10th Mountain Div Sniper folley

[M25BeastShooter]

My son is in the 10th Inf Div(Mtn)and assigned to the Sniper Platoon. He recently was informed that the Division was eliminating the M24 bolt gun from the sniper teams TO&E and not adopting the M242012 .300 Win mag. They are instead going to rely entirely on the M110 SASS as the primary sniper system. They will be retaining the .50 cal M107. While the M110 is a great weapon for what its designed for its NOT the sniper's primary medium to long range system.

27 years in the Army, and it never fails to amaze me how Infantry officers think. My dealings with them has proven to me that most Inf officers are NOT warriors but rather book keepers in ACU's

 

[sinister]

Re: 10th Mountain Div Sniper folley

Leg infantry officers don't get sniper training -- even the minimum of planning in the basic or advance course.

Try doing that with basic mortars and machineguns.

No training, no familiarity, no experience -- no champion for planning, training, or using that capability in combat.

SF and Rangers use the capability both offensively and defensively, and put more rank behind the trigger (Specialists to Sergeant First Class).

 

[TheBrand]

Re: 10th Mountain Div Sniper folley

Same thing is happening with the boys in the 25th. 24's go up for sale soon I guess

 

[M25BeastShooter]

Re: 10th Mountain Div Sniper folley

I thought it was bad 25 years ago when I was in the 5th ID(M. As a Bn S2 who championed the use of Snipers as a collection asset as well a high value target neutralization tool I took over the sniper teams in my Battalion. No one really complained.....
We took them to NTC used them with the Anti-Tank weapons and put them in days prior to attacks to report on the OPFOR. Worked Great!! We had M21's but we would have loved to have M24's as the primary.

Just amazing. Oh they also got rid of the M14 EBR's in the line companies.

Where the F#!@# is the AMU and Ft. Benning Sniper committee?

 

[captrichardson]

Re: 10th Mountain Div Sniper folley

If you look at what has been going on at the Int Sniper Comp at Ft Benning over the last couple of years, the autoloaders have been ruling the roost. They finally pulled the plug on them last year and tried to "re-level" the playing field.

If you can have an autoloader that can hold sub moa why would you want to run a bolt gun?

I don't think most shooters really want the M110, the shooters who could pick were running LaRue OBRs, but I think most of them would rather run a M110 versus a M24.

Guess you could also throw the EBR into the mix!

I can appreciate that most Commands don't have a clue how to use their Snipers, it seems like things improve on a limited bases, but they ultimately back slide.

Hate to say it, but IMHO as things wind down in Iraq & Astan, things will also go south with the Sniping programs.

Best of Luck,
M Richardson

 

[kraigWY]

Re: 10th Mountain Div Sniper folley

Every one hates change I guess, I sniveled when they went from the M21 to the M24. We all have our preferences, likes and dislikes, opinions or what ever. It happens every time a rifle or pistol or anything else is phased out.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where the F#!@# is the AMU and Ft. Benning Sniper committee?</div></div>

I can't tell you about the present Sniper committee, but I know the AMU's (of the 78s) thought on the subject was it was the shooter who made the sniper, not the rifle.

That thought stuck with my and I teach it today.

 

[jimmykm21]

Re: 10th Mountain Div Sniper folley

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: captrichardson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you look at what has been going on at the Int Sniper Comp at Ft Benning over the last couple of years, the autoloaders have been ruling the roost. </div></div>

2011 USACOC
sniper competition

There were 64 guns used.

Semiautos - total of 58

Bolt guns - total of 6

 

[DP425]

Re: 10th Mountain Div Sniper folley

I would be willing to bet money this is only temporary.

We need to remember here, it isn't the BDE commander who determines the MTOE for their units. The M24's are going to be entirely pulled from service at some point in the not too distant future... it's only a matter of time before they are replaced w the XM2010. We didn't pick them up for no reason. The MTOE for sniper sections are usually pretty identical. Thus once they are modified to contain the XM2010, it's only a matter of time until they are fielded.

 

[Apothus]

Re: 10th Mountain Div Sniper folley

"Hate to say it, but IMHO as things wind down in Iraq & Astan, things will also go south with the Sniping programs."-CAPT


Isn't this what happened after WW1 and most other major military actions following? They would always stray away from sniper programs and then fall behind in proficiency. Seems like leadership isn't reading the history books and are doomed to repeat as the saying goes.

