Range Report 10MM for backwoods pistol

[JALVI]

Not much of a revolver kind of guy, so I got rid of them. Been seriously contemplating a 10MM G20 for a pack sidearm.

Anybody have any firsthand experience with this round as backwoods sidearm? Ammo availability an issue?

I used to carry a SW M629 .44 Mag, just never could get used to it. Like I said, I'm not really a revolver kind of guy.

I like to fish up in some high lakes, that has a fair population of black bears, but I'm not really too worried about 4 legged critters....

 

[tigerhawk]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

A G20 will make a great pack sidearm. I have used a Colt 10mm as one for years, and the Glock holds more rounds, is lighter and is probably more durable than the Colt. Hornady's loads with the 200 grain XTP penetrate very well, even on large animals.

 

[JALVI]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

How bout ammo availability? Don't yet have dies for the Dillon.

 

[bjohnson_7]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

I just recently traded my 20SF. It shot great and I carried it alot. The round has almost as much energy as a .41 Magnum when properly loaded. Hornady and all the others download the round so really all you have is a .40 S&W with those loads. If you get one go to Midway and order the Double Taps they load them right. I shot 165's through mine.

 

[tigerhawk]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

Double Tap makes good loads for it, and so does Cor Bon. Both companies' loads are even better than Hornady's. Hornady does download the round a bit, but the 200 grain XTP still is fast enough for what you want, and penetrates deeply, so if the Hornady is ever all you can find, you will still be ok.

 

[KHOOKS]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

Yes, Ammo is harder to find for the 10mm. Just go ahead and get your dies. This way you can load up what you find works. I've got a G20C and most all store bought loads are much weaker than the weak loading of 10MM from my Speer manual. I've heard the double tap is a real 10mm loading I've got a few but have not run any of them. You may also look at a hardcast bullet in the 10MM for bigger creatures you may run across. My G20 has run flawlees over the few 100's of round I've run thru it. I think it would make a great hiking pistol.

 

[He Shoot Me]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

HH,

If you would like to try one out, just give me a holler. I've been meaning to get back out to your guys range again in the near future anyhow. Vu was asking about the Atlas V8 bipod, so I told him he could try mine. LOL, I'm running out of excuses...hahahaa!

It's a G20 and as far as power, overall pack weight, and reliability it's perfect for the woods. I'm not really sure about how hard it is to get ammo because I bought a pile of it when I bought the pistol it here in Sac. I'm guessing until you start reloading you may have to order the specific ammo you want online, or settle for what's on the shelves. (There is ammo on the shelves for it.

)

-Pat

 

[ggarrett1911]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

10mm is an excellent woods gun, you can go from downloaded 40 S&W velocities to 200+ grain hardcast projo's for tougher game. I had a G20 & still have a Dan Wesson CBOB in 10mm for daily carry with the 165 gr Doubletaps... also found Cabela's carries the new Hornady Critical Defense ammo in 10mm. Bought a couple boxes of 165's to try out. Velocity is nowhere near the DT ammo, (1225 for Hornady vs 1400-ish for DT) but I figured I'd give 'em a shot.

Doubletap is the "real" 10mm load for now as far as factory loadings. IIRC, Buffalo Bore & Cor-Bon make some pretty stout 10mm ammo as well. Then there's still the old Winchester Silvertip. You could also check with ChadTRG42 on here, he loads some 10 mil too!

 

[He Shoot Me]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ggarrett1911</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You could also check with <span style="font-weight: bold">ChadTRG42</span> on here, he loads some 10 mil too! </div></div>

Totally forgot about Chad...Duh! Ammo problem solved right there HH. He's a very cool cat to talk to if you haven't already, look him up.

-Pat

 

[penumbra]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

the 10mm is an excellent choice (just because i choose it, LOL). seriously, you would need a 6" 357 magnum wheel gun to come close to the ballistics of the 10mm Auto.

i carry my G29 loaded with 175gr SilverTips (winchester STHP) and my G21SF (!) with 200gr XTP. my loads are stout, but if you want to get your point across, that's the only way.

