1080P camera w/optical zoom for target camera: anyone using one?

[ronas]

Need camera that will work in a wireless system, that has a high resolution lens with at least I'm thinking a 20x zoom.

Systems I've seen do need contrast to see bullet hole. We are shooting at F class targets so we need to see 6mm and 223 bullet holes in a black target at 600 yards. This has been very difficult to impossible, at least so far to accomplish.

Not helping the situation is the layout of our range which is orientated with the front of the targets facing southeast. There are also a lot of tall trees that prevent good bright sunlight from shining on the targets, which is not helpful.

So I was thinking maybe someone might have same or similar problem and may have used a camera with a good optical zoom.

I will say I have used the regular wireless cameras and was able to see the bullet holes with the camera about 2 and 1/2 feet away from the target, but when I did this I had very little view of the 26"X26" target. As I recall all I could see was the X ring and a fair amount of the 9 ring. I don't mind putting the camera within 5' to 7' for F class target but I think 2 1/2 feet is asking for trouble.

 

[GracieSymon]

I am working on the same problem, and I share your concerns about placing the camera in “the line of fire.” My solution is to place the camera along the edge of the range, and 25 to 50 yards away from the targets. This solves the problem of the camera getting shot. Any shot that hit the camera would leave the range, and the shooter would have greater issues than shooting a camera. Placing the camera in that position places it about 50 yards or so away from the targets and this creates another set of challenges, however. To see the bullet holes a pan tilt and zoom (“PTZ”) camera is needed that can resolve a bullet hole under varying lighting conditions at 50 yards. This is doable, but the cost of the camera becomes a major consideration. I will be contacting various manufacturers of PTZ cameras to see what they recommend. Whatever their answer is I think it fair to assume that the cost of a system designed to operate is this manner will be substantially more than the cost of an off the shelf system such as a TargetCam Remote spotting system. I will post more information as I have it.

 

[Blackbrush]

Why not get a small piece of ar500 and make a shield? Put your camera directly in front of your target.

 

[ronas]

I am working on the same problem, and I share your concerns about placing the camera in “the line of fire.” My solution is to place the camera along the edge of the range, and 25 to 50 yards away from the targets. This solves the problem of the camera getting shot. Any shot that hit the camera would leave the range, and the shooter would have greater issues than shooting a camera. Placing the camera in that position places it about 50 yards or so away from the targets and this creates another set of challenges, however. To see the bullet holes a pan tilt and zoom (“PTZ”) camera is needed that can resolve a bullet hole under varying lighting conditions at 50 yards. This is doable, but the cost of the camera becomes a major consideration. I will be contacting various manufacturers of PTZ cameras to see what they recommend. Whatever their answer is I think it fair to assume that the cost of a system designed to operate is this manner will be substantially more than the cost of an off the shelf system such as a TargetCam Remote spotting system. I will post more information as I have it.

I glad there is at least one more person on this forum working on this issue. I am being helped by my brother who know way more about electronics than me; he's agreed to help me with this for the time being.

It's my understanding that the problem we are dealing with is money. He has dealt with systems that transmit information from cars to the pits, that information can be video from inside the car to how different systems are working on the car. He said we would need transmitter and receiver and camera. The equipment can cost thousand and thousands of dollars. That will not doubt not be the way I proceed.

Another choice might be a Panasonic CCTV camera. That camera would have to have either RCA or VNC outputs. I would also want camera to have at least a 30x optical zoom.

 

[Blackbrush]

There are many consumer HD quality camcorders that are battery powered of course w plenty of zoom. I have performed ladders at 500yds with my camcorder sitting on the ground behind an angled piece of AR500 merely 10yds in front of the target. I simply review the recording but I'd love to transmit and view live. Transmission is truly the only hurdle IMO.

 

[ronas]

There are many consumer HD quality camcorders that are battery powered of course w plenty of zoom. I have performed ladders at 500yds with my camcorder sitting on the ground behind an angled piece of AR500 merely 10yds in front of the target. I simply review the recording but I'd love to transmit and view live. Transmission is truly the only hurdle IMO.

I know of one guy in my club that does that; and it is helpful. But like you say ".I'd love to transmit and view live..." I'd like the live view too.

Does your camcorder have an RCA or VNC output on it?

 

[gasdoc09]

It's my understanding that the problem we are dealing with is money. He has dealt with systems that transmit information from cars to the pits, that information can be video from inside the car to how different systems are working on the car. He said we would need transmitter and receiver and camera. The equipment can cost thousand and thousands of dollars. That will not doubt not be the way I proceed.

