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Re: 10/22 Trainer?
I use one, it seems most rifles are better than their operators. It's fun getting into position, adjusting NPOA and ripping off a rapid fire string. A paper target can sure let you know that you screwed up.
Then there's the wiley gopher, when the shooting is good the 10-22 is economical and effective.
I use one, it seems most rifles are better than their operators. It's fun getting into position, adjusting NPOA and ripping off a rapid fire string. A paper target can sure let you know that you screwed up.
Then there's the wiley gopher, when the shooting is good the 10-22 is economical and effective.
Re: 10/22 Trainer?
Only because I can't afford a 40X. I have a 10/22 in a B&C Tactical stock, 16 1/2" ER Shaw threaded fro my AAC Pilot, with a bunch of Volquartsen and Power Custom guts in it, topped with a Tasco Mildot 2.5x10 in standard Luepold rings and one piece base (minus really good glass I almost have the price of a 40x in it and that is with doing all the work myself). Shoots possibles at 50 yards and cats at much greater distances. I will break the camera out tomorrow and get a picture. Go to the rimfire section and scroll away or use the search function to find more 10/22 information than you will care to know about. The other option is go to rimfirecentral.com
Have fun, welcome to the Hide
Only because I can't afford a 40X. I have a 10/22 in a B&C Tactical stock, 16 1/2" ER Shaw threaded fro my AAC Pilot, with a bunch of Volquartsen and Power Custom guts in it, topped with a Tasco Mildot 2.5x10 in standard Luepold rings and one piece base (minus really good glass I almost have the price of a 40x in it and that is with doing all the work myself). Shoots possibles at 50 yards and cats at much greater distances. I will break the camera out tomorrow and get a picture. Go to the rimfire section and scroll away or use the search function to find more 10/22 information than you will care to know about. The other option is go to rimfirecentral.com
Have fun, welcome to the Hide
Re: 10/22 Trainer?
Clod,
Oh the wiley gopher, those are the days of fun. A pickup with a Yogi bear picnic basket and a couple bricks of .22's = fun for the whole family. I went to school at MSU and my brother has an outfit on the Smith out side of Great Falls. Now granted Elk, Mulies, and the ever pesky white tail are fun but a day filled with gopher slaying is hard to beat plus if you are lucky the corpses will bring in some larger fun at night. Clod I don't know what you do for work but you need to make sure it keeps you in God's country. I would not be opposed to a few safari shots of gopher hunts. It won't be long now and you should have a target rich enviroment.
Clod,
Oh the wiley gopher, those are the days of fun. A pickup with a Yogi bear picnic basket and a couple bricks of .22's = fun for the whole family. I went to school at MSU and my brother has an outfit on the Smith out side of Great Falls. Now granted Elk, Mulies, and the ever pesky white tail are fun but a day filled with gopher slaying is hard to beat plus if you are lucky the corpses will bring in some larger fun at night. Clod I don't know what you do for work but you need to make sure it keeps you in God's country. I would not be opposed to a few safari shots of gopher hunts. It won't be long now and you should have a target rich enviroment.
Re: 10/22 Trainer?
Platypus,
They are out now, at least a few when the sun is warm and the wind not to fresh.
I have not fired a shot at them yet.
Two weekends ago I was a R.O. for Montana 4-H shooting sports chanpionships. 500 kids with air guns and bows is a beautiful sight.
Last weekend I worked at local gunshow....everybody else was getting goodies and leaving in persuit of said gophs.
Maybe tomorrow.
As for leaving the area, well I hitchhiked here in '78 with a backpack and pair of skis, heard it was nice in bozo. likley to stick around till they haul me off to the ole folks home. Making log homes latley.
Platypus,
They are out now, at least a few when the sun is warm and the wind not to fresh.
I have not fired a shot at them yet.
Two weekends ago I was a R.O. for Montana 4-H shooting sports chanpionships. 500 kids with air guns and bows is a beautiful sight.
Last weekend I worked at local gunshow....everybody else was getting goodies and leaving in persuit of said gophs.
Maybe tomorrow.
As for leaving the area, well I hitchhiked here in '78 with a backpack and pair of skis, heard it was nice in bozo. likley to stick around till they haul me off to the ole folks home. Making log homes latley.
Re: 10/22 Trainer?
The Liberty Training Rifle
The Ruger 10/22® has been officially adopted by the RWVA as the Liberty Training Rifle (LTR)
As the cost of military surplus and new-production ammunition rises, and while supplies of the same are (at best) unreliable, many Appleseed instructors and attendees have noted a need for a cost-effective means of practicing marksmanship, especially at 25 meters. To this end, we have conducted extensive research and testing of many currently available products.
The following is a summarization of our findings and experiences in the development of the Ruger 10/22® Liberty Training Rifle.
The Appleseed Program promotes rifle safety and marksmanship, as well as knowledge of Revolutionary War history and grass-roots participation in the political process, especially as this relates to the preservation of the Second Amendment. Thousands of satisfied Appleseed attendees have proven that the marksmanship principles that the Appleseed Program teaches at 25m translate into accurate shooting at up to 500 yards.
Unfortunately, the rising cost of ammunition has hindered the participation of some Americans in marksmanship activities. Proficient marksmanship requires regular practice, though not necessarily at full-distance. Practice at 25 meters, fortunately, does not require a full-power centerfire battle rifle; for this distance, a .22LR rimfire rifle is all that is required. Moreover, many indoor ranges do not allow the use of full-power rifles, but .22LR rifles are permitted.
There are several accurate and durable .22LR rifles on the market today, but the Ruger 10/22 has proven one of the most successful. It is both affordable and accurate, and several aftermarket accessories have been shown to make it an ideal platform for a 25m training rifle. The components listed in this thread should not require any gunsmithing, and little mechanical aptitude is required to install them. In short, this is a true ‘do-it-yourself’ project.