 

[JALVI]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

Wow. Thanks for all the info guys. I think this seals the deal on the G20. Just got lined up on dies for the Dillon too!

 

[RebelYell]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

If money isn't an issue for ammo go 10mm. I bought the colt back in 90' and love it ...just had a hard time keeping ammo stocked up. I just ordered 2000 10mm brass from Starline but doesn't come in till march. Now to get the bullets to go with the brass.

 

[ChadTRG42]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

I love my 10mm's- a G20SF and G29SF. I carry factory Win 175 silver tips. They run 1090 fps out of my G29. I also load and sell 10mm full power ammo with Nosler 150 JHP and 200 XTP. A 200 XTP would be a great critter gitter!

 

[Will Fennell]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

I've killed a lot of deer and hogs with 10mm/200grXTP. I have yet to recover a bullet( all gave complete penetration and showed excellent signs of expansion). I'm a big fan of this load.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

10mm, or .40 Cal?

They are different beasts. The 10mm has the power edge, the .40 Cal is far more popular, and hence the ammo should be more readily available.

Our local LE folks do their qualifying with .40 Cal, and that's what I suggest to folks looking for personal defense firearm.

If I still had a handgun, it would be .45ACP; some habits don't change. There's just something special about sending a 'trashcan hollowpoint' downrange.

Greg

 

[CTone03]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

I had a G20 that I unfortunately had to sell a few years back because my wife and I fell on hard times. Loved that gun, and plan on getting another after I get a G29.

The G20 was very shootable and easy on the hands. I carried Silvertips in it, and never had a hiccup.

 

[esorensen]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

I carry an H&K USP in .40 with 200 gr. wide flat meplats hardcast, and run them at an honest 1000 fps. I bet you could do 200 fps better in the 10mm. I would take a 10mm in a heartbeat.

 

[Clark]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

The 10mm cannot be handloaded as hot as the 40sw can.

The weak case head of the 10mm more than offsets the extra capacity of the 10mm longer OAL.

I have owned a Glock 20 and an after market barrel with good case support for 10 or 12 years.

The Glock design is great for open carry.
The 10mm is a poorly designed cartridge, just because the extractor groove is too deep and they made a mistake with the large Boxer primer pocket.

I own my weight in handguns, and so I have my choice of what cartridge I will be packing.

The 45acp is the answer.
No partial credit for 10mm.

 

[cwshooter]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

A good read:
http://greent.com/40Page/ammo/10/10mm-advoc.htm
"10mm Advocacy Article"
By Thomas Martens

 

[gabriellapua]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

My one and only woods pistol is a glock 20 I hand load WAY over book hot 12.6 grains of blue dot under a 180 Montana gold HP and it's a F'n HAMMER! The glock takes what ever I give it punishment wise and loves it. I literally roll around in dirt "glassing bears" then come home and put it the night stand. Only to wake up and do it again the next day. My glock has had 0 failures 0!and I've rapid fired the shit out of that dirty filthy thing. Yes I do clean it after hunts but not if I'm going out again the next day. My favorite load for human defense are nosler 135hp behind " fill the case up with blue dot" and seat the bullet. That load will turn a stomach or chest into jello.

 

[Clark]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gabriel.338lapua</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My one and only woods pistol is a glock 20 I hand load WAY over book hot 12.6 grains of blue dot under a 180 Montana gold HP and it's a F'n HAMMER! </div></div>

The Alliant load is 11 gr. You are only 15% extra powder.

I have shot 11.5 gr Blue Dot with 200 gr in 40 s&w, because that is all that will fit, and that is still a wimp load. A powder with more speed-density product is needed to get more power.

Shoot 15.5 gr 800X with 200 gr in a 40sw 1.125". That is 146% extra powder. THAT IS A HAMMER.

You can't do that 40sw load in a 10mm, because the 10mm case head is not strong enough. The 10mm gives it up at 14.2 gr 1.3".