You don't need to spend much money.

My target cam is an inexpensive 1280x800 PTZ IP camera and an Engenious ENH-202 downrange, connecting directly to either my iPhone (stills) or a laptop (video). Have tested it out to 900 yards. Works great. I have a second ENH-202 to use at the shooting position for longer distances (better antenna and transmit power than the laptop or phone). Using an ENH-202 on both ends should get the range out to a couple miles, not that I'm capable of hitting anything at that range.

The ENH-202 bridges were about $90 each. Add a battery for $40 or so and either direct wire it to the camera & bridge, or add a $25 DC to AC inverter, and you're done.

I park the camera about 10 feet from the target and put a piece of AR500 in front of it to catch stray bullets. The bridge is powered via POE from the battery so it sits quite a bit further away.

I'm looking at better cameras to use because the one I've got at 1280x800 isn't really enough for the postprocessing software to reliably pick out and mark hits. Up around 5 MP it gets better.

 

[GracieSymon]

Gasdoc09 your solution would be an eminently reasonable but for one restriction I have to deal with that apparently you do not. The club I shoot at doe not allow any steel downrange. Those of you form the Houston can probably guess what club I am referring to. Up to that limitation I agree with everything you have said. Subject to the camera to be used I came up with substantially the same solution you are using, albeit using different but similarly priced bridges. See Below.

A Point to Point Wireless Connection to Transmit Images of Bullet Holes on a Target at a 1000 Yards
A wireless point-to-point networked system so that an IP camera can transmit images of bullet holes on a paper target 1000 yards downrange to a viewing computer. The system will not be permanently installed and will be assembled and put it in place each time it is used. The camera side station will be mounted on a tripod approximately 5 feet off the ground and the viewing station will also be mounted a tripod in a similar manner.
To prevent the camera form being struck by bullets, the camera will be positioned along the side of the range approximately 40 yards in front of the target line. There will be a clear unobstructed line-of-sight from the camera downrange to the viewing station. The terrain on either side of the range is flat, clear, and unobstructed. There are three slightly built up mounds 600, 800, and 900 yards from the target. Each of these mounds is between 2 and 4 feet tall. There is a gently built slope on both sides of each of these mounds leading to the top of the mound.
Given the position of the camera relative to the target, it must be capable of resolving and displaying bullet holes the diameter of a pencil at a distance of 50 yards. The camera must also be able to pan, tilt, zoom, and focus remotely to view different targets. Currently I plan on using a Panasonic WV-SC385 camera with an outdoor housing (Security Systems | Business & Professional | Panasonic Global) and would welcome any other suggestions.
I plan on using a pair of Ubiquiti Nanostation M2s (airMAX | Ubiquiti Networks, Inc.) – one at the target station and one at the viewing station – to provide the point-to-point wireless network link. There is no power at the range and this system will run off of 12V batteries. I will use an inverter to power the POE injectors or power the components directly.
I have performed a power budget analysis and my signal operating margin is in excess of 40 Db. Ideally both antennas should be at least 12 feet off the ground to clear the Fresnel zone, but that should not be a problem.

Because of that restriction to prevent the camera from being struck by a stray shot my initial thought was to place the camera along the edge of the edge of the range, and 25 to 50 yards away from the targets as I described in my earlier post.
Recently a different solution occurred to me. If I can convince the club to install a trench 10 to 20 feet in front of the targets and about two feet deep a much less expensive camera can be placed in the trench. The camera would be positioned below grade where it would be protected from a stray shoot, and positioned pointing up at the target. A cable could be run from the camera along the ground to an antenna positioned on a tripod along the edge of the range.
I am would welcome any suggestions.

 

[radmcg]

gasdoc09 any chance of some photos of your set up? I am especially interested in your power set up. I get everything except the power. BTW I am no way tech or electrical savvy but I manage to trial and error a lot of stuff together. I was looking at the Bullseye for 549 (doable) and the Targetvision at 1200 plus with no software support (not so doable). The bullseye looks ok but bulky and archaic looking. Targetvision is small and compact but no real software support at almost 2 1/2 times as expensive. The analyzing software would be fine but if I could make a more compact set up like yours I would be fine with that.
AHA
Rad

 

[TahoeRider]

seeing black bullet holes on a black target is difficult. The ez solution that we have come up with is to put a flashlight behind the target shinning at the back. When a bullet creates a hole the light from the flashlight shines through allowing you to see it. A cheap flashlight sitting on the ground pointed up at the back of the target is about all it takes. We have a number of customers doing this who use black F-class targets. This gives you the live video through our system and is easy to setup/take down.

