy from the word go. I see no problem with your list, and you should go look through those before you decide. Though, the SS scopes are real nice options for sure. I would also consider the NF 1-4 also, along with the Leupold VX-6 multigun edition, Vortex Razor HD II 1-6 (not out yet)and don't forget the Meopta ZD 1-4.

Lots of great optics in the 1-4/5/6 range for $500-1500

 

[halowords]

Re: 1-4x for CQB to Mid-Range: Starting from Scratch

Thanks again for the replies. A brief update, I'm taking time to look through the optics at my LGS. I will probably be buying online simply due to the selection (don't worry, I'll be buying a gun or two from them in the near future to compensate

). I'm just trying to get a feel for which reticles I like. The German 3 is nice. The optic for >$2k was amazing, but I'm not getting that one.

So I'm still researching before I actually buy anything.

Anyway, for 5.56 a/o 7.62x39, would it pay to hold out for a 1-6x (specifically thinking the SWFA 1-6x), or would anything over 1-4 be overkill? Or rather, at what point does the 1-6x become overkill (if ever)?

-Cheers

 

[Ed-G]

Re: 1-4x for CQB to Mid-Range: Starting from Scratch

You may want to check-out the Leupold VX-6 1-6x24 Illuminated Multigun Edition. It has a Fire Dot SPR reticle. Not much info out there, I believe it is still a custom shop/semi-production item. I got one that I haven't mount yet. At first I was disapointed with the pincussioning at 1x but the more I have messed with it, I don't think its a dealbreaker. The firedot at its maximum illumination is daylight bright.

Here is a description:
Leupold introduces the VX-6 Multigun 1-6x24mm riflescope featuring the illuminated FireDot Special Purpose Reticle (SPR), and now available through the Leupold Custom Shop. With its powerful 6:1 zoom ratio, the VX-6 Multigun delivers the speed of a zero-magnification red dot at its lowest power setting. At its highest power setting, the scope pulls distant targets in tighter for more precise shot placement. Unlike many higher power scopes that deliver their best sight picture only at each end of the zoom ratio, VX-6 is engineered to deliver exceptional image quality from edge-to-edge of the visual field at any magnification. With an MSRP of $949.99, the VX-6 Multigun outperforms many higher priced optics. “The VX-6 Multigun is the result of input from consumers who wanted more in a 3-Gun optic,” said Pat Mundy, senior marketing manager for Leupold & Stevens, Inc. “Our production managers and Custom Shop have worked closely to deliver a product that answered these requests.” The FireDot SPR is designed for instinctive, close-range/low-magnification situations, yet allows shooters to engage longer-range targets with greater precision than generally possible with other reticles. The illuminated center aiming point attracts the eye naturally and makes target acquisition quick, precise and simple. It has a one-button, low-profile design that offers a choice of 12 different reticle brightness settings. Proprietary Motion Sensor Technology (MST) automatically deactivates illumination after five minutes of inactivity, but reactivates immediately when any movement is detected. Another key feature is the Quantum Optical System which includes lead-free, precision-ground and edge blackened lenses with Leupold’s Xtended Twilight lens coatings for the highest level of light transmission and clarity. Carefully positioned in optimum relationship to each other, the lenses deliver up to 98 percent total light transmission. Exterior lens surfaces are coated with DiamondCoat 2 for unsurpassed resistance to scratching and abrasion. VX-6 has pop-up, re-zeroable finger click 0.1 milradian adjustments for windage and elevation that can be converted to Leupold’s Custom Dial System (CDS). With CDS, competitors can get on target at any range, with any load, by matching their scopes to the ballistics of their ammunition and sight-in conditions. Each scope comes with one free CDS dial. In addition, VX-6 has a generous eyebox and long eye relief, making it quick and easy for competitors to get their eye behind the riflescope and attain a full, clear sight picture. Compared to competitive riflescopes, the VX-6’s eyebox is up to 137 percent larger at the high power ranges, and up to 67 percent larger at the low power ranges. This provides exceptional flexibility when setting up for longer shots at high power, as well as the quick target acquisition required for stages where speed is at a premium. Other key features: •Leupold’s most durable Twin Bias Spring Erector System provides the utmost in mechanical reliability. It is built with up to 30 percent more holding force than competitive riflescopes to withstand the most intense recoil and abuse. •Extreme fast-focus eyepiece allows smooth, fast and precise focus adjustment for users of different visual acuity, from nearsighted to farsighted. •Second generation Argon/Krypton waterproofing and fog proofing. Enhanced thermal shock resistance

