108 eld-m exploding in flight

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

Alright fellas, shot a match at K&M today, and had magical bullets disappearing in flight. One of my squad mates took a video with his phone which clearly showed my bullet turning into powder at about 50y. Once the sun came up fully and we were aware of it, I was watching 70% (give or take) of my bullets detonating on flight. I had tested this load last week and in my 7 twist barrel, I was shooting 2978fps, but this morning the bullets that were making it to the target were flying high. After adjusting my dope to match, I was able to determine my mv was now about 3015. It is a bit warmer than it was then,more humidity, and on and on, so I'm surprised to see that much variation in an h4350 load, but there it was.

So, I said all that to get to the question. Who else is shooting 108 eld-m? What velocities are you shooting? I have about 500 of these bullets from this lot, and I'm fine with slowing them down a bit to shoot them, but of I have a bad lot of bullets, I'd like to know. Knowing this could save me considerable time and unnecessary expense. Thank you.

 

[db2000]

I gave up on the 147 ELDM in 6.5 PRC for the same reason. Had multiple bullets seemingly evaporate. Hornady acts like they’ve never heard of it. There’s tons of testimonies and posts on here and elsewhere. Move on to Berger or eldx.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

I gave up on the 147 ELDM in 6.5 PRC for the same reason. Had multiple bullets seemingly evaporate. Hornady acts like they’ve never heard of it. There’s tons of testimonies and posts on here and elsewhere. Move on to Berger or eldx.

I've not had great luck getting bergers to shoot in this rifle. Of course I cannot get my hands on any hybrids, and I've been told repeatedly that the vld and target bullets are very sensitive to seating depth, so that's probably what I need to play with, but the damn 108 eld-m was .3 with the first load I experimented with. 39gr h4350 and a 2.760 coal, and bam, ragged hole. I have about 500 more of them, so I will try slowing them down and shooting them. I could slow them down 150fps and they would still be respectable for prs.

 

[DIBBS]

Is your barrel possibly rough/worn? Round count?

As another poster stated numerous reports of Hornady bullets evaporating, and the company... ignores it /plays surprised even though it has been occurring for some time now<years>. I have not experienced this yet to my knowledge, but likely will since I am shooting hornady bullets in a couple flavors. That 7 twist at 3k velocity is likely causing the jackets to fail due to RPMs, and a rough bore could compound the issue stressing the jackets.

On a side note...

Range Report - Hornady 147 ELDM blowing up

Searched for 147 ELDM jacket separation or bullets blowing up/coming apart down range on here and one dead thread with 7 posts about the 147 and another on the 180 ELDMs. Over the past 2 weeks i've talked to at least 15 people who have experienced both factory Hornady 6.5PRC and reloads using...

www.snipershide.com

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

I went into this match with 900 rounds on the barrel. I shot all day even with the puff balls, so now it's at 990 give or take 2 or 3 rounds. If it's not smooth yet, it's going to be toast before it gets there.

 

[White Mamba]

No problem in my 6 creeds but i shoot 7.5 twist

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

And that .5 is 14% more rotation. I unscientificly believe at this moment that the 14% there is the difference. I think hornady even has loads in their book for this bullet up to 3200+ in a 6creed, (but don't quote me, I'm not looking at the book), so they don't think it will become popcorn at those speeds (whatever that is worth). I figure if I had a 7.5 twist, I would have had to think up a different excuse for my performance today..

 

[camocorvette]

In 6 dasher. 7 twist
Shot 700 or so through new barrel @2800-2850 fps
Every single one has hit the target or berm. No issues. At all.

P.s. I think there are more accurate projectiles out there in that caliber. For the price they are not bad.
Ymmv

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

In 6 dasher. 7 twist
Shot 700 or so through new barrel @2800-2850 fps
Every single one has hit the target or berm. No issues. At all.