This should help you build a rifle that can quickly be put into service at an Appleseed, be lent to someone at a local AQT shoot, and be used to practice at 25m (or even use in 25 & 50 yard CMP rifle competitions) - all with cheap .22LR ammunition. Also, it will give you a valuable tool to use to train new shooters, without subjecting them to the often-intimidating recoil of a full-power main battle rifle.
Which 10/22 should I use to get started? -- There are a lot of options: rifles, carbines, heavy-barrelled target rifles, even receivers that allow one to build a complete rifle with custom components. One of the most-popular options for many adult shooters is a 22” barreled rifle from WalMart, available for just over $200. Small-framed adults and children may prefer the slightly smaller 10/22 Carbine. Any 10/22 is a good starting point for your Liberty Trainer.
Okay, I’ve got my rifle. Now what? – The Ruger factory sights are not suited to fine adjustments. Fortunately, Tech-Sights (http://www.tech-sights.com/) produces several adjustable aperture sights for the 10/22. These sights allow simple adjustment for windage and elevation (windage adjustment requires the use of an AR-15 sight adjustment tool – also available from Tech-Sights). [For those of you who would like to be able to quickly and easily adjust windage on the Tech-Sight, DPMS offers the Rapidex knob, which replaces the standard, must-use-a-tool A1 windage drum (Part# UR-3981, $9). ]
On the 22 inch barrel rifle, each click of windage or elevation is .8 MOA. For most standard carbine barrels one click = 1 MOA (at least close enough for practical applications).
So why do I want Tech-Sights instead of some other sights? – You’re free to add whatever type of aftermarket sights you like, BUT the sight picture the Tech-Sights give you is very similar to the sight picture of the Springield M1A and the AR-15 rifles. Since these types of rifles are the ones many shooters use when shooting at full-distance, it just makes sense to use 10/22 sights that replicate the sights of their long-distance rifles. Plus, they are easier to adjust than many other types of sights are.
Williams are an alternative aperture-type sight, but do not give a sight picture as similar to your main rifle’s as the Tech-Sights do.
How do you take the original front sight off of the barrel? – One of our satisfied shooters says this much better than I can: “I laid the barrel on a piece of 2X4, put the punch on the left side of the sight down on the dovetail part of the front sight blade (not the base) and smacked it with a hammer two or three times. On my 10/22 the dovetail in the front sight base was a lot larger than the new Tech front sight. I had to use a center punch to raise up little dimples in the front sight base dovetail to keep the Tech sight from falling out every time I turned the barrel over... remember to use Locktite on the screws as they will come loose.”
The front sight is actually made to go in and be removed from one side. When installing sights, install from right to left. When uninstalling(removing) sights, remove from left to right.
What other parts should I add to my Liberty Trainer? –
1) A sling is a tremendous aid to accurate shooting, often improving group size by 50% or more. If your 10/22 has sling swivels already, you’re ahead of the game. If not, you need to add a pair.
Most Ruger factory sling swivels will not accommodate aftermarket sling swivels (the holes are a little too narrow). If you want to add the same sling that you have on your long-distance rifle, you’ll need to add a pair of 1¼ “ sling swivels (like those available from Uncle Mike’s) so that you can mount a US GI 1¼“ web sling.
You may have to use a drill or Dremel tool to widen the sling swivel holes very slightly. This should be the only time you’ll use a power tool during this project.
2) As it comes from the factory, releasing the 10/22 bolt from the locked-back position is a 2-handed operation, and is especially inconvenient when you’re firing from the prone position. The good news is, an aftermarket automatic bolt release only casts about $11 and is easy to install.
The CST Auto Bolt Stop (http://www.cstmtech.com) requires the use of specially modified magazines (using non-modified mags in a CST-equipped rifle may potentially damage the mechanism). Since the goal of this trainer is to get you out to the range (and not into the machine shop), you’ll probably be happier with one of the devices that doesn’t require you to modify your magazines.
3) The 10/22 magazine release is also difficult to manipulate. Without a doubt, an extended magazine release (the most popular cost about $5-$10) makes magazine changes faster. If your primary MBR is an M1A, the Bell and Carlson release is very similar in length to that of your MBR.
4) Many shooters report improved performance after installing target triggers in their 10/22 Trainers, and while this is not absolutely necessary, it does provide for improved accuracy due to lightening the trigger pull.
There are quite a few magazines available for the 10/22. Which magazines are the best? -- Butler Creek produces some well-regarded 10 round single-stack magazines which extend about 2 inches below the rifle, allowing a convenient grip for more-rapid magazine changes. Their Steel Lips magazines have proven to be nearly as durable as Ruger’s factory magazines. If you’re an M1A shooter, the Butler Creek 25-round magazines can be loaded with 20 rounds to simulate the M1A’s 20 round mags.
A device that allows you to attach 2 or 4 factory 10/22 magazines by their bases is a available from http://www.elmfg.com/store/ruger1022.html#Anchor-45980.
Is there any special modifications that are recommended for my ‘WalMart 10/22’? -- The only real difference between the standard receiver and the WalMart 22" version is that the WalMart receiver is painted both inside and out. This leads to rough operation and early fouling as the oil, powder, and rubbed off paint mix to form glop, (the technical term). If you strip the paint from the inside, just the top part, where the bolt and bolt handle rub, and polish the area with very fine sandpaper, you’ll find that the bolt is very much slicker to operate.
The standard black receiver should be fine, as they don't paint the inside of those.
Any other tips on constructing my 10/22 Liberty Trainer? –
1) “I've done a couple of these and in both cases I went back to the OEM Ruger trigger return spring. I found that the lighter Volquartsen spring will occasionally just not quite reset the sear. use the Volquartsen hammer spring, but stick with the factory Ruger trigger return spring. That's where mine is, with a decent 3-1/2 lb. trigger and 100% trigger reset reliability thus far.”
