Sidearms & Scatterguns 10 mm, where to start

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schlaiek

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Minuteman
Feb 10, 2013
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Minneapolis
#1
I'm looking to get back into 10 mm soon. I previously owned a gen4 Glock 20 & 29. absolutely reliable and accurate enough for my purposes. but I just never loved Glocks so I moved on from them a few years ago.

fast forward to 2020 and I'm in the market, but not another Glock. All of the options I'm considering seem to have one or more glaring faults.

my purpose:
it'll primarily be a range toy, but could be carried while hunting/hiking. I don't do a ton of either, but carrying more than a 9 could be something I'd do in bear country. (no grizzles, I'm in MN) reliability is far more important than supreme accuracy. I won't be competing with this firearm, I have better options.

the smart play:
Sig 220. despite the feelings of others, I have 100% faith in Sig, especially their metal framed models. I've carried them for years (226/229/239) - expensive though for a single stack production model.

the other smart options:
Springfield XDM. I'm sure it's great, but I don't love plastic grips other then for EDC (I currently carry a 365) and I've no experience with the XD line. I also have reservations based on some of the corporate moves in recent years.

EAA = my only experience with EAA/Tanfoglio was my Dad's Witness in 45. it shot great, but had some serious reliability issues including a clacked slide. I love the CZ ergos, but I hesitate to buy - and then carry/pack a lemon. I've been told that modern EAAs are good to go, but I've no personal experience.


that leaves a raft of 1911s from $500 to many thousands. I haven't owned a 1911 since the mid 1990s (Colt gold cup).
there is a lot to love, history, aftermarket support, etc, but I'm hopelessly out of touch with this market. I'm not in the mind to drop $2000 on a handgun right now, so a Dan Wesson is out.

my frugal move would be to start with an Armscor and see how it goes. I've read mostly positive on this brand (other than Wilsons and Wessons, Colt, Sig, Ruger, SA, Kimber etc all see to have a similar approval rating among 1911 fans - some thing the SAs are great, others think they are crap)
 
#3
Ruger has the best offering on a 1911 platform in 10mm if you shop you might even get it under $700

the rock island guns are pretty good, but for the extra$150 I’d get the ruger. I have owned 2 colts and an STI in 10mm and the ruger has been reliable and less fickle straight out of the box then all three of the other pistols.
 
#4
The SIG P220 Elite in 10mm is probably your best option in single stack.

If you need double stack, I would look at either the STI perfect 10 or the Glock 40

Ruger makes a revolver in 10mm if you want ultimate reliability, but then you could just carry .44mag instead.

In the 1911 10mm pistols, you are probably going to be disappointed with the performance of things in the $500 range when it comes to feeding and shooting anything but the lightest target 10mm loads. If you want higher power 10mm loads, expect to have to do a bit of work swapping parts out till you get it how you like it, or buy one of the slightly better produced ones in the $700 to $1000 and up range.
 
#5
schlaiek said:
fast forward to 2020 and I'm in the market, but not another Glock. All of the options I'm considering seem to have one or more glaring faults.
Click to expand...
That’s why you should go 10mm Glock.

I’m just messing with you. I understand people don’t like Glock. Love mine. I own everything but the long slide G40.

But I do own a Rock Island 1911 in 10mm. I really like it to. I’ve only put about 100 rounds through it. No issues so far. Only reason I don’t shoot it more is I prefer my Glock.
 
#6
I have the sig p220 10 mm reverse two tone match elite. I carry it every time I’m in the woods hunting. I have never had any problems with it. I also had A dan wesson Bruin 10mm, I did have some problems with feeding, it could have been the ammo.
I would say that the Dan Wesson is a step above the sig as far as quality and fit. Trigger is amazing.
The sig is no slouch. 100% reliable over 2000 rounds. It’s very accurate. No problems hitting a 10” steel plate at 50 yards.
 
#7
I second the Ruger, SR1911 10mm. I have one as my daily carry ( in the mountains ) and it has been flawless. I put two hundred rounds through it before I started carrying it and no problem. Its heavier than a Glock.....but its a 1911.
 
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#10
For the last year I've been carrying a G20 in a Kenai chest rig. This is in grizzly country where I live. This is actually my first Glock, had never been much of a fan. I like this gun. It's damn accurate, tame recoil, and flat out just works. As a bonus, it's just enough to piss off a grizzly if needed ;)
 
#11
Why not just brake down and get a real bear gun if you want it to shoot bears?;)

As a bonus most big wheel guns are really fun at the range because the stalls next to you will open up and chicks dig them.
 
