1-8 LVPO or 2-10 MVPO for ar15?

[ychen]

I built an 18" Wydel lightweight AR15. I want some ideas for rifle scopes. Thank you.
I reload 223, so I can shoot bulk 55gr or 75gr boat tail hollow point.
I work 5 days a week, live in midtown, and don't have the luxury to hunt (maybe once a year).

Usages:
Mid-range training (lower cost on ammunition, may build 6.5 Creedmoor after I know how to shoot 500-800 yards)
Still capable of shooting at 25 yards. (I shoot with 2 eyes open, so 2x-3x magnification is kind of OK)
Lightweight.
No need to be super accurate, but still on the 16-18" target (500 yards - 800 yards if I can).
SHTF bug out
Focus on midrange, not CQB (CQB is 50/50 died)


Concerns:

with 24mm objectives LPVO leans, the parallax error is OK within 500 yards, but too big for 700-800 yards.
2 inches parallax error + 1 moa accuracy + slight windage error = miss in 700 yards
Should I go with Primary arms PLX 1-8x LPVO (17 ounces)?
Then I can shoot fast at close range, still capable of 500 yards, but not consistently accurate beyond 500 yards.
55gr 223 can be 500 yards of practical accuracy. 75gr 223 can be accurate at 700 yards with an 18" barrel theoretically.

https://www.lelandwest.com/parallax...onid=DE50D88AAD89F39CE0F45F8437D245DB.cfusion

Range (yards)​	Error (mm)​	Error (mil)​	Error (inches)​	Error (moa)​
100​	4.000​	0.044​	0.157​	0.150​
200​	4.000​	0.022​	0.157​	0.075​
300​	12.000​	0.044​	0.472​	0.150​
400​	20.000​	0.055​	0.787​	0.188​
500​	28.000​	0.061​	1.102​	0.211​
600​	36.000​	0.066​	1.417​	0.226​
700​	44.000​	0.069​	1.732​	0.236​
800​	52.000​	0.071​	2.047​	0.244​
900​	60.000​	0.073​	2.362​	0.251​
1000​	68.000​	0.074​	2.677​	0.256​

MVPO has 2-10x magnification, parallax adjustment, and weight of around 20 ounces. The focal plane doesn't matter, not sure about the reticle.
Then I can still practice midrange shooting with decent accuracy. But the 25-yard shooting will be slower than PLX 1-8x LPVO.

Searched the following scopes:
Night force NXS 2.5-10 44mm (21 ounces)
Primary arm Glx 2.5-10 44 mm (22 ounces)
Vortex PST 2.5-10 32mm (17 ounces, lightweight, but discontinued)

 

[BruceLeroy]

You're overthinking it. Neither is ideal for everything. Both are acceptable at most things. Nobody will be able to tell you what you want. If it were me I would just do an LPVo as it is less limiting on movement and close in. You can still make really long shots on threat sized steel really far with 6 or 8 power LPVOs, and I hate LPVOs. However, I realize their usefulness and utilitarian demeanor.

 

[Billl223]

I've only been shooting an AR-15 for 25 years. The longest I've shot is 700 yards. I liked a Nightforce SHV 4-14 and Bushnell LRTS 4.5-18. I'm not shooting the long distances today and am a running a 1-6.

 

[simonp]

The other questions that need to be answered are:

How old are you and how are your eyes? Do you need or will you need stronger glass shortly?

You talk about shooting out to 700 yards, what are you shooting? Large piece of steel or paper? You happy with hitting anywhere on the target or are you trying to get decent groups? If you are shooting just a big piece of steel at 5-700 and all you care about is hitting anywhere on it then either power will probably do you, depending on your eyesight.

 

[Tictacticaltimmy]

If the closest you will be shooting is 25Y I would go with an MPVO personally. At that distance the speed difference will be very small for open targets and you may prefer having 2-3x for smaller targets such as an upper A.

If you are planning on using this on a trainer for long range, an MPVO is also a big advantage because everything will be similar moving up to a dedicated precision scope

IMO the big advantage to having parallax adjustment is being able to resolve targets and their sorroundings better at mid-long range, eliminating parallax error is just a bonus.