2) “You might want to consider fully bedding the barrel instead of free floating it. The 10/22 has a somewhat weak connection point between the barrel and the receiver. Free floating reportedly can lead to some POA/ POI and warping issues. On the other had, those who have firmly bedded it report exceptional accuracy gains. I know this sounds anti-intuitive, but this gun seems to prefer bedding vs. floating.”
I really don’t know how to disassemble my rifle to install these parts – No problem. There are some valuable resources available at http://www.alpharubicon.com/leo/triggerruger1022.htm . As a bonus,
this link (http://www.heypete.com/pete/shooting/rugermag.html) shows you how to disassemble a factory magazine for cleaning.
I’d like an adjustable stock, so shooters of all sizes can use my rifle – Several shooters have recommended 2 adjustable stocks: the Christie Super Stock (http://www.1022central.com/) and the T6 Stock for Ruger 10/22 (http://www.tapco.com/catalog.aspx?id=293).
Now get out to the range! And take some new shooters with you.
http://www.rwva.info/rwva%20pages/libertytrainingrifle.html
The Liberty Training Rifle
The Ruger 10/22® has been officially adopted by the RWVA as the Liberty Training Rifle (LTR)
As the cost of military surplus and new-production ammunition rises, and while supplies of the same are (at best) unreliable, many Appleseed instructors and attendees have noted a need for a cost-effective means of practicing marksmanship, especially at 25 meters. To this end, we have conducted extensive research and testing of many currently available products.
The following is a summarization of our findings and experiences in the development of the Ruger 10/22® Liberty Training Rifle.
The Appleseed Program promotes rifle safety and marksmanship, as well as knowledge of Revolutionary War history and grass-roots participation in the political process, especially as this relates to the preservation of the Second Amendment. Thousands of satisfied Appleseed attendees have proven that the marksmanship principles that the Appleseed Program teaches at 25m translate into accurate shooting at up to 500 yards.
Unfortunately, the rising cost of ammunition has hindered the participation of some Americans in marksmanship activities. Proficient marksmanship requires regular practice, though not necessarily at full-distance. Practice at 25 meters, fortunately, does not require a full-power centerfire battle rifle; for this distance, a .22LR rimfire rifle is all that is required. Moreover, many indoor ranges do not allow the use of full-power rifles, but .22LR rifles are permitted.
There are several accurate and durable .22LR rifles on the market today, but the Ruger 10/22 has proven one of the most successful. It is both affordable and accurate, and several aftermarket accessories have been shown to make it an ideal platform for a 25m training rifle. The components listed in this thread should not require any gunsmithing, and little mechanical aptitude is required to install them. In short, this is a true ‘do-it-yourself’ project.
This should help you build a rifle that can quickly be put into service at an Appleseed, be lent to someone at a local AQT shoot, and be used to practice at 25m (or even use in 25 & 50 yard CMP rifle competitions) - all with cheap .22LR ammunition. Also, it will give you a valuable tool to use to train new shooters, without subjecting them to the often-intimidating recoil of a full-power main battle rifle.
Which 10/22 should I use to get started? -- There are a lot of options: rifles, carbines, heavy-barrelled target rifles, even receivers that allow one to build a complete rifle with custom components. One of the most-popular options for many adult shooters is a 22” barreled rifle from WalMart, available for just over $200. Small-framed adults and children may prefer the slightly smaller 10/22 Carbine. Any 10/22 is a good starting point for your Liberty Trainer.
Okay, I’ve got my rifle. Now what? – The Ruger factory sights are not suited to fine adjustments. Fortunately, Tech-Sights (http://www.tech-sights.com/) produces several adjustable aperture sights for the 10/22. These sights allow simple adjustment for windage and elevation (windage adjustment requires the use of an AR-15 sight adjustment tool – also available from Tech-Sights). [For those of you who would like to be able to quickly and easily adjust windage on the Tech-Sight, DPMS offers the Rapidex knob, which replaces the standard, must-use-a-tool A1 windage drum (Part# UR-3981, $9). ]
On the 22 inch barrel rifle, each click of windage or elevation is .8 MOA. For most standard carbine barrels one click = 1 MOA (at least close enough for practical applications).
So why do I want Tech-Sights instead of some other sights? – You’re free to add whatever type of aftermarket sights you like, BUT the sight picture the Tech-Sights give you is very similar to the sight picture of the Springield M1A and the AR-15 rifles. Since these types of rifles are the ones many shooters use when shooting at full-distance, it just makes sense to use 10/22 sights that replicate the sights of their long-distance rifles. Plus, they are easier to adjust than many other types of sights are.
Williams are an alternative aperture-type sight, but do not give a sight picture as similar to your main rifle’s as the Tech-Sights do.
How do you take the original front sight off of the barrel? – One of our satisfied shooters says this much better than I can: “I laid the barrel on a piece of 2X4, put the punch on the left side of the sight down on the dovetail part of the front sight blade (not the base) and smacked it with a hammer two or three times. On my 10/22 the dovetail in the front sight base was a lot larger than the new Tech front sight. I had to use a center punch to raise up little dimples in the front sight base dovetail to keep the Tech sight from falling out every time I turned the barrel over... remember to use Locktite on the screws as they will come loose.”
The front sight is actually made to go in and be removed from one side. When installing sights, install from right to left. When uninstalling(removing) sights, remove from left to right.
What other parts should I add to my Liberty Trainer? –
1) A sling is a tremendous aid to accurate shooting, often improving group size by 50% or more. If your 10/22 has sling swivels already, you’re ahead of the game. If not, you need to add a pair.
Most Ruger factory sling swivels will not accommodate aftermarket sling swivels (the holes are a little too narrow). If you want to add the same sling that you have on your long-distance rifle, you’ll need to add a pair of 1¼ “ sling swivels (like those available from Uncle Mike’s) so that you can mount a US GI 1¼“ web sling.