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#12
I'm just not a wheel gun guy. shot plenty of 44, it's just not something I want to invest in. plus, given the differences in training between a semi & wheel gun I'm much more comfortable with a semi. finally, I'm in MN. don't think we have any rampaging grizzles here. If I was in a location where bigger bears lived, I'd skip the handgun all together and get a 45/70 lever gun.
 
#13
Not to be sarcastic.
I found myself in a similar situation a few years ago.
I’m a 1911 fan and a 10mm fan. Problem is they are not optimized for each other.
Solution is go polymer. But that comes to Glock again. In my mind the Glock is simply better than the other polymers.
Long to short is I stuck with my 1911’s in 45 ACP.
Good luck to you!
 
#16
If you go 1911, get one that has a ramped barrel. They offer alot more case support over the non-ramped versions( colt delta elite). Not sure on ruger or rock islands, dw and kimber have ramped barrels.
 
#17
is there such a thing as a reliable extended 1911 mag in 10mm? my brain might be able to get around having 10 to 11 rounds (I know 8 is enough for anything I'd encounter) and I'm not opposed to extended mags...
 
#18
1911 if it’s purely a range toy, best make you can afford.

If there’s a hiking/carrying component to it (once or twice a year, 1911 would still be fine), go polymer for the weight and capacity, either the Springer or the Glock. Springer fits my hands much better (brother in law’s dad bought one in 10 right when they came out), Glock is probably a slightly nicer gun overall and definitely has the longer track record in 10. I have sold all my Glocks and have several Springers for whatever that’s worth; I shoot them much better.

Sig is kinda the weird one, lighter than the 1911 but less capacity than the polymers. Does everything a little or does nothing as well depending on how you look at it.
 
#19
I have the Sig 220 , S&W 610 with the non-fluted cylinder, no lock, and had a Colt Delta Elite.
Have put thousands of rounds thru the 610.
I have a S&W 625 also (45acp moon clipped)
Years ago I shot bowling pin competitions with the Smiths.
The 610 is very accurate. The 1911 guns with fairly warm loads , like how they used to make 10mm rounds, was pretty hard on the 1911's.
Frame and slide issues. Very snappy, muzzle jump unless you had a comped compensator on the barrel which most did for completion.
I don't know about the modern day 1911's and current 10mm loadings how they hold up.
The Sig I bought just because I liked the looks of it , It seems like a tank, and it's a 10mm.
Honestly I've only put 30 rounds thru it on my reloads with 180 g bullets and its been in the safe about a year.
That load ran about 1250 fps out of the 610 (6" BARREL). Its probably a little faster in the Sig 220 ( no cylinder gap).
The sig is heavy which will make a nice range gun , a little heavy to carry and a little fancy for a woods gun with rosewood grips etc in my opinion. Don't know about the Glock 10mm's , no first hand experience with those.
If your going to carry a lot may be a better choice with the polymer frame.
I'll tell you a nice shooting pistol is the HK VP 9. Shot a lot of 1911's in 45 asp and they have the best triggers but I was surprised how well I could shoot that VP 9 .
 
#20
schlaiek said:
is there such a thing as a reliable extended 1911 mag in 10mm? my brain might be able to get around having 10 to 11 rounds (I know 8 is enough for anything I'd encounter) and I'm not opposed to extended mags...
Click to expand...
I have a Wilson Combat mag for my SR1911, holds 9 rounds. Have a Wilson Combat mag well on it and the mag is pretty much flush with bottom.
 
#22
Years ago I had a S&W 1106. The thing just wasn’t very accurate. That gun was stolen when I was on a field problem. I’ve always wanted to replace my 10mm, but could never decide if I wanted a 1911, witness, or a Glock.
 
#23
Smith 1006, it's the tank by which all others are judged. AND just so happens...

I'm actually considering selling this one if you're interested, just PM me. I'm fair but I ain't giving it away and it comes with several mags, multiple recoil and action springs and a Milt Sparks VM2 rig, LNIB. Trij. adj. sights in factory "wings" that protect it. Very little wear. Took me some time to find one this nice with adj. sights.

