I have 1911s and I have 10mms but not a 10mm 1911. So who makes a good one and whose should I avoid. I like the Dan Wesson Kodiak, how good are those? I plan on shooting it, so looking for one that can take 10mm... So please school me on 10mm 1911s
10mm 1911s
- Thread starter elwarpo
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My one and only 10mm 1911 purchase is a Springfield TRP long slide with the integrated RMR red dot. The breech face was not fully cut on the opposite side of the extractor. It was so bad it prevented brass from going into a shell holder for reloading! Gun had to go back to them for repair. They did an ok job but you can still see a high spot so its not perfect by any means. Then the RMR was not properly secured and Loctited and came loose. Then the RMR ended up being defective. Trijicon had to replace it.
Fucking nightmare and lots of wasted ammo figuring all this out. Obviously this is not an endorsement!
Fucking nightmare and lots of wasted ammo figuring all this out. Obviously this is not an endorsement!
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Nighthawk is the highest quality maker with a significant dedication to 10mm. I am sure Wessons are good too.
I have had 5 Dan Wesson’s including a 10mm Razorback. Very good all of them up until my 4.25” Vigil. Nothing close to the others. Gritty slide stop. Out of spec mag release. Sent it in and got it back not improved. What a waste of shipping etc.
I think it’s a sign of the times. Buy an older lightly used DW with no issues. Worth what ever it costs.
I think it’s a sign of the times. Buy an older lightly used DW with no issues. Worth what ever it costs.
I will have a NHC Shadow Hawk someday but for now I have 2 Colt Delta Elites my old man left me. The First Edition doesn't get shot but the regular production one has been a trooper.
I'd probably just settle for a Rock Island because no matter how much you spend it'll still be a 1911. Another alternative is to find a used .40 1911 and have the barrel reamed to 10mm Auto.
Or you could just buy a G20 and take solace in the fact that it'll work and won't be a POS.
Or you could just buy a G20 and take solace in the fact that it'll work and won't be a POS.
G20 is the best 10mm I know of, period, end of story. Unlike 1911, G20 was designed for the full power 10mm cartridge, the G21 was the derivative here. A lot like the Smith 10xx series, the 45xx series is the derivative of those (and massively overbuilt). FWIW, it's probably the reason the G21 can be modified so readily to 45 Super and .50GI (which we'll come back to). G29 can actually be carried but it's a bit of a brick compared to the G27 so I never carry mine. The 10xx are heavy and the design simple and dated but they work. FBI actually dropped 'em not because of women's hands but because the reliability and quality varied too much in a fleet pistol where everything needs to be the same. I can second that from experience but they are solid as tanks and if you tune one up it will work flawlessly and I don't think there is a more heavy duty 10mm that can handle loads that hot either. I sold mine, they're collectible so prices keep going up, it's by far the most expensive 3rd gen Smith and the DAO 4.25" models are rare and even more expensive. The one with the protected rear adj. sight is the one you want, those sights alone made it worth another $250 I think so if you can score one for $600ish you're doing well. Problem is mags: they're rare and VERY expensive. I got more for the mags than I did for the pistol when I sold it and in the last few years they've gone from $80 on average to as much as $150 now but $100-$110 is average. That's a lot for a damn 10 or 11rd. mag!
BUT given all that, is 10mm still what it used to be? If you're not gonna shot handloads, I'd argue it's not worth it at all, get a .40 because it's lighter and more compact with damn near the same performance. If you handload, you can get some pretty powerful loads but it seems the more 1911's chambered in 10mm, the more watered down the data got each year.
SO back to the .45 super, etc... Go look at the numbers on some of those. 230gr .45 at 1200fps beats the shit out of 200gr. .40 at 1200fps (which is a hot load btw) any day of the week. It's just a simple barrel and spring swap if I'm not mistaken. Not sure if the .50GI is worth it but half inch 325gr. Gold Dots at 650fps isn't too shabby! Bottom line is there are more powerful and reliable options with the good old Glock platform. If you've got a G21 gathering dust then have at it and just skip the 10mm I say.
I used to be all about the 10mm but mine doesn't even get used anymore.
Now you got me to thinking about listing all my 10mm shit in a bulk sale or trade.
I have one of the first Guncrafter Model 1s in 50 GI. It is neat, but useless. I only ever shoot it with the 45 barrel. Cool idea, for sure. To me, the only reason for 10mm is if you are in bear territory, and it is only OK for big bears. The Nighthawks I've seen and shot are tight enough, with supported barrels, that they can shoot hot 10mm. Still, I live in Griz country, and if I carry while hiking it is either a 9mm, because I am on a backpacking trip and worried more about other threats, or it is a 44 mag with 340 hard cast if I am really worried about bear.