 

[eclipse57]

Re: 1-4x for CQB to Mid-Range: Starting from Scratch

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bounce</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just ordered the Leupold VX-6 1x6x24mm with the SPR reticule. At $950 plus tax, it seems to be clean, clear and a probable keeper for just about anything in any conditions out to 300 yards.
</div></div>

If you don't mind me asking, what was the turn around time from when you ordered till you received the scope?

TIA

 

[HellsCanyonArmory]

Re: 1-4x for CQB to Mid-Range: Starting from Scratch

Have you looked into the Weaver tacticals at all? Frank said they were one of the biggest values per $ at this years SHOT...

FFP, Illuminated, 1-5x, 30mm tube... not much to complain about for under $700! Let me know and I'd be glad to get one sent out to you...
http://www.hellscanyonarmory.com/index.php/weaver-tactical-optics/

Mike

 

[halowords]

Re: 1-4x for CQB to Mid-Range: Starting from Scratch

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ed-G</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You may want to check-out the Leupold VX-6 1-6x24 Illuminated Multigun Edition. It has a Fire Dot SPR reticle. Not much info out there, I believe it is still a custom shop/semi-production item.</div></div>

I'll look into it.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HellsCanyonArmory</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have you looked into the Weaver tacticals at all? Frank said they were one of the biggest values per $ at this years SHOT...

FFP, Illuminated, 1-5x, 30mm tube... not much to complain about for under $700! Let me know and I'd be glad to get one sent out to you...
http://www.hellscanyonarmory.com/index.php/weaver-tactical-optics/

Mike</div></div>

Hmmmm . . . I've never heard of it. I'll do some digging.

-Cheers

 

[blonz]

Re: 1-4x for CQB to Mid-Range: Starting from Scratch

My current set up is a Trijicon Accupoint 1-4 (set on 4x)with an Aimpoint Micro T. Before I tried a Burris 1-4 and the Leupy 1-3 but the Accupoint I like best for under 1k $ (yes my budget is limited)

 

[eracer]

Re: 1-4x for CQB to Mid-Range: Starting from Scratch

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: stinkyDrunk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I shoot a 2 gun league where we shoot targets from 2 to 100 yards. The optics that compete with the red dots are tr24s. They are daylight visible, nice and bright. That said, I'm waiting on a SS1-6 to see if I can give them a run. </div></div>Same here. I got in on the pre-sale and am really hoping that the SWFA 1-6 is everything it promises to be. Mostly, I hope the illumination is daylight visible (that is important to me.)

Also, how can one shoot a rifle from the weak side when they are cross-eye dominant?

I'm left-handed and right-eye dominant. I have to shoot rifles right-handed.

 

[oldrifleman]

Re: 1-4x for CQB to Mid-Range: Starting from Scratch

I have one of the Leupold VX-6 1-6 Illuminated on my new AR. got a good deal on it for $750.

 

[33shooter]

Re: 1-4x for CQB to Mid-Range: Starting from Scratch

I don't think the 6x is overkill as it gives you a little more top end, but you'll spend more to get it. With distances of 300-400 yards 4x is good, but 6x is good too, it's personal preference. The 1-6x will give you more flexibility and the ability to stretch out the 5.56. With competitions that are under 200yds you might never use the scope to its full potential, but you would have the ability should the need arise.

The new Leupold Multigun scope looks nice and the reticule and illumination is good too. I believe they have some in stock at DSG Arms.

The SWFA 1-6 is looking like a real winner of a scope in price and features. With that said, they are not out yet so it's just good on paper till released. (I have one on order myself)

I've looked at the Weaver in person. The glass isn't terrible for the price and the illumination is ok also. The magnification range for the price is execellent too. It's a great buy for the money. My only 2 issues with the scope are reticule related. 1st, because it's FFP the reticule isn't very useful on 1x (to me) because the reticule is very small when dialed down. Second, the reticule does not match the adjustments (mil/moa).

