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Any 1911 aficionados here?
- Thread starter Jigstick
- Start date
Appreciate the clarification. I wasn't attempting to insult your intelligence by any means but since you mentioned it was your first soiree with 1911's I wanted to verify what you meant by "full length" since many of the "plastic fantastic" full sized products are closer to the Commander sized 1911's as compared to the Government models. I maintain my opinion that for the money you're looking to spend, you'd be hard pressed to beat Dan Wesson as far as fit/finish and small parts quality. Given your specification of wanting FCS- the Pointman 45 PM would check all of your boxes and as I mentioned previously but be aware that it only comes in a stainless finish. If you'd prefer a blued/black finish and don't mind it having a rail, DW has the Specialist model in what they call 'Duty Finish' (I can already hear the snickering because I said 'duty'). It's a great, long lasting finish but be aware that certain lubricants (there's that laughing again) can affect the finish making it look what is often described as "cloudy". Stick with the recommended gun oils from DW and it becomes a non-issue.
Since you're new to it, I mentioned previously about what you're looking for at that price point being options such as the slide/frame fit, reduction/absence of MIM parts along with front strap checkering options. Another divergence to be aware of that I failed to mention is the thumb safety differences (broken down very generically to the width of the 'shelf' and whether it's ambidextrous or not). You'll also want to note trigger differences, not necessarily just in the style but whether it fits into the 'long', 'medium', or 'short' category. It's probably not as much of an issue now but you'll also see straight/arched mainspring housings which will make a difference on how it points in your hand (again neither a right or wrong issue but something to look for). A perceived "big" point of contention will also be whether the 1911 is what is referred to as a Series 70 or Series 80, all you need to know there is whether there's a firing pin safety/plunger and the absence of it has a very vocal camp in believing a series 70 has a better trigger because of not including it and many manufacturers that are "series 70" use a lighter weight (usually titanium) firing pin. And the last thing off the top of my mind of differences to be aware of is whether the model you're looking at has what is called a "flared ejection port". In my personal opinion, the later doesn't do much for reliability but reloaders seem to hold the opinion that it helps keep the brass from getting banged up/deformed as much as the former option. Aficionados of the 1911 will all have strong preferences on these options but it's not necessarily a right/wrong thing as much as it's just as I said, only personal preference.
If you change your mind, some of these can be changed rather easily such as trigger style/length and mainspring housing but if you become smitten with Les Baer, as I stated earlier just be aware that they use proprietary parts (mainly in their frame) so you might have limited choices in companies offering products that are unique to Les Baer's specifications for things as common as grip panels. Not bashing them by any means because they make a fine product but they just have a rather unique build mentality to be aware of (you won't need to worry about the potential 'slingshot' concern with a 5" Government model from them).
The last thing I'll add for this response is as an option that might be up your alley is to look at the Colt CCU Government. It'll be a little bit cheaper than your top budget, but is 5" with FCS and 25LPI front strap checkering (which isn't exactly common with Colt's production line) and also gives you an extended magwell all from the factory which is kinda sweet too. I will say that this pistol has been on my radar since it's been launched and as far as I can tell at least, it's practically vaporware because I haven't been able to find it in stock after putting alerts in across multiple companies and I've even gone so far as to talk to Colt reps at the Outdoor Show here in PA for 2 years now expressing my disappointment of not being able to purchase one.
Hopefully that's all helpful to you and that I didn't bombard you with too many details. Best of luck and please let us know what you settle on, the 1911 is a great pistol for what it is and you'd be hard pressed to find a better trigger (or potential at least) elsewhere.
-LD
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My first 1911 was a Kimber and I've had it for nearly 20 years. It's also probably the last handgun I'd ever let go of. I know what the internet has to say about them, but that has not been my experience at all. It has shot over 40,000 rounds. If it fell apart tomorrow, I got my money's worth.