 

[ychen]

The other questions that need to be answered are:

How old are you and how are your eyes? Do you need or will you need stronger glass shortly?

You talk about shooting out to 700 yards, what are you shooting? Large piece of steel or paper? You happy with hitting anywhere on the target or are you trying to get decent groups? If you are shooting just a big piece of steel at 5-700 and all you care about is hitting anywhere on it then either power will probably do you, depending on your eyesight.

I am 30, but I wear glasses and have bad eyes.
Just on the somewhere of the Steel or USPSA target, I don't expect a good group on AR15 at 700 yards. However I will try to tune the load to 1MOA.

 

[simonp]

I am 30, but I wear glasses and have bad eyes.
Just on the somewhere of the Steel or USPSA target, I don't expect a good group on AR15 at 700 yards. However I will try to tune the load to 1MOA.

Id vote for the 10x then

 

[Tictacticaltimmy]

For me an 8" plate at 500M is doable with my glx 2.5-10, but tough if conditions are rough. At that target difficulty I would hate to not have adjustable parallax or to have any less than 10x or any lower quality glass.

A USPSA at 700Y is almost double the target size in width alone so should be no problem for a 1-8 with good glass. I would still prefer an MPVO for the reasons stated above.

 

[BurtG]

Vortex 1-10
Nx8 2.5-20
Nxs2.5-10

Any of those would work great. The 1-10 would be better super close
The 2.5-20 would be worse close but much batter at distance.

 

[ychen]

For me an 8" plate at 500M is doable with my glx 2.5-10, but tough if conditions are rough. At that target difficulty I would hate to not have adjustable parallax or to have any less than 10x or any lower quality glass.

A USPSA at 700Y is almost double the target size in width alone so should be no problem for a 1-8 with good glass. I would still prefer an MPVO for the reasons stated above.

I have glx2.5-10 in my cart, It's slightly heavier than NXS 2.5-10, and the reticle is horseshoe.
Good for close range, but bad for dialing.
It's designed as kentucky windage style without dialing the turret.
I heard that it's OK within 800 yards, but not for long-range precision.

 

[Crang]

I have the NSX 2.5-10 on my do everything rifle a SCAR17. Get a lightweight mount and an offset red dot and the combo will still weight less than a number of LPVOs but you have everything from point blank to 800y covered.

 

[Tictacticaltimmy]

Yep. Thats why I dial D1 And use the 1mil post for precision work. This does mean you lose the zero stop and locking turret.

 

[Desert_Racer]

I have both a Razor 1-10 and ATACR 1-8. Both are great scopes, not true 1x, but good enough. Not having parallax adjustment is the downside at longer distances in my opinion, but not bad enough to not make hits.

The 2.5-10x having parallax adjustment is nice, but as others have said, quick up close shots kind of sucks. You can run an offset RDS for this. The illuminated MK5 2.5-10 is enticing and is probably light if its anything like the 3.5-18. I had an NXS 2.5-10 and hated the SFP design because I don’t want to do math for magnification ranges under 10x.

For an 18 inch AR, especially with a can, you might as well do the 2.5-10 or even a 3.5-18 MK5. The gun is going to be heavy(ish) and unwieldy anyways.

 

[ychen]

I have both a Razor 1-10 and ATACR 1-8. Both are great scopes, not true 1x, but good enough. Not having parallax adjustment is the downside at longer distances in my opinion, but not bad enough to not make hits.

The 2.5-10x having parallax adjustment is nice, but as others have said, quick up close shots kind of sucks. You can run an offset RDS for this. The illuminated MK5 2.5-10 is enticing and is probably light if its anything like the 3.5-18. I had an NXS 2.5-10 and hated the SFP design because I don’t want to do math for magnification ranges under 10x.

For an 18 inch AR, especially with a can, you might as well do the 2.5-10 or even a 3.5-18 MK5. The gun is going to be heavy(ish) and unwieldy anyways.

I bought Primary Glx 2.5-10x44 FFP. It looks great, very solid, lots of features.
Glass quality is enough for 1000 yards.
The horseshoe reticle can be picked up easily at 2.5x.