That's an awesome lot of bullshit to go through. This is a 1980's flannel suited Boomer conversation.
I was gun smithing back in the 90's and 10mm beats the hell out of that platform, I saw a dozen cracked frames before they nerfed the ammo. If you plan on loading hot or using loads like Underwood I would reconsider. I was shooting my Glocks with my friends 10mm Springfield last weekend and be both think the glock is far more comfortable to shoot, he has a G20 as well.
For 10mm the Glock 20/40 with a fully supported barrel like KKM is a better package in my opinion.
For 10mm the Glock 20/40 with a fully supported barrel like KKM is a better package in my opinion.
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Have a Sig 1911 10 mm and a Glock 40 MOS10 mm. Like them both, never had any issues with either of them, but carry the Glock in the backcountry.
I bought a Kimber Camp Guard a couple of years ago because I have wanted a 10mm for a long time. It functions and shoots well with factory ammo. I have not reloaded for it yet. I was very surprised that recoil is pretty mild.
You can find 180gr ammo at less than 1000fps and over 1300fps. The original FBI 10mm load was a 170gr at over 1300fps, then they made low recoil because guns were breaking and some law enforcement struggled with the recoil.
Weak 10mm and 40 S&W is the same thing. The 40 S&W was developed because once they nerfed the ammo a small frame made more sense.
Weak 10mm and 40 S&W is the same thing. The 40 S&W was developed because once they nerfed the ammo a small frame made more sense.
Be original...BREN 10. worked for Sonny Crockett.
It’s a 1911 question but like others said get a glock 40 and run underwood Ammo.
putting 40 or 10mm in a 1911 is not what it was designed for.
we need to stop taking legacy platforms and trying to update them past their design and material limits...let them stay where they belong.
durability issues, smaller mag, usually heavier...why???
putting 40 or 10mm in a 1911 is not what it was designed for.
we need to stop taking legacy platforms and trying to update them past their design and material limits...let them stay where they belong.
durability issues, smaller mag, usually heavier...why???
When the platform is updated to the round what’s the issue?
I mean you think a AR15 platform should only be 5.56 nato?
Its not like they are using the same springs, and just reaming out the barrel till a 10mm fits in it
Id take a titanium hand assembled American made (TX actually) SVI in 10mm over a plastic shipped by the pallet Glock.
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There have been a lot of improvements in 10mm 1911s since that time. Back then, you were basically talking about a Delta Elite, and Colt was making its worst guns in history. The guys who do it well seem to have cracked the code (rather than the frame) with changes to the firing pin stop, using ramped barrels, controlling unlock and having the right spring weights.
I understand 10mm. I have or have owned the following 10mms. Sig 220, G20, Springfield XDM, S&W 1006, G40, G29... Can any 1911s fire full power 10mm?
I've got a first gen Delta Elite and It has been a great shooter for 20 years now. I did change the firing pin stop and upped the spring rate, tightened the slide to frame fit, and added a shock buffer. Never have had a problem with frame and only shoot the heavy stuff.
If you've had a Sig P220 Elite in 10mm you probably won't be as happy shooting hot 10mm loads out of anything else except some high end custom stuff.
In my opinion the Sig P220 Elite in 10mm is much nicer to shoot than any of the Glock variants and handles hot loads much better than the lower end 1911 pistols I've tried. Now if you get up to say for example the STI Perfect 10, then you are in the higher end custom class and probably can get something that is setup to shoot heavy stuff well.
I'm sorry, I didn't intend to lump the newer 1911 in with the old Delta Elites, I was trying to share history and highlight that some of what passes for 10mm ammo today is anemic.
I don't own any of the newer 1911 10mm although I've shot many of them. I trust the high end builders on reputation alone to have resolved the issues of high power loads.
My personal experience is still that the glocks once a good barrel is added is more comfortable, reliable and just as accurate.
I love my 1911's in 45ACP and don't like the Glock 21 or 41 so I'm not a Glock fanboy, I just recommend anyone considering 10mm get behind both platforms before buying if you can.
I don't own any of the newer 1911 10mm although I've shot many of them. I trust the high end builders on reputation alone to have resolved the issues of high power loads.
My personal experience is still that the glocks once a good barrel is added is more comfortable, reliable and just as accurate.
I love my 1911's in 45ACP and don't like the Glock 21 or 41 so I'm not a Glock fanboy, I just recommend anyone considering 10mm get behind both platforms before buying if you can.
As far as ar’s, for every caliber it has been “changed” to (not counting cartridges that have been designed for it) there are better alternatives out there designed for that .
there is no debate that a pure custom weapon of any style is nicer than a assembly like weapon.
but custom means it’s been filed, tweaked, specialty parts added and when it goes down it’s a return to builder.
a glock or sig goes down and you buy a part online shipped overnight.