P.s. I think there are more accurate projectiles out there in that caliber. For the price they are not bad.
Ymmv

That's the velocity range I'm planning on working down to. As long as they will hold together well, I'll load them. I started with a pretty mild load of h4350, but it has proven to be an issue. Running that slow might even buy me a little more barrel life.

 

[White Mamba]

I think all my 6mm rifles are proof barrels and have shoot anywhere from 2700- 3170 with no issues yet. You can try calling one of their techs and get their opinions as well . I dont think they offer 6mm in a 7 twist yet

 

[camocorvette]

My hopes are to extend barrel life with that velocity. The only reason I picked that velocity is it stacks rounds. Didn't see a need to continue up in powder.

 

[camocorvette]

And just realized mine is a 7.5 twist.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

I think all my 6mm rifles are proof barrels and have shoot anywhere from 2700- 3170 with no issues yet. You can try calling one of their techs and get their opinions as well . I dont think they offer 6mm in a 7 twist yet

You don't think who doesn't offer a 6mm in a 7 twist?

 

[White Mamba]

You don't think who doesn't offer a 6mm in a 7 twist?

I don't think proof offers a 6mm in 7 , just 7.5

 

[SupressYourself]

I've shot many hundreds at about 2950 with no issue, but that's an 8 twist.
I don't think the question about the rough bore was implying that it's too new. Towards end of life they can get rough due to fire cracking.

 

[Tokay444]

It’s a Hornady thing, but they promise they’ve never heard of it.

 

[JBattles]

I have a couple thousand 108s out of a 1:7 6BR at 2850ish without issue.

Do you have any other 108s from a different lot to try?

 

[Hickswr]

Had the same thing happen with 112 matchburners going 2950 from a 7 twist. The same barrel shot 108 EldM’s just fine though.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

I have a couple thousand 108s out of a 1:7 6BR at 2850ish without issue.

Do you have any other 108s from a different lot to try?

No, everything I have is out of the same lot. I suspect if I load these to 2850 they will do just fine. I am going to try that.

 

[Oryx]

Alright fellas, shot a match at K&M today, and had magical bullets disappearing in flight. One of my squad mates took a video with his phone which clearly showed my bullet turning into powder at about 50y. Once the sun came up fully and we were aware of it, I was watching 70% (give or take) of my bullets detonating on flight. I had tested this load last week and in my 7 twist barrel, I was shooting 2978fps, but this morning the bullets that were making it to the target were flying high. After adjusting my dope to match, I was able to determine my mv was now about 3015. It is a bit warmer than it was then,more humidity, and on and on, so I'm surprised to see that much variation in an h4350 load, but there it was.

So, I said all that to get to the question. Who else is shooting 108 eld-m? What velocities are you shooting? I have about 500 of these bullets from this lot, and I'm fine with slowing them down a bit to shoot them, but of I have a bad lot of bullets, I'd like to know. Knowing this could save me considerable time and unnecessary expense. Thank you.

post the video??

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

post the video??

He sent them to me, and I'll share them, but the quality of the videos I got is so bad that you'll think someone is showing you a Bigfoot proof video. On the originals on his phone you could count the pieces of exploded bullet.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

Well. It won't even let me post them

 

[JBoomhauer]

Screenshot the video.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

Screenshot the video.

What would that do?

 

[JBoomhauer]

Show a picture of the exploding 108…

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

Show a picture of the exploding 108…

Read what I wrote again. The video quality that of the videos that he sent me are so bad that you can barely tell that the people are humans. Zooming in far enough to see anything is impossible. On his original videos on his phone you could see the credit score of the birds flying by. I'm guessing they won't let you text HD videos.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

I can describe it for you perfectly though, I pull the trigger and a half second later somewhere between 20y and 100y, there is a white puff of smoke. If you remember the chalk golf balls they used to prank celebrities with, that's what it brings to mind, but much smaller.

 

[Baron23]

I can describe it for you perfectly though, I pull the trigger and a half second later somewhere between 20y and 100y, there is a white puff of smoke. If you remember the chalk golf balls they used to prank celebrities with, that's what it brings to mind, but much smaller.