You may have to use a drill or Dremel tool to widen the sling swivel holes very slightly. This should be the only time you’ll use a power tool during this project.
2) As it comes from the factory, releasing the 10/22 bolt from the locked-back position is a 2-handed operation, and is especially inconvenient when you’re firing from the prone position. The good news is, an aftermarket automatic bolt release only casts about $11 and is easy to install.
The CST Auto Bolt Stop (http://www.cstmtech.com) requires the use of specially modified magazines (using non-modified mags in a CST-equipped rifle may potentially damage the mechanism). Since the goal of this trainer is to get you out to the range (and not into the machine shop), you’ll probably be happier with one of the devices that doesn’t require you to modify your magazines.
3) The 10/22 magazine release is also difficult to manipulate. Without a doubt, an extended magazine release (the most popular cost about $5-$10) makes magazine changes faster. If your primary MBR is an M1A, the Bell and Carlson release is very similar in length to that of your MBR.
4) Many shooters report improved performance after installing target triggers in their 10/22 Trainers, and while this is not absolutely necessary, it does provide for improved accuracy due to lightening the trigger pull.
There are quite a few magazines available for the 10/22. Which magazines are the best? -- Butler Creek produces some well-regarded 10 round single-stack magazines which extend about 2 inches below the rifle, allowing a convenient grip for more-rapid magazine changes. Their Steel Lips magazines have proven to be nearly as durable as Ruger’s factory magazines. If you’re an M1A shooter, the Butler Creek 25-round magazines can be loaded with 20 rounds to simulate the M1A’s 20 round mags.
A device that allows you to attach 2 or 4 factory 10/22 magazines by their bases is a available from http://www.elmfg.com/store/ruger1022.html#Anchor-45980.
Is there any special modifications that are recommended for my ‘WalMart 10/22’? -- The only real difference between the standard receiver and the WalMart 22" version is that the WalMart receiver is painted both inside and out. This leads to rough operation and early fouling as the oil, powder, and rubbed off paint mix to form glop, (the technical term). If you strip the paint from the inside, just the top part, where the bolt and bolt handle rub, and polish the area with very fine sandpaper, you’ll find that the bolt is very much slicker to operate.
The standard black receiver should be fine, as they don't paint the inside of those.
Any other tips on constructing my 10/22 Liberty Trainer? –
1) “I've done a couple of these and in both cases I went back to the OEM Ruger trigger return spring. I found that the lighter Volquartsen spring will occasionally just not quite reset the sear. use the Volquartsen hammer spring, but stick with the factory Ruger trigger return spring. That's where mine is, with a decent 3-1/2 lb. trigger and 100% trigger reset reliability thus far.”
2) “You might want to consider fully bedding the barrel instead of free floating it. The 10/22 has a somewhat weak connection point between the barrel and the receiver. Free floating reportedly can lead to some POA/ POI and warping issues. On the other had, those who have firmly bedded it report exceptional accuracy gains. I know this sounds anti-intuitive, but this gun seems to prefer bedding vs. floating.”
I really don’t know how to disassemble my rifle to install these parts – No problem. There are some valuable resources available at http://www.alpharubicon.com/leo/triggerruger1022.htm . As a bonus,
this link (http://www.heypete.com/pete/shooting/rugermag.html) shows you how to disassemble a factory magazine for cleaning.
I’d like an adjustable stock, so shooters of all sizes can use my rifle – Several shooters have recommended 2 adjustable stocks: the Christie Super Stock (http://www.1022central.com/) and the T6 Stock for Ruger 10/22 (http://www.tapco.com/catalog.aspx?id=293).
Now get out to the range! And take some new shooters with you.
http://www.rwva.info/rwva%20pages/libertytrainingrifle.html
Re: 10/22 Trainer?
I built a 10/22 trainer for my AR 15 HB match /tactical rifle by adding a 24" stainless barrel from Green Mountain and a Bell and Carlson thumbhole stock. next thing is to do the trigger to approximate the feel of the Rock River arms match trigger.
I built a 10/22 trainer for my AR 15 HB match /tactical rifle by adding a 24" stainless barrel from Green Mountain and a Bell and Carlson thumbhole stock. next thing is to do the trigger to approximate the feel of the Rock River arms match trigger.
Re: 10/22 Trainer?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rich56</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I built a 10/22 trainer for my AR 15 HB match /tactical rifle by adding a 24" stainless barrel from Green Mountain and a Bell and Carlson thumbhole stock. next thing is to do the trigger to approximate the feel of the Rock River arms match trigger. </div></div>
Not to hi-jack the thread, but <span style="font-weight: bold">rich56</span>, you should check-out the <span style="font-weight: bold">"Tactical Solutions AR-15 M4 Upper Receiver/Barrel"</span>. You can drop it right into your existing lower, keeping the feel and balance, as well as the control locations pretty much the same as your actual AR 15 HB.
I now return us to the regularly scheduled topic...
Keith
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rich56</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I built a 10/22 trainer for my AR 15 HB match /tactical rifle by adding a 24" stainless barrel from Green Mountain and a Bell and Carlson thumbhole stock. next thing is to do the trigger to approximate the feel of the Rock River arms match trigger. </div></div>
Not to hi-jack the thread, but <span style="font-weight: bold">rich56</span>, you should check-out the <span style="font-weight: bold">"Tactical Solutions AR-15 M4 Upper Receiver/Barrel"</span>. You can drop it right into your existing lower, keeping the feel and balance, as well as the control locations pretty much the same as your actual AR 15 HB.
I now return us to the regularly scheduled topic...
Keith
Re: 10/22 Trainer?
Here is mine...
McMillan STC stock in forest camo, freeland rail in the forend.