This is the one you want if you want maximum power from a semi automatic handgun. Similar performance as a .41mag w/lighter weight bullets. This is the one that can handle the hot loads and the "real" 10mm ammo as it's called. I'd probably regret selling it and will probably change my mind soon so consider it an expiring offer to sell.

IMG_1196.JPG


A VERY solid IWB carry rig and yes, it conceals this howitzer just fine since it's a very narrow weapon.
IMG_1193.JPG


Good luck either way, nothing beats a good 10mm.
 
#24
I think the 10mm market breaks down into an interesting, and simple set of facts.

you have inexpensive well made high cap polymer options from Glock and Springfield. cheap, robust, but ugly.
you have inexpensive high cap models from Tanfoglio and Armscor. cheap, questionable quality, but pretty with nice ergos.
you have mid priced options from Sig, Ruger, Kimber, and Springfield that are low capacity, but are pretty and robust.
you have expensive options from STI and others that are pretty, robust, and high capacity.

so, what flaw is least important? ugly/bad ergos, questionable build quality, low capacity, or cost?
arg. why cant Sig, Ruger, Springfield, or Dan Wessson offer a high cap, high quality offering for +/- $1500?
 
#27
Back in the day of Bowling pin competitions if you shot a wheel gun it was a Smith with moon clips.

If it was a auto loader it was a 1911 of some manufacturer, Colt, Springfield, Kimber, or other custom 1911 platform guns.

I'm talking late 90's , I think the Last Second Chance shoot was 1997/98.

The 45ACP was probably shot by 80% of competitors, the rest 10mm,357, 45 winchester magnum, 38 super loaded hot.

It always a hoot to see a wheel gun beat a autoloader.

This one has been shot long and hard.

IMG_2530.jpg
 
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#30
I have a Kimber Eclipse in 10mm that I carry when hiking in the bear country. I was a disappointed with its reliability and called Kimber, I sent the pistol back to them and when it was returned to me it functioned flawlessly with all of the magazines all of the time. There are obviously more powerful cartridges but for me, training with a 1911 already, getting on target quickly and making successful follow up shots came more natural with the 1911 than my Glock or 629.
 
#31
schlaiek said:
I think the 10mm market breaks down into an interesting, and simple set of facts.

you have inexpensive well made high cap polymer options from Glock and Springfield. cheap, robust, but ugly.
you have inexpensive high cap models from Tanfoglio and Armscor. cheap, questionable quality, but pretty with nice ergos.
you have mid priced options from Sig, Ruger, Kimber, and Springfield that are low capacity, but are pretty and robust.
you have expensive options from STI and others that are pretty, robust, and high capacity.

so, what flaw is least important? ugly/bad ergos, questionable build quality, low capacity, or cost?
arg. why cant Sig, Ruger, Springfield, or Dan Wessson offer a high cap, high quality offering for +/- $1500?
Click to expand...

You forgot the originally relatively inexpensive but now expensive "original" 10mm pistols that are no longer made. Smith 10xx series and the Bren Ten (which I think somebody brought back to life recently?). I recall Bren Ten having problems but can't be sure, was a long time ago.

IMO Glock is the best all around 10mm hands down. Why? Besides capacity, general size and weight, performance and reliability, probably the #1 or #2 most accurate Glock (maybe tied with the G17L IMO/E) it's because the pistol's frame was originally designed for 10mm. The G21 .45 uses the same frame, but it's actually an overbuilt .45 on a 10mm frame vs. being a 10mm on an underbuilt, say, 1911 frame which was originally designed for .45. This, IMO, is the greatest flaw, I don't know what the least is.

It's no secret 10mm has more recoil with full power rounds than .45 nor is it a secret that it generates a lot of pressure and gasses. As to whether or not the 1911 frames are responsible for the state of the current recommended watered down 10mm loads is to blame maybe is a secret.

FWIW, I have that 1006 above and a G20 and a G29 --I kinda like 10's and Glocks. The G29 conceals well in a Milt Sparks VM2 but it's not as comfortable for daily wear as a G27, which is why I typically carry that. But the G29 is a far better pistol, it's easily the most accurate compact (technically it's akin to a G19, not a G26 despite looks) and it handles very well with standard loads, better than the G27 due to weight. Carry with the compact mag and a pinkie rest and use 15rd. G20 mags for backup. Whether you need 40rds. on you or not, the 2 extra mags do help with weight distribution on your hips.