Yes the internet can be rather boisterous with their group think/echo chambers, I was trying to avoid injecting my personal opinions from my previous commentary but glad to hear that you've been happy with your Kimber. A well tuned 1911, regardless of manufacturer, is certainly a pleasure to shoot.
OP, listen to @FWoo45
He knows what he is talking about.
His insight helped me become the 1911 addict I am today.
Get in touch with Crazy John at CJ1911Heaven and buy yourself a Bear if you want a damn solid damn accurate 1911 to use & carry.
That being said…..if you are considering a 9mm, then get a steel framed Staccato P with red dot and do your best to keep it fed. You will shoot every round you can find like a crackhead on a pipe. They are rock solid performers and run great on rapid fire strings.
Colts hold value like no other production manufacturer for some reason. That is why I have "invested" in several that are much harder to come by. Unfortunately, the lore around their custom shop awesomeness isn't warranted. I have 5 Colt Custom Shop 1911s, and my 2017 Dan Wesson Specialist is better than 4 of them and equal to the 5th. I will qualify that by stating that the fitment of the slide to frame, safety, grip safety, trigger, magwell and a couple other places is better on my DW. The Custom Shop Colts all shoot just as well (at least the ones I've shot and not put away for another couple decades). The CCS does do a great job on their series 80 triggers (ugh) though.
I've heard that DW quality has dropped off over the past few years, but I picked up and handled two new Valors last fall and they were both put together very well. Maybe they had a low spot in QC for a couple years.
I had one Kimber. It was my first 1911. I developed a handload for it like I would a rifle. It was so freaking accurate that it hooked me for life on 1911s. Sadly, it did jam relatively frequently and I ended up selling it about 5 years after I bought it. I am content with not buying another.
I like the two TRPs I've shot. I would say that their fit is similar to the Colt Custom Shop pistols and that one would have a hard time telling them apart blindfolded (minus the obvious 20LPI frontstrap checkering).
For a pure shooter in the $2K range though...I don't think you can beat a used Baer. Mine is clunky in comparison to my WC and EB, but the target doesn't know it. Once they break in they run like a well oiled machine that was put together just right.
I've heard that DW quality has dropped off over the past few years, but I picked up and handled two new Valors last fall and they were both put together very well. Maybe they had a low spot in QC for a couple years.
I had one Kimber. It was my first 1911. I developed a handload for it like I would a rifle. It was so freaking accurate that it hooked me for life on 1911s. Sadly, it did jam relatively frequently and I ended up selling it about 5 years after I bought it. I am content with not buying another.
I like the two TRPs I've shot. I would say that their fit is similar to the Colt Custom Shop pistols and that one would have a hard time telling them apart blindfolded (minus the obvious 20LPI frontstrap checkering).
For a pure shooter in the $2K range though...I don't think you can beat a used Baer. Mine is clunky in comparison to my WC and EB, but the target doesn't know it. Once they break in they run like a well oiled machine that was put together just right.
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Adults are talking here- should you be committed to "shit posting" may I humbly direct your attention to the Bear Pit? I think you'd have a better time there regardless.
What’s your intended use for this pistol?
I saw from your OP that you also wanted front cocking serrations -OK, sure why not. Back in the day with the basic GI model FCS were not the norm but from about the mid-2000’s onwards seems like most manufacturers have been including them.
Few more questions for you:
Series 70 or Series 80? In other words, do you want one with a firing pin block or not? -personally I prefer the simpler Series 70 design.
Single sided thumb safety or ambi? -for carry, I would go single side, but for comp I like ambi. And extended, so your thumb has something to rest on.
Full length guide rod or GI guid rod? -most of mine have the FLGR, but my early 1911’s were GI. Honestly, never found any diff when shooting, but the GI is easier to take down. Some of the FLGR designs can be a PITA to take down.
Sights: fixed or adjustable? Fiber optic front or bead? -for carry I prefer a simple fixed rear sight, Heinie is my preferred with a Dawson FO front sight. For comp, Bomar adjustable rear with Dawson FO front.