And you want recoil?
Try hot loads in a 45acp.

The 40 has more power than the 10, and the 45 has way more than the 40.

What does it all mean?
Handloaded 10mm is wimpy compared to the 40 or 45.

 

[esorensen]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

Clark,

What is the 800X .40 200 gr. load you mentioned do for you velocity wise? I'm shooting my BTB WFN GC 200 with 7.? gr. of Longshot. I switched out the recoil spring from factory .40 to one of that made for the .45. Doesn't seem to beat the frame as much. I have tried in vain so far to hit a prairie dog @ 100 yards with this load, but the front sight is about 3-4 prairie dogs wide. Makes them tough to hit! I thought this load was a hammer.

 

[bohem]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

I don't doubt that Clark pulled off the loads in his 40, but do not take a stock 40cal pistol and try that. The load is extremely dangerous unless the pistol has been properly modified.

 

[Clark]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

I don't have any velocity data, but there is so much recoil that it is not usable. It would need a very big slide mass - recoil spring product to reduce the slide slam to tolerable. I have made a 48 pound recoil spring assembly for a Glock 19, and that is not near enough for 9mm hot loads, given the stock slide mass.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't doubt that Clark pulled off the loads in his 40, but do not take a stock 40cal pistol and try that. The load is extremely dangerous unless the pistol has been properly modified. </div></div>

Yeah, you need more case support than my 16 year old Glock 22 barrel had. So I welded it up, but most people just buy an aftermarket barrel.

 

[nashlaw]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

Never fired a 10mm, but friend used one to hunt deer. He said it hit like a hammer and dropped 'em like they were hit by lightning.

 

[Tackleberry]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

The double tap hardcast loads work great on deer and pigs. They are fast and go clean thru!

 

[ggmanning]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

I have been using a 1911 45acp for the same reasons you list. Yeah I know the mantra says you need bigger for bears and such but I am more comfortable with what I can shoot well. Double Tap as mentioned and Buffalo Bore make some very good hard cast plus P loads that will suit you well. They are just under 500ft/lbs in the acp. You may also consider the .460 Rowland conversions for autos. 1911s are what I shoot so in my hands in a stress situation that is what I can use best. No matter what you shoot you have to be able to place good bullets where they need to go.

 

[SmokeRolls]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

As others have suggested, I highly lean to the 45 acp. Wide availabilty and you can get some bone crushing hot defense loads ...........everywhere.

If you want something different, I guess you could go with 10 mm but I think that you would regret it when you were trying to feed it or later shopping for available ammo (If it's truly available in the years to come).
The 10mm has a loyal following but I don't think it can keep up with all the current hot loads and available ammo selections that the 45 acp cartridge provides. It's not that it's a bad round, it just doesn't have the support that mainsteam cartridges have...
Plus if you are dead set on getting a glock....They make those in 45 acp and they can be easily had anywhere glock is sold.
....Have fun no matter what.
.....SmokeRolls

 

[Dark Horse]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 10mm cannot be handloaded as hot as the 40sw can.

The weak case head of the 10mm more than offsets the extra capacity of the 10mm longer OAL.

I have owned a Glock 20 and an after market barrel with good case support for 10 or 12 years.

The Glock design is great for open carry.
The 10mm is a poorly designed cartridge, just because the extractor groove is too deep and they made a mistake with the large Boxer primer pocket.

I own my weight in handguns, and so I have my choice of what cartridge I will be packing.

The 45acp is the answer.
No partial credit for 10mm. </div></div>

You must be the only guy in the world able to accomplish the feat of loading a 40 S&W hotter than a 10mm.

I have been shooting Buffalo Bore 220 gr hard cast bullets at 1200 fps out of a stock barreled G20 for years without any problem whatsoever. No 40 S&W load even comes close.

45 ACP is a better woods carry than either 9mm or .40, but for a pure back-country semi, the 10mm cannot be beat, unless of course you're in to carrying Desert Eagles.