Other vids of ELD bullets blowing up have been posted. Enough that we can know what it looks like which is exactly as you described: white puff ball about 50 yds down range.

What pisses me off is Hornady denying that it actually happens or that they have any reports from shooters on this. Total BS. And if they don’t acknowledge the problem then they will never fix it.

 

[fdkay]

Nosler 105 rdf

 

[phantomskittles]

I don't shoot 108s but I do shoot 88s in a 223. I know when I put it together I read of a lot of people blowing up ELDs. It seems to be safe you need to keep them under 300k rpm. Mine run about 290k and haven't lost any yet. Looks like yours are running around 310k. Would probably have to back them off to 2900 ish to be safe or use a 7.5 twist.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

I don't shoot 108s but I do shoot 88s in a 223. I know when I put it together I read of a lot of people blowing up ELDs. It seems to be safe you need to keep them under 300k rpm. Mine run about 290k and haven't lost any yet. Looks like yours are running around 310k. Would probably have to back them off to 2900 ish to be safe or use a 7.5 twist.

I figured I must have been right on the edge, because they didn't start popping until it warmed up a few degrees. The third stage.

 

[Hardholder439]

The answer is pretty simple and it is one I learned here. Can't remember which thread. The 7 twist is responsible. Any bullet RPM over 300K will blow up jacketed bullets. Bullet RPM = MV X 720/ Twist rate in inches. Your bullets are spinning at 306,308 RPMs. You should be using solids or get a 7.5 twist rate barrel. My 2 cents.

 

[JaoeyP]

I am using the 108s in a 7 twist but only run them around 2830- 250ish rounds in and no issues. My first GT barrel was a 7.5 twist and I was running SMK 107s at 2950. At matches I'd start getting a heavy bolt lift halfway through a stage so I slowed it down. I think even if they weren't vaporizing on you that you're likely running them hot enough that you'd be wearing your brass out prematurely.

Curious what type of rifling your barrel has. I've heard 5r are more susceptible to poofing bullets with higher twist rates and velocities.

 

[Namekagon]

Just curious, what’s the reason for running a 105/107/108 weight bullet in a 7 twist?

I shoot 107 SMK’s and they are awesome. But I chose an 8 twist for that. With a 7 twist, why not take advantage of the extra BC of a 115?

 

[JaoeyP]

Just curious, what’s the reason for running a 105/107/108 weight bullet in a 7 twist?

I shoot 107 SMK’s and they are awesome. But I chose an 8 twist for that. With a 7 twist, why not take advantage of the extra BC of a 115?

I prefer a 7.5 twist. The barrel I'm currently using I picked up as a closeout from PVA (it was a Black Friday special one of their customers backed out of). The price was awesome. All of their 6mm barrels are 7 twist.

I've shot 110 ATips and my precision wasn't any better and my scores certainly didn't improve (I'm a midpack shooter on my best days) so I stayed with 108s. Also I have a massive pile of them.

I'm sure some of the combos people are running are because it's what they could get their hands on when they bought their stash.

 

[cas6969]

Well. It won't even let me post them

I once heard of this site called yootoobe, let me see if I can still find it.

 

[CK1.0]

As has been said, 7T + 3000fps is known to be no bueno, generally speaking, 7.5T is where it's at for 6mm.

That said, it could possibly be how you seat your bullets?

There was a guy at my club who was having issues with Match Burners blowing up, and it turned out he was cutting into the bullet jackets when seating... he was being lazy/clumsy with his brass prep and was seating bullets without giving his case mouths a chamfer or really any attention at all. Just something to look at maybe.

 

[JBoomhauer]

As has been said, 7T + 3000fps is known to be no bueno, generally speaking, 7.5T is where it's at for 6mm.

That said, it could possibly be how you seat your bullets?

