I don't know if it was a fluke, but the last several Tikka's I held it seemed like the bolt wiggled when I pulled it back. Is that just how they are made or was there a problem? Is there a specific Tikka model that could also work for deer hunting? Would a 7mm Rem Mag work for competition? Could I reload LIGHT loads for deer?
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1000 Yard Setup
- Thread starter Mnhunter3982
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I don't know if it was a fluke, but the last several Tikka's I held it seemed like the bolt wiggled when I pulled it back. Is that just how they are made or was there a problem? Is there a specific Tikka model that could also work for deer hunting? Would a 7mm Rem Mag work for competition? Could I reload LIGHT loads for deer?
What recoil can I expect for a 300WSM or a 7mmWSM? This needs to double as a deer gun? Could I reload these to make it suitable for deer?
i'd not use one for a deer gun, they're not necessary.....just WAY over kill for either exercise.
i'd do the 6.5x284....run 142smk's or 140 a-max's for target stuff...and then 140 partitions or 120-130 TSX or the Hornady 129 interlock for deer/elk/yotes/etc...
i wouldn't want to shoot 1000yds with a deer rifle just as much as I'd not want to haul a 1000yd target gun around to shoot deer...
what's your budget for optics?
i'd do the 6.5x284....run 142smk's or 140 a-max's for target stuff...and then 140 partitions or 120-130 TSX or the Hornady 129 interlock for deer/elk/yotes/etc...
i wouldn't want to shoot 1000yds with a deer rifle just as much as I'd not want to haul a 1000yd target gun around to shoot deer...
what's your budget for optics?
It does not come with a mag.
Another $70.
For $200 I'd suggest this kit from that comes with the bottom metal and a mag, basically a knockoff of the Badger M5.
M5 Stealth DM M24 Detachable Magazine System - Funnel or Flush Models - *New Upgraded Mil-Spec Platform* (H.P. White Tested)
I put one in an HS Police stock with an AAC-SD barreled action and it works great, shares mags with my McRees chassis (AICS pattern mags).
Joe
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I would like to stay around $300 on optics. That doesn't leave many options. Keep in mind that I am NOT doing matches yet. I intend to learn to shoot that far first then I MIGHT do match. What kind of 6.5x284 can I find in my price range that can double for deer, has a box magazine, and a threaded barrel(or a barrel that can be threaded)?
Mnhunter3982
Congrats on your shooting skills; at 15 years old, you have a lifetime of practice ahead of you and at 240 lbs and 6.1, you are already "a big boy".
I have a PTG detach mag on a Remington PSS for about a year and it work well, so far no issues and I shoot often. The only other DBM I would consider is the Badger; more $$ but very reliable. For the price/reliability, the PTG is definitely a contender
I shoot .308 at 1000 with no problem, 10 hits out of 10 on 15"x25" silhouette, with reloads, or SMK GMM 175 BTHP, my friends are doing the same. In .308, we shoot with 700 PSS, 700 5R and Sako TRG 22. The 300 WM will reach your target easier, flatter, faster and harder.
We also shoot 7 SAUM and 6.5 Creedmoor in other rifles and these are awesome calibers, so good that it gets boring at 1000; some other calibers are good too.
Regardless of rifles and calibers, one important common factor is the glass, base and rings you will have on whatever rifle you are shooting, hard to go too cheap on these. If you do, you may not hit your target, or not for long.
If, as you say, the LR shooting "is not your thing" but you still want to have fun doing so, a used PSS or 5R would not be a bad choice, as well as some Tikka and Savage (always better if you can try the rifle before buying). Same for used glass, many brands have "Lifetime Warranty" so you would have your 6 covered in any case.
I do not know if ammo cost is a factor for you but you may want to look into this too.
For hunting purpose, you may want to look at the final weight of your rig, could be a factor too; you are 6' 1" and 240 lbs, you have a bit less to worry about than the "little guys" but carrying an heavy scoped rifle gets old for some hunters.
Not one easy answer but you will eventually find the "right rifle", as long as you are willing to compromise on some factors.
Good luck for your competition and good shooting
Ombre noire.
Why do people need cars that can go 140 mph? Those are what I would like....... But realistically I will have to compromise. I am thinking something like a 110 FCP HS Precision in .300 Win Mag
That's what I'd suggest. Then have it threaded and install a brake if you feel it needs it. That'll add about $200 for brake and Smith work, but it can be done later down the road.