 

[wvfarrier]

I ran a 2.5-10×44 through several CQB courses. It worked pretty well but also allowed me to reach out in an Urban course.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I think you will regret trying to do too much with one rifle. For me personally, it's either a 25yd-500yd scope, or a 100-800yd scope. There just isn't anything that will go low enough and high enough to actually be usable from 25yds - 700 or more. I went through this very scenario and tried it and I ended up with 2 AR's . One with a vortex 1-10 on it, which is my all around kind of AR, and one with Vortex LHT on it, which is my precision AR. I'm super happy now with both set ups. You can also maximize barrel length for each that way but the glass issue was by far my biggest struggle trying to make one AR go from 25yds to 700 yds (that was my distance range I tried to work within). The vudu is a great lpvo Aldi, I just like the Vortex reticle a lot and the red dot brightness was also a big factor in my choice of lpvo. Might want to check out March offerings too.

 

[ychen]

I think you will regret trying to do too much with one rifle. For me personally, it's either a 25yd-500yd scope, or a 100-800yd scope. There just isn't anything that will go low enough and high enough to actually be usable from 25yds - 700 or more. I went through this very scenario and tried it and I ended up with 2 AR's . One with a vortex 1-10 on it, which is my all around kind of AR, and one with Vortex LHT on it, which is my precision AR. I'm super happy now with both set ups. You can also maximize barrel length for each that way but the glass issue was by far my biggest struggle trying to make one AR go from 25yds to 700 yds (that was my distance range I tried to work within). The vudu is a great lpvo Aldi, I just like the Vortex reticle a lot and the red dot brightness was also a big factor in my choice of lpvo. Might want to check out March offerings too.

This is my second ar15. The first one has a red dot + light.

 

[MK20]

The Trijicon 2-10x32 Credo needs to be mentioned in this thread.

 

[themightytimmah]

I much prefer the NF 2.5-10 over a LPVO (I’ve had Vortex 1-4, SWFA 1-6, Triji 1-8) on my AR. I’m not a door kicker, and it’s just a fun gun - I find I have a lot more fun with the finer reticle. All of the LPVOs I had were FFP and were chunky at max magnification.

If the reticle didn’t cover the target, it sure covered my near misses. With the 2.5-10 and the low recoil on an AR I can usually spot and adjust myself past 300 yds or so (and heck I don’t miss much under 300 yards, our steel is 3/4 IPSC or 8” gongs).

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

This is my second ar15. The first one has a red dot + light.

Roger that. I just meant that, imo it's not possible to have glass that will work well for close range as well as long range. I like my lpvo as much as the next guy, but honestly it's tough to shoot 500 yds with it unless conditions are perfect and it certainly doesn't "do it well". It's enjoyable to do with my higher power optic. At the same time, I can't realistically use my higher power optic the way I can use my lpvo in closer ranges. If you are looking for a scope that will actually work well for 25 yds to 700 I think you will end up wishing you'd either gone for the lower range of that or the higher range of that total range, vs trying to work in that total 70p or 800 yd range. Jmo

 

[Cutout]

It's all a matter of preference, so I can't tell you what will be best for you. In my case, I have an NXS 2.5-10 on my 18" gun. I have an NX8 1-8 on my carbine. I'm pretty happy with this setup. I don't find 2.5x problematic at all at 25 yards. Closer than that and given the choice, I'd rather have 1x or an offset dot. But you can make it work.

IMO, if the primary use is longer ranges with the ability for closer targets, the answer is MPVO. If the primary use is closer targets with the ability for longer ranges, the answer is LPVO. YMMV.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

It's all a matter of preference, so I can't tell you what will be best for you. In my case, I have an NXS 2.5-10 on my 18" gun. I have an NX8 1-8 on my carbine. I'm pretty happy with this setup. I don't find 2.5x problematic at all at 25 yards. Closer than that and given the choice, I'd rather have 1x or an offset dot. But you can make it work.

IMO, if the primary use is longer ranges with the ability for closer targets, the answer is MPVO. If the primary use is closer targets with the ability for longer ranges, the answer is LPVO. YMMV.

This is said better than what I said but this was the message I was trying to convey.