 

[Clark]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dark Horse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You must be the only guy in the world able to accomplish the feat of loading a 40 S&W hotter than a 10mm.
</div></div>

~ 10 years ago on the Glocktalk forum, before Mike McNett started Double Tap ammo, he asked me how I could get to fit 15.5 gr 800X under 200 gr in 40SW or even 14.2 gr 800X under 200 gr in 10mm. By then he has shot a bear with a 10mm and was into 800X. I explained to him that I put a pin gauge in collet bullet puller die and compress the powder, then add powder, then compress the powder, and then seat the bullet.

The secret is out.

 

[Dark Horse]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

Not sure what happened to Mike Mcnett and Double Tap because 4 years ago the chronograph pretty much matched the claimed velocity, now not so much. Every load I have tried in the last 18 months comes up 150-200 fps short.

Some have chalked it up to the 7000 ft elevation they are at and myself being down at sea level, but he hasn't moved and neither have I since the first few batches of ammo I tested so something else is off.

I have been pleased with Buffalo Bore's 10mm loads, just wish they had more of a variety.

I just don't have the time to reload or it would be a non-issue.

 

[Scottie15]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The 40 has more power than the 10, and the 45 has way more than the 40.
</div></div>

Clark, I beg to differ. Even loaded to +P pressure, the 45 ammo available from DoubleTap (160 gr Barnes Tac-XP bullet) has a mv of 1200 fps and 512 ft/lbs of KE. The 10mm loading with the same bullet comes out at 1400 fps and 675 ft/lbs. Yes, the 10mm is loaded to much higher pressures, but that is the nature of the 10mm case.

For a woods gun that you might shoot out to 100 yards, the bullet drop will be minimal w a 10mm... similar to a 357 mag. The 45's bleed velocity pretty quickly so you have to practice your holdover.

Heavy - +1 on the G20 as your hip gun in the woods. Get a couple hundred rounds of ammo and you'll be set for a while. Reloading for the 10 once you have the brass is easy and allows you to shoot a wide range of bullet weights. Longshot powder really lets you push some of those bullets faaasst.

 

[Clark]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scottie15</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The 40 has more power than the 10, and the 45 has way more than the 40.
</div></div>

Clark, I beg to differ. Even loaded to +P pressure, the 45 ammo available from DoubleTap (160 gr Barnes Tac-XP bullet) has a mv of 1200 fps and 512 ft/lbs of KE. The 10mm loading with the same bullet comes out at 1400 fps and 675 ft/lbs. Yes, the 10mm is loaded to much higher pressures, but that is the nature of the 10mm case.

For a woods gun that you might shoot out to 100 yards, the bullet drop will be minimal w a 10mm... similar to a 357 mag. The 45's bleed velocity pretty quickly so you have to practice your holdover.

Heavy - +1 on the G20 as your hip gun in the woods. Get a couple hundred rounds of ammo and you'll be set for a while. Reloading for the 10 once you have the brass is easy and allows you to shoot a wide range of bullet weights. Longshot powder really lets you push some of those bullets faaasst. </div></div>

I am talking about handloads and real limits, not factory ammo or published loads.

The 10 is great for factory or published, but poor at reality compared to the 40, and very wimpy compared to the hot rodded 45.

 

[Dark Horse]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scottie15</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The 40 has more power than the 10, and the 45 has way more than the 40.
</div></div>

Clark, I beg to differ. Even loaded to +P pressure, the 45 ammo available from DoubleTap (160 gr Barnes Tac-XP bullet) has a mv of 1200 fps and 512 ft/lbs of KE. The 10mm loading with the same bullet comes out at 1400 fps and 675 ft/lbs. Yes, the 10mm is loaded to much higher pressures, but that is the nature of the 10mm case.

For a woods gun that you might shoot out to 100 yards, the bullet drop will be minimal w a 10mm... similar to a 357 mag. The 45's bleed velocity pretty quickly so you have to practice your holdover.