Two different rifles, one took me to 1000y and the other made it easier, both under 900 and you could upgrade to a DBM when money allows.
Getting there
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...846-308-remington-tactical-work-progress.html
and doing it easier
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...56-update-243-remington-sps-varmint-105s.html
If I were to start over I’d also look at the 6.5cm or 260 from savage, predator max 10 and upgrade the stock when I could.
Getting there
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...846-308-remington-tactical-work-progress.html
and doing it easier
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...56-update-243-remington-sps-varmint-105s.html
If I were to start over I’d also look at the 6.5cm or 260 from savage, predator max 10 and upgrade the stock when I could.
that didn't answer my question though... you're really going to hurt your already limited budget by demanding a detachable mag system.... I understand you're still young and a novice and feel like you must have the end all be all tacticool rifle....but, for your use, that's the last thing you really need. you can save that extra few hundred dollars and put that towards a better scope...or reloading supplies...or loaded ammo.
I see your point. No I don't need a DBM. But if I got a Remington 700, its an add-on. But a Savage FCP-K it already has both a DBM and a threaded barrel at near the same cost. I was thinking this scope..... What are your thoughts
10-40x50 IR SWAT Sniper Scope by Barska - Swat Rifle Scopes by Barska
I already have a reloading set up, but only for .223 right now.
the savage would be a more accurate gun, from the get go already...so i'd choose it over the rem, for sure.
as for a scope....i highly doubt that barska would see much of anything at 1000yds...sadly. at a minimum...i'd look into the Vortex Viper series of scopes (Not PST..those are too far over your budget)..but even those are quite lacking for such long shots. I'm not trying to talk down to you and your choices....just giving an honest opinion coming from a guy taht was in your spot not long ago and made enough mistakes to have learned a LITTLE about putting the money where it really needs to be.
as for a scope....i highly doubt that barska would see much of anything at 1000yds...sadly. at a minimum...i'd look into the Vortex Viper series of scopes (Not PST..those are too far over your budget)..but even those are quite lacking for such long shots. I'm not trying to talk down to you and your choices....just giving an honest opinion coming from a guy taht was in your spot not long ago and made enough mistakes to have learned a LITTLE about putting the money where it really needs to be.
Try to look into your future before making any purchases. The Rem 700 action is one of the most versatile. If you were to get a Rem 700 .308, you could shoot it until the barrel falls off, and then get a new custom barrel to replace it. And when you do, get it trued and all that. In the meantime you can slowly add on to the rifle. Add an aftermarket trigger. Upgrade the stock (you can find a used Manners on here for $300 - $500). You'll have a custom rig by the time you graduate high school.
If you only want to spend $300 on a scope, check out SWFA. You can get a fixed 10, 12, 16, or 20 power for $299. SWFA Riflescopes SWFA SS Rifle Scopes SWFA SS Scopes SWFA SS MRAD Scopes The only downside to that is you can't adjust it down to offset mirage on hot days. May not be as big of an issue in MN as in TX.
If you only want to spend $300 on a scope, check out SWFA. You can get a fixed 10, 12, 16, or 20 power for $299. SWFA Riflescopes SWFA SS Rifle Scopes SWFA SS Scopes SWFA SS MRAD Scopes The only downside to that is you can't adjust it down to offset mirage on hot days. May not be as big of an issue in MN as in TX.
I just assume that everyone is trying to help since I can't read sarcasm. Ha. I knew the Barska's are not top of the line. What is the difference between the Vortex Viper and the Viper HS?
By your user name it appears your from Minnesota. If so I would go to some of the local matches and leagues and see first hand what people are using. If you are anywhere near Elk River they have a Monday night 600yard F class league and they are very friendly and helpful to new shooters.
My personal opinion ( and that is all your getting from anyone here ) is if you want a dual purpose rifle get a Savage in 6.5 Creedmoor. It is light enough to hunt with and mild enough not to beat you up especially if you add a bipod, big heavy scope. heavy cheek rest and few other things you will leave at home when you go hunting.
My personal opinion ( and that is all your getting from anyone here ) is if you want a dual purpose rifle get a Savage in 6.5 Creedmoor. It is light enough to hunt with and mild enough not to beat you up especially if you add a bipod, big heavy scope. heavy cheek rest and few other things you will leave at home when you go hunting.