Guaranteed function when it shows up, no returns for a harder spring.
and a minimum of 3 more rounds
To each their own, Sigs work well for me, but I just don’t shoot glocks like I do a sig or 1911/2011
Or this, if you're feeling that adventurous:
Tanfoglio Witness Hunter - EAA Corp.
Fully Adjustable Super Sight Steel Frame Single Action Straight Competition Barrel FINISH: BLUE/BLACK CAL: 10MM CAP: 14+1 BBL: 6" OAL: 10" WT: 2.88 lbs UPC: 741566110603 MSRP: $1,361
eaacorp.com
The mags are reliable and the frame is drilled for a couple of different optics mounts. Additional aftermarket support includes grips, magwell, fire control parts.
And Crockett's was a .45 as there were no 10mm blanks available.
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The 170gr load @ 1300fps you mention was the original Norma loading introduced in the early 80's for the Bren Ten.
The FBI specified load as produced by Federal( aka 10mm lite) consisted a 180gr JHP over 5.5gr Bullseye @ 950 fps.
Go Kodiak, you won’t regret it. The extra inch helps wring the best out of Longshot and other slow powders without the ear splitting boom and flash they’re known for.
I’m pushing 1475 FPS with 155s in mine with book loads. 1225 with 200s and book loads. Got up to 1275 with a 200 but the primers said back off.
I’m pushing 1475 FPS with 155s in mine with book loads. 1225 with 200s and book loads. Got up to 1275 with a 200 but the primers said back off.
(I never owned one, fondling only.)No offense intended, but from personal experience both using them, and looking at them with an engineering eye, the Witness platform is the one of the last things I’d recommend for full power 1911.Or this, if you're feeling that adventurous:
Tanfoglio Witness Hunter - EAA Corp.
Fully Adjustable Super Sight Steel Frame Single Action Straight Competition Barrel FINISH: BLUE/BLACK CAL: 10MM CAP: 14+1 BBL: 6" OAL: 10" WT: 2.88 lbs UPC: 741566110603 MSRP: $1,361
The mags are reliable and the frame is drilled for a couple of different optics mounts. Additional aftermarket support includes grips, magwell, fire control parts.
And Crockett's was a .45 as there were no 10mm blanks available.
Essentially they are a 9mm action with no improvements to beef it up for the 10mm. They feel robust, but most of the weight is in the frame; slide weight of the standard full size model is similar to a Glock 19 9mm slide. The lockup geometry is the same between their 10mm and 9mm models.
A heavier mainspring doesn’t have the effect in the Witness that it does in a 1911 to delay unlocking because the hammer pivot is much lower. The only thing you can really do to tame it is a heavier recoil spring, which doesn’t do nearly as much as most people think.
I should also point out that while the mags are reliable in 9mm, 40, and 45, I had major problems with the slide outrunning the magazines when using full power 10mm and full mags (at least in the two 10mm models I had), even with Wolff +10% and +15% springs.
I like these guns in 9mm and 45 Auto, and still have a Stock II in 9mm, but just don’t recommend them for hot 10mm loads.
As a side note to the OP I’ll echo what some of the others have said about the Glock being the way to go for a serious use 10mm. IMO the G40 is the way to go; that heavy long slide tames hot 10mm and is the way a good 10mm should be built, plus the long barrel gives a good velocity boost. Concealment and carry aside, for ability to handle hot 10mm, the G20 is really good, but the G40 is the best thing available. And the mags just plain work for either one with no drama.
I’ve settled on one primary load for mine - a 200gr cast @ 1370 fps; yes that’s warm but the Glock handles it easily. I’ve cracked the slide and frame of a 1911 with a steady diet of a milder load than that.
- sorry for such a long post.
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Drop in a flat bottom firing pin stop and heavier main spring of ~20 lb or so (not the recoil spring- keep that in the 18 lb range) and it’ll be a whole different gun. These two modifications do a lot to delay unlocking and tame the 1911 with heavy loads.
The heavier mainspring will make the trigger weight heavier though so having a quality trigger installed with good hammer/sear angles and dimensions will help a lot.
I‘m a big fan of Nighthawk and my most favorite 1911 is a Predator III but in .45 ACP. I do have a Wilson Combat CQB Tactical in 10mm with a bull barrel and it runs flawlessly. I don’t think you can go wrong with either company, they both produce high quality 1911’s and back up everything they put out. Might be 8-12 month wait times though......
One other comment - the Glock platform is the only 10mm pistol safe to fire 40 S&W in. I can explain why if anyone’s interested, but it has to do with the ability of most other pistols to ignite a round in front of the extractor.