 

[Charmingmander]

Arguably you can't go wrong with an MPVO and top forward ring mounted dot if you're running NODs or canted dot if you are not. I've thought about doing this kind of set up on my DDM4 if I end up not going the LED ACOG with forward dot mount.

 

[chevy_man]

Parallax doesn't matter. If you have good consistent cheek weld you can shoot tight groups. It only matters if you're inconsistent behind the scope.

 

[hlee]

If you find yourself with too much low end mag for a snap shot on a close target (<25y?), put the aim point on the fuzzy thing in the distance and press the trigger.

At the same time, you’re unlikely (outside of a competition) to be making rushed shots from compromised positions at distant targets. Square up on the scope and parallax concerns are mostly eliminated.

1-8 v 2-10? A case can be made for either. If the primary use is 300y and up, I want a higher top end than 10x.

 

[st1650]

Surprised no one brought up the Athlon 2-12 Midas Gen 2. It’s very decent albeit a little bit heavy

 

[SporterII]

Had a 3-9 Leupold patrol illuminated TMR. Sold it. I am stupid.

 

[beetroot]

If you find yourself with too much low end mag for a snap shot on a close target (<25y?), put the aim point on the fuzzy thing in the distance and press the trigger.

At the same time, you’re unlikely (outside of a competition) to be making rushed shots from compromised positions at distant targets. Square up on the scope and parallax concerns are mostly eliminated.

1-8 v 2-10? A case can be made for either. If the primary use is 300y and up, I want a higher top end than 10x.

Maybe I'm not doing enough CQB (I'm doing exactly zero BTW) but I've never found 2x or even 2.5x to be notably slower than 1x past say 10yards.

Past 25yards if the target is smaller than say a half size IPSC then I find a bit of magnification helpful.

For hunting medium or small game, or shooting smaller targets, I personally see no downside to a MVPO.

 

[matt33]

I have a Vortex Razor 1-10x and a NF 2.5-10x on my AR's that I use for longer AR stuff, but like you I still like to be able to shoot close when needed. For me, the Vortex 1-10x is as good as anything I've tried for this role, I really like it. The NF 1-8 ATACR is also supposed to be awesome, but I've never used one in live shooting.

 

[One Holer]

I have an older Primary Arms SFP 1-8 and have rang steel on threat sized targets at 500 using 55 gr Hornady FMJ without any parallax adjustment.

 

[Burdy]

Concerns:

with 24mm objectives LPVO leans, the parallax error is OK within 500 yards, but too big for 700-800 yards.
2 inches parallax error + 1 moa accuracy + slight windage error = miss in 700 yards

​

Range (yards)​	Error (mm)​	Error (mil)​	Error (inches)​	Error (moa)​
100​	4.000​	0.044​	0.157​	0.150​
200​	4.000​	0.022​	0.157​	0.075​
300​	12.000​	0.044​	0.472​	0.150​
400​	20.000​	0.055​	0.787​	0.188​
500​	28.000​	0.061​	1.102​	0.211​
600​	36.000​	0.066​	1.417​	0.226​
700​	44.000​	0.069​	1.732​	0.236​
800​	52.000​	0.071​	2.047​	0.244​
900​	60.000​	0.073​	2.362​	0.251​
1000​	68.000​	0.074​	2.677​	0.256​

Your data is set for a 75y parallax. What LPVO has that?
Most are 100. Some are 200 and some can be factory set at 300.
If you find one you can factory set at 300, that would be most ideal if your concern is 500+

 

[wvfarrier]

A 2-10 can be used for close quarters with a little practice. The weight difference is the only real drawback.

 

[FredHammer]

Leupold VX5HD 2-10 is a great fast action blaster. 15yds smoke checking running hogs all good in the hood.

 

[Cotay]

Had a 3-9 Leupold patrol illuminated TMR. Sold it. I am stupid.

Don't be so hard on yourself. I had a Leupold VX-R Patrol 3-9x40 and sold it AND I had a PST Gen 1 2.5-10x32 FFP and sold it.

 

[Keith E.]

Leupold VX5HD 2-10 is a great fast action blaster. 15yds smoke checking running hogs all good in the hood.

You mean, you don't just shoot paper/steel?

Keith