Front strap checkering or none? -if you want checkering (20, 25, 30 lpi), best to have the gun come with it. It can be done later by a gunsmith but then you have to refinish the frame. That said, most of my comp guns have skate board tape on the front strap.
Railed frame or non-railed? I was into 1911’s before guns with WML became a thing. So all of mine are non-railed but if I had to do it over again I might consider a rail for the option to add a light.
My first 1911 was a Springfield GI govt model I bought in college. It ran just fine, but talk about loose slide/frame fit. It rattled in the hand, but on the other hand it never jammed. 2nd was a Colt Officers model. That one took a lot of work by a gunsmith to get it to run right.
I next got a couple early model Kimbers, both are pre-Series II meaning they don’t have a firing pin block. One is roll marked Clackamas when Kimber was still in OR (late 90’s), but second one was made in Yonkers (early 2000’s) shortly after they moved to NY. One is chambered in .40, other is .45. Fun guns, they always worked, and back then Kimber was one of the first OFM’s to offer custom features in a factory gun at a factory gun prices. I even competed with both for a while. So as far as Kimber goes, I’m a fan of their early models but don’t have any experience with their current offerings (but you read things on the internet about them…).
When I got into shooting comps in the mid-2000’s I started out using the Kimbers but quickly migrated to STI (pre-Staccato). First one was a Trojan in .45 acp. Ugly ass rollmark but it had all the other features I was looking for in a comp 1911. Then I met a local 1911 gunsmith and from then on I was having him make me guns from STI slides and frames, Kart barrels, EGW internals, Ed Brown safeties, Dawson sights, etc. For a while there I was also shooting a 2011 in .40SW, so I had him make me a 1911 in .40 since I was reloading a lot of .40 at the time, and also had him make me a couple in 9mm since there were some matches where minor PF and loading to 10 rnds was preferable to major PF and only having 8 rnds.
I agree with the above comment about quality mags. I’ve had really good luck with Tripp Cobra System mags for .40SW, Wilson ETM’s for .45acp and 9mm. I avoided flush fit mags, partly because of too much spring compression, but also because I was running magwells and you needed a little bit of an extended basepad to seat the mag.
So despite my love of the 1911 platform, the irony is now my eyes are too old to see iron sights so I’ve gone a different direction with my handguns and red dots. But now that Limited Optics is a thing, I‘ll probably send one of my 2011 9mm slides off to get milled for a red dot. I do like the 1911/2011 platform, they fit my hand really well and the ergos are like coming home.
ETA: If I was in the market right now for a 1911, I would probably be looking at Dan Wesson’s lineup. Or custom. Thing about custom is you don’t need a big name GS that charges a ton based on their shop’s name. Search around, and you can often find some small GS tucked away in the back of his one-man shop that does really good work.
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I don't give a shit if you don't like my advice. If you want stroking, pornhub is over there.
well, this is a thread about 1911’s. Nothing says boomer more than a 1911!
Happy to see that you're flexing your internet muscles. I get it- you're an internet 'tough guy' and we should all recognize it- but again- how about you let us adults continue to converse about 1911's and you can be a tough guy in the bear pit? As a bonus- no profanity would be required- you do you.
-LD
- Nov 3, 2010
- 9,699
- 20,386
My Kimber Pro Raptor II was super reliable and shot great. Granted I bought it almost 20 years ago. To bad some asshole had to steal it, I probably would have kept it for a long time.
To be clear, when Kimber originally started making 1911s, they were awesome - and not expensive. The gen1 custom shop guns are great, I still have one and it has been flawless.
Kimber did exactly what Leupold did: build brand name and loyalty, flush quality down the drain and keep the price high - it absolutely works for a while, right up to when it doesn't.