Kidd SS barrel
Kidd adjustable 2 stage trigger
Modified Volquartsen mount base
Zeiss 1.8-5.5x38 scope w/ target knobs in Warne rings
Here is mine...
McMillan STC stock in forest camo, freeland rail in the forend.
Kidd SS barrel
Kidd adjustable 2 stage trigger
Modified Volquartsen mount base
Zeiss 1.8-5.5x38 scope w/ target knobs in Warne rings
Re: 10/22 Trainer?
Great looking rifle, <span style="font-weight: bold">wilshire</span> - I'll bet she shoots great too in the McMillan with the Kidd trigger and barrel. The Kidd trigger truly is the best!
Do I see an RT bolt handle and Ranch Products SS mag release? Looks like HD swivels on both the front and rear too!
Keith
Great looking rifle, <span style="font-weight: bold">wilshire</span> - I'll bet she shoots great too in the McMillan with the Kidd trigger and barrel. The Kidd trigger truly is the best!
Do I see an RT bolt handle and Ranch Products SS mag release? Looks like HD swivels on both the front and rear too!
Keith
Re: 10/22 Trainer?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TXBSAFH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Liberty Training Rifle
The Ruger 10/22® has been officially adopted by the RWVA as the Liberty Training Rifle (LTR)
As the cost of military surplus and new-production ammunition rises, and while supplies of the same are (at best) unreliable, many Appleseed instructors and attendees have noted a need for a cost-effective means of practicing marksmanship, especially at 25 meters. To this end, we have conducted extensive research and testing of many currently available products.
The following is a summarization of our findings and experiences in the development of the Ruger 10/22® Liberty Training Rifle.
The Appleseed Program promotes rifle safety and marksmanship, as well as knowledge of Revolutionary War history and grass-roots participation in the political process, especially as this relates to the preservation of the Second Amendment. Thousands of satisfied Appleseed attendees have proven that the marksmanship principles that the Appleseed Program teaches at 25m translate into accurate shooting at up to 500 yards.
Unfortunately, the rising cost of ammunition has hindered the participation of some Americans in marksmanship activities. Proficient marksmanship requires regular practice, though not necessarily at full-distance. Practice at 25 meters, fortunately, does not require a full-power centerfire battle rifle; for this distance, a .22LR rimfire rifle is all that is required. Moreover, many indoor ranges do not allow the use of full-power rifles, but .22LR rifles are permitted.
There are several accurate and durable .22LR rifles on the market today, but the Ruger 10/22 has proven one of the most successful. It is both affordable and accurate, and several aftermarket accessories have been shown to make it an ideal platform for a 25m training rifle. The components listed in this thread should not require any gunsmithing, and little mechanical aptitude is required to install them. In short, this is a true ‘do-it-yourself’ project.
This should help you build a rifle that can quickly be put into service at an Appleseed, be lent to someone at a local AQT shoot, and be used to practice at 25m (or even use in 25 & 50 yard CMP rifle competitions) - all with cheap .22LR ammunition. Also, it will give you a valuable tool to use to train new shooters, without subjecting them to the often-intimidating recoil of a full-power main battle rifle.
Which 10/22 should I use to get started? -- There are a lot of options: rifles, carbines, heavy-barrelled target rifles, even receivers that allow one to build a complete rifle with custom components. One of the most-popular options for many adult shooters is a 22” barreled rifle from WalMart, available for just over $200. Small-framed adults and children may prefer the slightly smaller 10/22 Carbine. Any 10/22 is a good starting point for your Liberty Trainer.
Okay, I’ve got my rifle. Now what? – The Ruger factory sights are not suited to fine adjustments. Fortunately, Tech-Sights (http://www.tech-sights.com/) produces several adjustable aperture sights for the 10/22. These sights allow simple adjustment for windage and elevation (windage adjustment requires the use of an AR-15 sight adjustment tool – also available from Tech-Sights). [For those of you who would like to be able to quickly and easily adjust windage on the Tech-Sight, DPMS offers the Rapidex knob, which replaces the standard, must-use-a-tool A1 windage drum (Part# UR-3981, $9). ]
On the 22 inch barrel rifle, each click of windage or elevation is .8 MOA. For most standard carbine barrels one click = 1 MOA (at least close enough for practical applications).
So why do I want Tech-Sights instead of some other sights? – You’re free to add whatever type of aftermarket sights you like, BUT the sight picture the Tech-Sights give you is very similar to the sight picture of the Springield M1A and the AR-15 rifles. Since these types of rifles are the ones many shooters use when shooting at full-distance, it just makes sense to use 10/22 sights that replicate the sights of their long-distance rifles. Plus, they are easier to adjust than many other types of sights are.
Williams are an alternative aperture-type sight, but do not give a sight picture as similar to your main rifle’s as the Tech-Sights do.
How do you take the original front sight off of the barrel? – One of our satisfied shooters says this much better than I can: “I laid the barrel on a piece of 2X4, put the punch on the left side of the sight down on the dovetail part of the front sight blade (not the base) and smacked it with a hammer two or three times. On my 10/22 the dovetail in the front sight base was a lot larger than the new Tech front sight. I had to use a center punch to raise up little dimples in the front sight base dovetail to keep the Tech sight from falling out every time I turned the barrel over... remember to use Locktite on the screws as they will come loose.”
The front sight is actually made to go in and be removed from one side. When installing sights, install from right to left. When uninstalling(removing) sights, remove from left to right.
What other parts should I add to my Liberty Trainer? –
1) A sling is a tremendous aid to accurate shooting, often improving group size by 50% or more. If your 10/22 has sling swivels already, you’re ahead of the game. If not, you need to add a pair.
Most Ruger factory sling swivels will not accommodate aftermarket sling swivels (the holes are a little too narrow). If you want to add the same sling that you have on your long-distance rifle, you’ll need to add a pair of 1¼ “ sling swivels (like those available from Uncle Mike’s) so that you can mount a US GI 1¼“ web sling.