With that said though I’m not trying to talk the OP out of a 10mm 1911; a good one is a pleasure to handle and shoot, and if you want to scratch that itch, you should do it. I just don’t have a recommendation for one that’s good to go out of the box, I’ve always tuned and modified mine to get what I want.
With that said though I’m not trying to talk the OP out of a 10mm 1911; a good one is a pleasure to handle and shoot, and if you want to scratch that itch, you should do it. I just don’t have a recommendation for one that’s good to go out of the box, I’ve always tuned and modified mine to get what I want.
I've owned a RI 1911 10mm for a couple years and you're right about the flat bottom FP stop. It makes a world of difference when shooting full power rounds.
Up until that time I had avoided 1911's in 10mm due to all the horror stories of cracked slides/frames, plus I'm not a huge 1911 fan to begin with. A good magnum revolver is more my thing, but I digress.
Anyway, I did a good bit of research on the Rock before buying one and IIRC they come standard with an 18 or 20 lb. recoil and 22lb. mainspring and will handle full power Underwood, Double Tap and Buffalo Bore, ect ammo with no problems.
Rock Island claims their 1911's have 4.5lb triggers, not sure mine is quite that light but its smooth and consistent nonetheless. It's been 100% reliable right out of the box with everything but some 200gr WFNGC handloads.
IMO, a Rock Island would be a good entry level gun for anyone wanting to get their feet wet in the 1911/10mm game.
Does this apply to the old 90's era Tanfoglio Witness full size in 10mm too?
If so I can show you one exception to that rule.
Owned a Delta Elite and a Sig 220 10mm. Full power loads in the Delta is a hand full.
The Sig is a big heavier but more bulky as well. I didn't shoot any full power is the Sig but i'm sure it would handle them better.
Consider putting a comped barrel if your going with a 1911. At least it will tame the muzzle rise. All relative on what your planning to use it for.
The Sig is a big heavier but more bulky as well. I didn't shoot any full power is the Sig but i'm sure it would handle them better.
Consider putting a comped barrel if your going with a 1911. At least it will tame the muzzle rise. All relative on what your planning to use it for.
I'm surprised nobody has sung their love for the Smith & Wesson automatics. They have a good reputation and following.
I have a 1076. They're well built to say the least.
Many complain about the weight but I see it as an advantage.
The relatively low production numbers have cat them into the collectors arena and most of us that own them tend to hang onto them for that reason, if nothing else.
Mine survived me trying to kill it several years ago with overcharged handloads that I'm certain wouldve destroyed many other makes/models.
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You can’t got wrong with a DW, they are excellent 1911’s. I have a DW TCP 45 and it has been great except the sights suck but that’s easy enough to change.
I also bought a Springfield TRP Operator 5” 10mm a few months back. I bought it knowing that their quality supposedly isn’t what it once was, but it has been great. I’ve only got 500 rounds through it, but it has functioned flawlessly even right out of the gate which isn’t always the case with new 1911’s. I wouldn’t hesitate to buy another but after getting my DW I do wish I had gotten a 10mm Specialist instead because the DW is definitely a little nicer than the SA and IMO worth the $400-$500 higher price tag. I didn’t know about it at the time though and was familiar with the TRP’s as I’ve had a couple in the past which were also great guns.
I also bought a Springfield TRP Operator 5” 10mm a few months back. I bought it knowing that their quality supposedly isn’t what it once was, but it has been great. I’ve only got 500 rounds through it, but it has functioned flawlessly even right out of the gate which isn’t always the case with new 1911’s. I wouldn’t hesitate to buy another but after getting my DW I do wish I had gotten a 10mm Specialist instead because the DW is definitely a little nicer than the SA and IMO worth the $400-$500 higher price tag. I didn’t know about it at the time though and was familiar with the TRP’s as I’ve had a couple in the past which were also great guns.
Smith & Wesson for revolvers, 1911 design for Semi automatics, at least in the competition world speed shooting back in the 90's.
Can't say I ever saw a Smith automatic in the Bowling pin comps I went to. If there was there were very few. A 1911 in 10 mm with a comped barrel was very effective.
Can't say I ever saw a Smith automatic in the Bowling pin comps I went to. If there was there were very few. A 1911 in 10 mm with a comped barrel was very effective.
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I jave seen the difference a longer barrel makes with 10mm. 6.6" glock barrel in my g20 gives 100 fps more over the stock barrrel and much less flash.
Have a 1006, except for the trigger, love it.
Sorry you can't read (I said I do like these and still have one) and that my post hurt your feelings despite saying that I didn't mean any offense. My comments had nothing to do with what I like or don't like, only what I've observed and learned over the years.
Some of y'all are way too emotionally attached to your firearm choices; your choices don't have to be your identity and you don't need to get offended when someone else disagrees with them. Especially if they have solid reasons for it.