I am a 1911 aficionado but am also fully aware that it is an antiquated design and there is newer stuff I would take into combat long before any 1911. That said, Staccato (STI or SVI) are great, Wilson has slipped and is trading on name now (in my opinion), Les Baer are very good but tight tight tight, and Nighthawks run like a scalded dog.
I have built several guns on Springfield mil specs, they are good quality slides and frames and fit is usually very good. Their higher end stuff is nice, and my experience is that it competes well with more expensive stuff. My first 1911 was a Springfield 5" mil spec and I shot that gun till all the failure parts started failing, then rebuilt it with Wilson parts, and ran it till someone offered me way more than it was worth. I should not have sold that gun...
Decide if you want a shooter or an heirloom gun. If heirloom, Ted Yost or Novak would be my choice. I have the Novak, is art work - still looking for the Yost.
And all of this is a great conversation, till you start talking about Browning Hi Powers!
True. You can feel the angry pecking at jitterbug buttons through his post.
For being in my mid-40s I'll be boomer AF and love on some 1911s. I may carry striker-fired pistols, but that doesn't mean that they do anything for me aesthetically. Bill Clinton is probably more excited to climb into bed with Hillary than I am seeing pictures of the next striker-fired "gee, it looks like a Glock again" handgun.
However, current cringeworthy material from the geriatric crew at WC has me thinking that my last 1911 of theirs was just that.
However, current cringeworthy material from the geriatric crew at WC has me thinking that my last 1911 of theirs was just that.
So.. are we doing this? I've strived to bring value to whatever I posted here. If you don't have enough going on in your life that you have the time to flex your own internet muscles, I reckon that we can have an 80's era dance off if that makes you feel better? Keeping the organization of the Hide aside- the only caveat I have to add is this isn't the correct forum for you to come out of the closet, although I'm flattered that you did. Be strong and be true to your own self!
One from the grey hair crew here. No doubt that WC is trading on it's name (one crappy AR upper proved that to me) but my 1911s still function ( they are all at least 9 years old) just fine. As far as striker fired pistols, I am sure they are great but had them, sold them, hated them. The guy came here not asking for best combat pistol but what 1911, think it's been answered. My colts are nice, my DWs are great, I carry my Wilsons. My son on the other hand loves my Sig 229 legend 
Looks like this discussion is dissolving quickly…
Re: your question
While I’m no aficionado, I do own both of the guns you mentioned and various others discussed.
My 2cents:
IMO Dan Wesson (DW) is absolutely the best buy for what you get in fit/finish options and price.
Having said that the TRP lacks only in that it likely has a few MIM parts and may not be spec’d exactly like you’d like it. Additionally, I believe they are slightly less than an equivalent DW.
If you’re curious about 2011’s then I’d definitely recommend saving a little more for a Staccato. Should find P models around $2500.
Currently all of my pistols are Sig, HK, and Glocks. A mix of full size and compact. Ive carried all of them at one point or another. My HK USP pistols definitely have the highest round counts on them. I really don’t have any complaints about them, except for one particular Glock which had some FTF and FTE malfunctions.
I’ve always wanted a 1911. It’s just a pistol design that I currently don’t own. It will certainly get shot plenty. May be used in pistol courses. Be on the night stand at home. Probably won’t CCW it….but may open carry it on the farm.
I’ve always wanted a 1911. It’s just a pistol design that I currently don’t own. It will certainly get shot plenty. May be used in pistol courses. Be on the night stand at home. Probably won’t CCW it….but may open carry it on the farm.
I'm 40 years old and I love 1911s. I tried everything else there was before that and other than my J frames, my primary handguns are 1911s. I wish someone would make something in a modern design with the ergonomics of a 1911, but to date no such handgun exists so I'm going to continue shooting my 1911s. If that makes me a boomer, so be it. I have plenty of plastic guns in the safe if I absolutely must have something else, but they just sit there as I know what I prefer.