 

[Flatbush Harry]

Re: 10th Mountain Div Sniper folley

IMHO, as wars wind down, our military forgets everything it learned in the war just fought and in all earlier wars as well.

Deepest thanks to all who have served our country.

Cheers,

FH, 2Lt, USAFR (ret)

 

[Kodiak61]

Re: 10th Mountain Div Sniper folley

Agree with Flatbush Harry 100%

 

[sinister]

Re: 10th Mountain Div Sniper folley

When the Directorate for Combat Developments Small Arms Division at the Infantry School staffed the requirements document for the XM110 the AMU, SOTIC, the Sniper School, and all the divisions formally stated in writing that the XM should AUGMENT the M24.

The Picatinny contractor who sent the document forward wrote the XM was to REPLACE the bolt action on a direct 1-for-1 basis.

Once the guns were fielded many divisions (not knowing or caring) started turning in their bolt guns. USASOC and a couple of divisions told the equipment guys to pound sand.

The fallout has been the adoption of the M2010 in .300 Win Mag. USASOC has gone a step farther and SOCOM is trialing a Precision Sniper Rifle in .33 Magnum.

 

[Arbiter]

Re: 10th Mountain Div Sniper folley

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sinister</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When the Directorate for Combat Developments Small Arms Division at the Infantry School staffed the requirements document for the XM110 the AMU, SOTIC, the Sniper School, and all the divisions formally stated in writing that the XM should AUGMENT the M24.

The Picatinny contractor who sent the document forward wrote the XM was to REPLACE the bolt action on a direct 1-for-1 basis.

Once the guns were fielded many divisions (not knowing or caring) started turning in their bolt guns. USASOC and a couple of divisions told the equipment guys to pound sand.

The fallout has been the adoption of the M2010 in .300 Win Mag. USASOC has gone a step farther and SOCOM is trialing a Precision Sniper Rifle in .33 Magnum. </div></div>

It's hard to ignore the reality of Benning, though, and the clear choices being made by the shooters there. Everyone likes the legacy systems, sure...but that doesn't mean there aren't better solutions out there.

 

[sinister]

Re: 10th Mountain Div Sniper folley

Spc. Jose Pizano, Company A, 2nd Battalion, 28th Infantry Regiment, Task Force 3-66, provides over watch for the 172nd Infantry Brigade command team as they make a river crossing in the village of Marzak.

You wanna break a hard body armor plate, you'll probably want a magnum.

 

[Mike_in_FL]

Re: 10th Mountain Div Sniper folley

Forgive my ignorance in advance. Just adding, I see in the OP 1st post that the 10th is not adopting the .300WM. Are the M24s being pulled to be re-chambered to .300WM or just getting sold?

If they're being removed from the 10th's TO&E, this doesn't mean they couldn't/wouldn't be re-chambered and reissued, correct?

 

[ranger1183]

Re: 10th Mountain Div Sniper folley

I have never understood the Army mindset. If an enemy sniper is armed with a rifle chambered in 7.62x54R, what caliber should the American sniper be armed with?

A. A 5.56mm M4?
B. A .308 Winchester bolt action rifle?
C. A 7.62x51 semi-auto rifle?
D. A .300 Winchester Magnum rifle? (Not to mention the .338 Lapua Magnum)

To me, the answer is obvious. Our men and women should never find themselves in a fair fight. We should always have an insurmountable firepower advantage on our side.

But as a soldier of the '80's and '90's, I watched as the military was gutted post communism. And the same thing happened post Vietnam.

"Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it". I heard this quote throughout my career. Yet that is exactly what I experienced then. And that appears to be happening once again.

 

[RoosterShooter]

Re: 10th Mountain Div Sniper folley

I agree with you Ranger.

Being a Marine I never had to deal with the Army's intelligent decision making, or lack thereof.

However, my little brother is presently with the 5th SFG and it never ceases to amaze me with some of the decisions that his COs make.

 

[joebino55]

Re: 10th Mountain Div Sniper folley

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DP425</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would be willing to bet money this is only temporary.

We need to remember here, it isn't the BDE commander who determines the MTOE for their units. The M24's are going to be entirely pulled from service at some point in the not too distant future... it's only a matter of time before they are replaced w the XM2010. We didn't pick them up for no reason. The MTOE for sniper sections are usually pretty identical. Thus once they are modified to contain the XM2010, it's only a matter of time until they are fielded. </div></div>

This is correct. M24s were removed from our MTOE over a year ago and we just recently turned them in. Now we sit around and wait for the XM2010s...