 

[AZ2000]

Rule number one to protect the camera, everyone that shoot's in our group has to shoot @ 500 yds and hit chosen size targets. Rule number two, same as one @ 1,000 yd. These must be aimed hit's not 25 rounds with 2 or 3 lucky hit's. These do not have to be bulls eye hit's just enough so we know the shooter is proficient and is not going to go off and hit the camera set at 21' off to the side of the target. If they can't do it, they have to practice until they can.
Target, we make all of our targets for the camera basically one color with grids, lines etc, to match target sizes that will be competition size when necessary. This was developed by me, so the hit was able to be seen on camera through the full spectrum of light during daylight hours. Paper is a bright lime green from Walmart or any crafts store for about a buck a sheet. We also will use Shoot n' See adhesive black round 12" targets which work fine, also with the lime green background. Bullet holes on the green area are covered by using the lime green backing paper from the 12" Shoot n'See targets. Initially we tried many different colors of papers and found this to work the best with the camera.

Hope this helps.

 

[F4D]

That target looks somewhat familiar................................................Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

 

[Blackbrush]

I still don't know why so many people go to such great lengths to locate the camera out of harm's way. Make a simple shield/deflector out of AR500 and put the damn camera right in front of the target. It sure makes it easier to see your holes.

 

[delixe]

I still don't know why so many people go to such great lengths to locate the camera out of harm's way. Make a simple shield/deflector out of AR500 and put the damn camera right in front of the target. It sure makes it easier to see your holes.

Unless the range you're shooting at does not allow steel targets.

 

[Blackbrush]

Perhaps a range could be convinced your camera (and shield) isn't a target per se.

 

[skiutah02]

I am new to this game and got tired of driving to the 600 yds target after 3-5 shots just to see what happened while I learned the ropes (and subsequently forgetting what adjustments I had made ). Maybe this solution might help those here.

Rather than place the camera close (making it a target) but potentially lose the ability to see holes by moving it out of harms way, I tried digiscoping (you can google this). I built a wireless camera system using a Raspberry Pi with a camera and mounted it to a cheap scope on a tripod. I place the tripod 20 ft or so off center and as close to the target that allows the lowest power (20x) of my scope to focus (50 ft or so). This gives me a live feed and the ability to record the session for later viewing, plus I should not hit the camera (even with 223 and 25 mph winds). The black on black can be an issue, but not because of the cameras resolution, rather the cheap optics of my scope ($25), I like to place butcher paper over the target and the white contrast really helps. I apparently killed a thread on SH discussing what I did here: http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...ices/197992-target-cameras-2.html#post2896418

I have made some modifications to make the system even better than I described. A basic system (less a scope/tripod) might be about $200 but will involve some programming skills.

 

[missed]

I have Been working on this also. Either with the raspberry pi board and camera. Or a IP camera and two Linksys routers, the Linksys router is one of the ones you can hack the transmit power on and with some higher gain antennas have enough band width at 1000 yards to support 5mp transmission. I have been using a ar500 shield on the camera and have it at the base of the target 5' back. Hopefully this winter I will get the whole thing up and running. I have a stack of parts and no time.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

 

[Deadshot2]

All this sounded like a good idea to me until I got to the "wireless" phase. Distance will be the issue and most wireless video equipment that works at longer ranges often requires a special FCC license or works in a band reserved strictly for Military.

Target cam offers a good 1k range unit for $750

Other's are available that are more in the $500 range. I watched one of these in operation and was amazed. It's not just the image, but the software that supports the system. This guy's unit allowed him to view his "hits" on a laptop screen and each shot was stored in sequence. Great for doing ladder tests at distance as well as adjusting fire.

By the time one adds up the expense for a DIY setup they have almost as much as an Off the Shelf unit, and still don't have the software that outlines your last shot with a blinking cursor/circle. That also stores each shot, and developing pattern, in it's own thumbnail on the bottom of the monitor for future review.

Some will mount the camera on a tall tripod and put it to the side of the line of fire. Most will place it on the ground in front of the target and just build a small sandbag berm. Fill the bags on site so you don't have to carry the weight of armor or filled bags downrange. By the time most rounds reach a 1k target they don't have much more energy retained than a pistol round's muzzle energy. OK, there are exceptions but most rounds up to 30 cal .


Want to go cheap? Just stake out a cheap video camera that will record an hour of video on an SD card. Set it up, shoot for a while, keeping track of each shot/load, etc. and replay the hits on the target.