 

[HellsCanyonArmory]

Re: 1-4x for CQB to Mid-Range: Starting from Scratch

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 33shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't think the 6x is overkill as it gives you a little more top end, but you'll spend more to get it. With distances of 300-400 yards 4x is good, but 6x is good too, it's personal preference. The 1-6x will give you more flexibility and the ability to stretch out the 5.56. With competitions that are under 200yds you might never use the scope to its full potential, but you would have the ability should the need arise.

The new Leupold Multigun scope looks nice and the reticule and illumination is good too. I believe they have some in stock at DSG Arms.

The SWFA 1-6 is looking like a real winner of a scope in price and features. With that said, they are not out yet so it's just good on paper till released. (I have one on order myself)

I've looked at the Weaver in person. The glass isn't terrible for the price and the illumination is ok also. The magnification range for the price is execellent too. It's a great buy for the money. My only 2 issues with the scope are reticule related. 1st, because it's FFP the reticule isn't very useful on 1x (to me) because the reticule is very small when dialed down. Second, the reticule does not match the adjustments (mil/moa). </div></div>

X2 on the reticle 'issues'... although depending on what kind of comps they are doing it will be an issue for very few I think. I have been playing around with a Vortex 1-4 PST that is SFP and while I like the scope, the reticle on it is WORTHLESS imho. Too small to even see subtensions much less when in a timed shooting event. If it was FFP it might be usable on 4X but as it sits right now, I think I like the Weaver better actually... And I run a 6-24 FFP PST on my comp bolt rifle and love it!

Mike

 

[prplhaz72]

Re: 1-4x for CQB to Mid-Range: Starting from Scratch

Out of your list I would pick the SS hands down. It has more features than any of those you listed. The Viper is not even in the same league. The Accupoint is a very nice optic, but it lacks some features the SS has that puts it above IMO.

I am a big fan of Meopta optics, but I don't think it has anything on the SS either.

 

[halowords]

Re: 1-4x for CQB to Mid-Range: Starting from Scratch

One follow-up question. Is there any that would work particularly well for close quarters kind of like a red dot sight would? My range where I will do most of my shooting is 10 to 300 yards. I'm most heavily considering (in no particular order) the Accupoint, SWFA SS 1-6x, Weaver, and Bushnell 1-6.5x, although that's subject to change. I know most aren't true 1x, however I'm pretty sure I can adjust.

-Cheers

 

[dgrifith21]

Re: 1-4x for CQB to Mid-Range: Starting from Scratch

Here's a vote for the Trijicon TR24. As a proud owner of an accupoint I can say that while some may say they are lacking in the reticle department, I think the green triangle BDC is exceptional for close to mid range. The accupoints are about as durable as can be, and it is very difficult to beat Trijicon's illumination. No batteries, and the tritium is more than sufficient for night time illumination, just get the green reticle, as it is the brightest of them all.

 

[HellsCanyonArmory]

Re: 1-4x for CQB to Mid-Range: Starting from Scratch

The Weaver with the illumination turned on will work great for CQB type stuff. Easily seen and acquired in sunlight and if shooting silhouettes at close range acquisition is easy and quick. I know the more I play with the Weaver the more I like it...

Mike

 

[33shooter]

Re: 1-4x for CQB to Mid-Range: Starting from Scratch

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheOneTwo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Out of your list I would pick the SS hands down. It has more features than any of those you listed. The Viper is not even in the same league. The Accupoint is a very nice optic, but it lacks some features the SS has that puts it above IMO.

I am a big fan of Meopta optics, but I don't think it has anything on the SS either. </div></div>

I disagree about the Meopta. The ZD 1-4 I used this year at the Texas Multigun Championship was as good as both SS 1-4s I've looked through. I think it's the most under rated 1-4. It is a slick scope, though a little over priced now.

 

[BigJimFish]

Re: 1-4x for CQB to Mid-Range: Starting from Scratch

I may have compiled some research on this topic. Here

 

[halowords]

Re: 1-4x for CQB to Mid-Range: Starting from Scratch

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJimFish</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I may have compiled some research on this topic. Here </div></div>

Thanks a million! A lot of good information there. I barely got into it, however it's already been very informative and I appreciate the effort you put into it!

-Cheers