 

[captrichardson]

Re: 10th Mountain Div Sniper folley

The XM2010s are getting out there, I am not 100% sure on the numbers in the field but I would guess that it is at least up to 300 by now, but they are seeing action.

The XM2010s are M24 upgrades, though it is funny they call it an "upgrade", considering the only thing left from the original M24 is the receiver and everything else is new.

Leave it to the idiotic Military weapon procurement system to result in the mess they currently have.

It is hard to believe with systems out there like the Barrett MRAD, DTA SRS, and the SAKO M10 that things can't be any better than what they currently are.

Keep reminding myself there is a reason why I am no longer in the military!

Best of Luck,
M Richardson

 

[fergchri]

Re: 10th Mountain Div Sniper folley

We ran into a very similar situation a while back. We were forced to give up our 24's and were told that we would just have to work with nothing but M110s and 107s. Two months before deployment we get a call to go pick up two brand new XM2010's. It was just a ridiculous breakdown in communication. I would be willing to bet that the unit in question will get its hands on some XM2010's in the near future. The switch to the 2010 is not a "one for one" because deploying units are getting priority. At least this is what I have observed. The are outstanding rifles and well worth the wait.

 

[TallShot]

Re: 10th Mountain Div Sniper folley

What's the general feedback on the XM2010's? Or the .300wm for that matter?

 

[TGagnon]

Re: 10th Mountain Div Sniper folley

The 10th mountain will have whatever sniper weapon systems they want once in country. First issue after special units is over seas retention systems. Once in country if a unit wants a system that is in inventory they get it. There is not enough yet to equip every unit over seas with the very best let alone garrison. And 10th mountain snipers have been trained on MK13 300 win mags. However they had to leave them in country upon returning to the states for next rotating unit. Units can purchase the systems same as SOCOM does. However unit leaders are not willing to invest 12000 dollars into a single rifle and have to get specialized ammo for it to train up in the states. All of which would go against already strained budgets. It is a rough system but a good commander will give them the ballistics training and once boots on ground the teams will get hands on. BUT THEY CAN GET THEM!

 

[theriddler]

Re: 10th Mountain Div Sniper folley

Before our unit got deployed they trained 9 of us on the m24. Probaby the most fun army training ive ever been to. Right before we came over the state too back the M24s and our unit had to buy M14 EBR's. (Im in the national guard).

The M24's were awesome and shot amazingly well, but for overwatch and enviroments that we would be in the m14 made sense. Hated the thing, safty sucked, trigger was terrible, could hardly clean it. But the thing shot 800+m pretty well.

In the normal army there isnt much need to shoot 1000m+. And for those companies or special squads that do shoot far beyond that will use whatever they want.

The army should invest in a new heavy caliber rifle like the .416 barret, and for the smaller "sniper" rifles they should use the .300 or the .338.

 

[Whit]

Re: 10th Mountain Div Sniper folley

My cousin is a Airborne Ranger and a Sniper, he said he uses the XM2010 and seems to really likes it. Thats what it seems like from talking to him

He is also currently in Afgan right now. He was injured 2-3 weeks ago where he lost part of a finger and wounded in his hip by a Dragunov. He is still in the fight though. We should always have more firepower then the enemy IMHO.

 

[Whit]

Re: 10th Mountain Div Sniper folley

Sinister,
What scope is that in the pic you posted?



What scope/scopes is the Army using?

 

[EricCartmann]

Re: 10th Mountain Div Sniper folley

The scope is probably this one here, a Leupold Mark4 PSR:
http://www.tactical-life.com/online/special-weapons/leupolds-new-tactical-scope/

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/750288/...7-reticle-matte

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Re: 10th Mountain Div Sniper folley

I had read somewhere that the Sniper School at Benning was running a familiarization program for non-sniper officers... mainly to show the upper-echlons how to use and deploy their snipers to best effect.

Seemed like a good idea to me. If you can show your chain of command how to use the very capable and directed asset of a sniper platoon on the battlefield, maybe the company, batallion, brigade and division level officers would have a better appreciation of the asset they had in their snipers.

Has this gone away? Did I understand the program wrong?

Also, ref. the semi-auto systems...

As an LE... I don't have any direct experience with military sniper operations. But have been to a couple of trainings and one competitions with military snipers. They are good beyond words, especially the SF guys we saw.