You could conceal carry a G20 but it's mainly the grip and width that gives it away, it's hard to hide large grips, fat frames. It's why that 1006 conceals better than all of them, even the smaller G29. Thin is in for IWB carry.
 
#32
luv2hunt6 said:
I have a Kimber Eclipse in 10mm that I carry when hiking in the bear country. I was a disappointed with its reliability and called Kimber, I sent the pistol back to them and when it was returned to me it functioned flawlessly with all of the magazines all of the time. There are obviously more powerful cartridges but for me, training with a 1911 already, getting on target quickly and making successful follow up shots came more natural with the 1911 than my Glock or 629.
Click to expand...

Nice...
 
#34
Dewey7271 said:
Depends on what you want to spend.
For a 1911, the TRP RMR from Springfield is a terrific 10 imo.
Click to expand...
I'm going to jump in here on this. The TRP built on a "1911" platform but upgraded in stress areas that make it a really solid choice. It's not just a gussied up 1911 such as a Wilson (nice as they are). I'd go Sig as my second strong choice. The EAA's are also good.

That TRP also comes in a 6" model that is outstanding although it's getting a bit heavy.

For bear medicine, I load 140 grain Xtreme penetrators over 13.5 grains of blue dot.
For people medicine, 15 grains of AA #9 pushing 180 grain gold dots.
 
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#37
Strykervet said:
It's no secret 10mm has more recoil with full power rounds than .45 nor is it a secret that it generates a lot of pressure and gasses. As to whether
Click to expand...

Thats why a comp on the barrel works so well , the recoil would go straight back with minimal muzzle rise allowing for fast split times
 
#38
I always wanted the Colt Delta Elite since it was first announce approx 20 years ago, and now its back.... I've got the EAA and it has been a great gun and no reliability issues - however its only been a range gun and less than 200 rounds down the barrel.

I feel like one 1911 is as good as another (assuming equal levels of quality components and machining). Of course your more expensive ones are going to be the best ones.

I've read that the 1911 and Glock suffer from breakage if used like a 9mm or 45. I don't know if that is true with the newer guns or not.

The heavier guns of beefier design have a better rumored history with the 10mm. Packing one of them around all day won't be much fun.
 
#39
Long Range 338 said:
I always wanted the Colt Delta Elite since it was first announce approx 20 years ago, and now its back.... I've got the EAA and it has been a great gun and no reliability issues - however its only been a range gun and less than 200 rounds down the barrel.

I feel like one 1911 is as good as another (assuming equal levels of quality components and machining). Of course your more expensive ones are going to be the best ones.

I've read that the 1911 and Glock suffer from breakage if used like a 9mm or 45. I don't know if that is true with the newer guns or not.

The heavier guns of beefier design have a better rumored history with the 10mm. Packing one of them around all day won't be much fun.
Click to expand...
Ummm....
Colt DE was first released in 1985. The one I have in the pic above is serial #DE01xxx. The first one in CA.
 
#41
I fired the STI 10mm a couple of years back. It seemed to be well made and I really wanted one - until I tried it. Heavy and not as accurate as my G20. Apparently, STI doesn't make a 10mm anymore or, at least, none are to be found on their website. I've only handled the Sig and XDM in the local GS but I'm still not ready to give up my G20. For packing around the farm, the accuracy, capacity and weight combo of the G20 is very tough to beat. If I need more power, then I'll accept the weight of a 4 or 5 inch heavy caliber revolver.
 
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#44
i bought the Rock Island TAC FS with the rail to carry on Kodiak during my Brown bear/ Blacktail hunt. I put several hundred rounds through t before i went, never had any problems with several brands of ammo ranging from cheap low power to the Underwood 220g hard cast. It is kid of picky about magazines, my factory mags work perfect but my Wilsons don't always lock the slide back when they run dry . I bought my son, who is stationed on Kodiak with the Coast Guard, a Kimber TLE in 10mm. He loves it and says its been flawless. I compared my Rock Island to his Kimber when i was there and the only thing i liked better on his Kimber is the night sights.
 
#45
like everybody else...
sig 220 or a glock 40

ive put 1000's of rounds through my 220 (45) and hasnt missed a beat

glock 40 gen 4 i think, not the same "quality" but runs underwood ammo with out a hitch. might toss a RMR or delta on the glock this spring. a few guys i know who have done it have really taken to it.

10mm recoil is not a 9mm but you get used to it. also not nearly as heavy on the hip as the 220.
 
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