You may have to use a drill or Dremel tool to widen the sling swivel holes very slightly. This should be the only time you’ll use a power tool during this project.
2) As it comes from the factory, releasing the 10/22 bolt from the locked-back position is a 2-handed operation, and is especially inconvenient when you’re firing from the prone position. The good news is, an aftermarket automatic bolt release only casts about $11 and is easy to install.
The CST Auto Bolt Stop (http://www.cstmtech.com) requires the use of specially modified magazines (using non-modified mags in a CST-equipped rifle may potentially damage the mechanism). Since the goal of this trainer is to get you out to the range (and not into the machine shop), you’ll probably be happier with one of the devices that doesn’t require you to modify your magazines.
3) The 10/22 magazine release is also difficult to manipulate. Without a doubt, an extended magazine release (the most popular cost about $5-$10) makes magazine changes faster. If your primary MBR is an M1A, the Bell and Carlson release is very similar in length to that of your MBR.
4) Many shooters report improved performance after installing target triggers in their 10/22 Trainers, and while this is not absolutely necessary, it does provide for improved accuracy due to lightening the trigger pull.
There are quite a few magazines available for the 10/22. Which magazines are the best? -- Butler Creek produces some well-regarded 10 round single-stack magazines which extend about 2 inches below the rifle, allowing a convenient grip for more-rapid magazine changes. Their Steel Lips magazines have proven to be nearly as durable as Ruger’s factory magazines. If you’re an M1A shooter, the Butler Creek 25-round magazines can be loaded with 20 rounds to simulate the M1A’s 20 round mags.
A device that allows you to attach 2 or 4 factory 10/22 magazines by their bases is a available from http://www.elmfg.com/store/ruger1022.html#Anchor-45980.
Is there any special modifications that are recommended for my ‘WalMart 10/22’? -- The only real difference between the standard receiver and the WalMart 22" version is that the WalMart receiver is painted both inside and out. This leads to rough operation and early fouling as the oil, powder, and rubbed off paint mix to form glop, (the technical term). If you strip the paint from the inside, just the top part, where the bolt and bolt handle rub, and polish the area with very fine sandpaper, you’ll find that the bolt is very much slicker to operate.
The standard black receiver should be fine, as they don't paint the inside of those.
Any other tips on constructing my 10/22 Liberty Trainer? –
1) “I've done a couple of these and in both cases I went back to the OEM Ruger trigger return spring. I found that the lighter Volquartsen spring will occasionally just not quite reset the sear. use the Volquartsen hammer spring, but stick with the factory Ruger trigger return spring. That's where mine is, with a decent 3-1/2 lb. trigger and 100% trigger reset reliability thus far.”
2) “You might want to consider fully bedding the barrel instead of free floating it. The 10/22 has a somewhat weak connection point between the barrel and the receiver. Free floating reportedly can lead to some POA/ POI and warping issues. On the other had, those who have firmly bedded it report exceptional accuracy gains. I know this sounds anti-intuitive, but this gun seems to prefer bedding vs. floating.”
I really don’t know how to disassemble my rifle to install these parts – No problem. There are some valuable resources available at http://www.alpharubicon.com/leo/triggerruger1022.htm . As a bonus,
this link (http://www.heypete.com/pete/shooting/rugermag.html) shows you how to disassemble a factory magazine for cleaning.
I’d like an adjustable stock, so shooters of all sizes can use my rifle – Several shooters have recommended 2 adjustable stocks: the Christie Super Stock (http://www.1022central.com/) and the T6 Stock for Ruger 10/22 (http://www.tapco.com/catalog.aspx?id=293).
Now get out to the range! And take some new shooters with you.
http://www.rwva.info/rwva%20pages/libertytrainingrifle.html</div></div>
I realize this is an old thread from March '09, but I did find the above very interesting. I bought a couple birch stocked standard 10/22's last week for my son and I.
Without any prior knowledge of the above post we discussed how and what improvements we were going to do to the rifles, and it just so happened that we decided on 1 1/4" slings, as well as the TSR200 Aperture Sights from Tech-Sights.
We even discussed the ELM 10/22 Dual-Clip Holder, and VCL 10/22 Auto Bolt Release. Which we'll most likely be getting soon.
Our reasoning for going this route is really simple. We wanted a rifle with a few modifications that would allow us to practice all the shooting disciplines, (offhand, prone, setting, kneeling), with the capabilities of slow and rapid fire. In the Spring (if not sooner depending on weather) we plan on putting them to the test from 25 through 100 yards.
We have just felt the need to get back to some basic shooting with a couple .22 Rimfires. To make it more enjoyable we wanted something with a military flavor from yester'year you might say, just for the pure enjoyment of the shooting sports. We found the above post from this March '09 topic very interesting!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TXBSAFH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Liberty Training Rifle
The Ruger 10/22® has been officially adopted by the RWVA as the Liberty Training Rifle (LTR)
As the cost of military surplus and new-production ammunition rises, and while supplies of the same are (at best) unreliable, many Appleseed instructors and attendees have noted a need for a cost-effective means of practicing marksmanship, especially at 25 meters. To this end, we have conducted extensive research and testing of many currently available products.
The following is a summarization of our findings and experiences in the development of the Ruger 10/22® Liberty Training Rifle.
The Appleseed Program promotes rifle safety and marksmanship, as well as knowledge of Revolutionary War history and grass-roots participation in the political process, especially as this relates to the preservation of the Second Amendment. Thousands of satisfied Appleseed attendees have proven that the marksmanship principles that the Appleseed Program teaches at 25m translate into accurate shooting at up to 500 yards.
