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If your bullets were coming in sideways, you were nowhere near supersonic at 1000 yards, let alone Mach 1.18. Your bullets were probably going transonic at 800 yards or so to have time to get sideways by 1000 yards. I think your velocities are optimistic and Hodgdon shows an MV of 2660 with 180gr bullets, 45gr of Varget and a 24 inch barrel. My guess is that you are in the high 2500s with a 5gr heavier bullet and a shorter barrel. Always try to be very conservative in your calculations.
This is a sub-forum for F class shooting, no mulligans, and just like golf I've found that when the scores are kept they go up.
Can you do it 20 times in a row at 1000 yards?
My bad. I didn't realize that. I'll move along. I'm sure I can put conditions on your shooting for which you couldn't thrive. But Whatev. I'm a 3 handicap in golf... but I'm a better shooter...
I think what you are trying to say is that the Berger bullets lost stability at Mach 1.18, way before going transonic. I have a hard time believing that this is the case. As you know, the longer a bullet flies (supersonically) the more stable it becomes because its spin rate does not slow down while the overturning forces acting on the bullet diminish as the forward velocity decreases. It is my understanding that it is the actual transonic passage that may create a disturbance important enough to actually cause the bullet to tumble. The inherent stability of the bullet is a function of the distribution of the weight in the bullet, rather than its length alone. For instance, the 168SMK is very heavy in the back compared to the front (ogive) whereas the 175SMK's weight is much better distributed along the whole bullet. The 168SMK is the poster child for tumbling through the transonic passage, whereas the 175SMK will remain point on after going subsonic.
So, my point is that I believe your bullets were going subsonic way before 1000 yards, regardless of what the calculators say. If bullets tumble when they get below Mach 1.2 there would be a lot more reports of keyholing and I have yet to hear of one with the Berger Hybrids at 1000 yards in F-class competition. Did the pit crew ever complain about not hearing your bullets come in at 1000 yards?
Wow...I wonder how many shooters here shoot 1,000+ yards on the internet?
Wow...I wonder how many shooters here shoot 1,000+ yards on the internet?
WE ( BROTHER+12+/-5 FRIENDS ) SHOOT MOST WEDS.AT 1k YDS......USUALLY SHOOT AROUND 20 SHOTS.I`VE SHOT THE 2007 NATS.AND THE 2011.....NEVER REMEMBER ANYONE.....IN MATCHES OR PRACTICE.....RUNNING MORE THAN 5-6 "x"`S IN A ROW.....NEW TARGET IS 5" "x" RING AND 10" 10 RING...... SOOOOO...... IF YOU CAN SHOOT 20 X`S IN A ROW CONSISTANTLY @ 1k YDS.....
YOU CAN CLEAN UP ALL WORLD WIDE COMPETITION......
Wow...I wonder how many shooters here shoot 1,000+ yards on the internet?
Clmayfield
Youre right man. My bad. Mouth shut and on I linger. Cheers mate
Lawman
You just took me on a roller coaster ride through your brain and spit me out. Im a nug. Sorry man... Have a good one bud
I thought my chrono velocities were wrong, too. So I checked my drops at 300, 500, and 800 and back calculated velocities approximately the same as what my chrony was reading. Could be Litz's BC's are off for the 185gr Hybrids because even correcting velocity with my drops, it doesn't match up just right, but it is close enough.
The point I was trying to convey is that for these super long Berger bullets, velocities need to be well outside of the transonic region to remain stable. With a short barrel, you don't have much room for forgiveness. Even now, I would say that I am on the bleeding edge.
If I am currently at 2590 fps, my bullets must have a greater-than-book BC or my scope must be broken because my drops are 9.3 - 9.6 Mils where I am shooting (about 180 feet above sea level). JBM says my drops should be 10.2 Mils at 2590 fps and 1,000 yards. I am definitely not over 10 mils. Reloading book values are great, but between my CED M2 and ballistic calculations, I trust what I need to input into the program to get me there, and that is what I get. 1,000 yards is laser verified and the atmospherics come from Kestrel, so the only thing that could really be wrong is my BC. If that is off, then you're right, my velocities are off.
But again, the bigger point is that you need to get not just close to Mach 1.2 (1.18 rounds up, right?), but sufficiently above it to hit consistently at 1,000 yards. And that is before you can even think about wind effects.
One of my shooting partners started a little wager game last match and I am loving it, it makes every shot count .
$5 high X count
$5 high score
$5 for any five 10s in a row
$5 for five Xs in a row
-$5 for the lowest value shot
The last weekend we shot I came out even over the two matches we played.
I believe that there have been a total of three (3) clean 200's shot in F-TR since the target was changed in 2007. Phil Kelly at Butner(200-6 I think), Mid Tompkins at Camp Perry (I believe it was a 200-9, but don't quote me on that one) at Raton last yr. Three, out of all the rounds fired by all the shooters in the US over the last seven yrs, three have held 1MOA for 20 rounds.
I think my personal best run of X-s has never exceeded 3.
Clay, my comments about chromos had to do with personal experience. I had one that was consistently 200 fps off so I always wonder now.