This may be a complete mis-conception on my part, but the semi-auto may not be as accurate as a bolt for the first shot kill. But it has some advantages in a rapid follow-up and in an ability to be used as a 'big M4' in situations where a bolt gun may be a liability.

In LE, we train for a first shot, cold bore hit, every time... in the medulla. No room for error and rarely a need for a follow-up shot. First round, cold bore accuracy is everything.

In most combat/military situation, a torso or pelvic girdle shot is as good as anything. No need for head shots or extreme accuracy until you get to extreme ranges and it's a hit/miss.

We have tried an accurized AR-10 and for our application it just wasn't quite there. But if my target were a torso, not a medulla, I'd love it. 20+ rounds on target fast... Not 1/3rd MOA like our duty rifles (Sako and Sig), but certainly @1 MOA all day long.

So not sure I see the herecy of a semi-auto for military snipers. Especially if the accuracy is there to make hits at necessary ranges.

Someone with more knowledge on the topic than me, please chime in. This is just my perceptions, not experience.

Cheers,

Sirhr

 

[RedGoat]

Re: 10th Mountain Div Sniper folley

I had the M107, M24 and M21 on my 2062 while in Afghanistan. The auto loaders shine in such extreme terrains. Shooting at a target at unknown distance at an unknown elevation and not knowing how fast the multiple cross winds are or which direction they are coming from; makes hitting your target "one shot one kill" like playing pin the tail on the donkey. In some situations it was quicker to get a rough range/elevation send a round, spot it and immediately send follow-up shots to neutralize target(s). The auto loaders make the process a little quicker and in that game the quicker the follow-up the more accurate the wind reading and less chance your target has time E&E. Also having an AR SWS with sub MOA accuracy doesn't give much up to the M24, and also negates the need to carry an M4 as a back up weapon.

Having to send follow-up shots to neutralize targets wasn't always the norm, but it was nice to have a SWS that excelled at it.

Back to the main point.... America will do what it has always done and castrate the military as the war dies down. The narrow sightedness of politicians has always led to the over cutting of military budgets has a short-term solution that creates a back lash in spending when we reactivate the war machine.


Keep your powder dry,
Goat

 

[kraigWY]

Re: 10th Mountain Div Sniper folley

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had read somewhere that the Sniper School at Benning was running a familiarization program for non-sniper officers... mainly to show the upper-echlons how to use and deploy their snipers to best effect.</div></div>

I went to the USAMU Sniper School in '78. There was a Captain from the Infantry Center that was in my class for just that reason.

I was an E-7 when I went and went to OCS later. As an officer it was easier to sell the program then an EM. I was able to get a pretty good program going for the AK NG. The RA from Ft Richardson's 172nd Inf Bde also attended my schools.

I think educating junior officers is where you'll do your best marketing.

They are the ones that will be deployed to the field, not staff officers.

 

[sinister]

Re: 10th Mountain Div Sniper folley

While Benning "Offers" a Sniper Employment Officer Course the sniper (an ORGANIC Infantry Weapon/Fighting System) is not generally taught to line infantry officers and NCOs.

That's a true pity. They have no institutional champion in the Infantry.

I attended the USAMU Sniper Course as a second lieutenant. I had eight scout-snipers in my scout platoon. I had and employed sniper-observers on all three Special Forces ODAs and the SF company I commanded; I taught foreign forces; I employed them in combat; and I taught and supported them as the USAMU Commander.

Sniping and long range shooting are true combat multipliers. They are not folklore, black magic, or voodoo, but commanders and officers will only trust and use a capability if they know it and are comfortable with it. They're familiar with the shape of the M110 ("Hey, it's a big M16 with a big ACOG"), but a bolt-action magnum puts the "Hog staring at a wristwatch" look on their faces.

Until we have to kill someone in hard body armor or far away (or both).

Grenade launchers, machineguns, tanks, Brads, TOWS, planes, choppers, arty, mortars -- but snipers are an afterthought. Like IEDs -- until they started killing scores on roads.

 

[snipe10]

Re: 10th Mountain Div Sniper folley

Great thread from you guys in the know, interesting read and good stuff

 

[Homers Brother]

Re: 10th Mountain Div Sniper folley

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M25BeastShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">27 years in the Army, and it never fails to amaze me how Infantry officers think. My dealings with them has proven to me that most Inf officers are NOT warriors but rather book keepers in ACU's </div></div>

While I'd say it's generally a good thing when the Infantry has so much combat power at their disposal, it's not a good thing when so much of its effective employment falls to the most junior leaders to plan for.