So what I am hearing from this.... whether its a .260, 6.5 Creedmore, .308, .300WM, 300WSM, 7mmRM, 7mmWSM, 6.5x284, 6.5x47, or a 7mm-08.... It is just picking your poison. Rifle, scope, caliber, brand, or action. They are all close. Is there a way to take a poll here on the treads?
FYI...the m5 stealth from stockys is made by PTG and is the same thing as what the OP linked to.
Fair enough, but the kit at Stocky's comes with a mag, without which the bottom metal is useless and from time to time they are hard to find.
Joe
Joe
Here's the scope I was mentioning earlier, and it's right at the price point you were looking for. Sniper's Hide reviewed this scope some time ago, and there's a link to that video review in the page I'm sending you. The scope served me well on my precision rifle for 3 years, and is now doing nice work atop one of my .22's. It has a MIL based reticle with MIL based turrets (it's nice to have these matching), and it has adjustable "tactical style" knobs, as opposed to the hunting style you're probably most accustomed to. The glass is really nice for the price point, and I never had any real issues with the scope.
The one drawback I can think of is the fact that it is a 1-inch tube, which tends to limit your adjustment range when compared to 30mm and 34mm tubes (but, honestly, I don't know of a decent $300 scope that's available in anything other than a 1-inch tube). Regardless, a run of the mill 20moa canted base should still get you to 1,000 yards with this scope:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/59...mm-1-10-mil-adjustments-mil-dot-reticle-matte
Again, you may want to look into the Tikka line of rifles, given your requirements. They're the budget version of a Sako rifle, and are made in the same facility and on the same equipment as the Sakos. Mine has a detachable magazine, is damn accurate for the price, and does great double duty as a hunting rifle. I don't know if the "Scout Compact Tactical Rifle" that I have is still being produced, but it was virtually identical to their line of "Varmint" rifles I've still seen in stores (I think the only difference is that they screwed a Picatinny rail onto mine before shipping it to the store -- you could do that yourself if you wanted, and get the canted base right away).
Seriously though, think about some of the suggestions you're getting around here on the recoil, even despite your size. It seems like I've shot damn near every cartridge out there, from light plinkers to punishing lightweight safari rifles. Anyone can take recoil for a couple of shots, and it isn't necessarily just an issue of sheer mass or toughness. Just figure that if you're looking at playing in the precision long-range game, you'll be spending a LOT of time proned out behind a rifle shooting shot after shot. It can wear on you.
For instance, I always considered a .308 to be a light recoiling gun. But, I've left the range with a bruised shoulder on a number of occasions after shooting my .308 precision rifle. I can't remember my total weight with the new scope/mount (it's definitely heavier), but I was originally running a gun that came dressed out right around 9lbs with a scope, bipod, sling, and magazine. After a long range session shooting 175grain bullets it sure didn't feel like the .308 was as light on the recoil as I always regarded it.
Heavy magnum calibers can really beat you up. They're great for some applications, but as others have already said, they can cause you to develop bad habits... even if you are big/tough enough to take a hit (and I'm sure you are -- I felt invincible at your age, personally).
One last (and in my mind very important) consideration for you as a new shooter: the big magnums and screaming fast rounds typically seem to burn barrels a lot faster than some of the more mild/classic cartridges. If you want to get good you'll need to shoot a LOT (as I'm sure you already know from shotgunning). The .308 is a versatile cartridge that tends to give very long barrel life. The ultra magnums tend to be on the opposite end of the spectrum.
The one drawback I can think of is the fact that it is a 1-inch tube, which tends to limit your adjustment range when compared to 30mm and 34mm tubes (but, honestly, I don't know of a decent $300 scope that's available in anything other than a 1-inch tube). Regardless, a run of the mill 20moa canted base should still get you to 1,000 yards with this scope:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/59...mm-1-10-mil-adjustments-mil-dot-reticle-matte
Again, you may want to look into the Tikka line of rifles, given your requirements. They're the budget version of a Sako rifle, and are made in the same facility and on the same equipment as the Sakos. Mine has a detachable magazine, is damn accurate for the price, and does great double duty as a hunting rifle. I don't know if the "Scout Compact Tactical Rifle" that I have is still being produced, but it was virtually identical to their line of "Varmint" rifles I've still seen in stores (I think the only difference is that they screwed a Picatinny rail onto mine before shipping it to the store -- you could do that yourself if you wanted, and get the canted base right away).