Heavy - +1 on the G20 as your hip gun in the woods. Get a couple hundred rounds of ammo and you'll be set for a while. Reloading for the 10 once you have the brass is easy and allows you to shoot a wide range of bullet weights. Longshot powder really lets you push some of those bullets faaasst. </div></div>

I am talking about handloads and real limits, not factory ammo or published loads.

The 10 is great for factory or published, but poor at reality compared to the 40, and very wimpy compared to the hot rodded 45. </div></div>

But most people don't want to sacrifice the reliability to modify their 40 or 45 to handle loads like that. And aren't we now talking about 45 Super which is dimensionally the same with a thicker wall and case head? If you know of another way to handle these loads in a Glock 21 let me know.

 

[He Shoot Me]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I put a pin gauge in collet bullet puller die and compress the powder, then add powder, then compress the powder, and then seat the bullet.</div></div>

Hmmmmmmm...

-Pat

 

[KIDGLOCK]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dark Horse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You must be the only guy in the world able to accomplish the feat of loading a 40 S&W hotter than a 10mm.
</div></div>

~ 10 years ago on the Glocktalk forum, before Mike McNett started Double Tap ammo, he asked me how I could get to fit 15.5 gr 800X under 200 gr in 40SW or even 14.2 gr 800X under 200 gr in 10mm. By then he has shot a bear with a 10mm and was into 800X. I explained to him that I put a pin gauge in collet bullet puller die and compress the powder, then add powder, then compress the powder, and then seat the bullet.

The secret is out. </div></div>

LMAO , whatever .............

 

[Micah Hughes]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

love my 20 i have the 6ich barrel from Glock and it works awesome have hunted whittails with it for a few years now i ussually can orded ammo from my work for it all the time the problem is paying for it, working best so far for hunting would be the double tap 200gr. controlled expansion. It is an accurate and effective factory load

 

[JALVI]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dark Horse</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scottie15</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The 40 has more power than the 10, and the 45 has way more than the 40.
</div></div>

Clark, I beg to differ. Even loaded to +P pressure, the 45 ammo available from DoubleTap (160 gr Barnes Tac-XP bullet) has a mv of 1200 fps and 512 ft/lbs of KE. The 10mm loading with the same bullet comes out at 1400 fps and 675 ft/lbs. Yes, the 10mm is loaded to much higher pressures, but that is the nature of the 10mm case.

For a woods gun that you might shoot out to 100 yards, the bullet drop will be minimal w a 10mm... similar to a 357 mag. The 45's bleed velocity pretty quickly so you have to practice your holdover.

Heavy - +1 on the G20 as your hip gun in the woods. Get a couple hundred rounds of ammo and you'll be set for a while. Reloading for the 10 once you have the brass is easy and allows you to shoot a wide range of bullet weights. Longshot powder really lets you push some of those bullets faaasst. </div></div>

I am talking about handloads and real limits, not factory ammo or published loads.

The 10 is great for factory or published, but poor at reality compared to the 40, and very wimpy compared to the hot rodded 45. </div></div>

But most people don't want to sacrifice the reliability to modify their 40 or 45 to handle loads like that. And aren't we now talking about 45 Super which is dimensionally the same with a thicker wall and case head? If you know of another way to handle these loads in a Glock 21 let me know.</div></div>

That's exactly what I DON't want to do. The places I go have a decent population of black bears, and tweekers so it's reliability over everything. If BB or DT 200's, or a med - hot handload gets the job done RELIABLY, thats all that I'm after.

How many of you are using factory barrels with hard cast bullets? Somewhere I heard Glock factory barrels don't like lead. In the near future, I will upgrade to a KKM barrel, just curious about performance in the mean time.

 

[ggmanning]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

Polygonal rifling in HK's doesnt like lead I can attest to that(soft lead..hard cast may do fine). Are Glocks rifled similiarly?

 

[Dark Horse]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

The Glocks have polygonal rifling and yes you can shoot hard cast out of them without a problem. Have been doing it for years. Just requires a little more maintenance. It's the soft lead bullets you want to stay a way from.