Long ago in my career, it wasn't all that uncommon to find mortar, TOW, or sometimes even the scout platoons hunkered down in assembly areas or providing CP security, rather than being up and in the "fight" (usually NTC). If you brought something specialized to the Infantry battalion (Sappers, TALO, SOF, etc.), you could almost plan on causing the S3 to have a stroke, and the S4 asking,"You need a what?"

To some degree, having Infantry Officers cross over into other Officer Advanced Courses (OACs) after Desert Storm, particularly Field Artillery and Engineer, caught many of them at not only a critical learning juncture in their career, but also a point where they would immediately afterward fall into positions where they would influence battalion-level operations as either a Company Commander or Assistant S3 (the guy who REALLY does the planning). I'll make a note here that Armor officers were even worse than Infantry officers when it came to ignoring additional resources.

I'm not sure if that practice continues today. The battlespace has become considerably more complex today though. It's not just snipers, it's UAVs, it's CA (the three-block war), it's SOF, it's IA/IP/ANA/ANP, it's allies. And still, the guy who has to put it all together and make it work just graduated from college six months ago. His boss, the guy who should be helping him out, was this guy two deployments and three years ago. If he didn't learn how to employ additional combat power, he's not going to be much help. Everyone's too busy drinking from the firehose. Oh, and don't burn any Korans!

 

[captrichardson]

Re: 10th Mountain Div Sniper folley

Likewise thanks to everyone for the feedback. You are hard pressed to get any closer to the source than Sinister.

IMHO weapons development over the last 10 years has surpassed anything that had gone on in the previous 20-30 years. Fortunately in some cases this means the troops are getting what they need, in other cases in means things are a complete cluster.

Case in point, someone finally listened to the requests from the field for a more powerful sniping round somewhere between the .308 and .50 BMG. Unfortunately with the XM2010 they choose to go with a single caliber platform and choose a round that is basically nonexistent on the battlefield.

With the M21, M24, and M110, if you ran out of Match Ammo, you could always delink some MG ammo and at least keep your rifle in the fight.

What are you going to do when you run out of .300 Win Mag ammo?

I would be curious how things have been going for the troops who are running a XM2010 in A-Stan?

If I deployed with a XM2010, I would probably kill myself from exhaustion, because I would be hoarding and trying to hump every round of ammo that I could find.

Maybe it is a non issue for the troops, but I can’t imagine having to count down your final few rounds, knowing that when they are gone that you primary rifle is a paper weight until you can resupply.

If they would have gone with a multi caliper platform, that would have not been an issue. You could deploy with a .300 or .338 setup, but then always have a .308 setup to switch out to if the situation dictates it or ammo becomes an issue.

Very sad day IMHO when civilian shooters have better options than the military!

Best of Luck and Stay Safe,
M Richardson

 

[F224]

Re: 10th Mountain Div Sniper folley

The Army continues to suffer from the biggest and best mentality.

We flew the UH-1M Gunships into the 1990's and bought Bell OH-58a Jet Rangers (from Lady Bird Johnson's company) instead of just buying a far better and cheaper upgraded and armed OH-6 for the Air Cav Scout/Gun mission.

Then the Army spent ten's of Billions on the development of the RAH-66 Comanche that was never built.

Meanwhile our allies (and Special Ops guys) bought hundreds of MH-6/AH-6 little birds with TOW's, Hellfires, Rockets and 7.62 to 30mm guns on them.

Now, almost $50 billion later, we are going cheap with either the LH-72 or the AH-6i as our scout/light attack helicopter replacement. We could have done this years ago for less than $2 Billion.

And we still continue to hope they can get something as smart and cost effective as a sniper rifle/employment doctrine right.

 

[theriddler]

Re: 10th Mountain Div Sniper folley

My basic load for carrying the m14 EBR was 60 rounds. If your using the Long range rifle for a primary and you use up your 60 rounds and your buddies that are with you have nothing left, your fucked anywa. A sniper never goes out alone. His partner will have an M4 they both with have a pistol of some sort.

We were told to set up overwatch in groups no less than 3 when we deployed.

 

[RedGoat]

Re: 10th Mountain Div Sniper folley

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Semmens</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My basic load for carrying the m14 EBR was 60 rounds. If your using the Long range rifle for a primary and you use up your 60 rounds and your buddies that are with you have nothing left, your fucked anywa. A sniper never goes out alone. His partner will have an M4 they both with have a pistol of some sort.