Seriously though, think about some of the suggestions you're getting around here on the recoil, even despite your size. It seems like I've shot damn near every cartridge out there, from light plinkers to punishing lightweight safari rifles. Anyone can take recoil for a couple of shots, and it isn't necessarily just an issue of sheer mass or toughness. Just figure that if you're looking at playing in the precision long-range game, you'll be spending a LOT of time proned out behind a rifle shooting shot after shot. It can wear on you.
For instance, I always considered a .308 to be a light recoiling gun. But, I've left the range with a bruised shoulder on a number of occasions after shooting my .308 precision rifle. I can't remember my total weight with the new scope/mount (it's definitely heavier), but I was originally running a gun that came dressed out right around 9lbs with a scope, bipod, sling, and magazine. After a long range session shooting 175grain bullets it sure didn't feel like the .308 was as light on the recoil as I always regarded it.
Heavy magnum calibers can really beat you up. They're great for some applications, but as others have already said, they can cause you to develop bad habits... even if you are big/tough enough to take a hit (and I'm sure you are -- I felt invincible at your age, personally).
One last (and in my mind very important) consideration for you as a new shooter: the big magnums and screaming fast rounds typically seem to burn barrels a lot faster than some of the more mild/classic cartridges. If you want to get good you'll need to shoot a LOT (as I'm sure you already know from shotgunning). The .308 is a versatile cartridge that tends to give very long barrel life. The ultra magnums tend to be on the opposite end of the spectrum.
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I strongly, strongly advise that you continue down that path and use it to learn the fundamentals of marksmanship and hone them to a sharp edge before branching out into other forms of shooting. What you learn there will carry over, if you are smart, into just about any other rifle shooting style except maybe pure benchrest.
PS, your size gives you no advantage in this game.
I mean 308 has the worst ballistics of the bunch 300wm is the most powerful/kicks the hardest 7mm ones are a good compromise the 6.5 rounds do just fine ande aren't as abusive so they are all better in different circumstances. I would get 260 or creedmore in an ar variant 7mmrm or 300wm in a bolt gun IMHO
Wait, can I use an AR style rifle in competition or is it strictly bolt??? If automatics are an option I would like to hear your opinion about the 6.5 Grendal.
A Savage in 6.5 Creedmore will excel at 1000 yards, kill deer with authority, and be easy on the pocket book. I can show you, and so can many others here, many dead bodies from 6.5 bullets. I handload 260, but the performance of the 6.5 Creed is almost identical, but there are plenty of rounds of Hornady ammunition available for the Creedmore. Not the case for the 260.
You don't need a 30 cal bullet to kill deer, and you should get the fundamentals learned on a light kicking short action before stepping into a belted magnum.
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I also reload, I am right now. How far is my potential range for a shot at a deer with a 6.5 Creedmore?
$1000 for a rifle and $300 for optics is the recipe for a very discouraging experience. Rule of thumb in precision rifles is the scope should cost as much as the rifle. Buy a well used Savage or 700 in your caliber of choice for $400, spend $500 on optics and $100 on a base and rings. It will be the limiting factor in performance and poor optics suffer from miserable resolution, shadowing, chromatic abberation, inconsistent quality and performance, inaccurate reticles, inaccurate color and contrast, inaccurate turrets...the list goes on. Cheap optics will make a $6000 rifle shoot like shit and cause nothing but frustration.
You're 15. Stop trying to have your cake and eat it too. When we were 15, we were shooting worn out hunting rifles handed down to us by our folks, but they helped us develop and hone the fundamentals of marksmanship so when we had the means to step up to something better, we could actually shoot it. Don't be the guy at the range with a tacticool rig who can't hit shit because he cheaped out on optics.
You're 15. Stop trying to have your cake and eat it too. When we were 15, we were shooting worn out hunting rifles handed down to us by our folks, but they helped us develop and hone the fundamentals of marksmanship so when we had the means to step up to something better, we could actually shoot it. Don't be the guy at the range with a tacticool rig who can't hit shit because he cheaped out on optics.
*Shoots at the sun*
But the ballistics on Hornady, Remington, ect only go to 500 yards. But I assume a 6.5 Creedmore can pass 500 yards. Heck I took a coyote this winter at 635ish yards with a .243
No one in the history of my family shot for recreation. If you read the forum you will see that this is just a set up to be ABLE to shoot 1000 yards, but not match yet. My father is a "shotguns and .22" man. I own the only centerfires and handguns in the last 80 years minimum of my family. I never had the opportunity to use a "worn out hunting rifle". I buy all of my own equipment, and with college coming up I can't afford a $5000 set up. But if I am going to spend $$$$ on a deer rifle, I would rather spend more and have a rifle that can do something my friends can't.