 

[esorensen]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

I shoot the Beartooth 200 gr. WFN GC out of my H&K .40 as I posted earlier. The 1K fps is real, and there is maybe a 6 in. holdover @ 100 from a 50 yard zero. There is no leading in the polygonal rifled barrel. This I attribute to the gas check, lube and hard cast alloy.

The penetration of this WFN profile is nothing short of amazing. Plenty enough medicine for the black bears and lions in my neck of the woods. I'll eventually get a 10mm, but the .45 is first on the list.

 

[He Shoot Me]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Heavy Haulin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The places I go have a <span style="font-weight: bold">decent population of black bears, and <span style="text-decoration: underline">tweekers</span> </span>so it's reliability over everything.</div></div>

Brother you need to quit hunting around all the trailer parks in the Linda/Olivehurst area for a couple of good reasons. That area requires a special zone tag that will allow you the use of "bait" and for an extra $500, you can get a second "tweaker" permit that includes a few items to get your area set-up.

This kit will include the following:

Dirty hypodermic needles
Crying children
Miscellaneous trash
Pieces of copper wire and HVAC units
Some dude without a shirt
Magnifying glass (For the bugs they see)
Bag of low self esteem
Broken down vehicles of various types
And one cleverly designed Hide disguised as a place of employment.

One need only scatter these things about in or around any of these fine area's and you're almost assured a trophy. Good luck with your hunt.

-Pat

 

[JALVI]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: He_Shoot _Me</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Heavy Haulin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The places I go have a <span style="font-weight: bold">decent population of black bears, and <span style="text-decoration: underline">tweekers</span> </span>so it's reliability over everything.</div></div>

Brother you need to quit hunting around all the trailer parks in the Linda/Olivehurst area for a couple of good reasons. That area requires a special zone tag that will allow you the use of "bait" and for an extra $500, you can get a second "tweaker" permit that includes a few items to get your area set-up.

This kit will include the following:

Dirty hypodermic needles
Crying children
Miscellaneous trash
Pieces of copper wire and HVAC units
Some dude without a shirt
Magnifying glass (For the bugs they see)
Bag of low self esteem
Broken down vehicles of various types
And one cleverly designed Hide disguised as a place of employment.

One need only scatter these things about in or around any of these fine area's and you're almost assured a trophy. Good luck with your hunt.

-Pat </div></div>


Dude I bout fell over! HA! Ain't that the truth. The real spinners cookin dope in the hills have a strange hangup on batteries. I have no idea WTF they used them for out in the middle of nowhere, but we really had to make it a PITA for them ( and us... ) to steal them off our heavy equipment. Even then they found a way....

I spent almost 10 years workin in the deep parts of the Sierra Nevada mountains, and one of the things I learned is just how colorful tweekers can be.

On the G20<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">SF</span></span> you can use standard AND SF mags correct? I got an SF lined up. Fits WAY better in my hands.

Anybody rebarrel their G20? Thinkin about a KKM right out the gate. Pretty much plan on runnin DT 200's till I get up to speed on the Dillon w 10mm.

 

[300WSM]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

10mm is great just be wary of double tap's velocity claims.

 

[300WSM]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

especially out of a g29.

Get a G20.

If your using hardcasts only. ...the double tap 40sw 200gr hardcast is pretty impressive. You really need the G20 with the longer barrel to get the most out of the 10mm loadings.

Buffalo bore ammo is very impressive as well. Corbon makes a hell of a 200gr hardened bullet. Talk to pete.

 

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

Re: 10MM for backwoods pistol

Not all short frame Glocks have the ambidextrous magazine release. Only the ambi models require the ambi magazine. I have a G20C and a (non-ambi) G20SF and use the same magazines for the both.

I have a 6" Glock OEM barrel that I sometimes run. The KKM probably is a better choice if you intend running hot hand loads. KKM also is the darlin' of the GlockTalk crowd.