We were told to set up overwatch in groups no less than 3 when we deployed. </div></div>

I carried 60 rounds when I brought out the M107 and still had an M4 with me (full combat load). Carrying 60 rounds with an M14 is just lack of foresight. The beauty of the semi auto SWS is that you can forego a side arm and carry extra ammo for the SWS.

 

[RedGoat]

Re: 10th Mountain Div Sniper folley

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: captrichardson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Likewise thanks to everyone for the feedback. You are hard pressed to get any closer to the source than Sinister.

IMHO weapons development over the last 10 years has surpassed anything that had gone on in the previous 20-30 years. Fortunately in some cases this means the troops are getting what they need, in other cases in means things are a complete cluster.

Case in point, someone finally listened to the requests from the field for a more powerful sniping round somewhere between the .308 and .50 BMG. Unfortunately with the XM2010 they choose to go with a single caliber platform and choose a round that is basically nonexistent on the battlefield.

With the M21, M24, and M110, if you ran out of Match Ammo, you could always delink some MG ammo and at least keep your rifle in the fight.

What are you going to do when you run out of .300 Win Mag ammo?

I would be curious how things have been going for the troops who are running a XM2010 in A-Stan?

If I deployed with a XM2010, I would probably kill myself from exhaustion, because I would be hoarding and trying to hump every round of ammo that I could find.

Maybe it is a non issue for the troops, but I can’t imagine having to count down your final few rounds, knowing that when they are gone that you primary rifle is a paper weight until you can resupply.

If they would have gone with a multi caliper platform, that would have not been an issue. You could deploy with a .300 or .338 setup, but then always have a .308 setup to switch out to if the situation dictates it or ammo becomes an issue.

Very sad day IMHO when civilian shooters have better options than the military!

Best of Luck and Stay Safe,
M Richardson </div></div>

I would like to see the Army adopt something along the lines of the DTA SRS w/ .308 and .338 conversion kits. It would take out the pre planning of which SWS to take for the mission. More than once I found myself on an OP wishing I would have packed the 107 instead of the 24/21 because a target was out of my reach. With the SRS that wouldn't be a problem. Just slide in the other conversion kit and dirt nap for Habeeb.

Keep your powder dry,
Goat

 

[kraigWY]

Re: 10th Mountain Div Sniper folley

I understand where you guys are coming from, I've been teaching sniping and pushing sniping as a valuable tool to the ground commander for over 30 years.

Still, I was also a company commander (two different company commands) and thinking about Company Trains and logistics, some of these post make me cringe.

 

[DP425]

Re: 10th Mountain Div Sniper folley

I don't see caliber as an issue. If you could change it over to .308, what would you gain? It won't do anything the M110 can't do in .308. The whole purpose of the XM2010 is longer range engagements; if you no long have the ammunition to feed it, leave the bolt gun back on the FOB/COP and take the M110.

Of course, this is assuming the sections are not loosing M110's to gain XM2010's... I've never been a sniper in a line company so I don't know what their expected MTOE is going to be with the XM2010 thrown into the mix. But I really cannot see a reason to pull an M110 from the MTOE to replace it with an XM2010- the point is to have the weapons available that will fit the mission. Thus if the 2010 is out of ammo or too low to take out- you don't pull extended long range missions.

 

[Big_Country]

Re: 10th Mountain Div Sniper folley

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M25BeastShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My son is in the 10th Inf Div(Mtn)and assigned to the Sniper Platoon. He recently was informed that the Division was eliminating the M24 bolt gun from the sniper teams TO&E and not adopting the M242012 .300 Win mag. They are instead going to rely entirely on the M110 SASS as the primary sniper system. They will be retaining the .50 cal M107. While the M110 is a great weapon for what its designed for its NOT the sniper's primary medium to long range system.

27 years in the Army, and it never fails to amaze me how Infantry officers think. My dealings with them has proven to me that most Inf officers are NOT warriors but rather book keepers in ACU's </div></div>

I just left Drum and that's a new one on me. He couldn't be part of 4-31 unless they literally just got rid of them. I'll have to contact my old PSG and see what the hell is going on. Honestly though "I might have to dodge food after saying this" the semi-automatic's are proven much more effective for us oversee's. But that's not reeally "sniping" and it's not engaging with "true precision". No matter how you fry that egg a semi-auto is a half minute rifle at best.

Much respect,
-Sv