There was a guy at my club who was having issues with Match Burners blowing up, and it turned out he was cutting into the bullet jackets when seating... he was being lazy/clumsy with his brass prep and was seating bullets without giving his case mouths a chamfer or really any attention at all. Just something to look at maybe.

Any jacket shavings when seating is a hint.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

I am using the 108s in a 7 twist but only run them around 2830- 250ish rounds in and no issues. My first GT barrel was a 7.5 twist and I was running SMK 107s at 2950. At matches I'd start getting a heavy bolt lift halfway through a stage so I slowed it down. I think even if they weren't vaporizing on you that you're likely running them hot enough that you'd be wearing your brass out prematurely.

Curious what type of rifling your barrel has. I've heard 5r are more susceptible to poofing bullets with higher twist rates and velocities.

The brass doesn't look bad at all. No obvious pressure signs. It's really a mild load according to the hornady manual.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

Just curious, what’s the reason for running a 105/107/108 weight bullet in a 7 twist?

I shoot 107 SMK’s and they are awesome. But I chose an 8 twist for that. With a 7 twist, why not take advantage of the extra BC of a 115?

I have just been shooting what I have/can easily find. I had 600 of these laying around. About the same number of berger 105's. Figured either of them would work just fine, then buy something better after they are gone. I'm not about to knock anyone off any podiums, so the performance difference isn't really an issue for me right now..

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

As has been said, 7T + 3000fps is known to be no bueno, generally speaking, 7.5T is where it's at for 6mm.

That said, it could possibly be how you seat your bullets?

There was a guy at my club who was having issues with Match Burners blowing up, and it turned out he was cutting into the bullet jackets when seating... he was being lazy/clumsy with his brass prep and was seating bullets without giving his case mouths a chamfer or really any attention at all. Just something to look at maybe.

I've done full case prep, chamfer, debur, clean the pockets. I always do. Not suggesting that something I'm doing could be contributing, but it sounds like the velocity and the 7 twist are plenty without any help.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

Any jacket shavings when seating is a hint.

I've never noticed any.

 

[jbpmidas]

Different bullet, but I had some disappearing 88 ELD-M’s from my 1:7 22 Creedmoor. No idea what velocity was, but 300k RPM’s would be pretty easy with my combo.

 

[just browsing]

RPMs… pretty simple.

Most mfgs unofficially say 290k is the limit, but that’s pretty generous for Hornady in my experience.

Rough bore/higher round count do not help. Would recommend backing your speed down as others have mentioned or shooting a different bullet.

 

[D1gger]

A friend shooting production class with his MPA 6creed had the same issue. Hornady told him the twist was too fast, he needed to go to 7.5.
I had it happen to me with 168 ELDMs in a 308 with a 10 twist. I've moved on from Hornady unless it's the A-tip.

 

[Huskydriver]

Welcome to shooting eldm bullets
... Extrem lowdrag Disappear midflight

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

Welcome to shooting eldm bullets
... Extrem lowdrag Disappear midflight

That's amazing.

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

A friend shooting production class with his MPA 6creed had the same issue. Hornady told him the twist was too fast, he needed to go to 7.5.
I had it happen to me with 168 ELDMs in a 308 with a 10 twist. I've moved on from Hornady unless it's the A-tip.

That's what I'm shooting. It's an mpa built rifle with the curtis action. I am ready to order my next pre-fit, and they are really the easiest route to go, but they do not offer a 6mm pre-fit in anything but 7 twist. I guess I'll get acquainted with David Tubbs ordering process.

 

[Huskydriver]

That's amazing.

I have had issues with the 147s like alot of others and 225s so I quit shooting tube eldms...

Their 140 bthp match and 105s have worked great for me however

 

[JaoeyP]

The brass doesn't look bad at all. No obvious pressure signs. It's really a mild load according to the hornady manual.

If you're loading 39gr of H4350 you're over published max according to Hodgdon's load data- they list 38.1 as max. I don't have their latest manual sp I don't know what Hornady is publishing for a max load with H4350/108eldm.