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Well, with a DA of 2000', or so, it's supersonic to 1400-1500 yards. That doesn't mean it carries the necessary energy.
Hunt half as far as you practice. I practice at 1000 yards so 500 is my limit on a deer. Coyote or hog, now that's a different story.
Hunt half as far as you practice. I practice at 1000 yards so 500 is my limit on a deer. Coyote or hog, now that's a different story.
The 6.5's (6.5cm or 260) will outperform a 308 when it comes to killing deer at distance... a 243 with the right bullet is no slouch either. If I had a deer at 600 yards I just had to take down and my choice of guns to use That I currently own it would be my 260 using a 140 A-max followed by 243 with berger’s 105 vld and then one of my 308's in that order... But I'd want to sneak in a hundred or so closer with the 308 unless the wind and weather conditions were absolutely perfect and it was a place I have known data for from previous shots in that location.
DA =Density Altitude
The lower the DA # the thicker the air is that the bullet has to pass through... Slowing it down faster.
DA =Density Altitude
The lower the DA # the thicker the air is that the bullet has to pass through... Slowing it down faster.
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It doesn't matter how nice the rifle is, if the optics are subpar it will never make it to 1000. A cheap, beat up 700 from a pawn shop with a good optic will outshoot a rifle 5x it's price with a shitty optic. 1000 yards is a long way out there and a $300 scope just won't get you there. The only real option is a Bushnell 3200 10x and you will be hampered by that magnification at that range.
The point is, another $200 on the rifle won't yield any gains in capability, but that same $200 invested into the scope will make all the difference.
What is a quality optic that would enhance the range that is somewhat reasonable. Such as a Nikon, Bushnell, or Leupold. Obviously optics like Zeiss are not options new, but I never heard of a "used Zeiss"
for that price you could get a SWFA SS. A fixed 10x would be fine. And from my experience in handling a Millet, I didn't like the glass quality and I have heard of tracking being an issue on a few different scopes.
Price that I paid
Remington Tactical 308= 525
B&C stock= 235
DNZ 20 moa mount= 125ish
Midway exclusive 5-15x44mm mil/mil vortex viper= 400 (on sale at the time)
Timney trigger= 125
Total 1410ish
My 243 is the same but cost closer to 600 for the rifle.
As for scopes, if you don’t mind a fixed power magnification look at SWFA. They have a known track record and are in the 300 dollar range. Look at Vortex for a reasonably priced variable and a known track record of service after the sale (lifetime warranty) but you will need to extend your purchasing power a little. The midwayusa exclusive would be ideal but it’s not available right now. If you get into this sport one thing you will learn is a good scope will stay with you while you move on to other rifles and/or change out barrels on rifles you keep. Buy quality, and if it doesn’t have a lifetime warranty don’t even look at it.
Remington Tactical 308= 525
B&C stock= 235
DNZ 20 moa mount= 125ish
Midway exclusive 5-15x44mm mil/mil vortex viper= 400 (on sale at the time)
Timney trigger= 125
Total 1410ish
My 243 is the same but cost closer to 600 for the rifle.
As for scopes, if you don’t mind a fixed power magnification look at SWFA. They have a known track record and are in the 300 dollar range. Look at Vortex for a reasonably priced variable and a known track record of service after the sale (lifetime warranty) but you will need to extend your purchasing power a little. The midwayusa exclusive would be ideal but it’s not available right now. If you get into this sport one thing you will learn is a good scope will stay with you while you move on to other rifles and/or change out barrels on rifles you keep. Buy quality, and if it doesn’t have a lifetime warranty don’t even look at it.
I would avoid that particular scope. They look good on paper but I went through 4(after Bushnell bought em) in a season. On two of em, the elevation turret stripped out and spun freely in the housing, another had a leak that filled the tube with condensation, and the power ring on the 4th failed along with DOA illumination.
Check thesamplelist.com. It's run by SWFA, a vendor on here, and they always have a solid inventory of used optics at fair prices from Aimpoints to airgun scopes all the way up to SB. They're 100% GTG
Falcon Menace has a nice budget optic in that range. Bushnell has turned a new leaf and are now a viable option. Good deals on used Leupolds can always be had. Don't fall victim to advertising like many of us have. You're better off with a solid optic from a quality manufacturer with fewer bells and whistles than a decked out, made in China piece that will frustrate you.