Adding:

The system I watched in action was the Bullseye Camera System and the single cam 1k version is under $600.

http://www.bullseyecamera.com/

 

[jbjh]

1080P camera w/optical zoom for target camera: anyone using one?

If you can't use steel for a shield, six pieces of railroad tie stepped at a raking angle away from the shooter should suffice and can be made permanent.

With WiMAX, POE, wifi cantennas and the like, along with some cheap solar cells and batteries housed on site (or carted out at the start of the shoot day), none of this seems particularly onerous.

As for seeing the bullet holes, would polarization to create extra contrast, or an IR filter help?

 

[skiutah02]

All this sounded like a good idea to me until I got to the "wireless" phase. Distance will be the issue and most wireless video equipment that works at longer ranges often requires a special FCC license or works in a band reserved strictly for Military.

Target cam offers a good 1k range unit for $750

Other's are available that are more in the $500 range. I watched one of these in operation and was amazed. It's not just the image, but the software that supports the system. This guy's unit allowed him to view his "hits" on a laptop screen and each shot was stored in sequence. Great for doing ladder tests at distance as well as adjusting fire.

By the time one adds up the expense for a DIY setup they have almost as much as an Off the Shelf unit, and still don't have the software that outlines your last shot with a blinking cursor/circle. That also stores each shot, and developing pattern, in it's own thumbnail on the bottom of the monitor for future review.

Some will mount the camera on a tall tripod and put it to the side of the line of fire. Most will place it on the ground in front of the target and just build a small sandbag berm. Fill the bags on site so you don't have to carry the weight of armor or filled bags downrange. By the time most rounds reach a 1k target they don't have much more energy retained than a pistol round's muzzle energy. OK, there are exceptions but most rounds up to 30 cal .


Want to go cheap? Just stake out a cheap video camera that will record an hour of video on an SD card. Set it up, shoot for a while, keeping track of each shot/load, etc. and replay the hits on the target.


Adding:

The system I watched in action was the Bullseye Camera System and the single cam 1k version is under $600.

Bullseye Camera Systems - The Ultimate Target Camera, Shooting Camera and Long Range Shooting Camera

The setup I use does 1 mile-line-of-sight without issue and uses 802.11g for wireless. This should not be regulated by the FCC at normal power (see antenna from Amazon). If you think it is, could you point me in the right direction for reference? I find it a good solution for me as I can use my phone, tablet or laptop to watch the live feed and many others could also connect to the video feed simultaneously. If you followed my prior link, you'd see that I did suggest that a commercial system (like the BullsEye or TargetCam) are better options for those who are not inclined to tinker. Just trying to help the OP find another solution. Hope this helps, Drew

 

[Deadshot2]

The setup I use does 1 mile-line-of-sight without issue and uses 802.11g for wireless. This should not be regulated by the FCC at normal power (see antenna from Amazon).

You are correct and I stand corrected although you will require a license for any system over 1 Watt (1,000mw). I gave some thought to a setup like this over the last few years as I too am a tinkerer. At the time I was looking at more of an old school radio relay system much like what the TV Newscasters use. Hadn't really given much thought to "wireless" as my intended use was in an area with a huge amount of RF interference in that "band". Get away from the urban environment where there are no other unrestricted "hotspots" and the interference a non issue. I also don't care for the huge antenna's (Yagi) required for the low powered Wi-Fi system.

When I started adding the costs, and then trying to find a software solution like the BullsEye system ----- well, you know how that goes.

 

[missed]

The Linksys WRT54G routers can be tweaked with a firmware change. You can find the routers cheap, I'm getting 1000 yards with no issue right now. Still well under the licensed power range.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

 

[skiutah02]

You are correct and I stand corrected although you will require a license for any system over 1 Watt (1,000mw). I gave some thought to a setup like this over the last few years as I too am a tinkerer. At the time I was looking at more of an old school radio relay system much like what the TV Newscasters use. Hadn't really given much thought to "wireless" as my intended use was in an area with a huge amount of RF interference in that "band". Get away from the urban environment where there are no other unrestricted "hotspots" and the interference a non issue. I also don't care for the huge antenna's (Yagi) required for the low powered Wi-Fi system.

When I started adding the costs, and then trying to find a software solution like the BullsEye system ----- well, you know how that goes.

No problem. I do like the look of the commercial products, but for now I'll buy more reloading stuff...

 

[Hillpuller]

The Linksys WRT54G routers can be tweaked with a firmware change. You can find the routers cheap, I'm getting 1000 yards with no issue right now. Still well under the licensed power range.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

Can you tell me a little more about your setup? Are you using a yagi to get 1000 yards?