Unfortunately, the rising cost of ammunition has hindered the participation of some Americans in marksmanship activities. Proficient marksmanship requires regular practice, though not necessarily at full-distance. Practice at 25 meters, fortunately, does not require a full-power centerfire battle rifle; for this distance, a .22LR rimfire rifle is all that is required. Moreover, many indoor ranges do not allow the use of full-power rifles, but .22LR rifles are permitted.
There are several accurate and durable .22LR rifles on the market today, but the Ruger 10/22 has proven one of the most successful. It is both affordable and accurate, and several aftermarket accessories have been shown to make it an ideal platform for a 25m training rifle. The components listed in this thread should not require any gunsmithing, and little mechanical aptitude is required to install them. In short, this is a true ‘do-it-yourself’ project.
This should help you build a rifle that can quickly be put into service at an Appleseed, be lent to someone at a local AQT shoot, and be used to practice at 25m (or even use in 25 & 50 yard CMP rifle competitions) - all with cheap .22LR ammunition. Also, it will give you a valuable tool to use to train new shooters, without subjecting them to the often-intimidating recoil of a full-power main battle rifle.
Which 10/22 should I use to get started? -- There are a lot of options: rifles, carbines, heavy-barrelled target rifles, even receivers that allow one to build a complete rifle with custom components. One of the most-popular options for many adult shooters is a 22” barreled rifle from WalMart, available for just over $200. Small-framed adults and children may prefer the slightly smaller 10/22 Carbine. Any 10/22 is a good starting point for your Liberty Trainer.
Okay, I’ve got my rifle. Now what? – The Ruger factory sights are not suited to fine adjustments. Fortunately, Tech-Sights (http://www.tech-sights.com/) produces several adjustable aperture sights for the 10/22. These sights allow simple adjustment for windage and elevation (windage adjustment requires the use of an AR-15 sight adjustment tool – also available from Tech-Sights). [For those of you who would like to be able to quickly and easily adjust windage on the Tech-Sight, DPMS offers the Rapidex knob, which replaces the standard, must-use-a-tool A1 windage drum (Part# UR-3981, $9). ]
On the 22 inch barrel rifle, each click of windage or elevation is .8 MOA. For most standard carbine barrels one click = 1 MOA (at least close enough for practical applications).
So why do I want Tech-Sights instead of some other sights? – You’re free to add whatever type of aftermarket sights you like, BUT the sight picture the Tech-Sights give you is very similar to the sight picture of the Springield M1A and the AR-15 rifles. Since these types of rifles are the ones many shooters use when shooting at full-distance, it just makes sense to use 10/22 sights that replicate the sights of their long-distance rifles. Plus, they are easier to adjust than many other types of sights are.
Williams are an alternative aperture-type sight, but do not give a sight picture as similar to your main rifle’s as the Tech-Sights do.
How do you take the original front sight off of the barrel? – One of our satisfied shooters says this much better than I can: “I laid the barrel on a piece of 2X4, put the punch on the left side of the sight down on the dovetail part of the front sight blade (not the base) and smacked it with a hammer two or three times. On my 10/22 the dovetail in the front sight base was a lot larger than the new Tech front sight. I had to use a center punch to raise up little dimples in the front sight base dovetail to keep the Tech sight from falling out every time I turned the barrel over... remember to use Locktite on the screws as they will come loose.”
The front sight is actually made to go in and be removed from one side. When installing sights, install from right to left. When uninstalling(removing) sights, remove from left to right.
What other parts should I add to my Liberty Trainer? –
1) A sling is a tremendous aid to accurate shooting, often improving group size by 50% or more. If your 10/22 has sling swivels already, you’re ahead of the game. If not, you need to add a pair.
Most Ruger factory sling swivels will not accommodate aftermarket sling swivels (the holes are a little too narrow). If you want to add the same sling that you have on your long-distance rifle, you’ll need to add a pair of 1¼ “ sling swivels (like those available from Uncle Mike’s) so that you can mount a US GI 1¼“ web sling.
You may have to use a drill or Dremel tool to widen the sling swivel holes very slightly. This should be the only time you’ll use a power tool during this project.
2) As it comes from the factory, releasing the 10/22 bolt from the locked-back position is a 2-handed operation, and is especially inconvenient when you’re firing from the prone position. The good news is, an aftermarket automatic bolt release only casts about $11 and is easy to install.
The CST Auto Bolt Stop (http://www.cstmtech.com) requires the use of specially modified magazines (using non-modified mags in a CST-equipped rifle may potentially damage the mechanism). Since the goal of this trainer is to get you out to the range (and not into the machine shop), you’ll probably be happier with one of the devices that doesn’t require you to modify your magazines.
3) The 10/22 magazine release is also difficult to manipulate. Without a doubt, an extended magazine release (the most popular cost about $5-$10) makes magazine changes faster. If your primary MBR is an M1A, the Bell and Carlson release is very similar in length to that of your MBR.
4) Many shooters report improved performance after installing target triggers in their 10/22 Trainers, and while this is not absolutely necessary, it does provide for improved accuracy due to lightening the trigger pull.
There are quite a few magazines available for the 10/22. Which magazines are the best? -- Butler Creek produces some well-regarded 10 round single-stack magazines which extend about 2 inches below the rifle, allowing a convenient grip for more-rapid magazine changes. Their Steel Lips magazines have proven to be nearly as durable as Ruger’s factory magazines. If you’re an M1A shooter, the Butler Creek 25-round magazines can be loaded with 20 rounds to simulate the M1A’s 20 round mags.
A device that allows you to attach 2 or 4 factory 10/22 magazines by their bases is a available from http://www.elmfg.com/store/ruger1022.html#Anchor-45980.
Is there any special modifications that are recommended for my ‘WalMart 10/22’? -- The only real difference between the standard receiver and the WalMart 22" version is that the WalMart receiver is painted both inside and out. This leads to rough operation and early fouling as the oil, powder, and rubbed off paint mix to form glop, (the technical term). If you strip the paint from the inside, just the top part, where the bolt and bolt handle rub, and polish the area with very fine sandpaper, you’ll find that the bolt is very much slicker to operate.