The name of the game in long range is eliminating variables. Variables in ammunition, the shooter and the system. A low quality optic will induce instability to the system, adding a variable. If you, your ammo and your weapon are squared away, then you know the misses are your fault. You won't have to check mounts, ammo, troubleshoot and blame your equipment; you make a correction in your fundamentals or wind call and squeeze again.
Don’t get sucked into larger power ranges, for 1000y IMHO, you want a scope with 10 power on the top end at a minimum, 12 is better, 15-16 is about perfect and 20 is perfect and more than I can use at times depending on the mirage. I own SWFA and Vortex. While there are others I don’t have experience with them other than the out dated Nikon tactical’s which are good and can be in your price range if you watch E-bay HOWEVER, they are out dated and I’ve heard mixed results about their customer service after the sale.
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Like this? What would you recommend for $500-600?
http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-16x42-Tactical-Riflescope-P53715.aspx
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Yes, but I’d go with the 12x
SWFA SS 12x42 Tactical Riflescope
on a fixed scope so I could hunt with it and a 10x
SWFA SS 10x42 Tactical Riflescope
if I was going to use it often for hunting.
500-600,
Ultimately I want this one
SWFA SS 3-15x42 Tactical Rifle Scope
and I think that would be ideal for you if your wanting to get into tactical/sniper type matches and double as a great hunting optic.
This is the one I have several of but I am not sure when/if they will get more
Vortex Viper HS Tactical Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 5-15x 44mm Side Focus
It says discontinued but I think they put that there because they were having a hard time predicting when they would get more…
SWFA SS 12x42 Tactical Riflescope
on a fixed scope so I could hunt with it and a 10x
SWFA SS 10x42 Tactical Riflescope
if I was going to use it often for hunting.
500-600,
Ultimately I want this one
SWFA SS 3-15x42 Tactical Rifle Scope
and I think that would be ideal for you if your wanting to get into tactical/sniper type matches and double as a great hunting optic.
This is the one I have several of but I am not sure when/if they will get more
Vortex Viper HS Tactical Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 5-15x 44mm Side Focus
It says discontinued but I think they put that there because they were having a hard time predicting when they would get more…
If I'm understanding what you're asking, then yes, that is normal. The bolt is unsupported in the rearward position, and lots of bolt action rifles have bolt play when the bolt is moved to the rearward position. The Tikkas are built on one action length (I believe), so the bolt throw is a bit longer in a .308 than it is in some other .308's. Perhaps you notice the "wiggle" more in that regard?
I somewhat agree with your sentiment in suggesting that too many shooters fail to invest properly in their optics (again, my optic cost FAR more than my rifle). But, I wouldn't downplay *some* of the cheaper scopes for a new precision shooter on a tight budget. My Weaver was a good scope for a few years, and I got a lot of mileage out of it. My buddy started with the Bushnell you mentioned, and he was happy with that scope as a starting place, too (they're very similar scopes except for the adjustable power on the Weaver).
Obviously neither of those choices (or any other $300 scope) is going to compare to a S&B, a Hensoldt, a Premier, a Steiner, a Nightforce, etc., but that doesn't mean that the OP can't buy one, gain skills, and have fun with decent results when starting out. The shooter always seems to be the weak point in the beginning anyway.
As far as the magnification, I definitely wouldn't call 10x ideal, but it is certainly usable at that distance (particularly for a guy on a tight budget who just wants to get started). Plenty of real-world sniper kills have been made at that distance (and beyond) using a 10x scope. Even a 12x S&B is still in primary use for that purpose today. Now, granted, the battlefield is a TOTALLY different environment, but I'm just pointing out that lower magnification scopes ARE often used at long distance. The range where I shoot usually shoot has really heavy mirage. We were shooting some p-dogs out there recently and I had to dial my S&B below 10x to really get clear shots at 600-750 yards.
Besides, "I want to shoot 1,000 yards" is the classic statement from every new precision shooter, and while there's nothing wrong with that desire, I think many new precision shooters often find themselves shooting at shorter distances for one reason or another. Even I find that I'm most often shooting to 600-700 yards, simply because that's the distance that is more readily available to me where I shoot the most. The OP may have a different situation, but that's also a factor worth considering.
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