I'm glad to hear good things about Dan Wessons. Of the guns in their price range that I'm aware of on the market, they look good to me. I refrained from naming them as I don't have any personal experience with them. STI used to be my go-to suggestion at the $1200 price point before they ran the employee owners out the door, rebranded, and stopped making 1911s.
The 1911 carries better than any double stack Sig, HK, or Glock. It's flat and conceals nicely in the right holster.
I'm glad to hear good things about Dan Wessons. Of the guns in their price range that I'm aware of on the market, they look good to me. I refrained from naming them as I don't have any personal experience with them. STI used to be my go-to suggestion at the $1200 price point before they ran the employee owners out the door, rebranded, and stopped making 1911s.
The 1911 carries better than any double stack Sig, HK, or Glock. It's flat and conceals nicely in the right holster.
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The 1911 is super easy to carry based on size but the weight is an issue when compared to other CCWs. I carried the ECO pictured above and it was one of the lightest 1911s you can find w/ its aluminum officer frame and is still an easy ½+ lb. more than a plasticfantastic Glock type. For me, weight is one of the primary factors in choosing a CCW. That is one of several reasons I stopped carrying a 1911 for CCW.
I'm NOT suggesting that carrying a 1911 is a bad idea, I just preferred other options. I did find that a spare mag or two on the opposite side certainly helps with the weight issue. Much like carrying two buckets of water is easier, at least for me, than one bucket of water.
I'm NOT suggesting that carrying a 1911 is a bad idea, I just preferred other options. I did find that a spare mag or two on the opposite side certainly helps with the weight issue. Much like carrying two buckets of water is easier, at least for me, than one bucket of water.
Dude. Shut the fuck up. You are absolutely insufferable on every thread you participate in. You are not God's gift to guns. The world does not operate in your opinion. You don't like 1911's? GTFO of the 1911 thread. Simple enough? Say, Yes Sir and move the fuck out
Go lose weight somewhere.
Bullshit, this is just the type of forum popularity, presence shit that had a 90% of the members fooled into Theis's crap. Buttpirate just has the biggest mouth and abrasive personality.
2nd page, and full of random post already… this is probably the most useful information right here OP.
If you want a pistol just to have it, then just get the most aesthetic 1911 you want.
If you’re willing to spend the money, and want a top of the line 1911; Wilson combat. If you want it more classic and with decent function, try out colt. If you’re a homo, get a kimber.
If don’t have to be complicated like.
For those of you who are pro Springfield... You've probably had good Springfield pistols; they make those too. I've had one myself.
But their QC is shite. Patently and objectively. I send back more Springfields than any other 1911, by a margin. And I sell a lot of them.
Don't role the dice, get something from a better company.
But their QC is shite. Patently and objectively. I send back more Springfields than any other 1911, by a margin. And I sell a lot of them.
Don't role the dice, get something from a better company.
I've got 7 Dan Wessons. Great guns...two of them arrived as single shots, however, due to extractors. Easy fixes but aggravating considering the cost.
I also have a pair of Wilson 1911's & one of their EDC X9 pistols. I am sure they are better fitted than my DW's. They were also ordered with specs exactly like I wanted them. Can no longer do that with Dan Wesson.
I have Alchemy's & Nighthawks that are a cut above the Wilson Combats.....and a custom Colt that is better than all of my 1911's.
All that being said.....my skill with the handguns is about at my TRP's level....beyond that it is the archer not the arrow...in my case, at least.
To me, the 1911 is something more than a tool. It is a piece of American heritage, functional American art....history.
Shooting, carrying and maintaining my 1911's doesn't diminish my enjoyment of shooting and carrying my HK, Glocks and Sigs.
If it has a trigger....odds are I enjoy shooting it.
I've got a 2017 DW, and a 2014 WC. My DW is 90% the pistol that my WC is, at half the price.
But that doesn't mean that DW is as good as WC. Just as reliable? Yes. Just as good? No...but closer than their price differences would suggest.