The standard black receiver should be fine, as they don't paint the inside of those.
Any other tips on constructing my 10/22 Liberty Trainer? –
1) “I've done a couple of these and in both cases I went back to the OEM Ruger trigger return spring. I found that the lighter Volquartsen spring will occasionally just not quite reset the sear. use the Volquartsen hammer spring, but stick with the factory Ruger trigger return spring. That's where mine is, with a decent 3-1/2 lb. trigger and 100% trigger reset reliability thus far.”
2) “You might want to consider fully bedding the barrel instead of free floating it. The 10/22 has a somewhat weak connection point between the barrel and the receiver. Free floating reportedly can lead to some POA/ POI and warping issues. On the other had, those who have firmly bedded it report exceptional accuracy gains. I know this sounds anti-intuitive, but this gun seems to prefer bedding vs. floating.”
I really don’t know how to disassemble my rifle to install these parts – No problem. There are some valuable resources available at http://www.alpharubicon.com/leo/triggerruger1022.htm . As a bonus,
this link (http://www.heypete.com/pete/shooting/rugermag.html) shows you how to disassemble a factory magazine for cleaning.
I’d like an adjustable stock, so shooters of all sizes can use my rifle – Several shooters have recommended 2 adjustable stocks: the Christie Super Stock (http://www.1022central.com/) and the T6 Stock for Ruger 10/22 (http://www.tapco.com/catalog.aspx?id=293).
Now get out to the range! And take some new shooters with you.
http://www.rwva.info/rwva%20pages/libertytrainingrifle.html</div></div>
I realize this is an old thread from March '09, but I did find the above very interesting. I bought a couple birch stocked standard 10/22's last week for my son and I.
Without any prior knowledge of the above post we discussed how and what improvements we were going to do to the rifles, and it just so happened that we decided on 1 1/4" slings, as well as the TSR200 Aperture Sights from Tech-Sights.
We even discussed the ELM 10/22 Dual-Clip Holder, and VCL 10/22 Auto Bolt Release. Which we'll most likely be getting soon.
Our reasoning for going this route is really simple. We wanted a rifle with a few modifications that would allow us to practice all the shooting disciplines, (offhand, prone, setting, kneeling), with the capabilities of slow and rapid fire. In the Spring (if not sooner depending on weather) we plan on putting them to the test from 25 through 100 yards.
We have just felt the need to get back to some basic shooting with a couple .22 Rimfires. To make it more enjoyable we wanted something with a military flavor from yester'year you might say, just for the pure enjoyment of the shooting sports. We found the above post from this March '09 topic very interesting!
Re: 10/22 Trainer?
Joe,
The 10/22 can't be beat for what you are wanting to do with it. I have 22 rifles of all kinds & makes (Ruger thru Anschutz) but the 10/22 is my favorite.
Joe,
The 10/22 can't be beat for what you are wanting to do with it. I have 22 rifles of all kinds & makes (Ruger thru Anschutz) but the 10/22 is my favorite.
Re: 10/22 Trainer?
Wilshire,
Apprx how much does that setup weigh? That 20" tube balance out the McM stock well?
Wilshire,
Apprx how much does that setup weigh? That 20" tube balance out the McM stock well?
Re: 10/22 Trainer?
I expect our TSR200 Aperture Sights will show up today or tomorrow. Looks like I'll have plenty of time to install them, but getting to work with them will be a'while as over the last three days we've collected 21 inches of snow where I live.
I wish I could remember how those sighting boxes worked that we used in the Army when I was first introduced to these type of sights. If I could remember my son and I could run through some sighting exercises at home since we can't get to the range right now.
I expect our TSR200 Aperture Sights will show up today or tomorrow. Looks like I'll have plenty of time to install them, but getting to work with them will be a'while as over the last three days we've collected 21 inches of snow where I live.
I wish I could remember how those sighting boxes worked that we used in the Army when I was first introduced to these type of sights. If I could remember my son and I could run through some sighting exercises at home since we can't get to the range right now.
Re: 10/22 Trainer?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J-Hon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wilshire,
Apprx how much does that setup weigh? That 20" tube balance out the McM stock well? </div></div>
Not sure about the McM stock I have the same set up with the boyd stock and mine weighs in at 10lb-3.25oz
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J-Hon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wilshire,
Apprx how much does that setup weigh? That 20" tube balance out the McM stock well? </div></div>
Not sure about the McM stock I have the same set up with the boyd stock and mine weighs in at 10lb-3.25oz
Re: 10/22 Trainer?
i use a 10/22 as a training rifle also
i practice with it @ 100 yards and minimum magnification
i shot a bmg @ 1,000 yards for match shots
not that this is a exact match but the trigger is kind of poor on the 10/22 so it makes for great practice rifle
and its cheap to shot
besides my bmg is more accurate @ 1,000 yards than my 10/22 is @ 100 yards MOA to MOA
i use a 10/22 as a training rifle also
i practice with it @ 100 yards and minimum magnification
i shot a bmg @ 1,000 yards for match shots
not that this is a exact match but the trigger is kind of poor on the 10/22 so it makes for great practice rifle
and its cheap to shot
besides my bmg is more accurate @ 1,000 yards than my 10/22 is @ 100 yards MOA to MOA
Re: 10/22 Trainer?
Jumping on to your post, sorry.
Can you get target sights for the 10/22? BIL wants to get something to start shooting but wants to get into target shooting for Military Matches and wants to get used to the sights.
Thanks if anyone can help.
Chad
Jumping on to your post, sorry.
Can you get target sights for the 10/22? BIL wants to get something to start shooting but wants to get into target shooting for Military Matches and wants to get used to the sights.
Thanks if anyone can help.
Chad