But that doesn't mean that DW is as good as WC. Just as reliable? Yes. Just as good? No...but closer than their price differences would suggest.
All of mine are post fire....a couple are also post covid.
They lost some key folks during covid.....two that come to mind are a customer service guy & one of there key smiths who I'd been in communication with on a build being considered.....then one day...POOF...they were gone to other employers.
I don't mean to disparage DW in any way.
They simply shrunk capability at a time when many industries and companies did likewise.
Conversely, at that same time Bill Wilson's company was growing like gangbusters....new facilities, new equipment, new lines, etc.
One thing is for certain 'round my way...... I am grateful for the gats I have, because it is doubtful I'll be buying new 1911's. The prices have increased at a rate that I can't justify.
Going to keep mine maintained with fresh springs, lube and good mags and run 'em hard.
I have a DW Specialist, a "it took forever to break in but once it was, it has been fantastic" LB Premier II, and a Smith & Wesson Performance Center full-size that is probably the best bang for buck of my 1911 collection.
The LB took 700+ rounds to break in, before which it mis-fed in almost every magazine. Id say it is less refined than the others, and the bluing is pretty vs tough, but it feels the most like a solid piece of steel that happens to move back and forth where the slide and frame meet. Thumb safety is on the large side and provides a nice thumb shelf. It shoots very well. It doesn't have the 1.5" guarantee, but I wouldn't be surprised if it met that standard.
The S&W has an external extractor, which is either better, not, or doesn't matter, and a non-standard barrel bushing set up. It shoots very well.
The DW... donated its frame for a .22LR slide, so it hasn't been in .45 guise for a while. It shoots very well.
Within the space of "nothing has broken on these, and I use but don't abuse them," I don't feel like there's a huge difference in user experience between them. They all "feel" a bit different, and look a bit different, but they are all good, if not great, 1911s... heavy, great triggers, very accurate, etc etc.
I also have a range of double-stack 9s, and love them. But different creatures.
The LB took 700+ rounds to break in, before which it mis-fed in almost every magazine. Id say it is less refined than the others, and the bluing is pretty vs tough, but it feels the most like a solid piece of steel that happens to move back and forth where the slide and frame meet. Thumb safety is on the large side and provides a nice thumb shelf. It shoots very well. It doesn't have the 1.5" guarantee, but I wouldn't be surprised if it met that standard.
The S&W has an external extractor, which is either better, not, or doesn't matter, and a non-standard barrel bushing set up. It shoots very well.
The DW... donated its frame for a .22LR slide, so it hasn't been in .45 guise for a while. It shoots very well.
Within the space of "nothing has broken on these, and I use but don't abuse them," I don't feel like there's a huge difference in user experience between them. They all "feel" a bit different, and look a bit different, but they are all good, if not great, 1911s... heavy, great triggers, very accurate, etc etc.
I also have a range of double-stack 9s, and love them. But different creatures.
I don't have the money to get into high end 1911s. I will say in the past year I have acquired two 1911s, and both are Springfield Operators in 9mm and 45ACP. Both shoot fine, no major issues. At roughly $900 each, I have two guns for the price of most 1911s that are recommended in this thread. And I passed over a lot of lower priced ones at that. If I want another I will look at Tisas or Bul Armory.
Agreed. Depending on what grip you got and your hand size, check out Extreme Shooters; I have their "reduced" grips on mine and they feel really good in hand.
OP, you didn't mention how "traditional" a 1911 you wanted. All of my .45s are irons only, and on ly one is railed. Looking back, I wish more had both of those features. A 1911 with RDS, full dust cover and rail and a light is pretty bad ass, but also far removed from a basic model.
It is mighty nice having an assortment and the various holsters to go along with them.
The 1911 & 2011 set up some well for most shooters....great real estate for both hands, high grip, ride the thumb safety, easy to drive around on targets, etc, etc.
A single stacked alloy frame commander carries so dang easily, too.
